FARK.com: (2505368) Real-estate agent sues Washington state because they violated his freedom of speech. He wanted his nativity scene placed next to the holiday tree, the Menorah and the Antonio Banderas blow-up doll at the state capitol

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		Real-estate agent sues Washington state because they violated his freedom of speech. He wanted his nativity scene placed next to the holiday tree, the Menorah and the Antonio Banderas blow-up doll at the state capitol (hosted.ap.org)		118
		More: Interesting

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3261 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2006 at 11:40 AM | Favorite | share:

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ThatDevGuy		2006-12-29 11:27:09 AM

That's what you get for being in the majority, buddy.

MorningBreath		2006-12-29 11:34:15 AM

shut up, realtor man.

orrinbloquy		2006-12-29 11:36:14 AM

Pray for Mercy.
ec2.images-amazon.com

Mordant		2006-12-29 11:36:24 AM

ThatDevGuy: That's what you get for being in the majority, buddy.

True, most people do wait until the last minute to take care of their Christmas affairs.

Whamdangler		2006-12-29 11:38:11 AM

"Freedom of speech" does not guarantee the government provides you a forum for your speech, it merely means that you (in theory) cannot be arrested for speaking your opinions.

BlindMan		2006-12-29 11:43:50 AM

It's a judeo christian civilization we live in, learn to farking deal with it.

meekychuppet		2006-12-29 11:44:14 AM

Men who file lawsuits like this have extremely small penises.

brap		2006-12-29 11:44:47 AM

Today we celebrate the miracle that occured when Bandaras burned for eight days after his wedding night schtupping.

meekychuppet		2006-12-29 11:45:09 AM

BlindMan

It's a judeo christian civilization we live in, learn to farking deal with it.

Why did you have to troll like that so early and spoil things?

MBA Whore		2006-12-29 11:45:12 AM

Am I the only one who gets the South Park "Antonio Banderas" blow up doll reference?

koniver		2006-12-29 11:45:21 AM

Just call it a god damn Christmas tree. Even if you are not Christian the tree represents Christmas. I don't see them calling the Menorah the "Holiday Candle Stick holder"

/not Christian but it still pisses me off.

castufari		2006-12-29 11:45:29 AM

What an asshat.

idrow		2006-12-29 11:45:47 AM

Another case of an asshat having too much free time on hands whining for attention.

mrmookid		2006-12-29 11:47:06 AM

I think his free speech was violated. Why the baby Jesus hate?

GoldSpider		2006-12-29 11:47:13 AM

So a creche is a religious symbol but a menorah isn't? Just checking.

koniver		2006-12-29 11:47:48 AM

meekychuppet

How is he trolling, he is making a rational point that every Farker loves to quote about how the Christians/Jews are the majority.

MrToast		2006-12-29 11:48:15 AM

Where can I get that blow-up doll?

lionfish		2006-12-29 11:48:44 AM

koniver: Just call it a god damn Christmas tree.

But it's not a "Christmas" tree. It's a holiday tree. They were around before Christmas. It's a Saturnalia tree. That's what it should be called. The tree has nothing to do with Jesus being born (just like December 25th, actually.)

/but I digress.

EmmaLou		2006-12-29 11:48:54 AM

There's already precedent on this. You can have a holiday display on the Capital grounds as long as it's inclusive and doesn't just display Christian symbols. His problem is he's a procrastinator who wanted to stir up some trouble. He needed a timely request, and should have thought about it sooner.

TechnoHead		2006-12-29 11:49:12 AM

MBA Whore

Two words for you: realistic genitalia.

meekychuppet		2006-12-29 11:49:26 AM

koniver

Because the statement is bollocks.

dallashockey69		2006-12-29 11:50:02 AM

leave all religion out of politics.

fireclown		2006-12-29 11:51:00 AM

Christmas is in fact a Christian holiday. Lots of religions celebrate holidays, and most of the time everyone is free to participate. I went to a friends house a few years back as part of his menorah lighting, and I will be visiting with a friend this weekend as part of their celebrating the feast of eid, whatever it is exactly. They are free to celebrate their respective holidays as they wish. That's how America is supposed to work, and we do a half decent job of it.

Christians have all the rights as Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, and everyone else I didn't mention. I don't find a Christmas tree (referred to as such) a big problem. This doesn't have to be exclusionary or mean.

