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(Some Guy)   Millions of Americans live on the margins of the economy, depending on payday lenders and pawnshops that charge excessive interest rates for their services. Discipline and common sense unavailable   (alternet.org) divider line 527
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5362 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Dec 2006 at 9:53 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-12-29 07:48:10 AM
Discipline and "common sense" are a combination of inherited traits and learned behaviours that you get from having parents with discipline and common sense.

If you have them, it's easy to take them for granted. But they're pretty hard to acquire if you simply don't have the background.
 
2006-12-29 07:53:38 AM
Hush your mouth, Adman12. Haven't you gotten the memo yet?

People who are poor and do not have the resources to improve their lives just didn't want to be rich badly enough. They're lazy and borderline criminal and should really just be locked away in their own dirty corners of the city.

People who are rich worked hard, earned everything they have on their own merits, and owe nothing to society at all for their good fortune.
 
2006-12-29 08:04:07 AM
And many of those lazy borderline criminals are in the military. Any connections the reader draws are the reader's sole responsibility.
 
2006-12-29 08:27:36 AM
Living witin your means is a learned behavior usually taught with harsh realities and living in your car. Some people simply lower their standards to accommodate their environment, accepting it as the norm. Their children (why are their always so goddamn many) do the same... and so on and on and on.... every now and then, one will pull themselves out of the much and mire of extreme poverty to lower middle class. The question is, are these people victims?

/Grew up pretty poor in rural Louisiana. Enlisted Marine, EASed to Dallas and now make a fair living. I don't OWE anyone a goddamned thing. flaEsq your assumptions about the educational status of our armed services is pretty far off base. Proven motivational methods limit the amount of duty skirting. Dedicated persons tend to end up in positions where they're allowed to force their level of dedication on the rest of us, often making better troops. It's damn effective.

/instead of many, Some might be a better word.
 
2006-12-29 08:51:13 AM
h3lx: your assumptions about the educational status of our armed services is pretty far off base.

Congress saw fit to inadequately deal with the payday loan ripoffs as they pertain to service members but not for anyone else. ISTM your beef is with congress, I'm just echoing its position.
 
2006-12-29 08:51:22 AM
Pocket Ninja: People who are rich worked hard, earned everything they have on their own merits, and owe nothing to society at all for their good fortune.

Now I'm confused, because the great liberal un-logical have explained to me that The Rich are only rich because they have been lucky in finding opportunities to exploit the poor. I understood that it was through no virtue of their own that they have succeeded, and so any fortune they have managed to amass should be seized and re-distributed.

Of course, I'm not sure how long that plan will work after the producers get sick of it and quit, because the poor certainly aren't going to pick up the slack.
 
2006-12-29 09:09:50 AM
flaEsq: And many of those lazy borderline criminals are in the military.

Wow. You are *so* gonna get your ass handed to you over this comment. Lemme know how much your ass burns later.
 
2006-12-29 09:32:41 AM
What Adman12 said
 
2006-12-29 09:39:02 AM
Poor people don't want to pawn their shiat to feed the children. Poor people would love to have a bank account, but they zero extra cash and live hand to mouth so they use check cashing places.

I suspect you farks have never really been poor. Never been fed Ketchup soup, eaten government cheese or powdered eggs.

My Parents worked but still couldn't make ends meet. They are exactly the same sort that would get screwed by these predatory moneylenders.
 
2006-12-29 09:42:04 AM
ChairmanKaga: I suspect you farks have never really been poor. Never been fed Ketchup soup, eaten government cheese or powdered eggs.

You'd be wrong.

My Parents worked but still couldn't make ends meet. They are exactly the same sort that would get screwed by these predatory moneylenders.

Not mine - even with no farking money they were smart enough not to take out a high-interest short-term loan of that sort.
 
2006-12-29 09:47:24 AM
And many of these pawnshops and payday lenders pop up and thrive like mushrooms around military bases.

What does that tell you about your "lack of discipline and common sense" premise, Subby?

More importantly, what does it tell you about how we treat our exalted Military Heroes(TM) - not the lip service we pay; but how we really treat them where it counts?
 
2006-12-29 09:48:05 AM
Sloth_DC

When you have NO OPTIONS you do what you can to feed your children. What did you parents do then? How did they heat your home if they couln't buy 5 or 10 gallons of feul oil?

