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(News.com.au)   Whalers: Ah, our ship is on fire Greenpeace: Come aboard our ship Whalers: NO Greenpeace: Fine, DIAF while we watch   (news.com.au) divider line 182
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20033 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2007 at 10:51 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-02-14 11:18:03 PM
El_Swino: The people doing the ramming are with The Sea Shepherd Society. Greenpeace does not ram ships. Greenpeace tossed Paul Watson out for advocating doing so.

Ok, I did some reasearch and take it back. I had read a account of the incident that lumped the Sea Shepherd in with Greenpeace. From the article I thought the Sea Shepherd was part of the Greenpeace fleet. (That's not the article I linked to above. I just did a google news search and linked to the first article that talked about Paul Watson saying he was going to ram a boat.) I've now read a few other accounts and they make it clear the Sea Shepard is there with Greenpeace, but is not affiliated.
 
2007-02-14 11:18:27 PM
http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/FrameGrabs/4ACV16/Grabs/pic00146.jpg


introducing MUSHU, the educated whale who thinks hes better than u.
 
2007-02-14 11:21:00 PM
Greenpeace or Peta they are all the same. Terrorists, Terrorists I tells ya' Now get off my lawn!

/Used to live in Japan
//Cool Country
///I ate whale blubber, but only once
 
2007-02-14 11:21:54 PM
rwg - So, by your reckoning, if the Japanese whalers accepted GP's help and were delivered safely to land, they should never go back to whaling again. After all, that would be terribly "ungrateful" of them...

This is a war. GP have been quite careful NOT to cause physical harm to the whalers. They are even offering to save lives here. But the farking Japanese whaling agency insist that they would rather have their crew members DIAF rather than be saved by GP. Farking managers ought to DIAF, but the crew should tell their bosses to get farked and accept GP's help.
 
2007-02-14 11:23:33 PM
ShawnDoc: he Japanese are calling them terrorists because 2 Greenpeace vessels rammed a Japanese boat

did you even read the article? the guy talking about ramming from from the Sea Shepards organisation who actually are militants and do damage when they can, and have NOTHING to do with greenpeace....these were two separate organisations doing two seperate protests against the same thing.
 
2007-02-14 11:24:04 PM
"that doesn't change the fact that Greenpeace is a terrorist organization"

Your hyperbole is up there with the FBI's, which named the ELF idiots a leading terrorist threat...neither group has actually killed anyone...and that "ramming" barely scratched the paint.
 
2007-02-14 11:24:11 PM
ShawnDoc: Yea, but Greenpeace aren't the ocean police. If Japan is violating a treaty its not Greenpeace's job to stop it. They can witness it and film it or document it however, but ramming other boats is off limits.

Whose job is it to enforce the treaty, though?

The IWC has been basically neutered lately. For the first time in decades, there's now a pro-whaling majority on the voting committee. Which basically defeats the entire purpose of the treaty.

There are no cops on the high seas. I mean, it's an academic exercise to talk about rights and rule of law on the high seas. There are certain treaties and conventions about rights of passage and trade, but for all intents and purposes, might makes right.
 
2007-02-14 11:24:23 PM
ShawnDoc

El_Swino: The people doing the ramming are with The Sea Shepherd Society. Greenpeace does not ram ships. Greenpeace tossed Paul Watson out for advocating doing so.

Ok, I did some reasearch and take it back. I had read a account of the incident that lumped the Sea Shepherd in with Greenpeace. From the article I thought the Sea Shepherd was part of the Greenpeace fleet. (That's not the article I linked to above. I just did a google news search and linked to the first article that talked about Paul Watson saying he was going to ram a boat.) I've now read a few other accounts and they make it clear the Sea Shepard is there with Greenpeace, but is not affiliated.


There were two different rammings. The Sea Shepard (not Greenpeace) and The Arctic Sunrise (Greenpeace).
 
2007-02-14 11:24:28 PM
Hey Japanese I got a present 4 ya.

people.brunel.ac.uk
 
2007-02-14 11:24:51 PM
I wonder why people are getting so uppity about the Japanese hunting for whale. It's been a part of their culture for nearly 1500 years, so I would think they have just as much justification as Natives do when it comes to whaling.
 
2007-02-14 11:27:18 PM
ShawnDoc

That wasn't Greenpeace, it was an organization called Sea Shephard, the leader was once a member of Greenpeace but left it to form his own organization, as he thought that Greenpeace wasn't radical enough. GreenPeace has never directly engaged a whaling vessel that way. They interpose themselves between the spear cannons on the whalers and the whales as well as monitoring the ocean enviroment as a whole, for toxicity and overfishing etc. It was Greenpeace that publicized the 20 mile long drift nets being used by the Koreans and the Japanese to strip mine the oceans.

