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(Lancashire Evening Post)   City council crushes man's car after he was seen dumping garbage from it. No word on if they had 27 eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one   (lep.co.uk) divider line 146
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9077 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Feb 2007 at 2:55 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2007-02-09 12:43:22 AM
Great headline, glad to see it somehow got a second chance.

On the actual article, so much for due process. If that happened in the US it would be litigation city.
 
2007-02-09 12:49:21 AM
The only people who'll understand that headline are in diapers again. Now, get off my lawn!
 
2007-02-09 12:50:11 AM
I await the follow-up where it's revealed they got the wrong car.

I think it's extraordinary that they can crush it "without its owner's knowledge" - not giving him the chance to present a legal defense. What happened to "innocent till proven guilty"?
 
2007-02-09 01:01:03 AM
whatshisname

Wrong.
 
2007-02-09 01:38:17 AM
Once the vehicle was traced, Wigan Council used powers under the Disposal of Controlled Waste Regulations 1991 to seize the vehicle from an address in Leyland.

It was crushed at a breaker's yard yesterday.


I am wracking my brains trying to figure out how this is an appropriate punishment.
 
2007-02-09 03:02:13 AM
guessing officer Obie wasn't on the scene
 
2007-02-09 03:03:24 AM
Weaver95: I am wracking my brains trying to figure out how this is an appropriate punishment.

Read "Sick Puppy" by Carl Hiaasen. It all makes perfect sense.
 
2007-02-09 03:03:37 AM
beve: What happened to "innocent till proven guilty"?

It left about 15 years ago...Global security and all that shiat.
 
2007-02-09 03:04:14 AM
Uh, if they have the power to seize his vehicle, why don't they auction it or something and add the funds to the city coffers? What good does crushing it do?
 
2007-02-09 03:04:41 AM
...But I didn't come here to talk about that...
 
2007-02-09 03:05:26 AM
So, destruction of property is a fitting punishment in the UK?

And if tossing out bad tires warrants a car crushing, what do they do if you're caught throwing out old appliances, burn down your house?

The Brits can say all they want about the USA and our "backward" legal system, but at least over here, we are given due process, not "hey, that looks like the car we saw dumping old tires, let's crush it".
 
2007-02-09 03:07:51 AM
Did the Shogun have veins in its teeth?

I went over to the sargent, said, "Sargeant, you got a lot a damn gall to
ask me if I've rehabilitated myself, I mean, I mean, I mean that just, I'm
sittin' here on the bench, I mean I'm sittin here on the Group W bench
'cause you want to know if I'm moral enough join the army, burn women,
kids, houses and villages after bein' a litterbug." He looked at me and
said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send you fingerprints
off to Washington."
 
2007-02-09 03:08:25 AM
Mr Mooo Mooo

at least over here, we are given due process

Collect call from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. About 500 gentlemen say they want to talk to you about something. Will you accept the charges?
 
2007-02-09 03:10:04 AM
What kind of vigilante justice is this? Whatever happened to the court system? And the police? And the presumption of innocence? How do they know the vehicle wasn't taken without consent on each of these occasions? Why isn't there rioting in the farking streets? The UK has changed a LOT since I last lived there.
 
2007-02-09 03:11:37 AM
wait, they took his property and crushed it without even letting him know?

ohh. . .it's the united kingdom.
 
2007-02-09 03:11:54 AM
+1 for Alice's Restaurant subby.

Isn't this against the law though?
 
2007-02-09 03:15:07 AM
Your Fairy Hockey Player: Collect call from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. About 500 gentlemen say they want to talk to you about something. Will you accept the charges?


*zing!*
 
2007-02-09 03:16:24 AM
Your Fairy Hockey Player

Most of them were never in the US in the first place, they were taken there from other countries. And that was the fault of the higher-ups in our government, not some local "I wanna go crush cars today" police officer.

I'm not saying that the US has a perfect legal system, or a perfect government. I'm just saying that over here, we don't view destruction of property as a proper punishment of an unproven crime.
 
