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(Reuters)   One in four returning Iraq vets are totally mental   (reuters.com) divider line 305
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13155 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2007 at 6:24 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-13 07:09:26 AM  
SuperCatBarf

www.lyrics.com
The PUSA?
 
2007-03-13 07:10:31 AM  
Laugh now, but that one in four will go crazy and kill that one dentist who doesn't approve of Trident gum.
 
2007-03-13 07:11:52 AM  
btw, if anybody is bored...frontline has a decent show that touches on the topic from a different angle. i don't remember stats or percentages...just people.
 
2007-03-13 07:11:52 AM  
Great assessment, heap. In the future we should torture infants, assess the tortured infants, realize the tortured infants need help, then put forth an effort. Excellent.
 
2007-03-13 07:12:34 AM  
heap: this is data that marks out 'hey, x% are being diagnosed and receiving some help when they damn well need it'.

exactly
 
2007-03-13 07:12:57 AM  
SuperCatBarf: In the future we should torture infants, assess the tortured infants, realize the tortured infants need help, then put forth an effort. Excellent.

ummmm.....huh?
 
2007-03-13 07:16:42 AM  
In the future we should torture infants, assess the tortured infants, realize the tortured infants need help, then put forth an effort. Excellent.

I guess the Special Olympics aren't holding practice today
 
2007-03-13 07:17:18 AM  
heap

Agreed. But it should be noted that my brother-in-law, who has done 2 tours in Iraq and would have had to go back for a third (god bless Mononucleosis) is currently 22 and completely crushed by chronic fatigue. The medical staff at the VA are giving him the run around, so he's paying for treatment out of pocket.
 
2007-03-13 07:17:24 AM  
My brother came back last month and we get to see him Thursday, I'll keep the sharp objects away from him. He'd always tell us nothing was going on and it was boring there. When he called to say he was back in the States, I asked what really went on. He told me some rough stories.

I had a roommate in the mid 90s that had recently returned from Gulf War 1, and within 6 months was a shut-in and a loon. We had to go our own ways.
 
2007-03-13 07:19:37 AM  
Could be skewed, my understanding is the military grades ailments then calculates % disabled. An anxiety disorder would make one "20% disabled". Their bennies go up accordingly. An anxiety disorder would be easy to fake to get the extra bennies. just sayin...
 
2007-03-13 07:20:48 AM  
"1, that war frequently sucks, and can tend to mess with people's heads. no, you don't win a cookie for pointing out that the stats are of those that went to VA hospitals. it means *you can read*. no hidden subterfuge laid aside here....you can read. yaaaaaay."

yes I do, because 85% of farkers who post in these threads don't read the article, and I was still in the early part of the thread, within the top 40 which 95% of farkers will never read past (the first time they read the thread). So I was pointing out information that other people were ignoring that is EXTREMELY relevant. if 10% of people come back and go to the VA, and 25% of those have mental issues, then 2.5% of people coming back have those issues, which is a huge difference.

Not that anyone here necessarily has the power to hire, but I'd hate to have employers believing that 1/4 of my fellow veterans have mental issues and could be unstable when the actual numbers are significantly smaller (and the mental traumas typically fade with time to produce an even lesser number of people with PTSD issues)

btw, the best thing you can do for someone who is dealing with these issues is to talk with them about it, or, if you have no chance of identifying with them, encourage them to head down to the VA, where they can find people who share experiences with them so they can come to grips with what has happened. it also doesn't hurt to let them know that they're still a good person, because many times the issues are caused when their belief system is fighting with the fact that they have killed people/seen friends die and they had to keep fighting instead of helping them, etc.
 
2007-03-13 07:21:38 AM  
So, it's the same as the general population as they are returning to then.


/War sucks kids.
//It ain't like in the movies.
 
2007-03-13 07:22:17 AM  
Join the Armed Forces. Travel to exotic, distant lands. Meet exciting and unusual people...and kill them.