The French gov't bombed the Rainbow Warrior as an act of terrorism when they were setting up to do a series of nuclear explosive testing in the central Pacific. One crewmember died, and the French President and most of his executive staff lost their jobs as a result. The French Navy also lost all naval landing privileges for shore leave in NZ and Australia. New Zealands ban is still in place. It was an act of war after all. To this day, Kiwifolks still hate the French military and their gov't refuses to cooperate with them.

/fark
//The
///French.
 
2007-02-14 11:27:27 PM
ten_of_spades - certain African cultures have been performing female circumcisions for thousands of years, too, but I'm certainly not in favour of allowing that to continue, either...
 
2007-02-14 11:27:31 PM
are we sure greenpeace didnt start the f ire?
 
2007-02-14 11:28:57 PM
GreenPeace has never directly engaged a whaling vessel that way.

Yes they have. See the YouTube link I posted above.
 
2007-02-14 11:29:24 PM
You guys aren't very informed. Just because groups like Green Peace and PETA seem like they are helping they end up doing a lot of harm.

The best source of info that most people will watch is in Penn and Tellers: Bullshiat! I applaude them for getting the word out about many... bullshiat organizations and ethics in an entertaining way. Unfortunatly it looks like most episodes are off Google Video, but I'll link what I can.

PETA = Terrorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY
(its a bit edited to make it shorter if you were wondering)

If you are able to get your hands on episodes of it then I'd recommend checking out:
Recycling and Eviromentalism... I mean they are all gold but those 2 (3 including peta) relate to this.
 
2007-02-14 11:29:51 PM
I may just be trolling through here, but um... WOW, most of your comments are vindictive, for the love a god a sailor is missing! won't anyone think of the poor human life that apparently may have been lost. Those Greenpeace turrorists are killing off our sailors, in a hundred years they may be close to extinction. And i think they might be causing "Global Cooling TM"
 
2007-02-14 11:30:18 PM
The bizarre thing is, very few Japanese even *like* whale meat anymore. It used to be a big cultural thing, but now eve most of them admit it tastes like shiat.
 
2007-02-14 11:30:30 PM
Whales are drinking all our water and eating our sailors.

/fark 'em
 
2007-02-14 11:30:32 PM
LocalCynic: The IWC has been basically neutered lately. For the first time in decades, there's now a pro-whaling majority on the voting committee. Which basically defeats the entire purpose of the treaty.

this is only because small 3rd world countries that are on the commitee are being bought off with millions in 'aid' from Japan to vote they way they're told, and they can't afford not to. if anti-whaling countries offered cash incentives, then the votes would be theirs.
 
2007-02-14 11:31:26 PM
frupert the nude apricot: are we sure greenpeace didnt start the f ire?

nah...it was always burnin' since the world's been turnin'

/hangs head in shame
 
2007-02-14 11:32:08 PM
No whale related thread can be complete without a link to the EXPLODING WHALE VIDEO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_t44siFyb4
 
2007-02-14 11:32:20 PM
Does anyone know how Greenpeace gets enough in contributions to pay for their ships, their crew, and give a stipend (presumably) to the activists on board?

Seems like a costly venture. Who is giving them money?

They don't seem to market using the normal activist channels (mailings, etc.).
 
2007-02-14 11:32:23 PM
Let's see: Die a horrific fiery death, or hang out with smelly hippies on a boat. Fiery death, smelly hippies. Smelly hippies, fiery death....

It's a Lose/Lose.
 
2007-02-14 11:32:50 PM
I really do feel this way though...

mmm, whale blubbber
 
2007-02-14 11:33:05 PM
ten_of_spades: I wonder why people are getting so uppity about the Japanese hunting for whale. It's been a part of their culture for nearly 1500 years, so I would think they have just as much justification as Natives do when it comes to whaling.

and of course they do it in the traditional way, with fleets of boats, sonar and explosive harpoons
 
2007-02-14 11:33:20 PM
Greenpeace = PETA

Both are organizations that have more rational counterparts doing actual good, rather than setting fire to shiat.

fark 'em both. I wouldn't set foot on their goddamned boat either. I'd fight the fire or sit my ass in a liferaft till someone with a brain got there.
 
2007-02-14 11:34:11 PM
Skyhook: Who is giving them money?

I donate monthly.
 
2007-02-14 11:34:45 PM
facework: Asian people have no environmental conscience. They eat anything. They destroy anything to consume what they want.

I dunno, many Japanese have a gaia complex. They do eat pretty much any type of sea animal though.
 
2007-02-14 11:34:55 PM
There are a lot of people who contribute money to Greenpeace, Skyhook, and I'm one of them.

/fark all you environmental terrorists - GP is anti-war and anti-whaling, and I am, too!
 