2007-02-09 03:16:33 AM
whatshisname: The only people who'll understand that headline are in diapers again. Now, get off my lawn!


Yup.

Strike one up for not knowing WTF the headline is all about.

I wish I was an old bastard so I can get it.
 
2007-02-09 03:17:45 AM
If that happened in the US it would be litigation city.

Actually, in the US it is pretty much the same thing except the police would auction the car instead of destroying it.
 
2007-02-09 03:18:04 AM
whatshisname
Nothing like good ole Alice's Restaurant.

/Early 20's
//Actually has the album
 
2007-02-09 03:19:39 AM
Wow, what a stupid thing to do. I thought governments were supposed to be above this sort of petty justice (due process all that).

As for stupid:

"The owner faces a hefty fine or even a jail term, so we don't expect him to be coming forward at this stage.

"What we have done instead is crush his vehicle and send out the message that environmental vandalism will not be tolerated.

"We will investigate and will do whatever we can to prosecute those involved."


You probably could've baited them with the vehicle, but know you're back to 'investigating' after destroying your main piece of evidence in an act of petty revenge. Also, they tracked it down to an address and seized it, but didn't nab or even identify the owner?? They could've just waited until they showed up, or used the vehicle to bait them like I said before.

Something doesn't add up here...nobody can be THIS stupid. Maybe they figured he'd get off in court anyways, but those aren't the reasons that were given.
 
2007-02-09 03:20:34 AM
whatshisname: The only people who'll understand that headline are in diapers again.

Astronauts?
 
2007-02-09 03:21:20 AM
A $60,000 fine for littering, without a guilty verdict?

Jesus, even Greenpeace would be a bit taken back by that.
 
2007-02-09 03:21:23 AM
CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THIS TO THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET IT PLEASE?!?


/Wonders if anyone remembers Raven7
 
2007-02-09 03:21:30 AM
big pebble

Thanks for helping with the headline. All I could think of was Memento, and I knew that wasn't right.
 
2007-02-09 03:23:33 AM
Prime-8: Wonders if anyone remembers Raven7

OMG, I'd forgotten that. Wow that's a great memory.
 
2007-02-09 03:24:07 AM
if 50 people a day littered in Wigan, would they consider it a movement?

/under 30
 
2007-02-09 03:24:16 AM
I cant weait to see what his insurance companies going to say...
 
2007-02-09 03:24:33 AM
you can get anything you want...

/whistles to self...
//this'll be stuck in my head again for a week
///not complaining...
////SLASHIES FTW!
 
2007-02-09 03:27:17 AM
for those who don't get it, it's a reference to "Alice's Restaurant" a 1960s protest song by Arlo Guthrie

the particular part of the song is repeated a couple times:

"And they was using up all kinds of cop equipment that they had hanging around the police officer's station. They was taking plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and they took twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us"
 
2007-02-09 03:27:56 AM
Autocide?
 
2007-02-09 03:35:15 AM
Arlo FTW!
 
2007-02-09 03:35:55 AM
I am wracking my brains trying to figure out how this is an appropriate punishment.

One does not punish people for crimes in Britain, that would certainly not be civilised or proper. In Britain one prevents crime by taking away those things with which commoners can no longer be trusted as they very well might commit crimes with them. Guns, Penknives,English flags, secondhand smoke,and in the case of illegal dumpers they take away the toerags' trucks and estate wagons.

I just wonder if the owner of the truck knew that someone had illegally dumped trash out of it.
 
2007-02-09 03:37:52 AM
Mr Mooo Mooo: I'm not saying that the US has a perfect legal system, or a perfect government. I'm just saying that over here, we don't view destruction of property as a proper punishment of an unproven crime.


Theft of property is still ok here as long as the police claim the guy had drugs.
 
2007-02-09 03:37:54 AM
Mother rapers! Father rapers!

Veins in my teeth.
 
2007-02-09 03:40:28 AM
Theft of property is still ok here as long as the police claim the guy had drugs.

