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(Some Guy)   The ocean is turning into one giant can of 7-Up, according to this article that shoots itself in the foot by leading with the old tooth-dissolving-in-coke urban legend   (sciencenow.sciencemag.org) divider line 101
    More: Dumbass  
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9489 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2007 at 11:09 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-02-19 12:16:21 PM
GodsTumor: More like one giant can Slurm!


Grunk-a
Lunk-a
Dunkity-dacid
Slurm won't turn the ocean to acid
 
2007-02-19 12:18:31 PM
You aren't going to feed 7.6 billion people (much less 15 billion) without plentiful petroleum. So, without a new source of petroleum, the world's population is not going to double. We've probably seen our last doubling for a looooooong time. There's no way to prepare for the petroleum-starved future, and the world isn't going to end in 2012.
 
2007-02-19 12:18:55 PM
Teeth will dissolve in just about ANY liquid. Why single-out soda? Oh, that's right, because the CO2 angle can be used to segway into something that will interest the Global Warming Moonbats.
 
2007-02-19 12:19:14 PM
orlong: It all grows out of the ground or comes off an animal. If they want to note that is grown without pesticides or whatever the reason for the "organic" label is for they need to come up with a better term.


I'll bet you had a "gay old time" writing that.

The language changes. Deal with it. You sound like my 87 year old uncle.
 
2007-02-19 12:22:58 PM
www.gamerevolution.com


The Spot surfing the ocean he created.
 
2007-02-19 12:25:17 PM
Didn't they already settle the whole tooth-in-coke deal on Mythbusters? As I recall, it was busted.
 
2007-02-19 12:25:23 PM
see this is what the world is missing.

If they watched Mythbusters then they would not of been so stupid
 
2007-02-19 12:25:28 PM
It's not news that carbon dioxide poses a threat to some sea life. In recent years, researchers have shown through computer models and lab experiments that rising acidity coupled with an increase of dissolved inorganic carbon makes it harder for animals to build calcium carbonate shells and can even dissolve them


CaCO3 + H2CO3 = ?

Its been a while since chemistry but I'm not following here, how could a replacement reaction occur with these compounds? When its combined with HCl the CO3 is replaced by the Cl but... Further most of the Co2 simply dissolves and forms Co2 (aq) not HCo3 http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00459.htm
 
2007-02-19 12:31:16 PM
Have any of you "scientists" owned an aquarium? You'd know just how important it is to watch Ph levels, which is controlled by removing CO2 from the water...

I'm not sure about teeth in water, but I did submerge a piece of beef into coke for about 24 hours, and it was completely dissolved (this was 15 years ago, using coke from the first McDonalds in Russia, it could be different now...).

Can someone just try this out, instead of coming up with flaming comments?
 
2007-02-19 12:40:29 PM
I think I'll hold some coke in my mouth for as long as I can to see if my teeth will dissolve.
 
2007-02-19 12:44:28 PM
How about an article on Snopes?
 
2007-02-19 12:48:19 PM
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dateFeb 19, 2007 12:43 PM
subjectRe: The Rising Tide of Acid - Huge Error

Mr Stokstad,

This quote from a February 17 article titled "The Rising Tide of Acid" begins with:

"Drop a tooth in a can of carbonated soda, and it will dissolve. That's because the carbon dioxide that makes the beverage bubbly also makes it acidic."

Sir, have you gone completely mad?

Coca-Cola will not dissolve a tooth (or a nail, or a penny, or a piece of meat) overnight.

Coca-Cola contains acids (such as citric acid and phosphoric acid) which will eventually dissolve items such as teeth (given enough time), but so do plenty of other substances we commonly ingest (such as orange juice). The concentration of acid in these products is so low that our digestive systems are easily capable of coping with it with no harm to us.

The idea that any substance which can dissolve teeth must therefore damage our teeth if we drink it is nonsensical. We don't hold drinks in our mouths for days at a time - any liquids we drink simply wash over our teeth very briefly, and our teeth are further protected by their enamel coating and the ameliorating effects of saliva.

Vince Staten describes the legendary version of this tale:

Perhaps you've heard the story. It goes something like this: At Harvard they left a fly in a Coke overnight and the next morning, the fly had been completely dissolved. The name of the university changes and so does the item to be soaked overnight, but the result is always the same: Coke eats it. The lesson is that if it does that to a fly, just think of what it does to your stomach.

To test this theory I swatted two flies: a test fly and a control fly. I put the test fly in a cup of Coke and let it soak for twenty-four hours. I put the control fly in a cup of Roto-Rooter drain cleaner and let it soak an equal length of time.

