BudTheSpud: I thought KKK members hated anyone but whites? Whats he doing cozying up to Arabs? Someone should ask him what he thinks of the black influence on society, then we'll really see some nuttiness, let alone his opinions on Jews.

In all fairness, David Duke is a FORMER member of the KKK. Here is the strategy that all media outlets use regardless of their political views. You take statements that are true and you get the least credible credible person on to the deliver the message. People immediately discount David Duke because of his past. By having him make the statement and reiterating his past involvement with the KKK, people are geared to discount is as a racist rant without consideration.

He's not wrong. He's just the wrong person to say it. Jimmy Carter is a credible person, and is making the same statements. It is much harder to make his point of view come off as racist ranting because the reality is it is not.

Wolf Blitzer, as I understand it, is a member of AIPAC. I don't give a shiat what lobbyist/special interest group you work for, if you are an international news correspondent or politician, it is a conflict of interest. The danger of ethical integrity failure should be questioned.

Clarky

I thought KKK members hated anyone but whites? Whats he doing cozying up to Arabs?

Technically he's cozying up to Persians, who are basically in the same ethnic group as caucasians.

The Klan was also very much against Catholics, historically.

this guy's hate is unbelievable.

/he would get locked up for this in canada

The only reason David Duke had anything remotely correct-sounding to say is because of the stupid laws in Europe against denying the Holocaust. The fools who made those laws gave this idiotic conference a good-sounding mask to hide behind.

Executive Monkey: The Klan was also very much against Catholics, historically.

So were the Puritans.

booyamcnasty: /he would get locked up for this in canada

THAT would actually further his cause. I still believe people should have the right to be stupid, and there's no country on earth that protects it better than the US. We do so because sometimes the smart get in the same boat.

Hayes

The only reason David Duke had anything remotely correct-sounding to say is because of the stupid laws in Europe against denying the Holocaust. The fools who made those laws gave this idiotic conference a good-sounding mask to hide behind.

Well duh but why did dose fools make dose laws?

Tatsuma: I love it when germans tell me how shadowy Jewish organizations control governments

Wow. Just Wow.

consdubya: Also, why is everything pre-1948 completely irrelevant?


the vast majority of Palestiniand are under 40, born after 1967, all they've known it the Israeli boot on their neck or up their ass. "The post 1967 situation is what fuels resentment among young, modern Arabs. The cycle of violence, the fact that Israel's actions are always labeled as a "response" while Palestine's are always labeled an "attack" in Western media, the occupation of territory, the sniping of children, and especially the fact that Western nations (esp. the U.S.) fail to reel in or pressure Israel -- instead giving them more and more money -- paints an ugly picture to mainstream Arabs and Muslims who are forming their political views and deciding where their sympathies lie. These are the people who could choose to become decent, religiously and politically open-minded adults, or could choose to become militant, al-Qaeda supporting terrorists or terrorist funders. They watch and what they see is not Israel acting because of what happened in 1947, but Israel calculatedly choosing to play into a cycle of violence when it clearly has the power and intelligence to do otherwise. What we know for certain is that Israel's methods of using disproportionate response against their attackers do absolutely nothing to stop the cycle of violence, but rather keeps it going. It is also clear that a significant portion of the IDF and Israel's right-wing government view Palestinian life as utterly expendable. It is disheartening to see people defend this. To defend it is to play into the worst kind of brainwashed mentality"


The cure for the the Middle-East conflict is well known and has been well known for decades.
- Clinton's Peace Plan, the Nusseiba-Ayalon Plan, the Saudi Peace Initiative, Bush's Road Map, Oslo, Taba summit are all pretty much the same.
there is very little difference between them,

They all include clear measures that Israel has to take in order to make peace:

1.Dismantle the settlements,
2. withdraw its soldiers and civilians from the occupied territories,
3. Create a viable Palestinian state,
4.find a solution for the Palestinian refugees' right of return.
5. Find a way to guarantee Israeli security. Altho' I belive having nukes addresses that.
6. A creative way to reward Israel for giving up what it feels it has won in war.

