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(Lancashire Evening Post)   City council crushes man's car after he was seen dumping garbage from it. No word on if they had 27 eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one   (lep.co.uk) divider line 146
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9077 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Feb 2007 at 2:55 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-02-09 04:05:43 AM
They can make you quit using your property for anything profitable and still force you to do upkeep and security updates on that property if you are caught harboring an endangered species on your land.

On that note, zoning laws are pretty good at effectively relieving people of property value as well. My dad inherited a chunk of land (his dad had a small lumber co.) a few blocks away from a very popular beach, and in the 80-90s the area started developing like crazy. He got a couple of offers on the land but didn't bother selling it (big mistake it turns out). After all, property values generally keep increasing, especially if an area is developing rapidly, right?

Well, the city decides that the area close to their prized beach has had just the right amount of development (one would assume, since they didn't stop it earlier) and rezoned the whole thing as basically undevelopable. A real estate agent said that selling it to the city for use as a park (for about 1/6 the value it had when developable, which was almost $1 million) was pretty much the only thing to do with it, and even then the city probably wouldn't buy (why should they, it's already preserved entirely on my dad's dime).

The real kicker: the thousands of dollars of property tax every year that goes towards their local education system while he lives (and I went to school) hundreds of miles away.
 
2007-02-09 04:06:33 AM
Basically the government can do whatever the fark it wants to your property for any reason and get away with it. It doesn't matter if you live in the US/UK/wherever. Some governments are more likely to do nasty things to people, but none are entirely above it.
 
2007-02-09 04:09:23 AM
So there I was sitting on the group W bench...
 
2007-02-09 04:15:33 AM
pnjunction, they've been seizing car of people soliciting prostitutes aswell. I was joking with my boss about it, he drives a Carrera GT. I said so here I am in my rental with a $50 insurance policy, and there you are in your $440,000 Carrera, how's that fair. The penalty for him would be 8,800 times harsher than for me, for the exact same crime.

I guess it's all about driving a piece of shiat. ;)
 
2007-02-09 04:16:52 AM
Mother Rapers, Father Stabbers,......Father Rapers!!
 
2007-02-09 04:17:53 AM
You can get anythang you want...
at Alice's Restaurant!

+1 to subby for reference. Made me LOL.
 
2007-02-09 04:18:11 AM
I asked for Alice, but didn't get her though :^(
 
2007-02-09 04:18:12 AM
mikaloyd

You can get anything you want at Alices restaurant, excepting Alice.


Walk right in, it's around the back. Just a half mile down the railroad track.
 
2007-02-09 04:21:52 AM
Holy shiat, I really hope that wasn't legal at all and the man sues their pants off.

I gotta admit I'm not terribly enthusiastic 'bout our vice laws, but in many respects Britain makes the US government look good.
 
2007-02-09 04:26:10 AM
I hope these garbage dumping people were moral enough to join the army.
 
2007-02-09 04:26:43 AM
whatshisname:
The only people who'll understand that headline are in diapers again. Now, get off my lawn!

I wasn't born till after that song was released, but it's in my mp3 playlist on heavy rotation.
 
2007-02-09 04:27:01 AM
True, but if no drugs are found/planted, and the courts find you innocent, life goes on like nothing ever happened.

Yep, except without your property. From my link earlier:

What's more, unlike a defendant in a criminal trial, Ramirez was not entitled to a government-appointed attorney if he could not afford a private lawyer. He would have had to hire the attorney at his own expense--and as Bruce Simon, a Missouri lawyer to whom Ramirez went for help, explains, no lawyer in the country would likely take that case.

"Generally speaking, it's not worth it unless you've had twenty-five to thirty thousand dollars taken away," says Simon. It would have cost a minimum of around $10,000 to take a case like Ramirez' to court, says Simon, so the $6,000 he would have gotten back wouldn't even cover his lawyer's fees. As a result of these blunt financial realities, Simon has seen many innocent owners simply give up without a fight when faced with a system that provides "no effective remedy" for them.



Wow SepticSkeptic, I hadn't heard of that one before. What's next: you use your car to speed and that's grounds to take it away too? Almost makes more sense than seizing it for picking up whores.

I swear, you give them an inch and they take a mile, and your car, and your cash....and the only way to try and get it back is a civil case that costs at least $10000 to take to court where your property is deemed 'guilty' until proven innocent.
 
2007-02-09 04:28:01 AM
pnjunction: They can make you quit using your property for anything profitable and still force you to do upkeep and security updates on that property if you are caught harboring an endangered species on your land.