When I returned to the Coke fly the next day, I discovered, to my surprise, the fly floating around, unscathed. The Roto-Rooter fly, on the other hand, was dissolved down to a couple of tiny fly bits. The Roto-Rooter had also eaten through the bottom of the plastic cup.

Correct your mistakes sir, do your research. If you possess no knowledge of chemistry, it is your journalistic duty to do the appropriate research before including such a horribly over-exposed urban legend as TRUTH. I await your reply, and corrections to the article.

Sincerely,
xxxxx xxxxx
 
2007-02-19 12:51:54 PM
Soda's often have phosphoric and citric acids in far greater concentrations then carbonic acid.

It would be interesting if they pull samples from all these water supplies, what their standard deviation was for the PH was. Just as a suspicion I'd think that there would be a good amount of deviation, at least far greater then .0025.

*note found the equation for my above post
 
2007-02-19 12:54:23 PM
Damn you PeeWeePangolin, i had completely forgotten that game. Now i need to petition nintendo to release it for virtual console.
 
2007-02-19 12:55:05 PM
canyoneer

Yes there is. We have the capacity to be well-prepared for a petroleum-lean future, if concerns over alternative fuels weren't confined to well-wishing scientists and research engineers banging on doors sweating for grants, or relatively paltry sums the gov't gives that looks more like a wave and a kiss to constituents than it does a serious effort.

The energy problem is more important than a lot of issues the US government gives as much as, if not more, money to. A $15 million grant to an institution somewhere is a nice start, but we need to see "b"s (I'm positive I can find one if I look, but you know what I mean), if not "t"s, if we wanna get anywhere. If the problem isn't research, it's implementation and infrastructure. We could hack it with what we know now, if we could build the massive backbone we need.

It's a hell of a move, but you said it: petroleum is the plasma in which our blood flows, and it isn't a growing stock. No matter what someone thinks of alternative fuels, there's only one thing that he can't disbelieve except due to insanity: we're running out of gas. No matter what, we need something else. The choice is either to accept it and figure it out, or strap on a cardboard sign reading "THE END IS NIGH!" and take to the street. Or go back to agrarianism, I guess. But it won't be long before everyone's using a homemade windmill to power their butter churn, and the next thing you know we're using alternative energy in our everyday lives, but just didn't manage to implement it on a large enough scale to maintain our civilization the way it was.

The question is "when?", but the answer is "soon enough". 20 or 40 years hardly matters.

It isn't even addressing the question of pollution and eco-friendliness. Even if gasoline made rainbows, flowered plants, and cleaned up genetic mishaps, it's still running out.
 
2007-02-19 12:56:07 PM
dynamite is a universal solvent.
 
2007-02-19 12:56:40 PM
To be fair TFA doesn't say anything about overnight, just that it will happen.
 
2007-02-19 01:02:24 PM
I wonder if the ocean will release it all in one big bubble like Lake Nyos. That was a great one. The pic shows the jet of water pushed up by the pipe that helps vent the carbon dioxide "safely into the air". Apparently it is not enough.

perso.orange.fr

Results of not venting below...I have spared you from the pics of what happened to the nearby village. /yuck

www.waterencyclopedia.com
 
2007-02-19 01:04:52 PM
ahknight: Napalm is a universal solveit.

Fixed that for ya.
 
2007-02-19 01:05:22 PM
Wouldn't water erode a tooth over a given period of time, anyway?
 
2007-02-19 01:05:58 PM
It's not the 'tooth-dissolving-in-coke' urban legend, it's the 'hair-dissolving-in-coke' urban legend...

1. Tell someone that their coca-cola will dissolve their hair. Naturally, they won't believe you, so you have to demonstrate.
2. spill out a little bit of soda on the table/desk/bar
3. pluck a hair from their head, or ask them to
4. drop the hair in the soda on the table
5. tell them they have to get really close to see the dissolving action
6. when their face is 6-8 inches from the spilt soda, slap the puddle so it sprays their face.
 
2007-02-19 01:14:47 PM
bnoogie

Acid Bath anyone? Sam Francisco does not approve!

"No - no, I am not calling you 'Sam Francisco'. How about 'George'?" - Sykes (James Caan)

GREAT flick!
 
2007-02-19 01:22:49 PM
It's the Un-ocean

/the un-cola
 
2007-02-19 01:36:50 PM
A really really salty 7-up.
 
2007-02-19 01:40:52 PM
UontaG: Results of not venting

I remember seeing a special on one of the geek channels about the phenomenon and thinking, "Wow, when God wants you deadm he really does have quite the array of tricks up his sleeve."
 
2007-02-19 01:45:11 PM
If the "Cult of Global Warming" says the world's oceans are turning into 7-Up...

