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(Some Guy)   Study finds that many U.S.-born Hispanics don't speak English good   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 385
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3957 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Mar 2007 at 9:06 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-03-02 11:47:48 AM
soakitincider

you live in ireland or the US?

The U.S. :)

Ireland is a great place to visit, and where I will retire there possibly.

Not I. Can't stand the gun laws.

/dual citizen

/same
 
2007-03-02 11:50:49 AM
Smarshmallow: A 20th century Irishman who learned English? Jeez, someone should give you a medal!

hahahahahaha
 
2007-03-02 11:50:57 AM
www.fantasien.net
Unavailable for comment.
 
2007-03-02 12:06:38 PM
que?
 
2007-03-02 12:07:23 PM
soakitincider I think if people are worth their salt they will try to make their country better instead of fleeing to another country. It's not right to just "turn tail and run" because you don't like something; you have to make shiat better.


you obviously haven't lived in an oppressive corrupt country then...

when people are fleeing their country to go somewhere else, chances are things can't be changed.
 
2007-03-02 12:10:48 PM
My ex swam over here from Mexico at 17. When I met him at 30, he spoke perfect English. Why? Because he cared enough to learn. And with a 9th grade Mexican education.
 
2007-03-02 12:11:16 PM
2007-03-02 10:41:50 AM faberoptic

On that note, bilinguals of any ethnicity are at an advantage. International commerce with Mexico is booming, and for people who truly want to succeed, it's foolish NOT to learn Spanish, if only to communicate with the big ballers down south.


I agree with that. There's nothing wrong with being bilingual, and I think it's important to carry some of your culture with you. The problem is people who hold onto their culture so fiercely that they won't become Americans. This is sadly an issue with most Mexicans. They want the opportunity here, and are willing to risk their lives to get here, but many feel that their culture is superior and have no need for English or the trappings of American life.
 
2007-03-02 12:13:12 PM
2007-03-02 11:43:21 AM SchlingFo [TotalFark]

In a lot of places along the Texas/Mexico border, you can live your entire life speaking only Spanish. In schools, you'll have a 99% Hispanic population, and 99% of the students will speak Spanish to each other. The only English instruction/practice a lot of these kids get is in the classroom.


My white friend is from Brownsville down in the valley with absolutely no Hispanic heritage, and he's more Hispanic than I am. He definitely speaks better Spanish.
 
2007-03-02 12:15:12 PM
Eochada:
I agree with you on the gun laws, and it's a damn shame they went the way of mainland europe. owning property in the US and Ireland would be a nice compromise however. in the Connemara region I'd like to hunt some of the deer i've seen in those forests, but I doubt thats allowed. I don't agree with the public smoking ban either; i'm not a smoker but how the hell do you make smoking cigarettes or cigars illegal with drinking out in public? It should be the owner's choice.
 
2007-03-02 12:15:47 PM
/14 brothers and sisters.
 
2007-03-02 12:16:04 PM
Se Habla Ingles
 
2007-03-02 12:17:30 PM
Butterflew:
things can always be changed it just requires heart and discipline, something many people may lack. One has to rise above themselves and others to accomplish some goals.
 
2007-03-02 12:19:40 PM
Don't want to learn our language properly? Go back to mexico - you'll fit in better, you clearly have no desire to fit in here. New job for INS ...
 
2007-03-02 12:19:48 PM
Sounds like a group of people who are angry with other people who don't share the same values, customs, language, even though they live down the street.

Pretty dumb reason to be angry with someone.
Why dislike someone when you can choose not to? Why not learn about them instead?

There are worse things in the world than not being able to communicate crystal clear with people you don't need to deal with on a regular basis. If you live in the southwest, it may be helpful to learn a little bit of the language that has been in place there longer (can't expect a predominant language to go away in two centuries), might help you lead a more productive and informed life... just a suggestion.

I am a US born citizen, and I definitely don't adhere to the same culture as most of the people who commented on here. I thought the idea here was that you weren't required to? (a.k.a. personal freedom)

/Maybe I was thinking the wrong way
//or maybe all that changed in '01
///I lean toward the latter
 
2007-03-02 12:28:46 PM
Aw, here we go...