The problem is Israel refuses to take these steps peace
developing new plans is a waste of time.
Israel want to keep the West Bank
Israel has not dismantled a single settlement built there, and has never ceased to take Palestinian lands
The "by-pass roads,"
The "checkpoints,"
The relentless harassment of the Palestinian population, and, now the Apartheid Wall.
Aparthied South Africa



The West Bank


Jewish settlement population 1972- 2004



" We identify with the PLO because, just like ourselves, they are fighting for the right of self-determination. I support Israel's right to exist, but that doesn't mean that Israel has the right to retain the territories they conquered from the Arab world."

"Israel should withdraw from all the areas which it won from the Arabs in 1967, and in particular Israel should withdraw completely from the Golan Heights, from south Lebanon and from the West Bank."

Following his release from prison in 1990, Mandela said, "Almost every country in the world -- except Israel" had invited him to visit.
Israel's invitation came only in 1994, but then the peace process did not make a visit politic. However, he now decided to show a spirit of forgiveness and reconciliation.
"To the many people who have questioned why I came, I say: Israel worked very closely with the apartheid regime. I say: I've made peace with many men who slaughtered our people like animals. Israel cooperated with the apartheid regime, but it did not participate in any atrocities," he said.

booyamcnasty

this guy's hate is unbelievable.

/he would get locked up for this in canada

Well I's glad I ain't in Canada cuz you'll must hate free speech over dare. All hail Stalin.

Tatsuma: "No longer" existing?

There never was a "Palestine" country. How can it "no longer" exist?

By that rationale, there was never a country of Israel.

Wait.. why do we send Israel 4 million a year? Just wondering. Perhaps we are a bit one-sided.

audioholic

Well I's glad I ain't in Canada cuz you'll must hate free speech over dare. All hail Stalin.

Exactly. We stand for freedom of speech in this country, and that includes letting the dumbasses speak their minds. Just like David Irving.

/liberal/progressive
//hates these bastards
///they get their say
////America- F*CK YEAH! :)

Tatsuma

Zionism is a belief that Israel has a right to exist

Oh really? Then why don't they stay in Israel? This definition makes more sense to me;

In its current form Zionism seeks to dominate all of Palestine and the Middle East by means of violence and the threat of violence (using weapons manufactured and purchased with billions of dollars of "aid" supplied by the United States at taxpayer expense) and to maximize its influence in world affairs and in world history, principally by means of control of the government of the USA (primarily by blackmailing its many corrupt politicians), at the expense of the social wellbeing not only of the Palestinians but of the peoples of all lands.

Think about it.

Hickory-smoked If you can't name specifics, maybe it's all a load of bullshiat.

Of course, They just used those burning crosses to roast their marshmallows vertically. He's been caught being verbally racist just a few years ago so loving and tolerant he has become in his old age. BTW, he begged Ted Turner to be a CSA General in his "Gods and General" movie. His spots haven't changed

But if you think Robert Byrd truly believes in the equality between minorities and whites, go ahead. In your mind his father was a JC reincarnate. He's just learned to try and keep his mouth/views shut.

Who said he was a racist nationalist except you? Or that "racist" legislation must be the sole qualification to make your "tolerance" grade? Words to me are as important as actions for a politician. Duke never submitted any Federal bills (never in office) so is he off you criteria. as well?

Aside from "using the N-word" you ask?

He's just your kind of approved Democratic racist. It's your right.

IMO, he's the same as Duke ans Strom.

audioholic Tatsuma's not going to think on it; his whole goal is the expansion of Israel.

I don't beleive in Zionism. I don't beleive in worshipping invisible Gods or holy barren desert land. Israel is costing American taxpayers a fortune to maintain. Offer American sovereignty to Israelies and then pull all funding. Then we can let the Arab middle east DIAF fighting each other like they always do when there's no one else to fight.

Cerebral Ballsy

I don't beleive in Zionism. I don't beleive in worshipping invisible Gods or holy barren desert land. Israel is costing American taxpayers a fortune to maintain. Offer American sovereignty to Israelies and then pull all funding. Then we can let the Arab middle east DIAF fighting each other like they always do when there's no one else to fight.

Alright, but who gets the Temple Mount?

Now when anyone questions the role of the neocons in selling this war, their defenders will say "Well, I guess you and David Duke share something in common." Great. BTW, I went to Duke's site (my IP must be on some NSA list now), and surprise, surprise, he's still denigrating blacks, hispanics, non-Christians, and any non-white person. So I come down on it this way: Unless you're in denial, Jews have inordinate influence through their roles in high finance, the media, and politics. However, if the alternative is people like David Duke or Pat Buchanan, then maybe we should keep things as they are.