...then tomorrow they will tell us that the world is flat.

/I remain skeptical
 
2007-02-19 01:50:12 PM
JericoPaladin

No combination of all the "alternatives" will power the global industrial civilization at the current level of activity, much less guarantee the open-ended economic growth that is the arithmetical underpinning of capitalism. Unless something as yet unknown comes along, some sort of economic/population crash is inevitable.

Since we can foresee this, and the peak of global oil production (among other things) looks to be upon us, I'd say the time remaining to arrange for a soft landing is quite short, and almost literally nothing is being done.

In fact, I believe the characteristic mass behavior of Homo sapiens precludes any meaningful work to mitigate the consequences. There really is no way to prepare, because humans as a species are literally incapable of preparing in a rational way. Just as the rise of industrialism was chaotic and organic, so will the decline of industrialism be chaotic and organic.
 
2007-02-19 02:04:49 PM
ThematicDevice

CaCO3 + H2CO3 = ?

Its been a while since chemistry but I'm not following here, how could a replacement reaction occur with these compounds? When its combined with HCl the CO3 is replaced by the Cl but... Further most of the Co2 simply dissolves and forms Co2 (aq) not HCo3 http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00459.htm


It forms calcium bicarbonate, which is water soluble.

CaCO3(s) + H2CO3(aq) => Ca(HCO3)2 (aq)
 
2007-02-19 02:08:51 PM
ThematicDevice

Oh, and it doesn't matter that the equilibrium point for CO2 and H2CO3 is towards the CO2 side -- they exist in equilibrium, so as H2CO3 is removed by forming calcium bicarbonate, more CO2 will become H2CO3. As long as there is dissolved CO2 there will be H2CO3.
 
2007-02-19 03:22:57 PM
SOMEBODY PANIC!
 
2007-02-19 03:31:17 PM
andrethered1: SOMEBODY PANIC!

i am like freaking out
 
2007-02-19 03:43:09 PM
It would be OK if it were turing into BRAWNDO!

/it's got electrolytes
 
2007-02-19 03:45:47 PM
I did the whole "dissolving tooth" experiment like 16 or seventeen years ago in grade school. Coke started to eat away at the tooth, yes, but not as quickly as milk did!

/My mom was a crazy ol' bat who kept all my baby teeth.
//I didn't win jackshiat for that experiment.
/// slashies!!!
 
2007-02-19 03:46:34 PM
chimp_ninja: What's with the "so-called"? That's what the name of the technique is, and it's not a new term. You don't see police saying "The victim was identified by his so-called fingerprints."

Indeed, you maded me LOL'd.
 
2007-02-19 03:55:51 PM
Damn, late to the party.

The definition of organic's been dealt with...so has the equation for carbon dioxide dissolving in water...ah, nobody's explained how acid dissolves your teeth.

Ca2PO4OH 2Ca(2+) + PO4(3-) + HO(-)

Numbers in parentheses are charges - it's not standard notation, but it'll have to do without superscripts and subscripts.

That's the compound that makes up tooth enamel (hydroxyapatite). It exists in equilibrium - that it, there's always a small amount of ions in your mouth as a result of the enamel dissociating. Given enough time and swallowing, they'd eventually dissolve on their on. This is why you need to consume calcium - it pushes the equilibrium back the other way and reduces the amount of dissociation (Le Chatelier's Principle).

Now...by this same principle, anything that removes one of those ions will increase the amount of dissociation. Acid such as phosphoric acid will react with the hydroxide (-OH) to form water which will shift the equilibrium towards dissociation.

Clear?
 
2007-02-19 03:58:11 PM
No problem, just pour in some Seagram's 7 and have a 7-n-7-of-The-7-Seas.
 
2007-02-19 04:17:24 PM
avery: Coca-Cola will not dissolve a tooth (or a nail, or a penny, or a piece of meat) overnight.

Well lucky he never claimed it happened overnight then.

Just for kicks: Safety data for phosphoric acid

i146.photobucket.comi146.photobucket.com
 
2007-02-19 04:34:49 PM
submitter is teh dumb.

Drop a tooth in a can of carbonated soda, and it will dissolve.

this statement is completely correct. It makes no reference to how long it will take. In truth, after about three days the tooth will already be spongy and rubbery.
 
2007-02-19 04:40:31 PM
>avery: "Drop a tooth in a can of carbonated soda, and it will dissolve. That's because the carbon dioxide that makes the beverage bubbly also makes it acidic."

This statement is 100% correct and your smug email makes you look like the dumb ass you are.
 
2007-02-19 05:52:02 PM
Ian Finnerty Has anyone noticed that it's hard to find 7up anymore?