On that note, zoning laws are pretty good at effectively relieving people of property value as well. My dad inherited a chunk of land (his dad had a small lumber co.) a few blocks away from a very popular beach, and in the 80-90s the area started developing like crazy. He got a couple of offers on the land but didn't bother selling it (big mistake it turns out). After all, property values generally keep increasing, especially if an area is developing rapidly, right?

Well, the city decides that the area close to their prized beach has had just the right amount of development (one would assume, since they didn't stop it earlier) and rezoned the whole thing as basically undevelopable. A real estate agent said that selling it to the city for use as a park (for about 1/6 the value it had when developable, which was almost $1 million) was pretty much the only thing to do with it, and even then the city probably wouldn't buy (why should they, it's already preserved entirely on my dad's dime).

The real kicker: the thousands of dollars of property tax every year that goes towards their local education system while he lives (and I went to school) hundreds of miles away.


That's what you call "speculating". He put his name on the title, was expecting to cash in, and got bit when things slowed down. What's with everyone expecting risk-free investments these days?

Money for nothing...
 
2007-02-09 04:36:55 AM
Proper PR procedure:

1) Seize vehicle.

2) Announce seizure; if owner doesn't come forward to face charges, it will be destroyed.

3) Hold environmental fair. Set up charity raffle where winner gets to press the button to crush the truck.
 
2007-02-09 04:38:57 AM
beve - If you're going to quote the US Bill of Rights, please get it right. It states emphatically that a person is innocent UNLESS proven guilty - not UNTIL proven guilty. There is a difference, be it subtle or not.
 
2007-02-09 04:52:31 AM
aecarol
On the actual article, so much for due process. If that happened in the US it would be litigation city.

They had that case in Chicago where a car worth about $15,000 was towed for a parking violation; it belonged to a soldier in Iraq. His mother couldn't afford to pay, especially with the fees they charge daily for keeping the car, so the city sold the car for $500 for a lot that has a no-bid contract to buy any car from the city for $500. In addition, they didn't even credit the $500 against the fine, they still went after him to pay in full.

They had a second case in that city where a man had his car stolen and after the police recovered it, they gave him the same fines for keeping it in their impound lot. When he couldn't pay, they sold his car.
 
2007-02-09 04:54:33 AM
Oh, and Chicago will tow and even crush your car because of unpaid parking tickets, again without bringing you to court.
 
2007-02-09 05:02:15 AM
TwitGibbler

That's what you call "speculating". He put his name on the title, was expecting to cash in, and got bit when things slowed down. What's with everyone expecting risk-free investments these days?

Money for nothing...


Ummm...WTF are you talking about? Speculating? Put his name on the title? He inherited the property; my grandfather bought it over 50 years ago. Cash in? If he was that eager to cash in he would've sold it when offered 900k. He was too busy to worry about real estate deals at the time regardless.

Things slowed down? They had to rezone the area to keep the whole thing from developing. I'm not saying restricting development is entirely a bad thing, but I think he is owed some compensation. They decimated his property value with the stroke of the pen, *nothing* to do with anything slowing down.

Money for nothing? Yes investments have risks but the government restricting your assets such that they are pretty much worthless (without due compensation) shouldn't be one of them. They want a park/conservation area? Fine, buy it for the market value (or a decent fraction) and go nuts. That's how appropriations are supposed to work. They want (and are currently getting) the milk without buying the cow, to put it in words you might understand.

You are either a decent troll (good one!) or retarded.
 
2007-02-09 05:03:07 AM
pnjunction: Here are some victims. One guy named Ramirez goes to buy a used car with cash and 'forfeits' $6000 after getting pulled over. No drugs, no charges, just took his money and let him go. Bullshiat reasons: 'confused statements', the drug dog alerting to his *rental* car, and a short motel stay (also the name Ramirez, even though they won't admit it). Wouldn't stand a chance in court, but his money is long gone. Whether it was smart to carry that much cash or not, he was within his rights to do so, and the cops that are supposed to protects peoples rights (including the right to property) trampled all over them. There are other examples in the article too.

In summary, your system might be alot further from perfect than you think.



Yes, because citing corrupt officers abusing the laws is an appropriate analog to this situation.

Man you are a jackass.
 
2007-02-09 05:12:02 AM
pnjunction: Well, the city decides that the area close to their prized beach has had just the right amount of development (one would assume, since they didn't stop it earlier) and rezoned the whole thing as basically undevelopable. A real estate agent said that selling it to the city for use as a park (for about 1/6 the value it had when developable, which was almost $1 million) was pretty much the only thing to do with it, and even then the city probably wouldn't buy (why should they, it's already preserved entirely on my dad's dime).

