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(YouTube) Video After CNN introduces him with 11 references to David Duke's membership in Ku Klux Klan, Duke responds by pointing out Wolf Blitzer's work as an AIPAC lobbyist. The fight gets better from there   (youtube.com ) divider line
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25371 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Dec 2006 at 10:37 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-12-15 01:29:44 AM  
I'll ask a question out of curiosity, as there seems to be many people here who are experts or at least very knowledgeable.

During WW2, the primary Jewish targets were the Jews that were established in Europe. Those Jews are predominantly Ashkenazi and were established geographically within Europe and at a later time than the establishment of Sephardic or Mizrahi Jews, which were established in the land of Israel (pre-Israel definition, way, way back).

However, with the creation of the state of Israel, the Jews that were harshly persecuted during WW2, Ashkenazi, established and populated Israel. However, I've read in a blog by a Sephardic Jew living in Israel that there is a large racial intolerance between Ashkenazi and Sephardic (of course, I have no personal knowledge of this).

So, why did the Ashkenazi Jews of Europe, who had no ancestral heritage in the land of Israel, establish themselves in Israel after WW2? Why not somewhere else?

It seems sort of strange to me, and I would like to know the motivations behind this.

/posted this before...
 
2006-12-15 01:29:47 AM  
thornhill,

What's likely is that there are lots of different opinions on this topic and they all have their own evidence, whether that evidence is the truth or not, they have it. The conference in Iran was supposed to open up conversation and debate on the topic... it has.

Also, I cited Wikipedia, not to support any of my arguments (I'm not really making any) but just to show that there are in fact many people who hold many different opinions of the number of killed which create a rather large margin.
 
2006-12-15 01:29:54 AM  
Being dependant on a crappy job where you're job security is not great due to the fact that anybody can do your job is not "sticking it to the man".

It's helping him out.


Genius
 
2006-12-15 01:31:18 AM  
pnjunction: You are saying they do not deserve to make enough money to raise a family. Your disdain for this entire class of people is disgusting.


I have no disdain for them at all. I think if you want to raise a family, you should get a better-paying job. It's fine for some kid paying his way through school to work as a janitor, it's not for a 35-year old married man with two kids. The minimum wage isn't intended to be the kind of wage you can raise a family with.
 
2006-12-15 01:31:33 AM  
BoozePenguin: Being dependant on a crappy job where you're job security is not great due to the fact that anybody can do your job is not "sticking it to the man".

It's helping him out.


Sounds like programmers as much as it does like janitors these days. Hell, not many people have the luxury of job security anymore, do they?
 
2006-12-15 01:32:24 AM  
Is it also a coincidence that my bosses, who are janitors and constantly complain of money troubles, are all crazy fundie Jezuns? Every custodian I've met at work, the shaitier their situation the more rabid their Jezosity. Correlation? Come on now, throw me a bone here.
 
2006-12-15 01:32:24 AM  
BoozePenguin: Being dependant on a crappy job where you're job security is not great due to the fact that anybody can do your job is not "sticking it to the man".

It's helping him out.


Fair enough. I'm with you there.
 
2006-12-15 01:32:35 AM  
Churchill2004: I have no disdain for them at all. I think if you want to raise a family, you should get a better-paying job. It's fine for some kid paying his way through school to work as a janitor, it's not for a 35-year old married man with two kids. The minimum wage isn't intended to be the kind of wage you can raise a family with

How dense are you? Whatever you may or may not think the minimum wage is intended for, millions of people desperately trying to raise a family are being paid in that fashion. This is the reality.
 
2006-12-15 01:33:49 AM  
Sorry Ice-Nine,

I'll just take it up the butt whenever someone says, "this is what happened" and not look at what other people are saying and make sure I don't get any other opinions on any other topic, because it "sickens" you.

/by the way, "We have always been at war with Eastasia"
 
2006-12-15 01:34:23 AM  
NewtLover
establish themselves in Israel after WW2?
Well, first you need to took before WWII

How much reading do you want to do? Even a cursory glance might take you longer than you expect.

/mid east amateur
 
2006-12-15 01:34:29 AM  
Ice-Nine

For all you people who are saying that it's a-okay for the nutjobs to spout their nonsense denials of the holocaust since we must protect free speech, I put this question to you:

What if I started preaching that slavery never happened in the US? What if people started believing it? What if so many people started believing it that it this so-called "slavery" was part of a vast african-american conspiracy?

Still okay?

Is it hate speech to argue that slavery never happened? What is the difference with denying the holocaust?