What's wrong with you people?

MBA Whore: Nope. Not at all.

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros		2006-12-29 11:51:24 AM

He's a realtor? What do you want to bet that the frankinsense holder said "ReMax" on it?

ls_slacker		2006-12-29 11:51:37 AM

Anything backed by the Alliance Defense Fund (aka, Lawyers for the XTian Taliban) is immediately suspect.

BlindMan		2006-12-29 11:51:38 AM

lionfish

koniver: Just call it a god damn Christmas tree.

But it's not a "Christmas" tree. It's a holiday tree. They were around before Christmas. It's a Saturnalia tree. That's what it should be called. The tree has nothing to do with Jesus being born (just like December 25th, actually.)

/but I digress.

But it's not a pagan tree either because trees were around long before pagans, and cakes were around long before birthdays so they aren't birthday cakes.

Because symbolism is an intrinsic part of physical objects and not one we create and change through language and cultural discourse.

TheAnvil		2006-12-29 11:52:12 AM

GoldSpider: So a creche is a religious symbol but a menorah isn't? Just checking.

Yep. Only Christians have religious symbols, which violate the First Amendment. Other religions have symbols of diversity which we tolerate and value in our enlightened society.

meekychuppet		2006-12-29 11:52:47 AM

fireclown

FOTR farkS SAKE IT'S SATURNALIA.

Better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

The Dynamite Monkey		2006-12-29 11:53:00 AM

Realtors are almost always unethical, useless, scum sucking leeches.

And that includes Ron Wesselius of Tumwater.

.

Rev. Skarekroe		2006-12-29 11:53:10 AM

BlindMan: It's a judeo christian civilization we live in, learn to farking deal with it.

More Christian than Judeo in this country.

Zaphod42		2006-12-29 11:53:19 AM

We should start a movement to get all religions represented on public land. Only then will the majority religions see why it's in their best interest to stay the fark off public land. Nobody is suppressing the right to express your religion. Do it all you want on your land, on your time.

TechnoHead		2006-12-29 11:53:27 AM

As a devout pastafarian, I am gonna sue them unless they allow me to place a plate of spaghetti and meatballs between the holiday tree and the menorah.

fireclown		2006-12-29 11:53:27 AM

lionfish: But it's not a "Christmas" tree. It's a holiday tree. They were around before Christmas. It's a Saturnalia tree. That's what it should be called. The tree has nothing to do with Jesus being born (just like December 25th, actually.)

When I put MINE up, it's a Christmas tree. Celebrating the birth of Jesus. As an actual religious participant, I claim gravitas over your sophomore philosophy student angst. If when my eye-talian friend Mark puts his up it's a Saturalia tree, then his is a Saturnalia tree.

serpent_sky		2006-12-29 11:53:51 AM

Why, though, do these people need a huge public display? A personal display isn't enough for them? They need it displayed on public property, which is paid for by all? It makes no sense.

If someone said he couldn't have it on his property, I'd support him fully. He should be able to put whatever he wants there. But public space? I don't really think we need an overtly religious symbol there.

Understood, they have the menorah there, which I suppose, really shouldn't be, but at the same time, I don't really care that it's there. I think that's where he maybe has some point, but not an actual legal case, and certainly not one regarding his freedom of speech, since nobody was stopping him from saying what he wanted, or displaying it on his own property.

ls_slacker		2006-12-29 11:54:07 AM

lionfish: It's a Saturnalia tree.

Were the Romans into trees? I thought the tree bits were from the Germanic pagans, whereas timing came from the Romans.

WizardX		2006-12-29 11:54:17 AM

It's a shame the guy's an asshat. If the government HAD put up a Menorah but not a Christian display, he'd have a legitimate case.

But waiting until the last minute and then saying, "put this up RIGHT NOW without talking about it or I sue?"

Giant douchebag.

meekychuppet		2006-12-29 11:54:46 AM

fireclown

When I put MINE up, it's a Christmas tree. Celebrating the birth of Jesus. As an actual religious participant, I claim gravitas over your sophomore philosophy student angst. If when my eye-talian friend Mark puts his up it's a Saturalia tree, then his is a Saturnalia tree.

As a taxpayer he's got you over a barrel ready to be buttfarked. PUBLIC LAND.

fireclown		2006-12-29 11:55:04 AM

meekychuppet: FOTR farkS SAKE IT'S SATURNALIA.