The real kicker: the thousands of dollars of property tax every year that goes towards their local education system while he lives (and I went to school) hundreds of miles away.



Sounds like they put a moritorium up on further building. Which makes sense since additional population increases would require improvements to roads & utilities which the local government was probably unwilling or unable to pay.

Either way, you run risks like this when you try to maintain properties that are distant from your residence. Anyway, you could always inform them of your intention to donate the land to say the Catholic Church...which would remove the land from the tax rolls and leave it un or under-developed for years to come.
 
2007-02-09 05:13:19 AM
I guess he had to pick up the rock??
 
2007-02-09 05:14:48 AM
Devin172

Yes, because citing corrupt officers abusing the laws is an appropriate analog to this situation.

Man you are a jackass.


As opposed to what happened in the article? Don't try and tell me somebody wasn't itching to 'push the button'. They got a nice picture for the press and probably some good laughs around the office too. Corrupt? According to the messed up laws in both countries, both procedures were completely legal.

I'll see your 'jackass' and raise you a 'dumbass'. Oh wait, your parents beat me to it.
 
2007-02-09 05:15:25 AM
For some reason all I can think of when I read this headline is a group of old men saying "All who oppose the City Council shall be CRUSHED!"

And yes I get the reference, gonna dig up my mp3 of it. :)
 
2007-02-09 05:18:49 AM
I am wracking my brains trying to figure out how this is an appropriate punishment.


To be fair, the guy was a repeat offender, they couldn't trace him but they found his car. This all happened last year, and as he didn't claim his car after several months, they crushed it. What are they supposed to do, keep a criminal's car indefinately? On his side, it looks like he'd rather lose the car than pay a large fine or face the possibility of going to jail.
 
2007-02-09 05:24:02 AM
I guess he had to pick up the rock??

Hehe, your comment reminded me of this:

'You have thirty minutes to move your car.'
'You have ten minutes to move your car.'
'Your car has been impounded.'
'Your car has been crushed into a cube.'
'You have thirty minutes to move your cube.'
 
2007-02-09 05:32:31 AM
Mad props for the headline subby.

/Didn't RTFA
//Too early
///I'm grumpy enough without getting all POed at overbearing gov't. types
////Loves me some slashies!
 
2007-02-09 05:36:10 AM
binnster

Wow. The article put an entirely different spin on the story, especially with this sentence:

The Mitsubishi Shogun, which can cost up to £35,000, was seized and destroyed after its driver was spotted dumping rubbish..

It makes it sound like they picked the car up and brought it right to the wrecking yard.

I might have to start double-checking stuff before running my mouth on here...nah, nobody else does.
 
2007-02-09 05:44:25 AM
I wonder if it was really just another case of blind justice, and there was nothing he could do about it

/found my mom's vinyl collection when I was 12
//still have it, as well as the whole album on my ipod
///under 30
 
2007-02-09 06:17:00 AM
*Applause from the group W bench*
 
2007-02-09 06:22:22 AM
It's just a case of blind justice, and there isn't a single thing anyone can do about it.
 
2007-02-09 06:23:25 AM
Well, he was creating a nuisance.
 
2007-02-09 06:32:30 AM
"Money for nothing..."

Right. "Guarantee my investment will appreciate!" Also, you have to be paid something approaching fair market value (in the US anyway) when the government takes your land.

Real Estate is NOT a guarantted investment.
 
2007-02-09 06:46:51 AM
Sounds like Twilly Spree is on the job.

Obscure. No really.
 
2007-02-09 07:15:00 AM
Heard it over Thanksgiving again....great song! So excellent headline!
 
2007-02-09 07:31:59 AM
I'd like to see the same thing done with repeat drunk drivers...only crush the driver and spare the vehicle!

/what?

//"Is it about my cube?"
 
2007-02-09 07:45:28 AM
I haven’t seen Al Gore in a while now I know where that jacktard has been spending his time lately.
 
2007-02-09 07:48:15 AM
They went through their laws to find out how they could proceed.
They matched the crime with the man and the vehicle, due to independent eye witness accounts.
They also know that courts take far too long, so they went through their laws to find out what they could do to keep him from throwing out more tires before his case was tried.

He will also be fined/jailed for his crimes.

I think he's in for a bad time.

/Due process in USA?
//*bump* Guantanamo Bay Phone Call post...
 
