If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(SFGate)   The coolest picture of a Tanzanian police officer lighting a bonfire made of confiscated rifles you'll see today   (sfgate.com) divider line 228
    More: Spiffy  
•       •       •

31833 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Jan 2007 at 7:45 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



228 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2007-01-24 07:46:54 AM  
That's a lot of rifles!
 
2007-01-24 07:47:23 AM  
Meh..ive seen more.
 
2007-01-24 07:47:32 AM  
bang!

bangbang!

uh oh.
 
2007-01-24 07:49:00 AM  
Hope they're unloaded!
 
2007-01-24 07:49:57 AM  
They forgot the caption: "What do you mean it was my job to unload them? That was your job!"
 
2007-01-24 07:51:11 AM  
Thats the saddest thing Ive seen all year. :-(

Now how are they gona defend themselves? Spears and rocks?
 
2007-01-24 07:51:30 AM  
As a lover of fire and peace; I'm glad to see this. As someone who admires a well made rifle this makes me extraordinarily sad. There some real classic antiques in that pile, including my sentimental favorite, the M1 Garand. Maybe next time they should round them up and double thier GNP by selling them to US collectors.
 
2007-01-24 07:51:55 AM  
That isn't spiffy, it's sick.

What kind of a sicko country would grant the government a monopoly on force? Haven't we learned from the past 100 years that when you do that, you make it much easier for the government to murder people?
 
2007-01-24 07:54:18 AM  
dittybopper [TotalFark]

That isn't spiffy, it's sick.

What kind of a sicko country would grant the government a monopoly on force? Haven't we learned from the past 100 years that when you do that, you make it much easier for the government to murder people?


1. America.
2. No, not quite yet.
 
2007-01-24 07:54:36 AM  
Looks like a stock photo.
 
2007-01-24 07:55:09 AM  
That's aching for a photoshop contest
 
2007-01-24 07:56:51 AM  
Headline should read: The dumbest gottdamn picture you'll see all day.

Those that beat their swords into plowshares, will plow for those of us that don't.
 
2007-01-24 07:57:26 AM  
I wonder how they got all the rifles to stand up so perfectly in line.
 
2007-01-24 07:57:31 AM  
Hooray for dictatorships! Remember, we have a strict non-interference rule. It's like a directive. It's our prime rule. We're not allowed to talk to them until they develop equivalent technology, like warp capability nukes.
 
2007-01-24 07:58:22 AM  
What a grand display, the structures are probably hollow.
 
2007-01-24 07:59:15 AM  
would have been more profitable to have scrapped them. But you guys forget they are a Communist nation in name (or at least a socialist). Of course they hate guns :p
 
2007-01-24 08:00:11 AM  
It's a Michael Moore wet dream - sick and gross.
 
2007-01-24 08:03:02 AM  
dittybopper: Haven't we learned from the past 100 years that when you do that, you make it much easier for the government to murder people?

Yeah, if there is one thing to be learned from the last 100 years of African history its that small arms scattered around the place is good for stability, development and conservation.
 
2007-01-24 08:03:17 AM  
Will someone think of the Mosins? And the Mausers? *sniff*

I mean, really... I don't see AKs, ARs, SKSs... seems mostly like old rifles. Prolly more useful for beating someone than "real violence". After all, an SKS is dirt cheap and so much more useful in anything under 200 yards.

-MT
 
2007-01-24 08:04:18 AM  
Looks like a lot of classics in that pile. They could of made a mint exporting and selling them to the USA.

2k guns, even at $80/pop would be $160k. M1 Garands start at $400 for a sucky one, so it'd likely be more.

Still, I shed a tear at the loss.
 
2007-01-24 08:06:51 AM  
That's not how you fire a rifle.
 
2007-01-24 08:08:37 AM  
Good riddance. There are way too many guns in this world.
 
2007-01-24 08:10:34 AM  
The "previous" pic from that webpage shows the result.
 
2007-01-24 08:11:31 AM  
dittybopper: What kind of a sicko country would grant the government a monopoly on force?

Every country ever that has a government.

/it's called a police force.
 
2007-01-24 08:11:33 AM  
Is that Saddam, two pics on? Whats he doing in Argentina?

Very strange, very strange indeed
 
2007-01-24 08:13:02 AM  
MTechnik: I mean, really... I don't see AKs, ARs, SKSs... seems mostly like old rifles. Prolly more useful for beating someone than "real violence". After all, an SKS is dirt cheap and so much more useful in anything under 200 yards.

A dirty cheap SKS is likely still the annual income of those handing these on ($300 per capita income) and with the porious border with Rwanda and Burundi I would guess more then a few of those have seen "real violence" that we would have trouble wrapping our mind around.
 
2007-01-24 08:14:51 AM  
12inpianist: Hooray for dictatorships!

This is Tanzania. Tanzania is one of the relatively few stable African democracies, which is especially surprising given the region where they live. They elect a president, prime minister, and a roughly 300 person legislature.

dittybopper: Haven't we learned from the past 100 years that when you do that, you make it much easier for the government to murder people?

Africa has spent that time learning the opposite lesson. Rwanda, Darfur, Somalia, all have been prosecuted primarily by militia and gangs, not the respective governments. It's not always the case that the first thing tyrants do is take away guns, sometimes they give away guns, and then point the majority populace in the direction of someone they can vent their anger on.
 
2007-01-24 08:16:28 AM  
They should have just varnished the whole thing and sold it as art to some rich couple in New York. Then fed the whole country for a year.
 
2007-01-24 08:16:45 AM  
Think of all the small penises those rifles could compensate for.
 
2007-01-24 08:23:05 AM  
Yeah, if there is one thing to be learned from the last 100 years of African history its that small arms scattered around the place is good for stability, development and conservation.

That's too many small arms in the wrong hands and not enough in the right hands.

Besides, while you'll get fighting, you genererally don't get Cambodia style massacres until the victims have been disarmed. Once that's done, the actual slaughter can take place with machetes if they choose.
 
2007-01-24 08:24:42 AM  
Dear Sir,

I am Mr. Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, President of Tanzania. I have urgent and very confidential business proposition for you. On January 22, 2007, I have come into possessing large quantity of two thousand slightly singed rifles...
 
2007-01-24 08:28:22 AM  
Every government genocide was preceded by gun confiscation.

Innocents Betrayed
 
2007-01-24 08:31:14 AM  
miracledirt: Greetings in the name of God, and a golf clap for the 419 spoof.
 
2007-01-24 08:31:15 AM  
Pic of Burning Guns Sparks Flamewar. Film at 11.
 
2007-01-24 08:36:03 AM  
This is a good idea. We should burn cars to stop drunk driving.
 
2007-01-24 08:39:24 AM  
MTECK


Will someone think of the Mosins? And the Mausers? *sniff*


my sentiments exactly, tek
 
R
2007-01-24 08:39:26 AM  
What kind of a sicko country would grant the government a monopoly on force? Haven't we learned from the past 100 years that when you do that, you make it much easier for the government to murder people?

I know, right? With citizens not having the right to bear arms, countries today like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have become ravaged wastelands from this horrendous small arms monopoly by their respective governments. Check out the aftermath from such restrictions:

Japan
upload.wikimedia.org

South Korea
upload.wikimedia.org

Taiwan
upload.wikimedia.org

Oh the cruel horror of banning citizens from possessing weapons. Will we not learn from our mistakes?!?!?!
 
2007-01-24 08:42:33 AM  
Predalien FTW.
 
2007-01-24 08:42:42 AM  
bbphotova: Every government genocide was preceded by gun confiscation.

And private militia run genocide was proceeded by wide scale weapon distribution.
 
2007-01-24 08:43:23 AM  
R: Check out the aftermath from such restrictions:

Good point. I wouldn't trust any of those people with a gun, either.
 
2007-01-24 08:43:38 AM  
-WTF with these responses!? Yeah that's the problem with Africa, not enough people are armed. Use your brains instead of relying on ideology, guys...
 
2007-01-24 08:43:45 AM  
...shortly thereafter, the rounds began cooking off.


/comments too
 
2007-01-24 08:44:19 AM  
"1. America.
2. No, not quite yet."

(cough)waco(cough)
 
2007-01-24 08:44:34 AM  
Yeah R, because in the last century, AMERICANS WITH RIFLES beat the shiat out of them until they started respecting human rights and individual freedom.

Before that, not so much.
 
2007-01-24 08:48:19 AM  
R wins the thread.

Iefande Just admit that everyone having guns in poor countries is just a recipe for disaster.
 
2007-01-24 08:48:29 AM  
2007-01-24 07:56:51 AM UpTheIrons

Those that beat their swords into plowshares, will plow for those of us that don't.


See people think that because that whole verse is badly mistanslated. The original is:

"For they shall beat their swords into plowshares because, when you hit a mn with a plowshare, he motherfarking KNOWS he's been hit"
 
2007-01-24 08:49:06 AM  
www.travelchinaguide.com
 
2007-01-24 08:51:42 AM  
LavenderWolf: Just admit that everyone having guns in poor countries is just a recipe for disaster.

Poor people are immoral.
 
2007-01-24 08:51:58 AM  
All I want to know is: Where are the marshmallows?
 
2007-01-24 08:52:25 AM  
lefande: Yeah R, because in the last century, AMERICANS WITH RIFLES beat the shiat out of them until they started respecting human rights and individual freedom.

Americans with rifles beat the shiat out of Taiwan? Did I oversleep and miss that war?
 
2007-01-24 08:53:51 AM  
LavenderWolf

Because black poor people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves?