/thinks AIPAC should be registered as an agent of a foreign government;

Two grown men arguing about delusional nonsense. I thought I had seen paranoia before, but this takes the cake.

Everyone knows Ronald McDonald rules the world, idiots.

/Secretly controlled by Agent Smith

Cerebral Ballsy

Israel is costing American taxpayers a fortune to maintain.

But...but...aren't those wealthy American Jews who control the media, Hollywood, the banks, the jewelry stores, etc. the ones really footing the bill???


/am Jewish so I think I can make these kinds of jokes

moothemagiccow

Hooray! A link to ignorant nonsense!

Thank god I don't watch CNN. I'm not even going to repeat the nonsense he said about Israel and Iraq for fear that somebody might believe it just a LITTLE bit.

While you are not watching CNN you should try reading a book sometime. May I recommend this one;



It has like facts and stuff.

On the one hand, freedom of speech is fine and dandy.

On the other hand, debating whether or not something happened when the vast body of evidence (including victims and enforcers who went through it) points towards it occuring is pure douch-baggery, especially when the only point of this is to increase anti-semitec feelings and help people feel justified in hating a people.

Jews don't control the world. If they do, why have I never eaten matza?

presidentbeef

But...but...aren't those wealthy American Jews who control the media, Hollywood, the banks, the jewelry stores, etc. the ones really footing the bill???

Uh its really the taxpayers that are footing the bill. 160 billion dollars spent in Iraq so far and people wonder why the penny isn't worth anything.

audioholic

"like facts and stuff".

never have i heard a more accurate description of maureen "third column in a row on the type of sweater worn by presidential candidates" dowd.

Mnementh2230

Jews don't control the world. If they do, why have I never eaten matza?

Maybe cuz your not Jewish and he was saying the Jews control the US not the World unless you consider the US to be the World, which might be a better argument.

audioholic

Uh its really the taxpayers that are footing the bill. 160 billion dollars spent in Iraq so far and people wonder why the penny isn't worth anything.

Yes, those American Jews are also taxpayers. That's what I was attempting to get at.

jagrmeister if the alternative is people like David Duke or Pat Buchanan, then maybe we should keep things as they are.

To make a comparison between Pat Buchanan and David Duke is disingenuous.

Buchanan is an old school paleo-conservative. Duke' agenda is nothing like it. IMO, it's unfair, nothing alike, both assholes.

thinks AIPAC should be registered as an agent of a foreign government

Totally agree especially since their former top AIPAC officials (resigned because of it) are currently under indictment for espionage.

The only solution to this problem: Scientology.

presidentbeef: But...but...aren't those wealthy American Jews who control the media, Hollywood, the banks, the jewelry stores, etc. the ones really footing the bill???

Maybe they have Jewish accountants to provide tax shelters...

polecat_bastard

never have i heard a more accurate description of maureen "third column in a row on the type of sweater worn by presidential candidates" dowd.

I'd reply but I don't even know what you are trying to say. To me facts are like dates of events that happened and the people that were involved in them supported by evidence. Is that what you were saying?

Mnementh2230On the one hand, freedom of speech is fine and dandy.

On the other hand, debating whether or not something happened when the vast body of evidence (including victims and enforcers who went through it) points towards it occuring is pure douch-baggery, especially when the only point of this is to increase anti-semitec feelings and help people feel justified in hating a people.

European Courts have passed "hate speech laws" and mandatory prisonn for deviating from the standard orthodoxy of the Holocaust which has been subjective/political sometimes as a legal standard. Holland's courts have ruled that even 'the truth is no defense" in these cases.

What's going to cause more resentment, hatred, anti-semitics? some idiot spouting their revisionist nonsense like the moon landings were faked? The truth will always win out or is it better to make martyrs out of idiots? It worked for some in Landsberg Prison in the 1920's.

IMO Hate spech laws and controlling discourse are more dangerous than than the nut jobs and their nonsense? IMO, It was Duke's only legitimate argument. We're the West, we incorporated it into our laws and culture. we should stand for free speech. Iran cannot even allow it.