/re-enlisting
//no, really
 
2007-03-13 07:23:05 AM  
"What's the matter with you?
Soldier Who Gets Slapped: Well, I... I guess I... I can't take it anymore.
Patton: What did you say?
Soldier Who Gets Slapped: It's my nerves, sir. I... I just can't stand the shelling anymore.
Patton: Your *nerves*? Well, hell, you're nothing but a God-damned coward.
[Soldier start sniveling]
Patton: Shut up!
[Slaps him, once forehanded, then backhanded on the rebound]
Patton: I'm not going to have a man sitting here *crying*! In front of these brave men who have been wounded in battle!
[Soldier snivels some more, and Patton swings a vicious forehand slap, knocking his helmet away]
Patton: *Shut up!*
[to the doctors]
Patton: Don't admit this yellow bastard. There's nothing wrong with him. I won't have a man who's just afraid to fight *stinking up this place of honor!* You will get him back up to the front.
[to soldier]
Patton: You're going back to the front, boy. You may get shot, and you may get killed, but you're going back to the fighting. Either that, or I'll stand you up before a firing squad. Why, I ought to shoot you right now, you...
[pulls his service automatic. At that, the doctors leap forward and hustle the soldier out of the tent. Patton keeps shouting at the soldier's back]
Patton: God-damned bastard! Get him out of here! Take him back to the *front! You hear me? You God-damned coward!*
[Takes deep breath]
Patton: I won't have cowards in my army."

www.pattonuncovered.com
 
2007-03-13 07:23:14 AM  
Why does mental illness hate America?
 
2007-03-13 07:23:39 AM  
"Could be skewed, my understanding is the military grades ailments then calculates % disabled. An anxiety disorder would make one "20% disabled". Their bennies go up accordingly. An anxiety disorder would be easy to fake to get the extra bennies. just sayin..."

this is also true. I know when I was getting out they told us that anyone who has any type of disability (even if it's not compensated) that is service related can get their kids free college tuition in the state of California. I wish I were able to lie about stuff, because I'd really like to be able to ensure free tuition for my kids. I don't even want the disability payments.

Oh well. I did get some scars that occasionally itch, and I guess I can get something for that...but I'd feel shiatty getting benefits for that.
 
jre
2007-03-13 07:26:06 AM  
Rumsfeld shouldn't have been fired - he should've been fired at. The callous, arrogant disregard he, Bush, and the rent-a-policy crooks infesting the halls of the White House have shown to American troops from the beginning of the war is something one would expect from a fifth column, NOT from a person entrusted with the safety of a nation.
 
2007-03-13 07:30:09 AM  
I wonder if anybody at all realizes that we as Americans come from a culture that drills in the concept that 'killing is wrong' from babyhood.

Show any random city-bred American the inside of a slaughterhouse and they will vomit. Meat comes in plastic wrap. To us Death in any form is abstract, something for video games, cop shows, and news reports about car crashes and the wars of distant lands.

As to our Troops, toss them in a couple of weeks of basic training and after the war is done kick them back into society.

I don't think they are insane, merely that a lot of them have had the scales removed from their eyes and seen that there is brutality in the world. They need to see that there is more then just what they saw in Iraq. Police have this same issue, they only see domestic violence and robberies. The suicide rate on police officers is quite high.

We need to train returned soldiers to balance their world views not whack them with 400mg of Thorazine and call them crazy.
 
2007-03-13 07:35:33 AM  
I wouldn't believe anything they say in San Fagcisco, they are insane as is.
 
2007-03-13 07:35:39 AM  
borg: "according to investigators in San Francisco".

That's where I stopped reading.


We can probably sell Des Moines to the Japanese and no one would care.
 
2007-03-13 07:41:07 AM  
heap
Read what you wrote.
 
2007-03-13 07:43:12 AM  
Evil Twin Skippy: The medical staff at the VA are giving him the run around, so he's paying for treatment out of pocket.

absolutely...it doesn't seem like the military mental health system is stellar.

thing is...it's been an eventual process to even get it to the point where mental problems are even a concern that's on the radar. i don't think it's an eventual process that will end up with the VA handling it perfectly, or anything...don't get me wrong there. that the initial screening is beginning to be instituted, as well as help and diagnosis being instituted...it's a good thing.

IAmRight: yes I do, because 85% of farkers who post in these threads don't read the article

well...again...yay, you can read. just struck me as a little goofy to act like there was faulty info. i mean...i get it if you're talking about the headline, but i don't think we've had an accurate headline on fark for at least 2 years. that's just sorta a given.


btw, the best thing you can do for someone who is dealing with these issues is to talk with them about it, or, if you have no chance of identifying with them, encourage them to head down to the VA, where they can find people who share experiences with them so they can come to grips with what has happened.

absolutely. i realize i'm probably just topically bent on this one. my best friend from age 4 on up didn't make it back for me to talk to. i don't really feel like dredging it all up, but a dear-john letter from the wife plus dealing with what he dealt with...just broke him. he dodged death in a warzone...just to end up killing himself.

again...i realize i'm probably overly bent on this topic...but any effort towards looking after the mental health of these guys wins a gold star from me. it's far from perfect, but when we take people and move them to the other side of the planet and put them under some of the most mentally stressful situations imaginable...we aren't there to talk to them. all they have is the military. i realize you're talking about after deployment, but even during active service...the military beginning to diagnose, target, and attempt helping these folks is a good thing.

i guess i really don't care if 'x% have had mental issues' means that people think veterans are crazy if the other option is downplaying it, or ignoring it...which were the previous options.
 