There sure are a lot of people who agree with you on that one.

www.a-human-right.com
 
2007-01-24 08:58:55 AM  
Nuuu: Americans with rifles beat the shiat out of Taiwan? Did I oversleep and miss that war?

Yeah, I think I missed the time we fought against South Korea too.
 
2007-01-24 09:01:51 AM  
I hate people.
 
2007-01-24 09:02:19 AM  
Nuuu

I really don't think you want to make an argument that South Korea and Taiwan are batsions of freedom and democracy.

image.guardian.co.uk

http://www.nearlygood.com/video/koreanriot.html

www.chinadaily.com.cn


By then again, it doesn't appear that your argument has anything to do with freedom and democracy.

It is about control of the underclasses.
 
2007-01-24 09:03:34 AM  
R - you DO make a good point. i'm an english professor living in south korea ... this is a country with compulsory military service and there are no guns on the streets. even police rarely carry guns. the dudes who change the cash draws in ATMs carry those non-lethal pistols that fire a chunk of metal which would hurt like crazy, but definitely not kill. i can't remember when was the last time i heard of a gun related death here.

korea's far from a perfect society ... these people can't drive for crap and they're dangerous behind the wheel of a car. but it's a quite civil place to live.

japan is even more so!!

btw, the picture you posted is cheongye river development in seoul. a very new development and a popular place. i go there often.

thanks for posting it.

/say no to guns
//guns do kill people
 
2007-01-24 09:03:38 AM  
dittybopper

That isn't spiffy, it's sick.

What kind of a sicko country would grant the government a monopoly on force? Haven't we learned from the past 100 years that when you do that, you make it much easier for the government to murder people?


Yeah, cos if there's one thing that Africa needs it's more arms in the hands of ordinary people, then they can form militias and defend themselves from the evil tyranny of government.

Dumbass.
 
2007-01-24 09:04:16 AM  
LavenderWolf: I wonder how they got all the rifles to stand up so perfectly in line.

They're probably military surplus rifles.
 
2007-01-24 09:05:49 AM  
Nuuu: Americans with rifles beat the shiat out of Taiwan? Did I oversleep and miss that war?

Dullard, I think he means the war against South Korea and the resulting US victory over Napleon.
 
2007-01-24 09:07:16 AM  
Dirtybopper own3d this thread with his trolling skills.
 
2007-01-24 09:07:33 AM  
R: I know, right? With citizens not having the right to bear arms, countries today like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have become ravaged wastelands from this horrendous small arms monopoly by their respective governments. Check out the aftermath from such restrictions:

Looks to me like they now have severe overpopulation problems. Hey, I know what might solve that...
 
2007-01-24 09:08:04 AM  
lefande: I really don't think you want to make an argument that South Korea and Taiwan are batsions of freedom and democracy.

Have you ever been there? Taiwan used to be a sham democracy, but in the last 20 years or so it's become a modern one. What exactly makes Taiwan not free or democratic?
 
2007-01-24 09:08:33 AM  
Rounding up rifles won't do anything to quell most of the violence in sub-Saharan Africa.

That won't happen until they can get rid of the machetes, and that will never happen.

Just wall off the whole continent for 50 years and deal with whoever is left alive.
 
2007-01-24 09:11:45 AM  
Scutter: Looks to me like they now have severe overpopulation problems.

Actually, Japan is starting to gain the under-population issue that Europe has- net population reduction. South Korea's economic growth is moving it in that direction as well.
 
2007-01-24 09:12:58 AM  
Paedophile_Deluxe

Well, certainly compared to the PRC, it is. Its a good thing the PRC doesn't overrun Taiwan and South Korea and further deprive them of their rights.

I wonder what keeps that from happening?

Oh yeah, I forgot.

AMERICANS WITH RIFLES
 
2007-01-24 09:14:24 AM  
lefande [TotalFark]

LavenderWolf

Because black poor people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves?

There sure are a lot of people who agree with you on that one.


Holy shiat are you ever reaching on that one. Because I think gun control in Africa would curb violence, I'm racist? Well how about this. YOU sir are racist, because since you want all black people in Africa to own guns, you want them to die by them. Two can play at the mud throwing game.
 
2007-01-24 09:14:43 AM  
I DNRTFA
I'd be more concerned about gunpowder residue and the possibility of some id10t missing the bullets in some of the guns. I'd hate to get shot from an accident of that sort.
 
2007-01-24 09:17:16 AM  
lefande: I wonder what keeps that from happening?

Oh yeah, I forgot.

AMERICANS WITH RIFLES


So if US citizens had to register .45s then Chine would inade South Korea or....?

You know, somethings just aren't about you.
 
2007-01-24 09:28:46 AM  
Gun control sucks - if we didn't have guns, and the government tried to oppress us, I wouldn't be able to be a hero, get out of my basement and fight the jackbooted stormtroopers singlehandedly using my large cache of weapons and ammunition.

^ the logic of gun advocates.
Look, Americans are already being oppressed, and I've not seen any principled armed uprisings against agents of the government (thugs shooting cops when they get busted don't count). Even if some of us do decide enough is enough, how do you think you're going to fare against our country's well trained military?

Next up - less guns, less death due to guns. Do you understand the maths here? If there are no guns, nobody can be shot. This is very very simple.

Only Americans think that it's ok to summarily execute burglars btw, so don't bring that up.
 
2007-01-24 09:33:55 AM  
mister aj

Sure, you would just be brutalized by anyone bigger and stronger than you.

I'm sure you remember getting beat up for your lunch money by some mouth breather in your gun-free school. Wasn't that fun?
 
2007-01-24 09:36:59 AM  
UpTheIrons

Those that beat their swords into plowshares, will plow for those of us that don't.

That may be the sickest thing I've heard all week. You're not a failed Austrian artist by any chance, are you?
/Godwin!
 
2007-01-24 09:39:52 AM  
Dear Sir,

I am Mr. Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, President of Tanzania. I have urgent and very confidential business proposition for you. On January 22, 2007, I have come into possessing large quantity of two thousand slightly singed rifles...


Best post so far.
 
2007-01-24 09:41:27 AM  
Iefande

So children should bring guns to school and shoot bullies?
 
2007-01-24 09:42:20 AM  
Africa has spent that time learning the opposite lesson. Rwanda, Darfur, Somalia, all have been prosecuted primarily by militia and gangs, not the respective governments. It's not always the case that the first thing tyrants do is take away guns, sometimes they give away guns, and then point the majority populace in the direction of someone they can vent their anger on.

Don't forget that (in the case of Darfur) the government also did everything they could to PREVENT the victims from owning guns. They set up strict criteria that excluded many of these people from owning guns, and even those who could were restricted to less than 20 rounds of ammunition per year, not anywhere near enough to become proficient in firing the weapon, let alone having any left to actually use it for self-defense.

You are right that the government then proceeded to violate their own laws by giving the Janjaweed as many guns and as many rounds of ammunition as they could, but this was only effective because they systematicallly disarmed the "unwanted" population first. If the victims could shoot back, the Janjaweed would certainly have a more difficult task in slaughtering them.

But hey, they have the Blue Helmets to protect them!
 
2007-01-24 09:43:03 AM  
mister aj: when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.
 
2007-01-24 09:43:15 AM  
I'm sure you remember getting beat up for your lunch money by some mouth breather in your gun-free school. Wasn't that fun?
Actually, no. It was a gun-free school, but there weren't many mouth breathers. Got into a few scraps though, never lost my lunch money.
That's the factual account.

The fictional account:
When I was 14, the schoolyard bully gave me a wedgy, pushed me against the wall and demanded I hand over my lunch money. Fortunately, as I turned round to hand it over, he failed to notice that what I had in my hand was in fact a Glock. I yelled "Freeze motherfarker, you're dealing with a Real American", and popped a cap in his head. I never got bullied again, all the girls idolised me, I was admired by all as basically the coolest guy in the whole world and I never got arrested for murder - this was Texas. I think we can all agree that justice was done. Due process of law for criminals is for liberal pussies.

The moral of the story - there are other ways of dealing with problematic people than by killing them. Any number of weapons, including your bare firsts, are effective without being quite so lethal as a gun is.
 
2007-01-24 09:45:30 AM  
Kids with guns aren't bullied. Therefore, no shooting necessary.

www.olegvolk.net
 
2007-01-24 09:45:38 AM  
LavenderWolf
So children should bring guns to school and shoot bullies?
Not if you live in the liberal lala land of Arizona. Apparently murder is illegal there, damn socialists.
 
2007-01-24 09:46:40 AM  
This has been a very entertaining thread.

With:

Predalien: That's not how you fire a rifle.

and:

Scutter: LavenderWolf: I wonder how they got all the rifles to stand up so perfectly in line.

They're probably military surplus rifles.


winning the thread going away.

/thanks for the wakeup call
 
2007-01-24 09:48:38 AM  
mister aj: Next up - less guns, less death due to guns. Do you understand the maths here? If there are no guns, nobody can be shot. This is very very simple.

Yeah, it's very simple. Why don't the British go all the way and outlaw crime?
 
2007-01-24 09:50:05 AM  
www.utc.fr

Bet they didn't count on this guy!
 
2007-01-24 09:50:38 AM  
mister aj:
Americans are already being oppressed, and I've not seen any principled armed uprisings against agents of the government

If it gets to the point where your 2nd Amendment rights are the only bastion between you and tyranny, you are pretty much farked... shoulda defended your other rights more vigorously.
 
