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(St. Petersburg Times)   Hillary can't win? Don't kid yourself   (sptimes.com ) divider line
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32764 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Feb 2007 at 9:21 AM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-02-18 03:06:24 PM  
DrBenway: Maybe Spaztictacular would like to comment?

Ah, they already did!
 
2007-02-18 03:06:55 PM  
BrotherAlpha:
Furthermore, I understand that companies posting record profits should pay more taxes than previously, not less.
It's simple math.


FriarTuck:
You are right, it is simple math. They have a tax rate.
I believe that companies should pay the same tax rate and their rate should not go up if they make more profits.


Rates will have to go up, because Bush raised the debt by $4 trillion. However, Bush wants to CUT THEIR TAXES.

Got it?
 
2007-02-18 03:08:23 PM  
2007-02-18 02:34:02 PM Rovian: This is really the stupidest thing I've heard in my airspace all day long.

2007-02-18 02:53:55 PM GoldSpider: Marriage isn't a rights issue, it's a definition issue. I can call an orange an apple. However that doesn't make it an apple, and it also doesn't mean that the orange's rights are being violated.

Rovian We may have a new winner, here.
 
2007-02-18 03:08:48 PM  
She will win. Been saying this for several years that this is the year. Give her a chance.
 
2007-02-18 03:09:59 PM  
Animatronik:
For example, I pay a 'progressive' school tax even though my kid does not attend or benefit in anyway from public schools.

You. Are. Wrong.

You benefit from an educated population even if your kids are not part of it. You benefit from a strong police force even if you never have to call them to your house. You benefit from a strong army even if you are not currently at war. You benefit from affordable health care even if you are healthy.
 
2007-02-18 03:10:18 PM  
Spaztictacular: No, I never said that. I just think it'll be nice to get out of the W.A.S.P. mentality for our top elected officials that has left the US, a bastion of civil rights and freedoms, lagging in terms of electing a minority to their top office. When you get surpassed by, of all countries, Germany in that field, that's pretty embarassing.

I'm so confused, we're suppose to overcome racism by choosing who we elect based on skin color?

How about after that we go stamp out violence through a campaign of floggings?

Who honestly cares if we ever have a minority in a high office as long as whoever it is does a good job?
 
2007-02-18 03:10:26 PM  
7-02-18 01:52:16 PM BrotherAlpha
For example, I pay a 'progressive' school tax even though my kid does not attend or benefit in anyway from public schools. So someone paying less than half the taxes I do can have 7 kids in school where I have none and never will.

Having educated neighbors with job skills is a benefit unseen by you.
 
2007-02-18 03:12:04 PM  
Are people really as selfish and dense as alpha? ffs how do you people get on the internets?
 
2007-02-18 03:12:28 PM  
BrotherAlpha: You benefit from an educated population even if your kids are not part of it. You benefit from a strong police force even if you never have to call them to your house. You benefit from a strong army even if you are not currently at war. You benefit from affordable health care even if you are healthy.

How do I benefit from other people's kids getting educated off my buck?

And don't give me any of that "If they weren't they'd commit crime" junk. If they commit a crime, I'm sure a bullet would solve that fine. The government (specifically the feds) have no business being in the education business or the wealth redistribution business.
 
2007-02-18 03:14:22 PM  
Im not sure that was meant for alpha... sorry.
 
2007-02-18 03:17:25 PM  
Kiribub: Thanks for the support.


No sweat. Vet_Curm's been covering my butt off-and-on, so I'm just doing my part. Besides, with a lot of these opposing-opinion posters, it's almost like playing T-ball.
 
2007-02-18 03:19:06 PM  
I'm VERY excited about the possibility of Hillary winning...if for no other reason than the sheer entertainment value of watching the ENTIRE neocon movement in the U.S. collectively shiat itself in a fit of apoplexy.
 
2007-02-18 03:20:07 PM  
"You. Are. Wrong. You benefit from an educated population even if your kids are not part of it."