"I clearly deserve to be here more than any of these immigrants because I commited the selfless and brave task of being born here."

"I am American and I love freedom unless you don't speak English and then GTFO it's freedom to love baseball not freedom to talko stupido"
 
2007-03-02 12:29:35 PM
admiral42:
it is important to integrate people so that pockets of culture don't develop and cause friction/violence/terrorism. If you are in america, but do not like americans, it's not helping the situation any.
 
2007-03-02 12:31:19 PM
Butterflew
Being of hispanic origin myself, (I was born and raised in Puerto Rico) I can tell a sort of 'reversed' story. In school growing up I was usually made fun of by other kids because my Spanish wasn't as good as theirs. There's a saying in Spanish that when translated says something like "The children will speak the language of their mother". My mom is American, we spoke English at home, my parents had me and my brother in private English speaking schools and so on.

I'm also Puerto Rican, but I only half agree with you. I agree that it's ultimately parents that are responsible for how well their children learn English. My situation was different, though, in that I was born in Puerto Rico but raised in Oregon. My mom insisted that my brother and I only speak Spanish at home, but she also expected us to get straight A's at school.

It's really about commitment to education, no matter what the ethnic/cultural background. For example I live in Chinatown, and the children of immigrants generally speak fluent, accent-less English, yest also speak fluent Chinese at home(usually Cantonese or Fujianese) since their parents usually speak very little English.

Broadly speaking, I think that's a major difference with a lot of hispanic immigrants - it's that many come from the viewpoint that they (and their children) can earn a good living doing manual labor, so on average they don't emphasize education as much to their children.

(Not including Puerto Ricans in the discussion of hispanic "immigrants", since Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. Moving from Puerto Rico to New York is like moving from Alabama to New York.)
 
2007-03-02 12:31:29 PM
Anyone who immigrates to this country should learn the language first thats what the settlers did!!

Oh wait they didn't.
 
2007-03-02 12:34:45 PM
do puerto ricans pay american taxes?
 
2007-03-02 12:39:40 PM
What happened? Does anyone remember the good old days when parents made sure that you spoke better English thatn they did? I don't know how my parents did that with their 3rd and 6th grade education, but they did!
/Thanks Mom and Dad
 
2007-03-02 12:39:56 PM
Thats cool because we will still need people to work in fast food places and be janitors in the future. English is the language of technology, period. That is why Chinese, Russians and Indians move over to the US and do so well. They learn English, Unix, Linux, and computer science and come over here and kick butt. So if you want your kids to be janitors and maids , keep on habla-ing the Espanol and they can grow up and have their pride pay the bills.
 
2007-03-02 12:40:16 PM
Let me also point out that the article really had nothing to do with immigration. It had to do with American citizens.

However it seems a certain faction seems to be unable to believe Hispanics even if American citizens are somehow not "true" Americans.

Yes, everyone should learn English in the US but don't turn it into a racist debate or "I am more American then you because..." BS, we are all immigrants except for the Native Americans, and the only reason most of our ancestors weren't "illegals" was because in the past there was no such thing. If you got here you could be an American citizen before immigration laws. So they did as much as your relatives did in the past.

And you can find a town in the US where signs are posted in any language that exists, (Korean, German, Japanese, etc.) why blame Mexicans just because they are closer and easier for them to get here?

Immigration and language should be debated but don't be racist about it.
 
2007-03-02 12:41:58 PM
Meez: That is why Chinese, Russians and Indians move over to the US and do so well. They learn English,

You really are misinformed. I can go to LA and show you neighborhoods where everything is in Chinese and people don't speak English. I bet I could find neighborhoods the same for Indian and Russian too.
 
2007-03-02 12:43:39 PM
I live in LA, thanks for playing, what does your comment have to do with the price of tea in china? Have you been to an IT department lately? It is Russians, Chinese and Iindians, they speak perfect english and are making 6 figures.
 
2007-03-02 12:44:31 PM
i59.photobucket.com
/how do you say "Gimmie some food stamps and a welfare check, please!" in mexican?
 