2007-01-24 09:52:23 AM  
Even if some of us do decide enough is enough, how do you think you're going to fare against our country's well trained military?
Well, the Iraqi's seem to be doing a good job of it...
 
2007-01-24 09:52:43 AM  
Americans with rifles also invented margerine, rubber, and happiness.
 
2007-01-24 09:52:53 AM  
lefande

Right, because right now, we need guns in school. Never mind that children in 1934 were about a hundred thousand times as well behaved as the children of today.

Kids DO bring guns to school now, and people get shot.
 
2007-01-24 09:54:22 AM  
Wow! Gives a whole no meaning to the term "small arms fire".
 
2007-01-24 09:54:37 AM  
Yeah, it's very simple. Why don't the British go all the way and outlaw crime?
I know what you're saying, and will respond to you rather than the person who just parroted "only outlaws will have guns" ... I hate contentless unoriginal posts.
"there are no guns" was hyperbolic of me, just trying to sketch out a correlation. One thing I'm sure of is that there are and will continue to be far far fewer guns in circulation in the UK. You can obtain guns in the UK, but due to it being illegal for the vast majority of law-abiding people to own and distribute them, it's far far harder - therefore, less guns in circulation. You can't just rob a gunstore or a gun owner, or hijack regularly shipped supplies.
 
2007-01-24 09:54:39 AM  
Wait a second, I thought the British outlawed all the guns and that's why they don't have any crime there.

Shooting hits spot as networking tool

This also leads me to believe that there's some use for guns other than crime. That can't be.
 
2007-01-24 09:57:32 AM  
This also leads me to believe that there's some use for guns other than crime. That can't be.
Yup, which is why it's still legal to obtain weapons which are good for sport, but very impractical to go and murder someone with or hold up a shop. That said, I'd probably have grudging admiration for any guy who committed a crime with a lightweight sporting rifle, those things require a certain amount of patience to shoot straight. Maybe an assassination ...
 
2007-01-24 09:57:59 AM  
LavenderWolf

Never mind that children in 1934 were about a hundred thousand times as well behaved as the children of today.

You now have the causation figured out.

Kids DO bring guns to school now, and people get shot.

Thats all because of video games, according your camp.
 
2007-01-24 09:58:54 AM  
mister aj: You can obtain guns in the UK, but due to it being illegal for the vast majority of law-abiding people to own and distribute them, it's far far harder - therefore, less guns in circulation. You can't just rob a gunstore or a gun owner, or hijack regularly shipped supplies.

But it is possible, and it happens.

Christening party killer stabbed woman to death two weeks later

This kid stabbed someone two weeks after he shot someone. It sounds like he doesn't care what weapon he uses as long as he gets to kill someone. I don't think keeping him from getting a gun would have made any difference.
 
2007-01-24 10:00:07 AM  
mister aj: Yup, which is why it's still legal to obtain weapons which are good for sport, but very impractical to go and murder someone with or hold up a shop. That said, I'd probably have grudging admiration for any guy who committed a crime with a lightweight sporting rifle, those things require a certain amount of patience to shoot straight. Maybe an assassination ...

I don't think a guy who holds up a liquor store is very respectful of the law. I don't think he's going to pay much attention to gun control.
 
2007-01-24 10:03:02 AM  
R

What kind of a sicko country would grant the government a monopoly on force? Haven't we learned from the past 100 years that when you do that, you make it much easier for the government to murder people?

I know, right? With citizens not having the right to bear arms, countries today like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have become ravaged wastelands from this horrendous small arms monopoly by their respective governments. Check out the aftermath from such restrictions:


I didn't say it was inevitable, just that it was much easier.

Besides, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan have all had problems in the past with their governments taking liberties with the lives of the population, that would have been mitigated or not happened at all if there had been a significant number of armed citizens.

Japan is an especially bad example to use.
 
2007-01-24 10:04:44 AM  
lefande

Quit pulling shiat out of your ass. I've never voted for the Democratic party, because I don't live in the US. None of the major parties here (Canada) have reasoned that video games are causing our youth violence. If they do, I can vote for another party without worrying about my rights being curbed.


Keep trying.
 
2007-01-24 10:06:31 AM  
I don't think a guy who holds up a liquor store is very respectful of the law. I don't think he's going to pay much attention to gun control.
Please reread what I've been saying - yes, you can obtain guns illegally, and this hypothetical guy would probably want to. It's just a lot harder to do so where gun control affects everyone - illegal guns being shipped into the country are more likely to get intercepted where customs officers don't expect any guns to be being shipped, and there are far less legal gun owners/distributors in country to rob.

I'm not trying to maintain that it's impossible to get guns for commission of a crime in the UK, just that it's significantly harder than in the US.
 
2007-01-24 10:08:29 AM  
Useless. These guns were all "voluntarily surrendered" by their owners. So they got a bunch of antique 22s that were prevously used to kill garden pests. I don't see any assault rifles in the pile, and I would bet my left nut that not a single criminal surrendered his weapon.

Roaming gangs are still armed, but law-abiding citizens will be defenseless against garden pests (and roaming gangs). Congratulations dipshiats.
 
2007-01-24 10:09:58 AM  
mister aj: I'm not trying to maintain that it's impossible to get guns for commission of a crime in the UK, just that it's significantly harder than in the US.

No, I understand what you're saying. It goes right along with this story:

Huge majority say civil liberty curbs a 'price worth paying' to fight terror
 
2007-01-24 10:10:12 AM  
LavenderWolf

I was refering to clueless liberal wackos in general, not just U.S. Democrats in particular.
 
2007-01-24 10:11:47 AM  
lefande

Well then it appears you have me confused with someone else. Because I've never supported anyone who tries to ban shiat because they don't agree with it. That's not a liberal doctrine, that's a US Democrat doctrine. Not the same. If you think Democrats are liberal, then you have a lot to learn about politics.
 
2007-01-24 10:11:57 AM  
GymnasiumPants

Any modern weapons were kept by the goverment to use against the former owners later.
 
2007-01-24 10:12:38 AM  
paygun
Privacy and freedom from unjust imprisonment are indisputably civil liberties, and that story distresses me as well. I'm not sure you can convince many people that the right to be able to shoot another person dead is a civil liberty though.
 
R
2007-01-24 10:13:33 AM  
dittybopper
I didn't say it was inevitable, just that it was much easier.

Well, yeah...okay. I agree in the validity of that statement. But...my pictures are so pretty!

paisleyavenger
btw, the picture you posted is cheongye river development in seoul. a very new development and a popular place. i go there often.

I was wondering where that pic was located. I just knew it was in Seoul. I definitely need to swing by Seoul one day.

/studying in Taipei now
 
2007-01-24 10:13:39 AM  
LavenderWolf: R wins the thread.

Are you reading a different thread? Could you possibly link it? Or has the definition of what "wins" been RADICALLY altered? Because R's stupid little photospread is like Johnny Cochran and the wookie
 
2007-01-24 10:13:58 AM  
www.newsgd.com

WE LIKE IT !!!
 
2007-01-24 10:14:44 AM  
LavenderWolf

The Democrats here call themselves "liberals".

The Nazis called themselves "socalists".

Its all fascism in disguise.
 
2007-01-24 10:15:09 AM  
mister aj: I'm not sure you can convince many people that the right to be able to shoot another person dead is a civil liberty though.

I don't believe murder is a right, but I do believe self defense is. We're going to live in a dangerous world regardless of how many laws we have on the books to keep us safe. I think relying on my government to look out for me is almost suicidal.
 
2007-01-24 10:15:58 AM  
aiiee wins teh intArnets and owes me a new MacBook Pro!

ZARDOZ!
 
2007-01-24 10:16:31 AM  
ComicBookGuy

I was referring to his initial posting in this thread.
 
R
2007-01-24 10:17:29 AM  
ComicBookGuy
Are you reading a different thread? Could you possibly link it? Or has the definition of what "wins" been RADICALLY altered? Because R's stupid little photospread is like Johnny Cochran and the wookie

I figured the pictures would get people to at least read my post. It worked.
 
2007-01-24 10:17:42 AM  
The moral of the story - there are other ways of dealing with problematic people than by killing them. Any number of weapons, including your bare firsts[sic], are effective without being quite so[sic] lethal as a gun is.

That is true. However, in certain situations (such as when a thug actually IS pointing a gun at you) then having a gun to defend yourself is quite prudent. That being said if you have a gun it isn't your only option (and certainly shouldn't be your first option in the majority of cases), but it is AN option if need be.
 
2007-01-24 10:19:02 AM  
That's not cool; It's tragic.
 
2007-01-24 10:23:02 AM  
mister aj: The moral of the story - there are other ways of dealing with problematic people than by killing them. Any number of weapons, including your bare firsts, are effective without being quite so lethal as a gun is.

I missed this before. Fists are certainly lethal if you're intent on killing someone.

Two more arrests made in Darlington County beating death"

It would be very hard for me to look someone in the eye and tell them that it's just too bad their loved one got beat to death and it's their own fault because he wasn't a good enough brawler to have lived.
 
2007-01-24 10:23:38 AM  
lefande

Well it is apparent you know fark all about politics, the political scale, Nazism, Socialism, and fascism. Wow, I learned that all in one post.


Liberalism supports, gasp, personal liberty. Since banning videogames goes directly against the protection of personal liberties, it is clearly a right-wing call. Lucky for you, that's still the Democrat party and you can keep hating them. The entire spectrum of US politics is shifted very far to the right, compared with other democratic nations.
 