2007-03-13 07:43:40 AM  
So we now have the Iraq thread to go with the earlier Gen. Pace "Gay is bad" thread. Sure we will have a Walter Reed soon. Just another day on Fark. 29 yrs old so maybe I've missed the crazy mental part, sides, have an 800# I can call if I go crazy.
 
2007-03-13 07:44:50 AM  
SuperCatBarf: Read what you wrote.

i don't really need to in order to know that it has nothing to do with torturing infants.

i realize you are under the impression you've made some master stroke of analytical deduction or something, but honestly you just came off like a dim infantile troll.
 
2007-03-13 07:44:53 AM  
LOL, told ya so.
 
2007-03-13 07:46:28 AM  
heap

wow, you got out-logicked by ex-military. that's tough since they're all so retarded for joining in the first place.

el caganer

while your post makes very much sense logically upon first and second and third reads, i realized on the fourth read that it's incredibly arrogant to state that "we as Americans...'killing is wrong'"
i mean, i'm banking on it not being americans, since everyone i live with is from another country and could kill me in my sleep for my jew-gold
/or is that why i don't sleep?
//substitute "people" for "Americans" and i think you're quite right
 
2007-03-13 07:47:52 AM  
ah i forgot a third slashie
///i don't really think the mils are retarded. i'm really glad they're doing it (whatever the reason), so i don't have to.
 
2007-03-13 07:48:39 AM  
25% is still lower than San Francisco's 99.9%.
 
2007-03-13 07:48:44 AM  
Well, to pay for treatment we'd have to pay taxes, so, sorry vets, you're screwed. In fact we need to cut taxes more, that's the only way to get the money to pay for your treatment.
 
2007-03-13 07:50:08 AM  
proteus_b: wow, you got out-logicked by ex-military. that's tough since they're all so retarded for joining in the first place.

ever have one of those days where ya wonder if everybody else is reading a different thread, article, or comment than you are seeing?
 
2007-03-13 07:50:13 AM  
"absolutely. i realize i'm probably just topically bent on this one. my best friend from age 4 on up didn't make it back for me to talk to. i don't really feel like dredging it all up, but a dear-john letter from the wife plus dealing with what he dealt with...just broke him. he dodged death in a warzone...just to end up killing himself."

And biatchES, don't ditch your man while he's sitting over there trying not to die every day while trying to stay alive to get back to you. That's just farked up.

/got a "Dear John" letter in boot camp, not overseas
//yeah, suicide is too common over there
///that must also suck to be the guy who goes in to use the Port-a-John early in the morning and discover a dead body there
//that's where most of them occur
 
2007-03-13 07:51:11 AM  
About the same as returning Vietnam vets. How shocking.

/Sad, indeed.
 
2007-03-13 07:58:06 AM  
And in other news, ten out of ten people who voted for the Shrub are also totally mental and believe in sky demons.
 
2007-03-13 08:00:43 AM  
It's called karma. It's one of many concepts conservatives don't understand... like "no viable exit strategy."
 
2007-03-13 08:01:21 AM  
heap
eep, i don't mean to be the bad guy. and i see from your more recent post that your personal experience is shaping your views more strongly than mine is.
i was referring to your numbered post. and to iamright's response.
while it seems horrendous to ignore the memory of your friend, it is also horrendous to misuse statistics, as iamright was pointing out. and public policy should be decided on the basis of statistics, not anecdotes, as we are a nation of 3x10^8 people.
/i'm more heep-like than heap is, i guess.
 
2007-03-13 08:04:35 AM  
Not like they weren't mental when they signed up to go to war for a retarded despot who couldn't manage a minor league baseball team in order to xenophbically increase the profits of the industrial military complex while quenching their own bloodlust. But hell, I'm so crazy that I tolerate these assholes.
 
2007-03-13 08:04:39 AM  
and heap
whenever that happens to me there's a simple explanation. i'm in the wrong thread.
 