Nobody is denying the holocaust... the nutjobs are saying there's a conspiracy to inflate its magnitude.

I tell those folks to ask the many thousands with serials tattooed on em if it happened. It happened, and it was a catastrophe of humanity.

This wasn't about rewriting history, it was about the current day situation. The problem is anybody who has the audacity to hold an opinion other than what benefits Israel's elite is painted as a holocaust denier or anti-semite. It's healthy to question everything currently in progress... people in charge USE those of us who have not for their gain. It happens everywhere and to everyone... and the Jewish elite are no different than any other elite.

No, I don't think those managing Israel's position are currently too dirty- it's the bloodiest corner of the world. But to remove the ability to scrutinize them is to give them the potential to commit evil, and that ability has been taken away.
 
2006-12-15 01:34:31 AM  
"It's hard to imagine...those people down there....so poor...and...and so black..."

Best. Newsblooper. Ever.
 
2006-12-15 01:35:14 AM  
czarangelus: How dense are you? Whatever you may or may not think the minimum wage is intended for, millions of people desperately trying to raise a family are being paid in that fashion. This is the reality


The solution, then, is for those people not to be working minimum-wage jobs, not to raise the minimum wage to $30/hr.

Oh, I forgot, only well-connected middle class white men can get a job that pays more than $8/hr. Because the Man's keepin' 'em down, man.
 
2006-12-15 01:37:26 AM  
"Sounds like programmers as much as it does like janitors these days"

I'm only speaking about my personal situation, and of course I don't have 100% job security, but I did write the majority of the code for the project I'm working on, therefore I know the ins and outs of that program better then anybody else. Makes me confidant that so long as I keep doing my job they won't bother to hire somebody new to learn what I've been doing over the past year and a half.

Thats the difference. The skill I have makes me a valuable asset to the company. I'm not, of course, saying a janitor is not important.

But i can do his job, he can't do mine.
 
2006-12-15 01:37:52 AM  
Churchill2004: The solution, then, is for those people not to be working minimum-wage jobs, not to raise the minimum wage to $30/hr

Forehead smack. Yes, I'm sure these people are all working shiat jobs for shiat pay to be treated like shiat because they like it. They just love poverty and no health care and no future.
 
2006-12-15 01:37:59 AM  
BoozePenguin

I'm not justifying it, I live in Canada where janitors have health care, affordable child care and decent, although low wages.

I'm suggesting that the wages should be lower for something that requires no education, not that they should be condemned to a life of crushing poverty.


Sorry, I may have been a little harsh in your direction. I got a bit worked up when Churchill2004 suggested that janitors (and basically their entire class) shouldn't try to raise families.

I agree labourers have a decent deal here in Canada. It makes me sort of angry though (I'm sure I'm not alone) that more and more jobs are being outsourced to countries were workers are treated like shiat so that I can save a few dollars and corporations can make more profit.

Of course jobs requiring more education should pay more. I'm not a communist. If the degree I'll have worked 6 years to get wasn't going to be worth something, I never would have bothered.
 
2006-12-15 01:38:12 AM  
reading on class, US - since the thread went that way.

The Middle Class on the Precipice

The Middle-Class Trapdoor
 
C-J
2006-12-15 01:38:31 AM  
bbcrackmonkey: Every religion thinks God chose them to be special, idiot. Why do you make exceptions for Jews?
To be fair, Judaism is hereditary. I could become a christian if I so desired.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: You can't own property man!
I can because I'm not a stinking hippie
 
2006-12-15 01:38:34 AM  
czarangelus

Its sweet to be idealistic and all, but this is America and people are always gonna look out for themselves and their families first. It is just the way that it is, greed is what is best and what it worst about our country. And you can choose the way that you want to participate in it. I sincerley prefer the prospect a comfortable retirement than a lifetime of struggling because of refusing to play the game and worrying about how to stick it to the man. You can still be an idividual. Been there, done that.
 
2006-12-15 01:38:45 AM  
NewtLover
Good question, sounds like a research job to me. Too bad I don't give a crap about Israeli history insofar as it not being connected directly to Ottoman/ Persian History or I'd take the time to look it up. Ask a professor, maybe not Farkers. I mean if you actually want an answer to your question not just an opportunity to post a detailed question that makes you appear educated to strangers.
 