2007-01-24 10:24:49 AM  
mister aj

"I'm not trying to maintain that it's impossible to get guns for commission of a crime in the UK, just that it's significantly harder than in the US."

Now I'm not sure I aggree there. I mean as Hollywood as taught us (and Hollywood has never steered me wrong before) in such great films as Snatch and Formula 51, it's easy to get a gun in the Uk.

All you have to do is find an easily accessable gangster with a funny accent who says things about fish & chips and bob being my uncle and BAM! Instant gun ownership. Course normally you gotta have that guy from that Transporter movie with you but hey. He seems like a cool dude.. he hung out with Sammy "Snakes On a Plane" J.

I mean after all it's in the movies so it must be true.
 
2007-01-24 10:27:14 AM  
Here's another sickening story, from Canada where the gun laws are more strict than the US:

Accused said he watched beating death: witness

There will certainly be more gun crimes with guns around. That doesn't much matter to that 13 year old girl that got beat to death with a wrench.
 
2007-01-24 10:29:52 AM  
img249.imageshack.us

At the most this will stop a little poaching by the poor. Still don't like to see gun grabs though.
 
2007-01-24 10:31:12 AM  
paygun
It would be very hard for me to look someone in the eye and tell them that it's just too bad their loved one got beat to death and it's their own fault because he wasn't a good enough brawler to have lived.
Bad scenario. Let's take away gun control, now both sides are armed, and the assailant is out to kill the victim. Assailant still wins, clearly - because he has his gun out ,because he's intending to kill the victim, who can't draw his gun faster than it takes the assailant to pull the trigger.

Both the original and upgraded scenario are shiatty situations, but at least in the original you have a chance of surviving - your fists can defend you against an attack, a gun can't defend you against a bullet. Unless you want to spend your whole time wandering around outside with your gun perpetually drawn so you might have the drop on anyone who is trying to kill you.
 
2007-01-24 10:32:20 AM  
LavenderWolf

lefande

Right, because right now, we need guns in school. Never mind that children in 1934 were about a hundred thousand times as well behaved as the children of today.

Kids DO bring guns to school now, and people get shot.


No, they don't. Oh, sure, you get the occasional school shooting, but did you know that more kids are killed each year in school bus accidents (26 in 2002, and usually somewhere around 20 per year) than are killed in school shootings (Worse year - 1999 - 14 killed, not including the perpetrators)? Most years, you get barely a handful of children killed in schools.

The fact is that in most years (but not all), more kids are killed playing sports than in school shootings.

School shootings are extremely rare events. That is why they get big news coverage. That makes it seem like they happen all the time, but they really don't. They aren't even a statistically significant subset of child murders.

Now, that doesn't help the parent of a kid killed in one of these shootings, but it does help us to make intelligent choices about security in schools. Would it make more sense for us to spend tens of thousands of dollars to purchase and man a metal detector at a school, or would that money be better spent buy new, safer buses, or upgrading the older ones, or buying new protective equipment for the football team? Perhaps tearing up the asphalt on the playground and replacing it with a softer surface?

The real answer to stopping school shootings is to simply allow those teachers who wish to carry a concealed weapon in school. The only people who would have to know specifically who is carrying is the teacher(s) who do it, and the administrator of the school. That way, no one who is opposed to this sort of thing has to have their delicate sensibilities hurt.

This would prevent some shootings, in that all school shooters do it for the attention. If they didn't do it for that, they would do it somewhere else more discreet. If you remove the potential for the payoff (ie., fame, even if it is notorious), you stop a lot of it before it happens.

Secondly, if you do have a situation where someone starts to open fire in a school, the armed teachers have the ability to at least through a major monkey wrench in the plans of the shooters. It is much harder to murder people when someone is shooting at you, as opposed to calmly shooting at unarmed people. Every police officer and military person who has ever been shot at will tell you that: It is much easier to score a bullseye at the range than when your target is shooting back at you.

As to whether armed teachers will 'escalate' the violence, I hardly see where that can be an issue. After all, if they need to use their firearm, students are already at grave risk of being killed. Fewer students and teachers would be killed in any potential crossfire than would be killed by someone coolly shooting unarmed victims.
 
2007-01-24 10:37:34 AM  
paygun

Stop with the stupid emotional appeals.

If you think every dumb thug on the streets should have a gun, and it will make the rest of us safer, then you have some serious issues.

Just because other weapons are also effective doesn't mean people are less dangerous with guns. Why not just carry a large knife if you think someone else will beat the shiat out of you? I did when I lived in a rough neighbourhood. It is legal to carry knives, but they must be secured to a belt and in a sheath, except small pocket knives (legal obviously) and switchblades/butterfly knives (illegal). Since it's about Canada I'd like to say that our current gun control system is farked.
 
2007-01-24 10:38:12 AM  
paisleyavenger: i can't remember when was the last time i heard of a gun related death here.

I can't remember the last time we had a gun related death here in North Dakota.

Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

Do you somehow believe that death by gun is somehow worse than death by knifing, beating, strangulation, defenestration, etc?

Mister aj: Next up - less guns, less death due to guns. Do you understand the maths here? If there are no guns, nobody can be shot. This is very very simple.

Then the suprising conclusion: More deaths due to knifings and clubbings, as well as a marked increase in violent crime and home invasions.

LavenderWolf: Kids DO bring guns to school now, and people get shot.

When my grandfather was in school, they'd frequently bring guns to school in order to go hunting/shooting afterwards. There are still a number of schools with on-grounds shooting clubs.

The problem is a combination of upbringing, failure to disclipine, and the disarmament of schools. That's right. I don't believe in 'weapon free zones', I have a tendency to call them 'victim disarmament zones'. At most I believe in controlled area where designated people have the arms, IE prison guards and court baliffs. These are backed up by searches and metal detectors.
 
2007-01-24 10:40:49 AM  
Anybody click "next" and see that little muslim kid beating himslef with an iron whip with the face of some dude blanked out on a painting?
If only all muslims can turn their rage toward themselves like this little dude...
 
2007-01-24 10:41:05 AM  
dittybopper

I didn't mean to imply that it was common. The facts are indisputable, however.

1) Some children bring guns to school.
2) Some of those children turn those guns against classmates.

More guns in student hands will NOT help the situation.
I agree that teachers should be able to arm themselves. I even think that should be mandatory, for at least a few teachers in every school to have a firearm, or have armed guards on school grounds. Children are the most precious thing in society, and they are worth protecting.
 
2007-01-24 10:42:30 AM  
R

dittybopper
I didn't say it was inevitable, just that it was much easier.

Well, yeah...okay. I agree in the validity of that statement. But...my pictures are so pretty!


You can doll up a syphalitic whore to look decent, doesn't mean I want to do her.

Seriously, at least as pertains to Japan and Taiwan (I'm not so sure about South Korea, but I suspect it is similar) there are restrictions on liberty and rights in both of those countries that I would find unacceptable in a place where I decided to live.

I'm not just talking about the ability to own firearms, either. I'm talking about things like due process, search and seizure procedures, restrictions on speech, restrictions on the use of private property, the lack of protection against self-incrimination, and things like that.

I'm not claiming that these places are dictatorships, by any means, but do have significantly fewer protections against the government in those countries than you have in the US (not that it's perfect here, either).
 
2007-01-24 10:43:45 AM  
Firethorn

I challenge you to find a public school withing 500 kilometres of me that has a shooting club. Your grandfather's school may have it, or even your own. They don't in most places.

So you think that all 8th graders should have guns?
 
2007-01-24 10:44:04 AM  
LavenderWolf

Liberalism supports, gasp, personal liberty.

Ben Franklin has been repeatedly quoted as saying "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"

Personal liberty starts with a right to defend yourself.

/I hate quotes like this without a primary reference, but it makes the point.
 
2007-01-24 10:45:03 AM  
Firethorn

I do agree that most of the problem lies in upbringing and failure to discipline though.
 
2007-01-24 10:49:35 AM  
lefande

Okay, so you went from telling me how I'm a dirty liberal who wants to ban videogames to someone who thinks liberty shouldn't be defended and that I think guns should be banned altogether.

I was in the military for a short time. I learned properly how to handle and use firearms of many kinds. I am trying to decide on what weapon I should buy for myself (just out of interest, not self-protection).

Kids shouldn't have guns.
Kids shouldn't be "defending their liberty."

Adults should be able to have guns should they so choose.

Adults should defend their liberty at all costs. And that's why I'm surprised the Right of the US hasn't sacked Washington for stealing their rights, that they claim to be so fond of.
 
2007-01-24 10:51:12 AM  
LavenderWolf: If you think every dumb thug on the streets should have a gun, and it will make the rest of us safer, then you have some serious issues.

No, my point is that criminals will have guns regardless of laws. Crime will still exist regardless of the legality of gun ownership.

I never said I thought we'd all be better off if criminals were armed, and you know it. You just can't admit that crime exists even without guns.
 
2007-01-24 10:52:22 AM  
LavenderWolf: If you think every dumb thug on the streets should have a gun, and it will make the rest of us safer, then you have some serious issues.

That's the thing though, we don't want it to be the 'dumb thug on the streets' with a gun. They have them already, generally speaking. If not they might be running around with a quiet knife, bat, or crowbar.

England's banned knives and other defensive tools, and it's not helping their crime rate. States in the USA that have passed CCW laws have found that they do decrease crime.

Who do we want armed? The people who are willing to take action, potentially lethal if necessary, to defend themselves and others from criminals. Those who have undergone background checks, training, and testing. Though Vermont doesn't have much problem with crime, and everybody there can legally CCW without a permit.