Why is that such an odd concept? There is really a disconnect going on with folks today. I I could'nt feed Baby Kaga I would have no problem robbing a 7/11 if I had too.

/Not that I am complaining about Government cheese. It was actually very good. I nice sharp cheddar.
 
2006-12-29 09:50:16 AM
ChairmanKaga: I suspect you farks have never really been poor. Never been fed Ketchup soup, eaten government cheese or powdered eggs.

Yup, you'd be guilty of the same myopic view of which you accuse us.

I was poor as dirt, grew up in Waycross, Georgia. Lived in an unheated trailer with no electricity at times.

You know what that did? Made me sure that I never wanted to be back in that circumstance.
 
2006-12-29 09:52:48 AM
Sloth_DC

flaEsq: And many of those lazy borderline criminals are in the military.

Wow. You are *so* gonna get your ass handed to you over this comment. Lemme know how much your ass burns later.


He stated a fact. These places are like ticks feeding off the military and the problem is epidemic. If you are lost and looking for a military base, you know you are close when you start seeing payday lenders and pawn shops multiply by a factor of ten.

He asked a rhetorical question, and I am sure the "lazy borderline criminals" part was sarcasm etched to make his point.
 
2006-12-29 09:55:20 AM
Netsloth

Answer the question:

1. Your an honest working person making XXX dollars a week.
2. You have no savings because you should be making XXXX dollars a week.
3. You have no food in the house and no fuel oil in December.
4. Your young child is hungry.
5. Pay day is 4 days away.

What would you do? I would go get an anticpation loan and do what I can to feed my children now.
 
2006-12-29 09:56:08 AM
I know the feeling all too well. My ship sank in the $300 overdraft limit on my checking account. *nurses gaping wounds left in still bleeding wallet*
 
2006-12-29 09:57:41 AM
Don't blame the rich man, blame welfare queens and people who abuse the system.
 
2006-12-29 09:58:07 AM
Why is it that all of these people living on the margins of the economy have televisions, playstations and can afford smokes?

/get off my welfare
 
2006-12-29 09:59:17 AM
ChairmanKaga: What would you do?

Here's what I did:

I didn't have children until I could afford to take care of them.
 
2006-12-29 09:59:37 AM
"But they're pretty hard to acquire if you simply don't have the background."

so what your saying is that the poor lack the ability to learn from their mistakes and should therefore be treated as children unable to grow or learn?

because if not, then I guess as adults they should have enough common sense to say "if that didn't work last time, it probably won't farken work this time".
 
2006-12-29 10:00:08 AM
Undocumented workers? ahem. Illegal aliens. I have little sympathy for them.
 
2006-12-29 10:01:37 AM
I I could'nt feed Baby Kaga I would have no problem robbing a 7/11 if I had too.

As far as I'm concerned that's a superior solution to the damn Title Loan/Payday Lenders with their terms amounting to financial rape.
 
2006-12-29 10:02:07 AM
Kaga, it isn't about the people who have to do this once in a while. It's about the people who do this as a way of life. After a few years you tend to lose sympathy for the person who continually returns to the payday loan places as a way of life.
 
2006-12-29 10:03:06 AM
Netsloth

Here's what I did:

I didn't have children until I could afford to take care of them.


Me too. But I am asking that you show a little Christian empathy and place yourself in the shoes of those less fortunate than us.

What WOULD you do? Because that is a situation faced by millions of honest hard working people. MANY of them serving their country in the US military.
 
2006-12-29 10:03:16 AM
Answer the question:

1. Your an honest working person making XXX dollars a week.
2. You have no savings because you should be making XXXX dollars a week.
3. You have no food in the house and no fuel oil in December.
4. Your young child is hungry.
5. Pay day is 4 days away.

What would you do? I would go get an anticpation loan and do what I can to feed my children no


Answer this first

Where are both parents to this child?

Who's decision was it to bring this life into this world? who's responsibility?
 
2006-12-29 10:03:57 AM
I think it's safe to say we can divide people into the categories of those actually trying hard to make it, and those who are idiots.

If the idiots can be cleared out, then we can have pity properly directed to those who are in a bad spot.
 