2007-03-02 12:45:28 PM
PS on the Indians, not so much, you are really misinformed, I chanllenge you to find an Indian in LA who does not speak a word of English. They were an English colony for quite sometime remember? They pretty much all speak English in the major cities and areas, unless from outlying tribal areas.
 
2007-03-02 12:47:39 PM
Here is my personal view.

Although the "hispanic group" is growing rapidly, the mistake is assuming the future birthrate will remain consistent.

In all likelyhood the birthrate will drop to match that of other groups.

Increased immigration from Europe could easily offset this.

The idea of a dominant "hispanic" group is a myth as those who speak Spanish are very mixed ethnically. Many Hispanics identify themselves as white, and a few South American countries have white majorities.

Rather than a single Hispanic group, I forsee a splintering into various ethnic identities, with many Hispanics becoming assimilated into the "white" majority.

Although many speak Spanish, this is a hold over from RECENT immigration. I believe long-term trends favor the continued dominance of English. Why? Culture, for one. There is a greater social advantage to be gained from knowing English rather than Spanish, and those born and raised in the US will speak English rather than Spanish as a result of cultural influence.
 
2007-03-02 12:47:45 PM
"how do you say "Gimmie some food stamps and a welfare check, please!" in mexican?"


You need to add $500 to that, new bill in California , they want to give every child in Cali $500 regardless of immigration status.
 
2007-03-02 12:49:01 PM
Corvus: I bet I could find neighborhoods the same for Indian and Russian too.

For those neighbourhoods, go to Chicago.
And add Polish to your language list.
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2007-03-02 12:49:34 PM
FYI - There are several countries below the U.S.'s southern border that also speak Spanish and who's citizens have migrated north to find work in the States.

/Spanglish
 
2007-03-02 12:50:07 PM
Meez: I live in LA, thanks for playing, what does your comment have to do with the price of tea in china? Have you been to an IT department lately? It is Russians, Chinese and Iindians, they speak perfect english and are making 6 figures.

Well then you don't get out much. The reason you see those people are the are H1 visa workers. They have to speak English to come in and they are not American citizens!!

You saying all non-mexican immigrants learn english is a joke.

Of course if you base it on only the people with high paying jobs they are going to speak English in general.

Actually I work in IT too and we have a Korean guy who barely speaks any English.

Some Mexicans learn English, some don't, same with everyone else. But don't say they never learn and everyone else does. I can you show you many rich mexican neighborhoods and many non-mexican neighborhoods where no one speaks english.

Maybe you should go down to Little Tokyo sometime? Ever here of that? Have you ever been there?
 
2007-03-02 12:52:31 PM
Meez: Have you been to an IT department lately?

I am a software engineer so, yes I have been to one every now and then.
 
2007-03-02 12:53:04 PM
09:25:07 AM Sumpinlikedat: And if you're for closing the borders, then that's another discussion entirely, and not one for this thread.

The Hall Monitor personality type is always teh funny.

i11.tinypic.com
 
2007-03-02 12:53:07 PM
Um my point , read my post ,ok? If you want a high paying career in tech, you will need to know English well. If you want to work at burger king, keep on speaking Espanol, Comprende? thanks! I never mentioned neighborhoods, or that all Mexicans don't speak English. I was addressing the original article. And if you don't teach your kids English in tech dominant country well then they will either work for Univision or holiday inn
 
2007-03-02 12:53:29 PM
Significant Historic Dates Affecting US immigration

Naturalization Act of 1790 Stipulated that "any alien, being a free white person, may be admitted to become a citizen of the United States"

1875 Supreme Court declared that regulation of US immigration is the responsibility of the Federal Government.

1882 The Chinese Exclusion Act prohibited certain laborers from immigrating to the United States.

1885 and 1887 Alien Contract Labor laws which prohibited certain laborers from immigrating to the United States.

1891 The Federal Government assumed the task of inspecting, admitting, rejecting, and processing all immigrants seeking admission to the U.S.