Attacking the tools doesn't work very well. We need to be going after the criminals.
 
2007-01-24 10:52:44 AM  
US Coups prevented by handguns to date: 0

US Citizens killed by handguns to date: man, who can count that high?

I'm still waiting for all you farkers to defend Democracy.
 
2007-01-24 10:54:05 AM  
Bad scenario. Let's take away gun control, now both sides are armed, and the assailant is out to kill the victim. Assailant still wins, clearly - because he has his gun out ,because he's intending to kill the victim, who can't draw his gun faster than it takes the assailant to pull the trigger.

You do have a point... but not a slam-dunk win. Say the assailant had a knife, or screwdriver, or crow bar, or any of the millions of everyday objects you could easily use to kill someone quickly. They'd still have a pretty good chance of killing the victim, armed or not, if they got the jump on them.

But that's a worst-case scenario in that it is no-win for the would-be victim regardless of whether they are armed or not. Sure, it happens, but guns are also used defensively two-million times a year in this country by some estimates, so clearly they have some utility in this regard.

Regardless of what laws you pass (even an all out ban on guns), criminals will still have guns. There are millions of criminals who legally can't possess guns TODAY who are armed, how are more laws going to disarm these people? They won't. They'll only disarm people like me, law abiding citizens who have no desire to commit any crime or kill anyone.

The only reason I own a gun is for self-defense, period. I've followed every law regarding the ownership of my gun. I don't have a permit to carry it concealed yet, so I don't carry it concealed (but I'm working on getting said permit.) How would it make you safer to make me LESS safe by taking away my gun? Unless you're planning on attacking me or my family, you have absolutely nothing to fear from my gun.
 
2007-01-24 10:54:47 AM  
R Apples and Oranges.
Westerners and Asians have such different mindsets the comparison is meaningless. Joseph Campbell's Mythology and the Individual comes to mind.
/oh, and boobies!
 
2007-01-24 10:54:51 AM  
mister aj: Bad scenario. Let's take away gun control, now both sides are armed, and the assailant is out to kill the victim. Assailant still wins, clearly - because he has his gun out ,because he's intending to kill the victim, who can't draw his gun faster than it takes the assailant to pull the trigger.

Not necessarily. Sheriff's Office: Man Slain in Self-Defense

Do I want daily life to be a regular series of gun battles? No. But gun laws will only disarm one side. I am rooting for the good guy, though. I have no problem with admitting that I might be biased because of that.
 
2007-01-24 10:57:35 AM  
LavenderWolf

Adults should be able to have guns should they so choose.

So, now guns are ok, but just as long as you aren't poor, black, young or non-American?

What about the Chinks and the Irish?

/I will stop beating up on you now.
 
2007-01-24 10:58:59 AM  
colovion:
That is true. However, in certain situations (such as when a thug actually IS pointing a gun at you) then having a gun to defend yourself is quite prudent.

How is that going to help you, if the guy is already pointing his gun at you?
Don't you think he'll be more likely to pull the trigger if it looks like you're reaching for your own weapon?
Although I guess if you have one of those slidey things up your sleeve a la Taxi Driver you might have a chance...
 
2007-01-24 10:59:53 AM  
Dansker: How is that going to help you, if the guy is already pointing his gun at you?
Don't you think he'll be more likely to pull the trigger if it looks like you're reaching for your own weapon?
Although I guess if you have one of those slidey things up your sleeve a la Taxi Driver you might have a chance...


You really think guns should be banned because someone might get the drop on you?
 
2007-01-24 11:03:46 AM  
paygun

I did farking admit that, you unobservant hack. The last thing we need is more kids with guns. I'm talking strictly about minors. Every adult (without a violent history) should be able to own a firearm if they so choose. People here are saying "Give all the kids guns, that way they'll shoot the people who would shoot up a school". Nevermind that guns can discharge without your intent. Or that kids are just stupid and irresponsible. Or that kids are emotional and throw temper tantrums over some really minor shiat. Nevermind all that, give them guns so we don't have to actually guard our children...
 
2007-01-24 11:05:08 AM  
lefande

You're not beating up on me. You're just spewing shiat that I'm responding to because I have the day off work and nothing better to do.

Never have I said take away the guns of the poor, the black, or the non-American. For one thing, I am poor and non-American. Retard.
 
2007-01-24 11:06:39 AM  
Oh, ok. when you said:

LavenderWolf: If you think every dumb thug on the streets should have a gun, and it will make the rest of us safer, then you have some serious issues.

I thought you were talking about thugs on the street, not children in schools.
 
2007-01-24 11:08:10 AM  
Firethorn

And where have I disagreed? Have I said "responsible adults can't be trusted with weapons" ?

These total idiots are saying that all children, children in high school at least, should be armed to prevent other children from killing them. Okay, the logic works until you actually think about the dangers of having two thousand guns in one building. Or just in the hands of kids who are too emotionally immature to be trusted with them.
 
2007-01-24 11:08:38 AM  
LavenderWolf

dittybopper

I didn't mean to imply that it was common. The facts are indisputable, however.

1) Some children bring guns to school.


True enough, but very rare.

2) Some of those children turn those guns against classmates.


Also true, but so exceedly rare an occurance that you can't even get an accurate statistic on it.

More guns in student hands will NOT help the situation.


I don't saying that was an option. Although, realistically, if more kids legally owned guns, you would have fewer crimes. The US Department of Justice found that kids who owned guns for sporting purposes were slightly less likely to become deliquent than those who didn't own guns, and far less likely to have run-ins with the law than those who owned illegal (ie., bought from the local crack dealer) guns.


I agree that teachers should be able to arm themselves. I even think that should be mandatory, for at least a few teachers in every school to have a firearm, or have armed guards on school grounds.


Armed guards aren't the solution: If I were a school shooter, the first person on my list would be the armed guard. Then I'd take his gun and ammo. The problem with an armed guard is that everyone knows who they are, and you can plan for that in advance. If you don't know who is or who isn't armed, you can't plan for it. That is why I think that only the school administrator, and those who are actually armed, know who is carrying. All of the other teachers, and especially the students, need to be unaware of who is armed and who isn't.


Children are the most precious thing in society, and they are worth protecting.


You don't need to tell me that:
img419.imageshack.us


However, I do object to people making sweeping policy decisions based solely on emotion, without looking at the actual facts of the matter.

Would metal detectors and armed guards prevent a shooting at a school? Maybe. Maybe not, as there are ways to get around that, and if the perpetrators plan in advance there are ways to nullify the effectiveness of such measures.

The real question is how much protection are we getting for that large increase in cost? Not much, it turns out. Several school shootings didn't actually happen *INSIDE* the school (which is where a metal detector and armed guards would be located). In addition, since they are such a rare event the likelyhood of it happening at any one particular school in any given year is so slim that you have a far better chance of winning a million bucks in the lottery.

Also, I have a real problem with my kid being habituated to going through a metal detector. With just about every other situation where one has to do that (airports, jobs, etc.) the choice is mandatory. If I don't want to go through one, I don't have to. I won't be able to take that flight, but I have the choice to drive, or take the train. If I work at a location where walking through a metal detector is mandatory, I can always quit and get a different job. School is mandatory. You don't have a choice (outside of home schooling, of course). Your child has to go, or you will be in trouble.

Getting a child used to what would be considered an unreasonable search and seizure to an adult is bad Juju: Those same children will grow up used to intrusions on their privacy, and won't know any better when the government (which consists of people who were forced to go through them also) makes random warrantless searches legal.

While I am using a slippery slope argument, I plead out of necessity on two grounds:
1. The slope is short.
2. Slippery slopes do exist in real life. One only has to look at the laws concerning gun ownership in the UK from 1900 to 2000 to see that.
 
2007-01-24 11:09:07 AM  
Who was the idiot that said arming children would be a good idea? Jesus.
 
2007-01-24 11:09:15 AM  
These threads always bring out the agressively retarded.
 
2007-01-24 11:10:10 AM  
paygun

I'm having like six arguments here, give me a break. You're quoting from different lines of conversation.

People are saying gun ownership should be MANDATORY. Believe it or not, most "dumb thugs on the street" I've met do NOT have guns. Have I met them all? No. But I don't think they should be forced to have one in the name of safety.
 
2007-01-24 11:10:18 AM  
LavenderWolf

I am poor and non-American retard.

OK, NO GUNS FOR YOU. NOT YOURS.
 
2007-01-24 11:11:21 AM  
paygun

lefande said it. Someone else backed him up, though I'm not diving back up for that one.
 
2007-01-24 11:12:33 AM  
Dansker

How is that going to help you, if the guy is already pointing his gun at you?
Don't you think he'll be more likely to pull the trigger if it looks like you're reaching for your own weapon?


Please explain to me how reaching for a gun in a holster in the small of my back looks different than me reaching for my wallet.

Take all the space and time you need.
 
2007-01-24 11:13:15 AM  
dittybopper
Do you know what the difference is in the Hawken Rifle that Cabellas sells and the "Traditions" brand that everyone else "Sportsmans Warehouse..." sells? Are they really worth the extra money?
 
2007-01-24 11:15:08 AM  
dittybopper

I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, I don't know what you're trying to tell me.
 
2007-01-24 11:17:40 AM  
Actually the only thing I can refute dittybopper is your point about the kids who responsibly use weapons in sportsmanly ways.

The kids who do that are generally MORE mature than others, in regards to weapons. If you just hand some kid a weapon, some kid who didn't grow up using one, no matter what training you give him he is still just some kid with a weapon, not a sportsman.
 