2007-02-14 11:35:23 PM
DustBunny: this is only because small 3rd world countries that are on the commitee are being bought off with millions in 'aid' from Japan to vote they way they're told, and they can't afford not to. if anti-whaling countries offered cash incentives, then the votes would be theirs.

Not going to happen. I mean, the US was the major anti-whaling nation, but the American vote flipped for other unrelated political reasons.

For Japan, I'd guess that this is a lot less about commerce and science than it is about extending their regional influence vis a vis China and other potential competitors. It's just a shame that they're trying to spread influence by screwing with an otherwise effective and important international treaty.
 
2007-02-14 11:36:08 PM
ten_of_spades

I wonder why people are getting so uppity about the Japanese hunting for whale. It's been a part of their culture for nearly 1500 years, so I would think they have just as much justification as Natives do when it comes to whaling.

I don't think anyone would be too upset with them hunting whales using 1500 year old designs for ships and equipment, to preserve their precious culture. Ditto for Alaskan natives hunting whales using spears and sealskin kayaks.
 
2007-02-14 11:36:37 PM
There are about a million mink whales in the seas; the species is not endangered. The relatively small number of whalers from Japan and Iceland don't threaten them.

Greenpeace could be out spending money and resources protecting species that are actually endangered, but instead they bother a few whaling vessels and end up not really saving many whales at all. They're just a bunch of stupid impsulsive hippies that hurt their own cause.

/am definitely eating whale if I ever go to Japan or Iceland
 
2007-02-14 11:37:53 PM
Given the choice, I'd far rather give $5/month to Greenpeace than join TF...

So I did!
 
2007-02-14 11:38:11 PM
No Such Agency: - Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, "Good Omens"

i picked that book up a few months ago and have been too busy to read it yet, i will have to get started
 
2007-02-14 11:39:00 PM
Get a brain Moronuki
 
2007-02-14 11:39:15 PM
The issue here is also that Japan keeps whaling under 'scientific' purposes. I think the theory they're trying to prove involves the law of supply and demand, because the whales they kill end up being sold as food in Japanese markets.

I just can't figure out why Japan (and to a lesser extent Norway) continue the practice of whaling. Japan's taking over 800 whales a year, and now they are looking at taking 50 humpback whales a year.

I can only hope our next President will lean on them to stop this process. Neither Japan nor Norway has a valid reason to continue whaling. There are the indigenous peoples around the world (including Canada, shocker!) take small amounts of whales for sustenance, but even some of those end up selling the meat.
 
2007-02-14 11:39:37 PM
Ten_of_spades: Yes, honorable whale always been caught with
high power spear and large metal ship to store ancient fish.
img247.imageshack.us
 
2007-02-14 11:40:47 PM
aerojockey - Japan is taking finned whales now. There are definitely NOT a million humpbacks left in the world and there aren't enough for them to resume commercial whaling of the species, but they're doing it anyway, and they're doing it in an international wildlife refuge, to boot. The Japanese can kiss my arse.
 
2007-02-14 11:43:28 PM
MONEY CAN NOT BE EATEN!
 
2007-02-14 11:43:46 PM
SwiftFox: I don't think anyone would be too upset with them hunting whales using 1500 year old designs for ships and equipment, to preserve their precious culture. Ditto for Alaskan natives hunting whales using spears and sealskin kayaks.

The animal rights organizations would likely have a problem with that. I mean, it's a lot less humane (for lack of a better word) to kill an animal with a bunch of spears than a harpoon with bombs embedded in it. The entire point of the ASW exemption was to ensure that cultural practices weren't disturbed by the international laws. But that leaves you with two big questions. First, what if the cultural practices are disruptive to the whale and fish stocks? Second, what if the practices are particularly brutal and inhumane compared to modern standards?

Interestingly, I read a while ago that the Makah Nation of Washington has been trying to obtain an ASW exception for some time to kill so many gray whales per year, but the American representatives to the IWC keep dodging the issue. It's caused a major debate within the Makah about bringing back a whaling tradition that hasn't been part of their culture for a number of years. Which brings up another question: if a group wants to engage in a cultural practice that hasn't been done for a long time, should the law allow them to? Further, should the law only allow them to engage in that practice if it's done according to "tradition?" What if the people want to change their traditions?

It brings up all sorts of messy questions, really.
 
2007-02-14 11:44:25 PM
El_Swino [TotalFark]

ShawnDoc

The Japanese are calling them terrorists because 2 Greenpeace vessels rammed a Japanese boat earlier this week (or late last week), and one of the captains of the Greenpeace boat when interviewed said he was planning to ram another fishing boat in the hopes they could damage it. They have since called it off.

__

The people doing the ramming are with The Sea Shepherd Society. Greenpeace does not ram ships. Greenpeace tossed Paul Watson out for advocating doing so.