Utter destruction of property is fine too if they are merely searching for drugs.
 
2007-02-09 03:43:05 AM
...remember Alice? It's a song about Alice...
 
2007-02-09 03:44:00 AM
How is it legal that this council can act as judge & jury? I'm pretty certain that it's "innocent until proven guilty" in the U.K., as it is in the U.S.

I could understand them tracking the person down & levying a large fine, but I don't think they would be able to have a legal leg to stand on in court when it comes to crushing a vehicle for dumping trash. That being said, do they even know for certain that the person dumping the trash was the actual owner of the vehicle?
 
2007-02-09 03:44:57 AM
I'm not saying that the US has a perfect legal system, or a perfect government. I'm just saying that over here, we don't view destruction of property as a proper punishment of an unproven crime.

Maybe not destruction, but innocent folk 'forfeiting' their property is fairly common in association with the drug war. The fuzz there can and will seize your shiat if they suspect you are involved in drug trafficking and you don't get it back even if you are acquitted or charges are never filed. You have to sue to get it back, and will most likely lose. They trot out bullshiat evidence like 'traces of cocaine' etc.. and you get screwed.

Here are some victims. One guy named Ramirez goes to buy a used car with cash and 'forfeits' $6000 after getting pulled over. No drugs, no charges, just took his money and let him go. Bullshiat reasons: 'confused statements', the drug dog alerting to his *rental* car, and a short motel stay (also the name Ramirez, even though they won't admit it). Wouldn't stand a chance in court, but his money is long gone. Whether it was smart to carry that much cash or not, he was within his rights to do so, and the cops that are supposed to protects peoples rights (including the right to property) trampled all over them. There are other examples in the article too.

In summary, your system might be alot further from perfect than you think.
 
2007-02-09 03:46:15 AM
They can make you quit using your property for anything profitable and still force you to do upkeep and security updates on that property if you are caught harboring an endangered species on your land.
 
2007-02-09 03:48:11 AM
Wow, I'm really slow and long-winded. Beaten to the punch several times over.
 
2007-02-09 03:50:04 AM
I wonder to myself if I really can get ANYTHING I want from Alice's restaraunt. I mean, can I get a mountain lion? If I can get a mountain lion, then Alice is the schiat.
 
2007-02-09 03:50:23 AM
On one hand it's an inappropriate punishment, on the other it's a four wheeled drive.
 
2007-02-09 03:52:21 AM
When I read about these stories, it makes me want to commit suicide by beating myself to death with a toilet seat,,,
 
2007-02-09 03:54:17 AM
BuckinKaeding

You can get anything you want at Alices restaurant, excepting Alice.
 
2007-02-09 03:56:01 AM
mikaloyd

Sounds good.
 
2007-02-09 03:56:07 AM
palin88: Theft of property is still ok here as long as the police claim the guy had drugs.

True, but if no drugs are found/planted, and the courts find you innocent, life goes on like nothing ever happened. And few cops are dumb enough to say "we found drugs in this guys car. But we crushed the car before we photographed the location of the drugs, so there's no evidence that it was ever in his car. And we 'tested' the drugs, to make sure they were real, so we don't have the drugs either. But we found drugs in his car!"

In this guys case, the police looked for "a Shogun which was seen speeding away from the scene". Note that the police had not seen the guy in this car, they had not seen any tires in the car, and they had not seen this car parked at the dumping site. Furthermore, they did not check the back for any tire marks, pieces of an old tire, or any proof whatsoever that any tires had ever been transported within the car.

So although I do see your point, the situation is too different to make a valid comparison.
 
2007-02-09 03:59:40 AM
Nuts, who to root for? Out of control city government, or out of control litterers?
 
2007-02-09 04:00:38 AM
pnjunction: In summary, your system might be alot further from perfect than you think.

I know it's imperfect, just look at yesterday's thread about the 10 year old being arrested and charged as an adult for "wanting" to pull the fire alarm.

But then again, we don't have our vehicles destroyed simply because we were seen driving away from a spot where tires were found beside the road.
 
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