2007-01-24 11:20:12 AM  
Whoa, this thread is getting way too civil.

Somebody needs to spam some insults, or make wild and crazy claims, stat.
 
2007-01-24 11:20:18 AM  
Thanks to their Prime Minister, John Howard, Australia has outlawed guns and spent $500,000,000 over the last decade on a gun buy back program. There has been no decrease in gun crimes. It is not any harder to get a gun in a country that outlaws guns that it is anywhere else. The only people that are hurt are the law abiding citizens!
 
2007-01-24 11:23:36 AM  
Molavian is a cross-dressing, ghey for pay gun hater.
 
2007-01-24 11:23:56 AM  
klatubaradanikto

dittybopper
Do you know what the difference is in the Hawken Rifle that Cabellas sells and the "Traditions" brand that everyone else "Sportsmans Warehouse..." sells? Are they really worth the extra money?


Honestly, no. If you are interested in a Hawken, go to http://www.trackofthewolf.com and get the parts to put together an authentic Hawken. If you are reasonably handy, you will end up with a better rifle than you can buy from Cabelas or any other catalog.

As for me, I can't stand those new-fangled persuction guns. Give me a rock lock anyday:

img236.imageshack.us

img134.imageshack.us
 
2007-01-24 11:26:37 AM  
Molavian: Whoa, this thread is getting way too civil.

Somebody needs to spam some insults, or make wild and crazy claims, stat.


Shut up asslord.
 
2007-01-24 11:28:21 AM  
paygun

stfu nubcaek
 
2007-01-24 11:29:33 AM  
LavenderWolf: stfu nubcaek

I don't know what that is, but it sounds bad.
 
2007-01-24 11:29:46 AM  
Although I guess if you have one of those slidey things up your sleeve a la Taxi Driver you might have a chance...

I don't believe that would be legal. Then again, everything else in the movie was illegal (sometimes disturbingly so.) Frankly the movie hasn't aged well IMHO. It went from "creepy but cool" to "just plain creepy."

If they have the drop on you, it wouldn't matter what you are armed with. But they don't ALWAYS get the drop on you (and if you're paying attention to your surroundings it lessens their chances of being able to do so.)

Go down to "the hood" sometime and watch how people walk around. They don't walk, looking down "kicking rocks" (as a Detroit police officer so elequently said to me once) but they're looking around for possible threats. The whole point of doing so is to prevent anyone from getting the jump on them.
 
2007-01-24 11:30:43 AM  
paygun
Oh, it's bad.


Very bad.
 
2007-01-24 11:33:38 AM  
http://www.trackofthewolf.com site blocked at work, Figures. Thanks for the tip. I'm determined to try a muzzleloader next season and get in on the extra weeks with, hopefully, less traffic. Those Plug and play Hawkens look like more fun than the polymer rifles with scope mounts that are popular now. I'd love to find a cheap muzzleloader shotty to play around with maybe for turkeys this spring.
 
2007-01-24 11:34:51 AM  
LavenderWolf

Actually the only thing I can refute dittybopper is your point about the kids who responsibly use weapons in sportsmanly ways.

The kids who do that are generally MORE mature than others, in regards to weapons. If you just hand some kid a weapon, some kid who didn't grow up using one, no matter what training you give him he is still just some kid with a weapon, not a sportsman.


That isn't really refuting what I said. The DoJ found that kids who owned guns legally generally were in families where legal firearm ownership is the norm, and were socialized into the proper and legal ways to use a firearm.

Those who owned illegal firearms generally got them from street, not their families, and weren't socialized into the proper and legal uses of firearms.

Another 'counterintuitive' suggestion: Bring back shooting teams into schools, and firearms safety classes.

When I was in school, not really all that long ago, one of my classmates brough his shotgun into school to work on it in shop. Apparently, he had got snow in the muzzle while out hunting, and when he fired the barrel bulged near the muzzle. He want to cut the bulge out, and re-crown the muzzle. The shop teacher made him measure it 3 times to be sure it was still going to be legal length, but nobody raised an eyebrow about it.

That happened in 1983, back when crime was much higher than it is today. You know what we didn't have back then? Continuous 24 hour news coverage on cable. Back then, school shootings happened, but they didn't get the coverage that they got in the late 1990's (before the news media became more aware that they were actually making more shootings likely by making the shooters famous).
 
2007-01-24 11:40:34 AM  
This is hands down the best example I can find as to why EVERY mentally competent non-felon adult in the U.S. should carry a concealed weapon

An example in the Seattle Times

Quick synopsis for those who don't want to read: Middle of the day, an older man minding own business in shopping district of downtown Seattle is jumped by a complete nutjob who says he's going to kill someone. No provocation, no reason. As he is pinned on the ground, getting the shiat beat out of him, a large crowd of shoppers stand around and watch. The older man pulls out his concealed weapon and takes one shot, killing his attacker. Police come, ask some questions, and let the older man go home. He's never charged, and the media barely cover the story because it isn't the kind of blood and guts they look for to demonise guns and scare people.

Now what would you do in that situation? Call the police? They're at least 5 minutes away. Ask the crowd to help? No one did anything to help the assault. Ask the nutjob intent on breaking your skull open to stop? Yeah right. Guns do kill people, but in cases like this, they also save lives.

/getting my concealed carry this Friday.
//used to be a tv news producer
///didn't demonise guns
 
2007-01-24 11:41:09 AM  
Go down to "the hood" sometime and watch how people walk around. They don't walk, looking down "kicking rocks" (as a Detroit police officer so elequently said to me once) but they're looking around for possible threats. The whole point of doing so is to prevent anyone from getting the jump on them.

I moved from Houston almost a year ago and I still do that.
 
2007-01-24 11:49:00 AM  
klatubaradanikto

http://www.trackofthewolf.com site blocked at work, Figures. Thanks for the tip. I'm determined to try a muzzleloader next season and get in on the extra weeks with, hopefully, less traffic. Those Plug and play Hawkens look like more fun than the polymer rifles with scope mounts that are popular now. I'd love to find a cheap muzzleloader shotty to play around with maybe for turkeys this spring.


I will not touch one of those plastic abominations. They look horrid, probably shoot like crap, and aren't really muzzleloaders, except in the sense that yes, you do load them from the muzzle.

That isn't to say I don't have modern guns, I do. But the way I figure it if I am going to use a muzzleloader, I'm going to use a real one, not one that looks like my Remington 700ADL with a slightly thicker barrel. If I want to shoot a modern gun, I want all the convienences (like cartridges, zippy, flat shooting spitzers, etc.).

If I am going to shoot a muzzleloader, I'm going to use a lead ball, with real black powder (GOEX FF), pillow ticking patches, and a flintlock. I could live with a sidelock percussion gun if I *HAD* to, but I don't have to so I won't.

That is the only real way to preserve the romance of muzzleloading: Use one like they used to use, and use it in the same way.

There is an art to shooting, and most especially to shooting a flintlock. There are numerous little tricks to making them shoot in all sorts of weather, tricks that have been mostly forgotten over the centuries, but some of us still remember ;-)
 
2007-01-24 11:53:39 AM  
Dittybopper

An excellent suggestion, I agree. I still don't think kids should just be able to walk to school carrying a gun, keep it in his possession, and use it if he deems necessary.
 
2007-01-24 12:00:43 PM  
Since this is a Dittybopper thread
www.stewartsattic.com
When the Grey Hair is disarmed, Magua will eat his heart. Before he dies, Magua will put his children under the knife, so the Grey Hair will know his seed is wiped out forever.
 
2007-01-24 12:03:40 PM  
Skanklips

Since this is a Dittybopper thread
www.stewartsattic.com
When the Grey Hair is disarmed, Magua will eat his heart. Before he dies, Magua will put his children under the knife, so the Grey Hair will know his seed is wiped out forever.


I'm touched. You remembered!
 
2007-01-24 12:06:00 PM  
some schmuck statement
Even if some of us do decide enough is enough, how do you think you're going to fare against our country's well trained military?

Drunken Grammaton Cleric's Reply
Well, the Iraqi's seem to be doing a good job of it...


Best comeback I have seen in a long while! Proves the point that if you confuse the libtards on their high horse or beat them at their own game the only thing that they do is ignore ya...apathy is punishment in their eyes.

good work!
 
2007-01-24 12:06:50 PM  
I understand NRA freedom
but
why does someone needa Glock?
 
2007-01-24 12:06:57 PM  
LavenderWolf

Dittybopper

An excellent suggestion, I agree. I still don't think kids should just be able to walk to school carrying a gun, keep it in his possession, and use it if he deems necessary.


I don't think even the most ardent Second Amendment supporter would suggest that.
 
2007-01-24 12:12:25 PM  
dittybopper

You think wrong, then! That's exactly the argument I was having. Some dick making that assertion.
 
2007-01-24 12:13:53 PM  
expobill

why does someone needa Glock?

Because they go bang when you want them to and don't go bang when you don't want them to.

Guns have no sporting purpose for me. Guns have no collector interest for me. Guns have no "symbolic of my freedom and rights as an American citizen" purpose for me.

I carry guns solely for those rare occasions where there are dangerous and violent criminals intent on doing harm to me or someone else and need to be stopped right then and there.

So far for me, this has only involved unholstering, and once or twice pointing, but no shooting.
 
2007-01-24 12:16:29 PM  
LavenderWolf & dittybopper

why dont you exchane phone#s
or better yet a duel!
/ almost noon...
 