They changed the flavor slightly, the dumbasses. I don't really care myself, but 7UP used to be the #1 drink mixer, in the US at least since we don't like tonic water. When they changed the flavor, marketing took over and now people drink shiat mixed iwth red bull.
 
2007-02-19 05:57:43 PM
dbaggins This statement is 100% correct and your smug email makes you look like the dumb ass you are.

I guess you missed the "overnight" word in his email. Yeah, I know it's not in the article. The point is, the article as written is hopelessly trite at the very beginning. Why not say a week in orange juice? Why not say a penny? It's just playing to a stupid base fear that was debunked in the 1950s. It's extremely embarrassing (or should be) to do that when your audience is almost 100% college educated in science.

As written, the piece looks fine for something in New Scientist or the NYT Science pages or some other lame rag. Not Science. Science is normally very well written.
 
2007-02-19 06:02:54 PM
Bacontastesgood: I guess you missed the "overnight" word in his email. Yeah, I know it's not in the article

it's not in the article, because the writer most likely understands this. To assume the writer meant that is just stupid.

the web articles for Science are always reformulated to appeal to a broader audience than the hard copy. some of the sentence structure is a bit weak, but nothing justifying the moronic email that avery crafted and needed to show off in a fark thread.

not something to be proud of.
 
2007-02-19 06:07:29 PM
Bacontastesgood: Why not say a week in orange juice?

the reason to use Coca-cola as the example is because it is acidic for the same reason as the oceans are acidic: Dissolved CO2. That's not the same as the source of acidity in orange juice.

the reason the tooth is relevant is because the tooth softens and dissolves in a manner similar to that of shelled ocean creatures. Dissolving a nail does not communicate the danger to sea creatures.
 
2007-02-19 06:41:11 PM
avery is now decreed King Dumbass of this thread.
 
2007-02-19 07:01:24 PM
I dropped a tooth in coke and it dissolved. Why is it an urban legend?
 
2007-02-19 07:10:39 PM
I seriously doubt CO2 is the cause of their pH findings. The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is extremely low (0.0383%) even with the fossil fuel burning. The partial pressure of CO2 exerted on water isn't enough to dissolve that much more CO2 to make a significant impact on pH.
 
2007-02-19 08:25:02 PM
dbaggins

the reason to use Coca-cola as the example is because it is acidic for the same reason as the oceans are acidic

The oceans are not acidic.

To assume the writer meant that is just stupid.

He referenced something we've all heard of, and is probably still tossed out there by health freaks and primary school teachers who don't know better. Given where he's writing, it was silly and lazy, and he won a fark dumbass thread as a result.
 
2007-02-19 08:54:05 PM
Bacontastesgood: The oceans are not acidic.

fine, becoming MORE acidic. yes, the pH is higher than 7, therefore not defined as an acid. The acid in this case is still carbonic acid, just like in Coca-cola

CO2 + H2O H+ + HCO3-

the wiki page on this is mostly accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

He referenced something we've all heard of, and is probably still tossed out there by health freaks and primary school teachers who don't know better. Given where he's writing, it was silly and lazy, and he won a fark dumbass thread as a result.

that's your opinion. Maybe there is some laziness involved here. I see it as an attempt to show that acid environments are bad for calcium structures. enamel is 97% calcium, and it is calcifying organisms in the ocean that are already showing negative impacts in the ocean. both calcifying organisms and teeth are impacted by carbonic acid the same way.

the deception here is more that calcium structures are very prone to decalcification in the presence of carbonic acid, not so much that the entire tooth will rapidly dissolve.
 
2007-02-19 11:08:39 PM
Enamel is a calcium phosphate/hydroxide mineral, not a carbonate like the sea creatures in question make. It's certainly not "97% calcium". Coke also has a significant amount of phosphoric acid in it. There are many other differences and variables, like the presence of acid-producing microbes. These things are not related, and it is silly to compare them.

Bringing up the tooth/soda thing in this context is almost like mentioning that Mikey died of pop rocks and then going on to talk about sleep apnea. It's not only irrelevant, it's very misleading to begin with.
 
2007-02-19 11:25:18 PM
Bacontastesgood: Enamel is a calcium phosphate/hydroxide mineral, not a carbonate like the sea creatures in question make. It's certainly not "97% calcium". Coke also has a significant amount of phosphoric acid in it. There are many other differences and variables, like the presence of acid-producing microbes. These things are not related, and it is silly to compare them.

demineralization is demineralization. the analogy is fine.
acid + calcium salt minerals = bad. bad for teeth, bad for calcifying aqautic life.
 
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