You too. And fix your cap lock key.

serpent_sky		2006-12-29 11:56:22 AM

fireclown
When I put MINE up, it's a Christmas tree. Celebrating the birth of Jesus. As an actual religious participant, I claim gravitas over your sophomore philosophy student angst. If when my eye-talian friend Mark puts his up it's a Saturalia tree, then his is a Saturnalia tree.

Sounds good to me. But it's okay for one on say, state property, to just be a "holiday tree", right? Not that it matters -- it's really semantics at that point. They can call it a holiday tree, but most people acknolwedge it as a Christmas tree.

I mean, we're not remotely religious, but for some reason have a year-round LED tree in our house. It's cute. We call it a "Christmas tree." It's kind of like how cotton swabs are called "Q-tips" and most people don't care, not even Q-tip, unless you're infringing on their trademark.

meekychuppet		2006-12-29 11:57:39 AM

fireclown

Caps were intentional. Typo not so much.

ChairmanKaga		2006-12-29 11:57:52 AM

WizardX

But waiting until the last minute and then saying, "put this up RIGHT NOW without talking about it or I sue?"

Yup

Make note of what you feel needs to be corrected, offer to sponser those items NEXT year.

palad		2006-12-29 11:58:15 AM

This doesn't surprise me.

What surprises me is that there are still people out there who believe the apostles actually wrote the gospels.

fireclown		2006-12-29 11:58:41 AM

meekychuppet: As a taxpayer he's got you over a barrel ready to be buttfarked. PUBLIC LAND.

Then I demand he take down the Menorah, AND the Bandaras doll. And stop with the Holiday trees, because that is sort of insulting.

MrToast		2006-12-29 12:00:00 PM

The menorah is abstract. A creche, much less so.

If the menorah had candles that looked like circumsized penises, it wouldn't be allowed.

serpent_sky		2006-12-29 12:00:01 PM

ChairmanKaga [TotalFark]

Make note of what you feel needs to be corrected, offer to sponser those items NEXT year.

Sure, but how does that get you in the news right now? How does that benefit you in a frivolous lawsuit?

lionfish		2006-12-29 12:00:02 PM

fireclown: When I put MINE up, it's a Christmas tree. Celebrating the birth of Jesus. As an actual religious participant, I claim gravitas over your sophomore philosophy student angst. If when my eye-talian friend Mark puts his up it's a Saturalia tree, then his is a Saturnalia tree.

And how, exactly does your tree signify the birth of christ?
You put it up because its a Saturnalia tradition, plain and simple.

Vangor		2006-12-29 12:00:15 PM

fireclown what symbolism does it offer besides the fact that it is used for Christmas now? If you learned that the Christmas tree is in fact the Saturnalia Tree and that there is no specific symbolism to the Christians save for having adopted Pagan customs in order to better blend their holidays back into society, essentially removing the rationale behind the 25th even, would there be any symbolism left to you to want to place down that tree as a representation of the birth of your lord and savior?

ls_slacker		2006-12-29 12:00:20 PM

ChairmanKaga: Make note of what you feel needs to be corrected, offer to sponser those items NEXT year.

If there was, in any way, a rational request, the Alliance Defense Fund would not be involved.

The Dynamite Monkey		2006-12-29 12:02:10 PM

fireclown: When I put MINE up, it's a Christmas tree. Celebrating the birth of Jesus. As an actual religious participant, I claim gravitas over your sophomore philosophy student angst.

So it's ok to appropriate symbols with a long history for your own purposes and demand others respect them?

Awesome!

You're gonna love my Halloween "tortured hippie on a cross" display on my front lawn.

See, as an actual non-religious participant, I claim gravitas over your sophomore fundamentalist student angst.

The Homer Tax		2006-12-29 12:04:28 PM

fireclown: Then I demand he take down the Menorah, AND the Bandaras doll. And stop with the Holiday trees, because that is sort of insulting.

I completely agree, we should leave religious expressions to the churches and private citizens. That was the whole intention behind the establishment clause/separation of C&S in the first place. When Government and Religion mingle, they just end up farking each other up. They should each keep to their own and both sides would be happier.

I find that, more often than not, people who support the intermingling of government and faith only support the mingling of government and *their* faith.

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