2006-12-15 01:39:38 AM  
"[a]ll for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

-Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations
 
2006-12-15 01:40:01 AM  
wow. nothing like a Blitzer bit to get the pot stirred up.
i thought it was funny that Duke pointed out that Blitzer was being biased, and that he is a lobbyist.
all news people are biased.
some cater to the things we want to hear, and we disagree with the news folks who dont say what we want.

this is nothing new.
except that Blitzer for once got put on the hotseat.
Duke has been out of the KKK for many years, and renounced his desire to be involved. I also think it is interesting that he is over there attending a conference for freedom of speech (AKA CIVIL RIGHTS). So, where does Blitzer get off talking bad about Duke, other than his own bias?

oh, and i do believe that the holocaust happened.

//i guess you can call me christian.
///i dont care what religion you are. i would rather just get along.
////dont force your god down my throat and i wont force my foot in your arse :-)

///have fun and happy holidaze
 
2006-12-15 01:41:08 AM  
Emperorsteele


"..what's wrong with supporting Isreal again?

Y'know, besides that it makes the entire mid-east hate us."

That's a very good question.
 
2006-12-15 01:41:58 AM  
pnjunction: Sorry, I may have been a little harsh in your direction. I got a bit worked up when Churchill2004 suggested that janitors (and basically their entire class) shouldn't try to raise families.


I... never said that. "Janitor" is not a class. I said if they want to raise a family, they should get a better job, and there is nothing preventing them from doing so.


I'll just toss this out there: What should the minimum wage be?
 
2006-12-15 01:43:15 AM  
The minimum wage should be $0.00
 
2006-12-15 01:44:35 AM  
"It makes me sort of angry though (I'm sure I'm not alone) that more and more jobs are being outsourced to countries were workers are treated like shiat so that I can save a few dollars and corporations can make more profit."

I hear yah man, it pisses me off big time.

The exploitation of third world conditions is disgusting. I've got this really good doc on modern day slave labor.. looks at coca plantations in Sierra Leone where 90% of the labor is slave labor. Like the real kind. And child slaves in pakistan and women slaves in the first world.

I hope you enjoy it.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-5716234192303887549
 
2006-12-15 01:44:38 AM  
Churchill2004: I'll just toss this out there: What should the minimum wage be?

Tie it to CEO pay. A CEO can never make more than 10 times the salary of the lowest paid salaried position in the company.
 
2006-12-15 01:44:55 AM  
Churchill2004: proleboy, got any references to back up that little theory, or did you just pull it out of your ass? Because that's what it sounds like.

"The Arabs were polytheists, believing in nature gods, demons and spirits, but as intercourse with the outside world increased, Jewish and Christian communities appeared in the area; there were Christian Arabs before there were Moslems [sic]." [p135 History of the World J.M. Roberts]

Crap...my friend just got here and this is as far as I got. It's been too long since I touched some of these books, but the degree on my wall says I know at least a little bit
 
2006-12-15 01:45:48 AM  
czarangelus:
The only country I see that is in danger of no longer existing is Palestine. You project every single thing.

They had a decade to set up a county when it was under Arab control. They chose not to.
 
2006-12-15 01:45:53 AM  
czarangelus

"[a]ll for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."

-Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations


Yeah, it must suck when it all comes crashing down, but, for now, I am enjoying the ride.
 
2006-12-15 01:46:18 AM  
Tatsuma: It is very clearly stated in this AGGADAH (and not HALACHA) that this is a bilateral contract between Jews and Goyim and that if the Goyim were to give Jews Eretz Yisrael willingly (which they did) that it would be ok to create a new state

Tats, I find this post fascinating not for the original Talmudic basis (I'm assuming) for the statement, but more for a question I have just from reading that sentence alone.

The goyim are obviously non-jews, but for the fulfillment of the bilateral contract, which ones does the contract refer to? Is the contract still valid if the goyim who were referred to originally don't necessarily exist anymore? Were the goyim a nation, a people, a religious group?

To carry it further, what about competing factions among the goyim? If one non-jew can fulfill the contract, then could the state of Israel, hypothetically, have come into justified being because a drunk goy said, "sure, take it!"

Or is the justification for the settlement born out of the fact that most of the land was purchased, which implies a sense of willingness? If so, what about land that was taken? I'm probably one of the few people who think that any land Israel gained from war other people started is theirs (hint: if you don't want to lose land, don't farking fark with your neighbor), but that land can hardly be said to have been willingly given up.

I'm genuinely curious because contracts are so important to our lives today, but when Judaism began it was one of the revolutionary ideas the Jews enforced: honoring an agreement with other people. It was a step up in the development of human civilization. Since this is obviously an older contract, I'm wondering about the modern interpretation of how it is to be fulfilled.
 