2007-03-13 08:05:28 AM  
Winning their hearts and minds....and losing ours...
 
2007-03-13 08:05:35 AM  
proteus_b: it is also horrendous to misuse statistics, as iamright was pointing out.

well...in terms of the headline, yah, i agree. in terms of the info presented in the article...well...the article is what lays out where the stats came from. hardly a misrepresentation.

i guess i just take fark headlines being inaccurate as a given. the goal there is teh funny, not teh accurate.
 
2007-03-13 08:05:57 AM  
Ever single person in the USA has a mental disorder. Just get the right doctor and you get anything diagnosed that way.
 
2007-03-13 08:06:27 AM  
"It's called karma. It's one of many concepts conservatives don't understand... like "no viable exit strategy.""

Sure, it's karma for people who are in the military because it's a steady job that pays reasonably well and they're not necessarily equipped to have a job that can provide the same things in the real world.

karma would be having this actually affect those who issued the orders to go to war over there, not people who are obligated to by contract.
 
2007-03-13 08:07:45 AM  
Borg,
Logic sez you're a Intel employee or a member of the bush administration. I think your just another fascist asshole, you just don't know it until you come over the hill looking for free food and we cut you down.
 
2007-03-13 08:08:00 AM  
"well...in terms of the headline, yah, i agree. in terms of the info presented in the article...well...the article is what lays out where the stats came from. hardly a misrepresentation."

I was mentioning it solely because it had not been mentioned in the thread.

Although now that i threw out random statistics about reading the article, i would like to find out what percentage of people actually read the entire article and how far, on average, people read into a thread that they've never read before.
 
2007-03-13 08:09:43 AM  
IAmRight: Although now that i threw out random statistics about reading the article, i would like to find out what percentage of people actually read the entire article and how far, on average, people read into a thread that they've never read before.

i'd hit it.

wait...what?
 
2007-03-13 08:12:15 AM  
Uh, anybody compare this to civilian rates? To get, you know, a baseline? Did anybody check these guys before they deployed to get the rate then?

Other diagnoses included anxiety disorder, depression, substance use disorder, or other behavioral or psychosocial problem.

Based on my extensive research of episodes of COPS and prime time prescription drug commercials, I'd guess a hell of a lot of Americans might qualify for one or more of these.
 
2007-03-13 08:13:47 AM  
"Not like they weren't mental when they signed up to go to war for a retarded despot who couldn't manage a minor league baseball team in order to xenophbically increase the profits of the industrial military complex while quenching their own bloodlust. But hell, I'm so crazy that I tolerate these assholes."

many people signed up before the war started, especially those who were gone. I know the war in Iraq didn't start until I was in boot camp, and since the study covers people who got out before I did, it's likely most of those enlisted either right before 9/11 or after it, while everyone was enlisting in patriotic fervor.

the vast majority of people i worked with in the Marine Corps were decent people who didn't necessarily agree with the war, but because we signed a contract, stuck to our commitment and served out our terms.

enjoy your freedom; it is only protected by those who sacrifice theirs to protect it.

(not necessarily from "terror", but if you think this country WOULDN'T be attacked shortly after getting rid of the military, you're an idiot.
 
2007-03-13 08:13:57 AM  
One in four civilians are freaking crackers too.
 
2007-03-13 08:14:07 AM  
Sensible statement: It appears that our troops aren't getting the care they need when they return home.

Lunatic response: Give'em an aspirin and they'll be fine. Support the troops!
 
2007-03-13 08:15:18 AM  
heap

yeah, i suppose you're right [about the inaccuracy of headlines]. but we're not all as smart as you. except me. but i still missed the point somehow. i blame a bad upbringing in the home. or witches.

eowunyth
whether or not that is true does not appreciably degrade the reality of mental illness. do you think the mind is a magical entity that lives in a Matrix movie or under a construction site in scotland?
and if you do know, step forward and claim the prize.
 
2007-03-13 08:16:17 AM  
I am currently teaching the poetry of Wilfred Owen to one of my classes. It is so moving to read his accounts of the shell shocked troops in WWI, and it saddens me to think that some our young men and women are destined for the same fate.

And to the idiots who "stopped reading after I saw San Francisco" perhaps you should note that its citizens have the highest level of education on average in the country. It is also consistently voted the best city in the country to raise children and highest in overall quality of life. Having lived there myself, I think that anyone would be lucky to make a life for themselves in that great city, and you are a bunch of haters who can't get over your hatred of the 'libruls' and the 'queers'.
 
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