2007-02-09 07:48:45 AM
"I wonder to myself if I really can get ANYTHING I want from Alice's restaraunt. I mean, can I get a mountain lion? If I can get a mountain lion, then Alice is the schiat."

Of course you can. Just ask Alice for the Mountain Lion special and she'll bring it right out.

It's gonna look a lot like a sammich however....
 
2007-02-09 08:00:08 AM
Thanks to others for pointing out the property seizure bullshiat going on in the U.S.

\littering is bad, m'kay
\\taking people's property and destroying or selling it is worse
 
2007-02-09 08:00:31 AM
I never knew that Officer Obie was a real officer... Chief of Police in Stockton, MA. Here's the 411...

We all know the story now (some of us by heart) of how Arlo was arrested by Officer Obie for littering. He had to pay a fine and pick up the garbage. Years later, when the arrest showed up on Arlo's record, he was, through the kind of bureaucratic silliness that only government can truely embrace, deemed unsuitable for military service. To paraphrase Arlo, they decided he wasn't fit to go to Vietnam and kill a bunch of people because he was a litterbug. It was a perfect story of the time.

Following the success of Alice's Restaurant the song, came Alice's Restaurant the movie in which both Arlo and Obie played themselves. Here was one cop who seemed to have a sense of humor, or at least a sense of proportion, about the late '60s version of American reality, which was not a pretty sight. If nothing else, he helped to blur the lines between "them" and "us" which was often needed at the time.

Officer Obie was a member of the Stockbridge police force for 34 years, and a model for several Norman Rockwell paintings and Saturday Evening Post covers. But, again, reality was something more, and less.

Ask the people of Stockbridge what Obie was like and you'll get answers like "Bill was a big-hearted fellow and a good cop." or "He was the patron saint of every dog in town; he never once enforced a leash law."

And then you hear that Officer Obie's life (and family) was touched by alcohol, divorce, and suicide. You learn that in 1985, he was forced into retirment after being accused of hitting another officer during a discussion about the unauthorized use of a police car. They say he was drinking at the time, but they don't say it loudly.

So which was the real Officer Obie? As with any of us, the reality of Bill Obanhein was not as easily defined; the man had parts to him. But the part most likely to be remembered is the gruf-voiced, warm man who could laugh at himself. The Officer Obie part. The Norman Rockwell part.
 
2007-02-09 08:13:00 AM
KILL KILL KILL!

/+1 for headline
//Loves Arlo Guthrie
 
2007-02-09 08:21:34 AM
I must be weird, because I think this is OK. The guy blatantly and repeatedly flaunted the law and fly tipped tyres (30 miles from where he lives if I remember rightly (wigan to preston)). If the law is that they can seize and crush the car and then fine him, so be it. Tough titties matey!
 
2007-02-09 08:23:24 AM
considering it was a shogun, I am guessing they considered that it would make a good publicity stunt, but that in reality they knew they were doing the guy a favor.

35k? Hah maybe .35k.
 
2007-02-09 08:24:01 AM
Brad Wesley approves.

/Obscure?
 
2007-02-09 08:35:24 AM
If that happened in the US it would be litigation city.

one would hope, but in reality the majority of people would probably just nod approvingly and say "serves him right."

/most people suck
//including those who dump tires in the country
///but especially those who oppose due process
 
2007-02-09 08:37:52 AM
Rodeodoc

You should give credit to whatever website you ripped that off of...

Especially since you misnamed the town in your lead in.

/Lives 20 minutes north of there
//Went to a concert in the church not too long ago
 
2007-02-09 08:38:48 AM
The only people who'll understand that headline are in diapers again.

I got it, mostly because 80's music sucked so I spent the 80's listening to music from the 60's and 70's. There's a reason Nirvana was so wildly popular; it wasn't that they were so incredibly great (although I think they were a decent band) it was that popular music, much like today, had been stuck in a big long, deep rut of suck for so long that people were ecstatic when something halfway decent came along.
 
2007-02-09 08:43:42 AM
People don't litter .... cars do.
 
2007-02-09 08:46:23 AM
My biology teacher in High School used to play either Arlo Guthrie or Mozart during tests. He was an awesome man, one hell of a teacher and human being. Unfortunately for the classes below me, my class was the last he taught, he died the following summer.

It wasn't until two years after I graduated that I came across Alice's Restaurant on the internet and finally got to listen to the whole tale. :)

Thanks for the memories smitty. :)
 
2007-02-09 08:48:24 AM
The only people who'll understand that headline are in diapers again.

i26.photobucket.com

/not in diapers
//love to hear it around Tahnksgiving
 
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