Fine, I have no problem with paying school taxes. The problem is the prevailing attitude that the more $$ a school district spends, the better an education they are providing.
 
2007-02-18 03:21:40 PM  
Oracle of Bandwidth: How do I benefit from other people's kids getting educated off my buck?

An educated work force has no value to you. Calling tech support and getting illiterates doesn't faze you a bit. If the checker/waitress/drive-through window monkey can't make change...it's only money, right?
 
2007-02-18 03:24:12 PM  
Oracle of Bandwidth: Who honestly cares if we ever have a minority in a high office as long as whoever it is does a good job?

And that is exactly Spaztictacular's premise: that finally we appear to have reached the point, after a history of exclusively white male leadership, where race and gender don't matter and these candidates can actually be seen as serious contenders.
 
2007-02-18 03:27:52 PM  
Oracle of Bandwidth: How do I benefit from other people's kids getting educated off my buck?

By them being able to make change, when you checkout at the grocery store.

By them being able to read and follow safety regulations that may prevent your clothes from spontaneously combusting, when you pick them up from the dry cleaners.

By them being able to read and follow safety codes and architectural plans while building your house, so that it doesn't collapse under it's own weight.

In other words, you benefit in a million different ways, every single day. You may simply be too self centered to see it.
 
2007-02-18 03:28:31 PM  
Anyone who voted for George W. Bush in 2004 forfeits the right to speak as if they know what's best for our nation. Hillary has her strengths and her faults. She's not my ideal candidate but I can think of plenty worse, including the man currently holding the office.
 
2007-02-18 03:29:06 PM  
Incredulous

Overruling a law that conflicts with the constitution can hardly be described as judicial activism.

Right, but that law didn't conflict with the constitituion. There is no mention of gay marraige anywhere in the constitution.
 
2007-02-18 03:30:17 PM  
I hope she wins just so all you anti-Hillary whiners can cry in your soup.

Too bad it won't matter because Edwards/Whoever or Gore/Whoever will win in 2008.
 
2007-02-18 03:32:19 PM  
2007-02-18 03:20:07 PM GoldSpider

Fine, I have no problem with paying school taxes. The problem is the prevailing attitude that the more $$ a school district spends, the better an education they are providing.

Education is expensive. Anything truly worth having is.
 
2007-02-18 03:35:48 PM  
bipolar

It is unconstitutional to deny group B the rights enjoyed by group A.

They're not being denied any rights. A gay man can marry any woman he wants. :)
 
2007-02-18 03:36:24 PM  
mike_the_engineer: Right, but that law didn't conflict with the constitituion. There is no mention of gay marraige anywhere in the constitution.

It doesn't much matter that "gay marriage," or even the word "marriage" does not appear within the constitution. The 14th Amendment protects the equal protection of the laws. Straight folks can get married, gay folks can't - that is, there is a set of rights, privileges and benefits that are available to straight folks, which are not available to gay folks.

It doesn't matter whether the particular "protections" of the laws are enumerated in the Constitution - if they're extended, they must be extended equally.

Oh, and I just can't let this one go:

If an issue is not mentioned in the constitution, it cannot be declared unconstitutional. You are attempting to apply the inverse. The inverse is not true.

That couldn't be more wrong. With regards to powers enumerated to the government, it's not true that if something is not mentioned, it can't be unconstitutional - rather, it is the case that if a power is not mentioned/implied in the constitution, it is, by definition, unconstitutional. If the constitution doesn't say that the President can do X, the President cannot do X.
 
2007-02-18 03:36:58 PM  
mike_the_engineer: There is no mention of gay marraige anywhere in the constitution.

There's no mention of marriage, of any sort, in the constitution.
 
2007-02-18 03:38:47 PM  
When did this become a thread about teh buttsecks?
 
2007-02-18 03:39:59 PM  
Rovian: This is really the stupidest thing I've heard in my airspace all day long.

Really? The majority of the company's business is overseas. The majority of their products are pumped overseas. The majority of their workers are foreign. The majority of their crude is sold in places other than the US. I think that is a legit question to ask.