While I was once searching for my "next big adventure", I ran across a documentary on the Sea Shepherds, and thought it might be cool to join them, as they were taking a concrete stance on whaling treaty violations. I was disillusioned when crew interviews revealed that they were a bunch of new-age "dolphin spiritual" flakes and "harmonic convergence" idiots. I swore off that, and decided to seek out a crew that would ram violating vessels purely on legal and moral grounds. No luck yet.
 
2007-02-14 11:45:40 PM
news.nationalgeographic.com

Take it up the ass, you worthless piece of shiates.

Eat more tofu, you farks.


/loves me my animals fighting back
 
2007-02-14 11:46:12 PM
When the sun explodes in a billion years or whatever the number is, none of this will matter The whales will be dead anyways, and there won't even be a Greenpeace to cry about it.

I've always wondered at the hyperventilations of super-conservationists like Greenpeace. There isn't a big beard in the sky that's going to wipe out all humans if we let species go extinct. ('You let the whales die... game over, monkey people.') It's not like we rack up intergalactic brownie points for how many species we rescue from the brink.

Anyways.

The Japanese like whale meat. Good for them. Maybe, just maybe, if we let the market that consumes whale meat regulate how much it catches instead of having to worry about the international community going all apeshiat, perhaps they won't run them into eternity. Maybe they're already doing it, except nobody notices because everyone is going 'Pfft, research, whatever, SAVE THE WHALES!' I dunno, I don't pretend to be terribly involved in this issue.

Fishing is regulated, just go regulate bloody whale hunting instead of outright banning it. Japan is not going to want to run out its supply of tasty whale blubber, and they're not going to cheat on the books. It's economics. If they're allowed, and they can play by the rules, then why would they want to fudge the numbers and get their peepee slapped again?

Just regulate it, and be done with it. If Japan cheats, make the fines stiff as hell.

/drunk, tired, looking at a picture maybe too big
 
2007-02-14 11:46:46 PM
aerojockey,

you will regret that meal, whale meat is nasty. The Makah tribe here in Washington finally won their court battle a few years ago to hunt whales for their meat, as per the treaty that they signed back in the late 1800's. They caught one and distributed portions of the meat to the tribal members and they discovered that it tasted absolutly awful, The meat is pretty much indigestable and it stinks like hell when you cook it. Smells like a combination of burning tires and cabbage farts. Most of that meat is still in deep freeze and nobody wants it. They tried again the next year but they never got close enough to make a kill. They haven't tried since.

Incidentally, name one act of terrorism that Greenpeace comitted. That video shows the greenpeace vessel being rammed by the whaler, not the other way around.
 
2007-02-14 11:48:04 PM
Doomed: When the sun explodes in a billion years or whatever the number is, none of this will matter The whales will be dead anyways, and there won't even be a Greenpeace to cry about it.

There are no words to describe this drivel properly.

Suits your name though ;)
 
2007-02-14 11:49:44 PM
aerojockey - Have fun, there should be lots of toxins in that meat.

You should also eat a nice Labrador Retriever while in Korea. I hear they aren't endangered either but some idiots out there are saying people can't kill them for food, fur, or fun.
 
2007-02-14 11:50:51 PM
I live next to a big mink farm. A couple years ago a bunch (like 20,000) got released into the wild by a bunch of enviro's. End result is that nearly all died, they were all over the road. Plus their hunting range is fairly large that the land just couldn't sustain that large of a population.

Yeah, they love sabatoge. Nails on the road during hunting season, releasing animals from farms, etc.
 
2007-02-14 11:51:54 PM
Doomed: I dunno, I don't pretend to be terribly involved in this issue.

Your lack of knowledge shows. If all you care about is yourself, just say so in one sentence and spare us your page of drivel.
 
2007-02-14 11:53:31 PM
Lord Ben: Yeah, they love sabatoge. Nails on the road during hunting season, releasing animals from farms, etc.

There's nothing wrong with hunting most animals, but I draw the line at killing sentient species and endangered animals.
 
2007-02-14 11:53:50 PM
"The Japanese Fisheries Agency has labelled anti-whaling vessels as "environmental terrorists" and says it will refuse their help for its distressed vessel in Antarctica."

Oh yeah, that'll show them. Maybe next time they can set fire to their own boats and burn to a horrible, crispy death just to make Greenpeace feel guilty.

I'm not exactly a big environmental crusader, and I'm certainly not a vegetarian. But the Japanese are hunting endangered species important to our ecosystem inside of a wildlife refuge against treaties that they signed all the while claiming that their whaling fleet is really a "scientific exploration" fleet that just happens to kill and sell for food every "specimen" they come across.

And now their official representative organization is telling its own sailors to DIE rather than give those in the right the "satisfaction" of aiding a ship in distress on the high seas.

There's something very, very wrong with these people.
 
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