2006-12-29 10:03:57 AM
Yeah, and millions more live below these millions. And so on in both directions. Newsflash, this is capitalism. Not everyone is adept at handling their finances and not everyone finds themselves in a position to be wealthy. So what?
 
2006-12-29 10:04:32 AM
2006-12-29 09:58:07 AM Chaim Witz

Why is it that all of these people living on the margins of the economy have televisions, playstations and can afford smokes?

/get off my welfare


Kiss Fan?

I would say that just like a drug addict or an alcoholic, they use something to fill an emptiness. It lets you get your mind off of your real problems.

Yes, it is a waste of money.
 
2006-12-29 10:04:32 AM
Everybody is free to hit the bottom once. Basic libertarian principle. My solution: once you go bankrupt, you're required to attend mandatory courses on basic life skills.
 
2006-12-29 10:04:34 AM
NineInchNader:

Sounds like you identified an opportunity. Why don't you start a business that charges moderate interest rates instead of biatching?
 
2006-12-29 10:05:01 AM
Screw you, subby. Screw you right in your piehole.
 
2006-12-29 10:05:03 AM
"You're" people, YOU ARE. YOU'RE. Not "your". Sheesh.
 
2006-12-29 10:05:34 AM
ChairmanKaga: When you have NO OPTIONS you do what you can to feed your children. What did you parents do then?

Joined the army and learned a trade.

I I could'nt feed Baby Kaga I would have no problem robbing a 7/11 if I had too.

You have surprisingly flexible morals considering how many options the less fortunate have in this country. We simply don't have a society where stealing is the only option.
 
2006-12-29 10:05:35 AM
Most checking accounts are free with direct deposit. There's absolutely no excuse for not having a checking account.
 
2006-12-29 10:06:11 AM
skwerl

Kaga, it isn't about the people who have to do this once in a while. It's about the people who do this as a way of life. After a few years you tend to lose sympathy for the person who continually returns to the payday loan places as a way of life.

Thats why they call it a trap.

Listen, paying unfairly high interest on short term loans is not a new thing. Poor people had used loan sharks for generations. Our generation has legalized and legitimized this form of usury. We just don't break thumbs.
 
2006-12-29 10:06:12 AM
And so the world gapes again at the massive stupidity displayed by the "ugly american" (tm)

Just because one fat whore produces 10 children on welfare and one crack farker cheats the system doesnt make you all right. Nothing could.

Can any of you arrogant comfortable mummy's boys identify the following quote, and who xxxxxxx is?

'At this festive season of the year, Mr xxxxxxx,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, 'it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'

'Are there no prisons?"

'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
'And the Union workhouses.' demanded xxxxxxx. 'Are they still in operation?'


'Both very busy, sir.'

'Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said xxxxxxx. 'I'm very glad to hear it.'

'Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman, 'a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'

'Nothing!' xxxxxxx replied.

'You wish to be anonymous?'

'I wish to be left alone,' said xxxxxxx. 'Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned-they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'

'Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'

'If they would rather die,' said xxxxxxx, 'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

Centuries ago society learnt that you are all wrong. now spoilt middle class America returns to pre-dickensian Britain. Well done.
 
2006-12-29 10:06:58 AM
ChairmanKaga: But I am asking that you show a little Christian empathy

You are asking the wrong person. I am an anti-religion atheist, and I believe that charity starts with responsibility.
 
2006-12-29 10:07:22 AM
gaspode: an any of you arrogant comfortable mummy's boys identify the following quote, and who xxxxxxx is?

'At this festive season of the year, Mr xxxxxxx


Wasn't he a wrestler in the 1980's?
 
2006-12-29 10:07:33 AM
No one in the millatary should want for food, clothing, housing or adequate medical care. This is a national embarrasement. I find it hard to belive, as families in the milltary get all this no? What's the problem? I think I missing something.
 
2006-12-29 10:07:35 AM
The number of Americans who are living on the margins has been steadily increasing for a couple of reasons, and it has nothing to do with self control or discipline.

The fact is that salary increases have not been matching cost of living adjustments for the past 6 years. This has meant that an increasing number of households are finding that they are less able to upkeep the lifestyle that they grew accustom to in the more prosperous mid 90's.

More disturbing though is that many of these households are trapped paying lines of credit opened on the expectation that economic growth would benefit them as well. Unfortunately economic growth has been very lopsided, benefitting only a small number of people by a very large amount. And these households are finding that economic growth has not only not benefitted them but inflation and a lack of income growth has placed them in an increasing precarious economic position.
 