1892 On January 2, a new Federal US immigration station opened on Ellis Island in New York Harbor.

1903 This Act restated the 1891 provisions concerning land borders and called for rules covering entry as well as inspection of aliens crossing the Mexican border.

1907 The US immigration Act of 1907 reorganized the states bordering Mexico (Arizona, New Mexico and a large part of Texas) into Mexican Border District to stem the flow of immigrants into the U.S.

1917 - 1924 A series of laws were enacted to further limit the number of new immigrants. These laws established the quota system and imposed passport requirements. They expanded the categories of excludable aliens and banned all Asians except Japanese.

1924 Act Reduced the number of US immigration visas and allocated them on the basis of national origin.

1940 The Alien Registration Act required all aliens (non-U.S. citizens) within the United States to register with the Government and receive an Alien Registration Receipt Card (the predecessor of the "green card").

1950 Passage of the Internal Security Act which rendered the Alien Registration Receipt Card even more valuable. Immigrants with legal status had their cards replaced with what generally became known as the "green card" (Form I-151).

1952 Act Established the modern day US immigration system. It created a quota system which imposes limits on a per-country basis. It also established the preference system that gave priority to family members and people with special skills.

1968 Act Eliminated US immigration discrimination based on race, place of birth, sex and residence. It also officially abolished restrictions on Oriental US immigration.

1976 Act Eliminated preferential treatment for residents of the Western Hemisphere.

1980 Act Established a general policy governing the admission of refugees.

1986 Act Focused on curtailing illegal US immigration. It legalized hundred of thousands of illegal immigrants. It also introduced the employer sanctions program which fines employers for hiring illegal workers. It also passed tough laws to prevent bogus marriage fraud.

1990 Act Established an annual limit for certain categories of immigrants. It was aimed at helping U.S. businesses attract skilled foreign workers; thus, it expanded the business class categories to favor persons who can make educational, professional or financial contributions. It created the Immigrant Investor Program.

USA Patriot Act 2001 : Uniting and Strengthening America by providing appropriate tools required to intercept and obstruct terrorism

Creation of the USCIS 2003 : As of March 1, 2003, the US immigration and Naturalization Service becomes part of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The department's new U.S. Citizenship and US immigration Services (USCIS) function is to handle US immigration services and benefits, including citizenship, applications for permanent residence, non-immigrant applications, asylum, and refugee services. US immigration enforcement functions are now under the Department's Border and Transportation Security Directorate, known as the Bureau of US immigration and Customs Enforcement (BICE)

2008 : Without a chip in your ass and a cornea scan on file you cannot spend any money or travel in The New North American Continent which includes Canada, what used to be called "The United States" and/or Mexico.
 
2007-03-02 12:54:25 PM
mingustech.com
 
2007-03-02 12:59:09 PM
Meez: I never mentioned neighborhoods, or that all Mexicans don't speak English.

Meez: That is why Chinese, Russians and Indians move over to the US and do so well. They learn English

You said non-mexicans do learn English.

That is just not true. Mexicans shouldn't be singled out on this issue. It just turns it into a racist issue.

I agree everyone needs to learn English. But when you say it's a Mexican issue you turn it into a racist argument.
 
2007-03-02 01:00:14 PM
2007-03-02 11:14:30 AM ArcadianRefugee [TotalFark]

Disgruntled Postal Worker: Several major dialects of English are spoken in the US.

Name them.

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/NationalMap/NationalMap.html#Heading2

I would call them accents, but not dialects. You can travel anywhere in the US and when they speak, you can understand them.
When I think of dialect, i think of places like Switzerland where high German is the official language, but it's blended with French around Geneva, blended with Italian around Lugano, stricter German In Zurich, and local variants like bandeusch in Berne.
 
2007-03-02 01:01:44 PM
I came here to say what crankychick said near the beginning of this thread.

I blame it on spanglish.
 
2007-03-02 01:01:50 PM
2007-03-02 10:47:32 AM Disgruntled Postal Worker


2007-03-02 10:44:59 AM DramaQueen
but there are many legal immigrants who don't know English well either. Why punish them by taking away those translation services?