Exxon pumps oil off the coast of west africa using contract laborers from South Africa. They sell the crude at the EU commodity bourse.

If you try to keep pushing their corporate tax rates up, companies will just up spin off parts of their business that have minimal US ties to avoid taxes.

I won't even try to explain the effect lowering taxes on business helps the economy, you'll just run around with cotton balls in your ears.

Friartuck has cut and run. Not to worry, he's likely spreading his brand of stupidity somewhere else.

Sorry I'm not here to answer your questions all day long. This now marks the third hour that I've been actively posting in the forumn. May I leave sometime today, teacher?
 
2007-02-18 03:42:27 PM  
mike_the_engineer: They're not being denied any rights. A gay man can marry any woman he wants. :)

For the sake of argument, I'll grant you that prohibiting gay marriage does not violate equal protection on the grounds of sexual orientation (though that's a tremendously narrow interpretation of the issue).

However, there is a strong case to be made that prohibiting same-sex marriage violates equal protection on the grounds of gender. Consider 3 people, call them Peter, Paul, and Mary. Under the law as it stands now, Mary is allowed to marry Peter (that is to say, Mary is allowed to enter into what is essentially a contractual relationship with Peter, and to receive all of the rights, benefits, and privileges associated with that relationship). Paul, on the other hand, is not allowed to marry Peter, simply because Paul is male. In other words, Mary is entitled to a set of rights/protections/etc that Paul is not entitled to, simply because Mary is female and Peter is male.
 
2007-02-18 03:44:43 PM  
Constitution: Meh. Over the years, so many exceptions, definitions, loopholes, and details have been added to the US base of laws that pretty much anything the federal govt wants to do is "consitutional" if worded the right way. Once the idea that "interstate commerce" applies to pretty much everything got popular, the usefulness of the constitution as a law-limiting document was pretty much over.
 
2007-02-18 03:44:52 PM  
BrotherAlpha: The Clinton quote you keep bringing up is about corporate taxes.

No. That quote is about personal income taxes. It was delivered in 2004 in California to DNC contributors. It was a half-joke to her and the crowd at the time because she was talking about the Bush tax cuts- which target the top earners - who are the people who sit in ballrooms and decide whether to give to campaigns. At that time, the debate was whether to make them permanent or not. She wanted not.

I've explained in detail about the speech even as far a telling you the speech happened on a sunday.

You can continue to claim that she was talking about corporate taxes. She wasn't. It is an quote attributed to a certain moment in time and place. Her intent was clear at the time to her audience and to the media that covered the event.
 
2007-02-18 03:46:11 PM  
God I hope Hillary wins. The collective head asplosion from the right-wing talking heads will be awesome.

I'm voting for Hillary for the entertainment value it will provide. Politics is entertainment for a lot of us.
 
2007-02-18 03:48:24 PM  
www.richardsonforpresident.com
It's all Democrats need to know...
 
2007-02-18 03:49:56 PM  
... and I would vote for Henry Rollins. Just for what he would do to Ann Coulter.
 
2007-02-18 03:50:55 PM  
DrBenway: Your response to Kiribub is utterly besides the point.

No it is not. He is saying that they're actions in buying patents aren't moral. I agree, as I had previously said corporations are amoral.

There would be less innovation in R&D heavy fields without the patent system we have now.

The morality doesn't matter. There are laws in place to deal with anti-competitive practices.
 
2007-02-18 03:53:48 PM  
Kiribub: You don't seem to understand my question.

Why don't you rephrase it since it is so important?
 
2007-02-18 03:56:33 PM  
Let's ask Vince Foster what he thinks!
Oh wait, he's dead.
Nevermind...
 
2007-02-18 04:00:38 PM  
El_Perro: Consider 3 people, call them Peter, Paul, and Mary

Peter, Paul, and Mary were dirty commies, who sang about puffing on magic dragons. Hardly the type of people that deserve protection.
 
2007-02-18 04:01:03 PM  
FriarTuck: Why don't you rephrase it since it is so important?