2007-01-24 12:16:43 PM  
Expobill
You don't NEED a Glock. Glock is only one of the many wonderful firearms manufactures. You can get a Ruger, Smith&Weston, Colt, even Keltec. All of which will do what someone hopefully will never have to do but needs to be able to do when the need arise. That would be kill some slime ball before he hurts someone you love.

Expect Tanzania to fall into a genocidal war within a few years just like many other African countries.
 
2007-01-24 12:17:19 PM  
"exchange"
 
2007-01-24 12:18:05 PM  
I cant fire a stove!
 
2007-01-24 12:19:48 PM  
Guns.

I have some. Some people don't. That's all I have to say about that.
 
2007-01-24 12:19:54 PM  
expobill

I don't see how you meant that bit about exchanging phone numbers. Neither of us is completely in the other's camp, but we aren't really arguing either.
 
2007-01-24 12:20:48 PM  
or a walterPPK!

shaken not stir-
 
2007-01-24 12:22:32 PM  
well someone should duel!

we have not had one since 1898!
 
2007-01-24 12:24:22 PM  
How about 'tautologies make dumb slogans'

laebshade: mister aj: when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

/gun owner
 
2007-01-24 12:29:31 PM  
Expobill,
Duels are so Eurotrash... we Americans do DriveBy's. There's less chance of the other side returning fire.
 
2007-01-24 12:30:58 PM  
expobill

LavenderWolf & dittybopper

why dont you exchane phone#s


I'd consider it, but I'd only get about 75% of LavenderWolf's number.
 
2007-01-24 12:33:11 PM  
Reminds me of the travesty that happened in Austrailia.

They confiscated every rifle/shotgun (handguns were already illegal) capable of holding more than 2 shots and cut them up. Nevermind that it was the only thing youhad left that belonged to your grandfather. Nevermind that you only used it keep the dingoes away from your sheep. Nevermind that its a collector's piece worth several thousand USD. You had to turn it in and they cut it up. No "ifs", "ands", or "buts."

Sheer asshattery.

/gun owner
//NRA member
///former shooting instructor
 
2007-01-24 12:50:02 PM  
herne
A dirty cheap SKS is likely still the annual income of those handing these on ($300 per capita income) and with the porious border with Rwanda and Burundi I would guess more then a few of those have seen "real violence" that we would have trouble wrapping our mind around.


I had heard tales of $25 AKs available in iraq on black markets... (and I don't doubt them) but I did some more searching and I found:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070116/cm_csm/yfeingold

Where it says:
Somalia's weak transitional government is trying to reestablish itself as the representative government for the people of Somalia. By all accounts, however, Somalis have not yet rallied behind that government. In fact, gun prices in Mogadishu are reported to be at an all-time high because of steep demand.

So, yer right there.

However, take all them rifles, send them to SamCo Global. Let SamCo offer a fair price for them. Take the money that samco will pay and use it to feed refugees.

I know I'd pay for a nice milsurp. Oh yeah, I have already.

-MT
 
2007-01-24 12:53:48 PM  
"Blessed are the meek, for we shall inherit them"
 
2007-01-24 01:06:26 PM  
You don't NEED a Glock. Glock is only one of the many wonderful firearms manufactures.

I don't now how "wonderful" Glocks are... they do have a tendency to give you a bit more bang than you were counting on (kaBOOM!) Granted any gun will do that if you don't maintain them, but Glocks seem to be more prone to this than others are. They're great when they work, but they aren't foolproof by any means.
 
2007-01-24 01:13:20 PM  
i would like to invite people to consider the disturbing thesis that widespread ownership of guns is not intrinsically good or bad, that its effects and causes vary from society to society, and that varying levels of freedom and control concerning firearms are a rational response to this.

don't bleed out your eyes or anything but you might want to consider it.
 
2007-01-24 01:14:56 PM  
colovion: I don't now how "wonderful" Glocks are... they do have a tendency to give you a bit more bang than you were counting on (kaBOOM!) Granted any gun will do that if you don't maintain them, but Glocks seem to be more prone to this than others are. They're great when they work, but they aren't foolproof by any means.

Aw, dammit. Now you're going to get the Glock lovers out in force, telling you how they've fired 20,000 handloads through their Glocks with no problems.

...unsupported chamber...hexagonal barrel leading...blah...hard cast bullets...factory loads only...
 
2007-01-24 01:14:59 PM  
lefande

what those pictures show is that south korea puts up with a lot more crazy shiat from its unions, students, and other politically active groups than we do.
 
2007-01-24 01:15:00 PM  
Arm the children.

I can't stop laughing.
 
2007-01-24 01:20:46 PM  
Isn't this the Tanzania next door to Rwanda where they managed in 1994 to kill between 800,000 and 1,071,000 of each other in a bit over a month mostly with machetes though some military and police participated too?

If it could happen next door it could happen there...You wouldn't be farking taking my guns away. Guess where one of the main places refugees on both sides of the Rwanda conflict fled to...Yup, Tanzania. Not all refugees are peaceful, some are just regrouping.

Those that don't know their history are doomed to having their heads split open with machetes and their bodies dismembered after watching the rapes and murders of their children.
 
2007-01-24 01:21:09 PM  
expobill: I understand NRA freedom
but
why does someone needa Glock?


I'm not sure I follow you. Do you mean you understand long arms but not handguns?
 
2007-01-24 01:28:30 PM  
I love that Toyota ad they keep showing in the (American) football playoffs.

The Toyota is attacked by the Loch Ness Monster and of course it escapes unscathed, in the background the campers are screaming "Shoot it! Shoot it!" as if Britons were permitted guns
.
 
2007-01-24 01:29:55 PM  
MrSteve007

So everyone is supposed to carry a gun because on some random day, some random nutcase jumps me a starts beating me up? You sir, are paranoid. And if you're carrying a concealed weapon, stay the hell the away from me.
 
2007-01-24 01:34:54 PM  
President of Tanzania to his country: "let me introduce you to my lil' friend"

Anyone who wants the right to bear arms eliminated, should be made to live in a big city...without a police force.
 
2007-01-24 01:38:42 PM  
drewsclues: So everyone is supposed to carry a gun because on some random day, some random nutcase jumps me a starts beating me up? You sir, are paranoid. And if you're carrying a concealed weapon, stay the hell the away from me.

If it ever happens, don't ask for help.
 
2007-01-24 01:39:57 PM  
Regarding smokepoles, I built a Jim Chambers English Gentleman's Sporting Rifle in 58 caliber. Fine quality kit. Doesn't assemble itself but the parts come in nicer order than many other kits I have seen on the market, pricier of course. Track of the Wolf sells them as does Chambers himself. Next project will be one of his Fowling Pieces. I've been trying to decide on ten or twelve bore. Black powder birds is a fun challenge because you only get one shot.
 
2007-01-24 01:41:43 PM  
I see all the gun hating/fearing people put in their 2 cents worth. There are 90 million plus LEGAL gun owners in the United States, and according to the anti-gun side, all of us are potential murderers. That is so laughable AND hypocritical that I almost can't comprehend it. If that logic is true, I could pick up a kitchen knife and kill someone with it, because it is sharp and can easily cut flesh. Or maybe even a lowly little No. 2 pencil and jab someone in the neck several times before they even knew what hit them. In the end, humans kill humans. Some people are friggin' crazy psychos who will kill with any method they can, but a gun just happened to be nearby. Some are just gang banging losers who think that terrorizing innocent UNARMED people is cool and acceptable. Those people are a tiny minority out of us 90 million plus gun owners.
 
2007-01-24 01:49:47 PM  
Aw, dammit. Now you're going to get the Glock lovers out in force, telling you how they've fired 20,000 handloads through their Glocks with no problems.

LOL. That's like the students I deal with who say, "But I leave my stuff unattended in the library all of the time and it isn't stolen." when I point out that backpacks and laptops and wallets (etc.) are stolen out of the library EVERY SINGLE DAY. "B-b-b-but it has never happened to me before so it can't ever happen to me!" Good luck with that.

Hey, if someone wants to take a KNOWN risk with a Glock, so be it. It's their gun, they can wreck it if they want to. Maybe their hand too, they'd have some cool scars to show off.

Me? Call me crazy, but I tend to avoid taking needless risks. If I had a Glock (and I'm not saying they should be banned by any means) I'd take care to avoid the documented situations where bad things happen while firing them. I really can do without a gun blowing up in my hands, it isn't something I want to ever experience, especially if I happen to NEED the gun to work at that very moment.
 
2007-01-24 02:02:08 PM  
I would like to see the percentage of Glock kaBOOMs versus the number of rounds fired and that figure corrected for stupid shiat like sketchy reloaded ammunition.

I'm a Glock factory-trained armorer and a law enforcement firearms instructor and I have heard a lot of annecdotal evidence, but not much on hard facts.

At the moment I am inclined to say this is like the infinite number of monkeys given an infinite number of typewriters, if you have a whole lot of monkeys shooting Glocks, there will be inevitably some anamolous events that will get some people to shake their fists in the air and claim the product is inherently defective.

www.colossusblog.com
 
2007-01-24 02:04:45 PM  
jcache

Regarding smokepoles, I built a Jim Chambers English Gentleman's Sporting Rifle in 58 caliber. Fine quality kit. Doesn't assemble itself but the parts come in nicer order than many other kits I have seen on the market, pricier of course. Track of the Wolf sells them as does Chambers himself. Next project will be one of his Fowling Pieces. I've been trying to decide on ten or twelve bore. Black powder birds is a fun challenge because you only get one shot.