Clarky: Wow. Just Wow.

Wow, nothin'. You haven't been reading the thread. But I'll go through it all for you:

Tatsuma: I love it when germans tell me how shadowy Jewish organizations control governments

I thought this was an insanely unfair comment by Tatsuma, and I still think it is only because he's generalizing about Germans in the same manner he would find offensive elsewhere. But I know from past flamewars that he is responding to someone who is a) German b) not in line with Tatsuma's ideals. This leads to responses like yours:

Clarky: Wow. Just Wow.

And I'm right there with you. The Irony with a capital "I" is thick that someone would generalize like that, particularly someone who should know about it. What you missed was the response from the person in question (later in the thread but before you posted):

consdubya: If you and people like you keep up acting the way you are, you, and unfortunately your entire people, might be asked to hit the showers again very soon. Which would be a shame.

And then, I say: Wow. Just wow.

-We start a war because of WMD.
-We start a war because of links to terrorism.
-We find no traces of WMD.
-We find no traces of links to terrorism.
-We removed a monster from power
-We removed someone who was governing better than we currently are.
-We removed the fear the citizens of Iraq has of the government, allowing them to focus on their real problem... Their hatred for each other...in effect, starting a civil war.
-A vortex has opened up and every person who ever thought of being a terrorist views us as opportunists invaders.
-Our president and leaders are making absolutely no attempt to learn what motivates the hatred of the people we are fighting against.
-Our leaders are telling us that "terrorist" hate our way of life and want to see us fail... Acting completely uninterested in finding out the root cause in what really would drive people to this extreme.
-A large segment of our citizens are also uninterested. They believe the terrorist act only out of hatred...And view the answer to dealing with these savages as more force/military.
-Former KKK leaders meet with Zionist hating Iran...and demand "freedom of speech".. even if you may not like what they are saying..

So... While we are on the topic of idiots spewing off in a time such as these... I present my solution to Iraq.

Release Saddam and restore his power.
Allow him to restore peace.. Allow him to be a monster and use fear. Realize that "his monster ways" may of been exactly what it takes to prevent a civil war from breaking out..and he may of been doing exactly what it takes to prevent Iraq from breaking apart and turning into the vortex for terrorism and sh.t that is currently is. Take those billions of dollars that we have spent on attacking and war and spend it on feeding and rebuilding Iraq. Give the money to the Saddam controlled government, with an agreement, that him and America are going to stand hand in hand fighting terrorism and eventually changing Iraq into a democracy over time... a slow change that is not forced.. A change backed by Saddam, his government and America working as one for the good of Iraq and its people.

Hell while we are at it.

Lets go ahead and put some research into understanding why people hate us. Why rampant, 'at all cost' capitalism leads us into wars like this. Lets go out on a whim and consider that people aren't just randomly strapping themselves.. That they may be acting in a way that they consider logical.. that it may be because we did something that wasn't nice...

This is exactly what you get when you think linear in a game of chess. This is not checkers.

Understanding all sides is the only way we are going to save America.

Neurochemist

Hell while we are at it.

Lets go ahead and put some research into understanding why people hate us. Why rampant, 'at all cost' capitalism leads us into wars like this. Lets go out on a whim and consider that people aren't just randomly strapping themselves.. That they may be acting in a way that they consider logical.. that it may be because we did something that wasn't nice...

Word. But the research has already been done;



and its pretty farking scary.

I love when Neo-Nazis try to hijack political discourse they don't even belong to in order to advance their transparent agenda. "Hey, you know else hates Jews? Muslims in the Middle East! I'll just go down there and give some pep talk to my raghead friends. Y'all want to help me fight the Jews? Just lay your hands off my daughter." Seriously, that's what Duke has done. But does he offer a non-violent solution? No. Does he invite the oppressed Muslims to America to escape the terrible wrath of the J00Z? No! Why not? Oh yeah, America is only for Europeans, you silly brown people.

Neo-Nazis are no friends to Muslims-wanting-to-achieve-peace and Christian Zionists are no friends to Israelis-wanting-to-achieve-peace.

Isn't it a bit racist to call yourself the "chosen people" and divide everyone into goy's and Jews?

What's so wrong about assimilating? Are the goys really that inferior?