Why encourage them to learn it.? Just provide everything in their native language.


While TFA speaks to hispanics born in the U.S., your comment speaks to a broader group so I will address that.

It gets harder to learn a language the older you get. Children have an amazing capacity to learn language, in adults, this capacity diminishes over the years.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9801/23/t_t/bilingual.brain/index.html

And while I may understand the way some people may feel about this topic, if not empathize with the manner in which they choose to express it, I try to take a positive approach to the issue. Engendering the desire to learn in someone is a lot easier if you aren't hostile.
 
2007-03-02 01:02:21 PM
12:53:29 PM donwregefark: 2008 : Without a chip in your ass and a cornea scan on file you cannot spend any money or travel in The New North American Continent which includes Canada, what used to be called "The United States" and/or Mexico.

That's for the people dumb enough to actually follow the law. Everyone else will be getting credit cards from the Bank of America, in-state tuition from US colleges, sanctuary status from increasing numbers of US cities, and, soon, amnesty. If you're trying to emigrate to the US by obeying immigration regulations, you're a fool.
 
2007-03-02 01:03:08 PM
Disgruntled Postal Worker: I would call them accents, but not dialects. You can travel anywhere in the US and when they speak, you can understand them.

Like Hawaii?
and Louisiana French is an official language too.
 
2007-03-02 01:05:43 PM
Corvus

That is just not true. Mexicans shouldn't be singled out on this issue. It just turns it into a racist issue.

I agree everyone needs to learn English. But when you say it's a Mexican issue you turn it into a racist argument.


Could you please face reality and get back to me? There is nothing racist about generalizing this issue to address Mexicans, especially considering that it is a proven fact that they are the root of the problems addressed in this article (or the majority of our immigration related issues for that matter).

You must be a member of La Raza. Are they the ones that taught you to pull the race card anytime anyone has a realistic, valid, and logical argument about our Mexican immigration problem?

/at least you agree that they should all learn English
 
2007-03-02 01:07:44 PM
Corvus: and Louisiana French is an official language too.

Sorry it's a "Legal language" and they have no official language.
 
2007-03-02 01:10:29 PM
tomlcollins: Could you please face reality and get back to me? There is nothing racist about generalizing this issue to address Mexicans,

So generalizing something to all one race does not make it a racist argument?


Thats what racist means!!! What do you think racism means? It means generalization of something to an entire race.
 
2007-03-02 01:10:56 PM
2007-03-02 01:03:08 PM Corvus [TotalFark]
Like Hawaii?
and Louisiana French is an official language too.

Didn't think of those. I guess you could include Native American languages too.
 
2007-03-02 01:12:29 PM
tomlcollins: Could you please face reality and get back to me? There is nothing racist about generalizing this issue to address Mexicans, especially considering that it is a proven fact that they are the root of the problems addressed in this article (or the majority of our immigration related issues for that matter).

Can you explain to me if this is not a racist issue why is it ok for other nationalities not to speak english but not Mexicans?
 
2007-03-02 01:15:06 PM
Option A) Learn English

Option B) Move to a Spanish speaking country

Option C) Whine and belligerently demand that an entire nation bend over backwards to cater to your special needs.

(Press 1 for English)
 
2007-03-02 01:15:20 PM
Actually, the Native Americans came over on the Alaska land bridge...so they are immigrants as well.

Someone needs to invent a new Godwin's Law to cover the use of the word Racist whenever you wanna paint an anti-illegal immigration argument as somehow a blast against every person of Hispanic descent on earth.
 
2007-03-02 01:16:31 PM
007-03-02 01:01:50 PM The_one_with_that_guy

2007-03-02 10:47:32 AM Disgruntled Postal Worker


2007-03-02 10:44:59 AM DramaQueen
but there are many legal immigrants who don't know English well either. Why punish them by taking away those translation services?
Why encourage them to learn it.? Just provide everything in their native language.


Engendering the desire to learn in someone is a lot easier if you aren't hostile.


Wasn't being hostile, just pointing out that if you provide services in another language, it does nothing to encourage them to learn english
 
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