Chambers makes a good lock. Unless I am mistaken, Chambers now makes the Siler locks, and Siler locks are the best sparkers out there that I am aware of. Good geometry and lock times, and good heat treating.
 
2007-01-24 02:19:36 PM  
dittybopper: Yup on the locks. Lifetime guarantee too. Here is his locks page.
 
2007-01-24 02:22:28 PM  
"Next up - less guns, less death due to guns. Do you understand the maths here? If there are no guns, nobody can be shot. This is very very simple."


Woah, you are way off base. Maybe you should rethink your last statement and come back when you have a reasonable statement to make.

/has 14 guns
//needs more
 
2007-01-24 02:23:11 PM  
I guess the Sad tag isn't around today :(
 
2007-01-24 02:28:38 PM  
drewsclues

I guess the victim in that beating was paranoid too, and that is why he's still alive. Even still, he walked away with a couple broken ribs and a broken jaw. I'm not sure what utopia you live in, but the world has bad people in it. Working as a TV news producer, I got to see a lot of crime scenes and know what really happens to victims. I worked in Yakima Washington, which is one of the most violent places in the state.

For every shooting victim I saw, there was a stabbing, drowning, beating or burning. Being on the scene were a woman was blindfolded, bound, then tied to a tree and burned to death helps you take a new outlook on society. None of the victims I saw were concealed carry holders. That may not have changed anything, but I know it'd help even the odds. It doesn't take long to gain an understanding that there are downright evil people living nearby. I know that 99.9% of everyone is friendly and nice, but for that .1%, I don't plan on allowing myself or my family on being victims.

It also doesn't help I moved to a new, nice rural area, and know that my neighbor has 30-40 ex cons/rapists living in tents and trailers in the woods on his acreage.

Of course this is the same hometown of nascar drive Kasey Kahne and the guy who died after having sex with a horse . . . so normal isn't the norm here.
 
2007-01-24 02:29:07 PM  
Right after he lights them, the whole town is attacked by mutant baby Stewies.

Seriously though, I hate to see weapons destroyed like this, as they are in Iraq when the US military recovers weapons...What a waste. There should be some sort of re-licensing government program that resells them (the legal ones, anyway) once they're all registered.
 
2007-01-24 03:09:00 PM  
FlashHarry: aiiee wins teh intArnets and owes me a new MacBook Pro!

ZARDOZ!



I knew there had to be somebody else that had seen that movie :)
 
2007-01-24 03:13:20 PM  
jcache

dittybopper: Yup on the locks. Lifetime guarantee too. Here is his locks page.


If you look closely at my rifle in the pictures I posted above, you will see that the lock is a Large Siler.

Wouldn't have anything else.

One other bonus of the Siler locks: They don't eat flints. I consistently get 40+ shots per flint.
 
2007-01-24 03:21:54 PM  
I hope an Aggie didn't construct it.
 
2007-01-24 05:51:06 PM  
Rwanda, Darfur, Somalia, all have been prosecuted primarily by militia and gangs, not the respective governments.

Rwanda had strict gun control laws in place. That's why so many people were killed by machetes...they didn't have an effective means available to fight back.

If you disarm one segment of the population while arming another, those arms will likely be used. And gun control is a necessary precursor to genocide.
 
2007-01-24 05:55:36 PM  
i can't remember when was the last time i heard of a gun related death here.

Refer to most Koreans as a "Jap" in person, they will not use a gun on you. They'll simply beat you to death.
 
2007-01-24 05:59:54 PM  
//guns do kill people

Ted Kennedy's driving has killed more people than the majority of my guns.

For a laugh, check out: THIS: (pops)



/owns some guns that have killed people
//most of my guns haven't
 
2007-01-24 06:01:14 PM  
Now you're going to get the Glock lovers out in force

Glocks are nice guns. My mother carries one.
 
2007-01-24 06:02:53 PM  
If there are no guns, nobody can be shot.

You don't have to own a sword to die on one.
 
2007-01-24 06:04:46 PM  
So children should bring guns to school and shoot bullies?

nope. But teachers who are qualified to carry a handgun should be allowed to, in case they run into somebody that can be legally shot.

If you don't trust your child's teacher with a gun, what the fark are you doing trusting them with YOUR CHILD!?!?!?!?
 
2007-01-24 06:07:46 PM  
You can obtain guns in the UK, but due to it being illegal for the vast majority of law-abiding people to own and distribute them, it's far far harder - therefore, less guns in circulation. You can't just rob a gunstore or a gun owner, or hijack regularly shipped supplies.

Yeah, we tried that here when me criminalized drugs like marijuana and cocaine. That's why it's easier in this country to buy marijuana and cocaine than it is to buy a gun.

/not kidding
 
2007-01-24 06:11:24 PM  
Assailant still wins, clearly - because he has his gun out ,because he's intending to kill the victim, who can't draw his gun faster than it takes the assailant to pull the trigger.

The only reason I'm alive today is that most criminals can't shoot for shiat.

/Can actually hit his target
 
2007-01-24 06:11:46 PM  
paygun

do we need glocks for
self defence,
shooting range and
(ouch) hunting?

/antigun
but not anti-gun cotroll,
'cuz it wont work!
 
2007-01-24 06:17:52 PM  
I can defend myself better with a sharp knive,
#2 pencil etc.

since i'm a Bronco and Cane fan, a human with gun took away 2 football players.

its a tough issue.
we definatly need "a" better controll over guns,
but more controll over the people who can get them illegally.
 
2007-01-24 07:49:03 PM  
I hear people in San Francisco are now serving fetus salads at their gay naked children orgies.
 
2007-01-24 07:50:12 PM  
Secret Master of All Flatulence: Glocks are nice guns. My mother carries one.

Glocks are nice guns. Glock owners can be a little over the top sometimes. I compare them to Mac owners with the whole "Glock Perfection" marketing campaign. I think they're more the AK-47 of pistols, personally.
 
2007-01-24 07:55:48 PM  
Secret Maste of All Flatulence-WINS THREAD HANDS DOWN, dude can you write my speech about gun control for me? I need to shake some sense into there liberal idiots from austin at my school.
 
2007-01-24 08:35:12 PM  
I think they're more the AK-47 of pistols, personally.


Now, now. Glocks have their strong points and weak points. For the "strong" side, they've got a high "pointability" factor. By this, I mean when you instinctively point one, odds are pretty good that if you have a correct grip on the gun, the bullet will go generally in the direction you want it to. For the weak side, if you "limp-wrist" a Glock, it'll stovepipe at least 90% of the time.

However, if I'm going to use a 9mm, I'm not going to use a Glock, I'm going to use this: img267.imageshack.us
 
2007-01-24 08:41:48 PM  
Texas, nah, I can't write it for you, but I can point you in some fun directions. For instance, if you want to mess with some people, read Diamond's and Cottrol's "The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration". Throwing the racist nature of gun control at Liberals is one of my favorite pasttimes. Oh, yeah: I also dig machineguns. Old machineguns. Old, functional machineguns. Old, functional, water-cooled machineguns. Old, functional water-cooled machineguns on anti-aircraft tripods, so that when I'm shooting them, I don't have to sit in the dirt.

/former 01/03 FFL/SOT, and damned proud of it.
 
2007-01-24 11:59:13 PM  
oh Secret Master of All Flatulence...I'm with you on the old Machinegun thing, a Maxim 08 or 08/15 would be a lovely addition to my gun collection. Although things don't have to be water-cooled, I 'd really like a Hotchkiss.

And Diddybopper...go smoothbore! I bought a Pedersoli An IX Charleville from Cabela's a few years back and brought it out during black powder dear season. Nice gun, didn't get anything, but what a nice gun.
 
2007-01-25 02:27:47 AM  
Sigh, more democide enablers. Sad.

Did you know that in the 20th century, there were 200 times more people killed by their governments than by homicide?

There are 300 million guns in the US, which is 65% of the WORLD's total, including all guns owned by all the world's armies. We shoot 9,000,000,000 rounds of ammo a year.

The pen is only mightier than the sword at distances exceeding one sword-length. More people have died for want of a sword than have died for want of a pen.

/Oooo! A Schmeisser! Shiny!
 
2007-01-25 08:00:36 AM  
There are 300 million guns in the US, which is 65% of the WORLD's total,

Yes, there are 300 million guns in the US. No, that's not 65% of the total number of guns on the planet.
 
2007-01-25 09:54:31 AM  
schatzie

And Diddybopper...go smoothbore! I bought a Pedersoli An IX Charleville from Cabela's a few years back and brought it out during black powder dear season. Nice gun, didn't get anything, but what a nice gun.


If I go smoothbore, it will be with one of the guns my father made. He put that rifle together for me.

Actually, he has quite a number of trade guns and officer fusils that he has made, and I'd like one of them for small game/birds. He's tried every trick in the book to get them to shoot decently enough for deer (at 50 to 75 yards). Everytime he will get most of 5 shots in a decent circle, and at least one really bad flier. Doesn't seem worth it to me, so I'll stick to the rifle for deer.

But my absolute favorite is his Baker Rifle. A .62 caliber thumper (my rifle is .54 caliber*) in beautiful Walnut and brass. Even my wife likes the Baker, and she isn't a gun person.

*I sat down with a calculator and ballistics tables and figured out that the optimum deer caliber for a muzzleloader shooting round ball is .54. That caliber will retain the most energy downrange, without an extremely high trajectory. YMMV.
 
Displayed 228 of 228 comments



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report