Who honetly thinks the Holocaust will happen again, or that persecution of Jews will ever be as bad as it was? So why do the Jews need a Jewish state?

Also, why did Jews steal my shadow? Will they give it back?

And since I haven't had my fill yet... we are still on the topic of idiots spewing off...

Lets allow Iran and all other countries to have strictly regulated, UN controlled nuclear reactors...that are under close guard by a coalition of international troops..Lets sell them energy at cost... Lets promote alternative power sources that do not pollute like oil. Lets enter into an agreement with Britain, Russia and China (and the rest of the world) that we are going to protect Iranian borders just like we do Israel, Kuwait, etc...In fact.. we are going to protect every countries border from invaders...Syrian, Iran, Israel, Pakistan, Iraq..etc...and if any one dares to act retarded, they know the wrath of the entire world is swiftly going to come down.. Lets tear down the Israeli borders and allow Jews and Palestenian's live amongst each other...Letting them realize the other side is human.. Hell.. every time some one blows themselves up, the Jews and the Pals can go out on the street and dance and celebrate...We'll allow the terrorism to make our unity stronger...viewing the bombs as a reason for the human race to come together and love, instead of divide... Realizing that this is by far the most effective way to stop further bombs..

Allow yourself to be vulnerable. Respect one another. Be a man and be the first to lower the sword..

But in the end, when this hell hole is burning down around us...

Remember..we had a choice:

Jimmy Carter/Gandhi: lower the sword, world peace, end rampant capitalism at the short-term expense of our economy.. think long term.... peace is a lot more profitable...

Or Bush....embrace the people who view Jimmy Carter as the worst President of all times because our economy went to hell when he stepped in and prevented rampant capitalism... rampant military growth.. and because he took the first step in lowering our countries sword...Which is viewed by many as weak quality, unworthy of a leader..

Embrace the side that calls themselves "Christians"... worships jesus christ... and then views Jimmy Carter and his malevolent actions as un-american and simply horrible.

Choose fear.. increase military spending..

evajyna

Your posts in this thread rocked my world.

FACT: Farkers enjoy discussing
FACT: If we agree there is no need to discuss
FACT: Farkers don't agree with each other

Clearly farkers are litigious people and all this hate isn't going to help make the world peaceful. It's the conspiracy of farkers who hate people, who hate freedom and would rather have censorship than controversial point of views. Farkers do control some media outlet and their agenda is to make fun of serious discussion by using silly distasteful images, endlessy repeating cliche jokes and humiliation of handicapped people.

Then again i don't know anyone who is jewish, my grandfather took care of that when he was in SS. So i realy can't tell if this guy is telling the thruth.

But he is keeping it real.

how many thrads a day do we need discussing the same arguement in different words?

To answer all the people who ask: Why does the US support Israel?:

Fundie christians. They are jonseying for the rapture and need Israel to exist for it to happen.

Crazy but true.

/At least that is part of the reason
//A large part of the reason Israel gets away with it
///Kinda perverse that your major backers are only doing so because of a belief that you will die and go to hell....

Where da boobies?

Cerebral Ballsy
we give to both sides

marylander: Cerebral Ballsy
we give to both sides

I expect Palestines Patriot missile systems, helicopters (AH 64As, AH 1Fs, AH 1Gs), the hundreds of tanks (M-60s) and armoured personnel carriers and the biggest fleet of American fighter aircraft outside the US (F-15s, F-16s, F-4s and A-4s) got lost in the post?

Once a racist always a racist.

Churchill2004: Supporting the RoC over the PRC doesn't mean we support every little thing that the RoC does, but on the whole, the RoC simply isn't "evil", so you can't call it the lesser of two evils.

I think your analysis of the situation is a little shallow. For one thing, I'm not sure that the sides are even really in conflict, so I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say we should "support" one over the other. Should we support the RoC over DPRK? Of course. And in that respect we should stand up to China, should they get involved and should they support the DPRK. In general I see China as becoming more and more independent in that situation as time goes on.

At any rate, China is a developing country and South Korea is not. So it seems obvious that China is going to have a less liberal/corrupt political system than South Korea. As their economy has grown over the past 10 years, their political system has grown more and more liberal, and will continue to do so. We ought to be encouraging this by supporting them and trying to get them on our side as much as possible.