Discussion with you is demonstrably like talking to a wall. You've made up your mind, your tone is similar to a petulant child, and I'm quite through with you. Good day to you, good bye.
 
2007-02-18 04:02:00 PM  
A woman and a black guy????

Republicans everywhere say thank you for handing them the Presidency once again.
 
2007-02-18 04:05:13 PM  
He is saying that they're actions in buying patents aren't moral.


So where in this single sentence does Kiribub say anything about morality, FriarTuck?

Kiribub: Could it be possible that they've bought out said patents in order to remove potential competition for IC engines?

pipingplover:
 
Let's ask Vince Foster what he thinks!
Oh wait, he's dead.
Nevermind...


Wow! The old "Vince Foster troll" back in play! Got to love those golden oldies...
 
2007-02-18 04:05:44 PM  
Meh, she'll win every state that Kerry won no matter who the GOP runs, as any top tier Democratic candidate would, plus pick up a couple of states out of OH, FL, LA, AR, CO, AZ, NH, WV, and NV, and that's all she wrote.
 
2007-02-18 04:06:35 PM  
When is Condaleeza going to announce her run.

Up until Hillary declared, every time Hillary was brought up, Condaleeza was automatically mentioned as being a female candidate from the opposing side.
 
2007-02-18 04:09:12 PM  
BrotherAlpha:
The Clinton quote you keep bringing up is about corporate taxes.

FriarTuck:
No. That quote is about personal income taxes.

So she mentioned Exxon while talking about raising personal income taxes? I think you are getting your quotes confused.
 
2007-02-18 04:11:55 PM  
Resin33

God I hope Hillary wins. The collective head asplosion from the right-wing talking heads will be awesome.

I'm voting for Hillary for the entertainment value it will provide. Politics is entertainment for a lot of us.


.....now THAT is a really good argument for how she could actually win....she might get the "...wouldn't it be great if..." vote.
 
2007-02-18 04:12:15 PM  
Oracle of Bandwidth:
How do I benefit from other people's kids getting educated off my buck?

I was going to explain it to you, then I read the part of you post about the bullet and realized it would be a waste of time.
 
2007-02-18 04:13:47 PM  
Oracle of Bandwidth:
I'm so confused, we're suppose to overcome racism by choosing who we elect based on skin color?

No, you ignorant shiat. The fact that there's such a diverse field is evidence that we are overcoming racism. Which is a reason to celebrate.
 
2007-02-18 04:14:42 PM  
When is Condaleeza going to announce her run.


I don't think there's a chance in hell that Condoleeza Rice runs for anything, All Apologies. She's clearly not comfortable dealing with difficult questions and really, she's an academe, not a politician. I can't see her having any taste at all for a long arduous campaign.
 
2007-02-18 04:16:41 PM  
DrBenway: I don't think there's a chance in hell that Condoleeza Rice runs for anything, All Apologies.

That, and she refers to George W. Bush as a "man of action."

!
 
2007-02-18 04:19:20 PM  
Oracle of Bandwidth:
How do I benefit from other people's kids getting educated off my buck?

Kids go to school, actually learn something, grow up to become working members of our communities and, thus, pay taxes. If you don't see how you benefit from others paying taxes, I can not help you.
 
2007-02-18 04:19:38 PM  
 
2007-02-18 04:22:36 PM  
BrotherAlpha: I was going to explain it to you, then I read the part of you post about the bullet and realized it would be a waste of time.

law enforcement is valid function of government therefor the police protecting everyone from criminals is valid. Education is not.

If you want to change the constitution to make education a federal duty, go for it.
 
2007-02-18 04:24:48 PM  
SOAD602: Kids go to school, actually learn something, grow up to become working members of our communities and, thus, pay taxes. If you don't see how you benefit from others paying taxes, I can not help you.

Right, and just because it's good doesn't mean it is a citizens duty to pay for it. Them paying more taxes doesn't necessarily benefit me, it benefits the government that took my money in the first place.
 
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