2006-12-29 10:08:02 AM
If payday loans are so evil then why do commercial banks have them? Wells Fargo, for example, has a payday loan system in place... but they call it "a Direct Deposit Advance". Similar rates and similar amounts as the payday loan places.

And Payday Loans are not a bad thing... IF YOU HAVE DISCIPLINE!!!!

I've used them a few times... but knowing a few things in advance:

-> getting a payday loan is costing me this-much
-> so I don't want to keep going at it forever and ever
-> so, at best, I only take one in a row
-> or, at worst, I take a few in a row, but each subsequent one a smaller amount than the previous one until "voila" no more payday loans for me.
 
2006-12-29 10:08:12 AM
ChairmanKaga: What would you do? I would go get an anticpation loan and do what I can to feed my children now.

The emergency situation you describe isn't what's being talked about in the article:

Southwest Center for Economic Integrity found that 67% of borrowers used their loans for general non-emergency bills.
 
2006-12-29 10:08:18 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how we penalize the less fortunate in our society by hammering them with high-interest loans, exorbitant fees for low-balance bank accounts and inefficient, low-quality products and services that break quickly or cost more in the medium- to long term than slightly more expensive or bulk options that frequently are only made available via premium retailers the poor don't see or don't have access to.

One could say that these are corporate inducements for the poor to work harder to improve their lot but really it just keeps them poor.
 
2006-12-29 10:08:53 AM
ChairmanKaga

The problem is that, once you reach that point, you already exhausted a million other options that should have been your warning to change.

You should have changed your life when you lost your credit cards. When you lost any friends who'd help you out in a bind. When you hit the overdraft limit at your bank. When you ran out of stuff to sell.

You should realize that you're screwing up and change your life long, long before you ever even look at a payday loan place.
 
2006-12-29 10:09:27 AM
I learned how to manage money and finance via The School of Hard Knocks.

For those of you with the benefits of parents, etc who taught you all this stuff up front, personal finance a really baffling game to people without said benefit.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled moral superiority.

.
 
2006-12-29 10:10:22 AM
vanity: Most checking accounts are free with direct deposit. There's absolutely no excuse for not having a checking account.


Do you think Juan across the border has direct deposit? Or do you think the employer prefers to pay his undocumented worker in cash?
 
2006-12-29 10:10:59 AM
gaspode

The person who said that was a fictous dickens charecture.

I could just as well quote Batman.
 
2006-12-29 10:11:07 AM
ChairmanKaga: When you have NO OPTIONS you do what you can to feed your children. What did you parents do then? How did they heat your home if they couln't buy 5 or 10 gallons of feul oil?

And yet I see *many* idiots who cannot afford to adequately care for their families, yet will spend X hundred on something completely useless.

Example: Deadbeat dad-$4k+ behind on his child support. Is seen maybe once a year. What does he do for xmas this year? Clothes? A years worth of health insurance? Some of that back child support?
No.

He buys the kid a little electric car. Maybe $250 at Walmart (or it fell off the back of a truck somewhere). And the mom and kid live in an apartment. Have nowhere to keep this thing. And he (and his mom) were pissed that they weren't treated like heroes for buying such an expensive gift.
He has 3 kids from 3 different moms.

Another clown, who I come into contact with, recently splashed out on a widescreen. To replace the previous widescreen that was lost in a fire. That he caused.
Meanwhile, his kids survive on the largesse from the various grandparents.

Gotta have that widescreen and crackberry, though.

Not all 'poor people' are simply noble souls down on their luck, just looking to feed their childre. A lot of them are there by their own hand.
 
2006-12-29 10:11:24 AM
Too bad we can't ALL be independently wealthy and living in Smitty's mom's basement with him!
 
2006-12-29 10:11:26 AM
bigdaddyhame

It never ceases to amaze me how we penalize the less fortunate in our society by hammering them with high-interest loans, exorbitant fees for low-balance bank accounts and inefficient, low-quality products and services that break quickly or cost more in the medium

What's really amazing is the politico-religionists' ignorance of this reality, in light of the multiple and very specific prohibitions on charging usurious rates to the poor we can find in the Bible.

.
 
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