2006-12-15 01:46:43 AM  
Israel has a per capita income of $25,000us.

The West Bank per capita income is roughly $1,100us. In the Gaza Strip it drops to $600us.

Guess which one gets a majority of all our foreign aid (30% + in fact).

We are feeding Israel caviar and the people around them a shiat sandwich and we wonder why they hate us...
 
2006-12-15 01:47:12 AM  
LegacyDL

FYI people:

According to the book(s) Abraham was the father of both Judaism and Islam, the diff was that his wife was Jewish and his bootycall/maid was Muslim.

Which is why we have all this Judaism vs Islam thing today. Both religions are just fighting for their creator's love.


This makes absolutely no sense...unless you meant that Abraham's wife Sarah had his son Jacob (later renamed Israel) who was the father of the Israelites, while Abraham's son with Hagar was the father of what eventually become the Arabs. Sarah couldn't have been Jewish and Hagar couldn't have been Muslim...neither one of those was even close to existing at the time.

Geez. I'm not going into the whole "booty call" thing, either.
 
2006-12-15 01:48:33 AM  
Tie it to CEO pay. A CEO can never make more than 10 times the salary of the lowest paid salaried position in the company.

Yeah, like the male-anglo business owners and their jewish accountants are ever gonna let that happen.
 
2006-12-15 01:49:21 AM  
czarangelus: Tie it to CEO pay. A CEO can never make more than 10 times the salary of the lowest paid salaried position in the company.


Ah... because the reason your janitor isn't getting paid enough is because the CEO is taking all the money. I see.

The fact is, while it might make you mad, even the most aggregiously overpaid CEO isn't taking enough money to make a signifigant difference to a big corporation.

Besides, I hate to break it to you, not every job in the country is part of some big multi-national corporation with a ultra-rich CEO at it's head. What about an independently owned and operated restraunt? Under your scenario, the lowest-paid would get a hell of a lot less than what they get now.
 
2006-12-15 01:49:36 AM  
proleboy

Who denied the fact that there were Christian Arabs before the advent of Islam? I believe the Copts were around in Egypt long before the Muslim expansion.
 
2006-12-15 01:49:42 AM  
I felt more hatred against the journalist than the former klansman, based on the content of the video.

/Members of racist groups ought to be educated
//Members of the press ought to be burned alive, after watching their families burn alive first

///Who has more power to do harm, really
 
2006-12-15 01:49:58 AM  
Kant1:
The conference in Iran was supposed to open up conversation and debate on the topic... it has.

farking bullshiat. The leader of Iran doesn't wipe Isreal off the face of the map, he wants to wipe Jews off the face of the map. This conference was nothing more than an attempt to drum up support for that goal one step at a time.
 
2006-12-15 01:52:16 AM  
Churchill2004: The fact is, while it might make you mad, even the most aggregiously overpaid CEO isn't taking enough money to make a signifigant difference to a big corporation.

Cut out $60 million dollar golden parachutes and distribute it amongst 100,000 employees. You don't think that's a significant difference to people making $12 an hour scrubbing your damn toilet?
 
2006-12-15 01:52:18 AM  
OneEye:
Israel has a per capita income of $25,000us.
The West Bank per capita income is roughly $1,100us. In the Gaza Strip it drops to $600us.


So maybe they should spend more effort to build their own society and not as much trying to tear another down.
 
2006-12-15 01:53:12 AM  
EggSniper

Wow, that is really, really deep.
 
2006-12-15 01:53:18 AM  
BrotherAlpha: farking bullshiat. The leader of Iran doesn't wipe Isreal off the face of the map, he wants to wipe Jews off the face of the map. This conference was nothing more than an attempt to drum up support for that goal one step at a time.

Actually, the conference is a mockery of Western "free speech" values. They invited a man to speak who was imprisoned in Europe just because he published a book. Sure, it was a stupid, anti-semitic book. But nonetheless, they've done a good job of demonstrating the West's hypocrisy.
 
2006-12-15 01:53:51 AM  
No, the minimum wage should be $0.00 because having a minimum wage, i.e., a price floor, raises unemployment.

Also, the only people the winimum wage effects is teenagers and really really old people (but mostly just teenagers).

Have you really heard anyone surviving off $5.15 an hour? I don't mean pocket money, I mean food, bills, rent, etc.

Classical microeconomic theory clearly shows why the minimum wage causes unemployment. If someone is willing to work for $4/hour they can't, it'll be illegal. If they can't create $5.15 of productivity per hour, then they will not be hired, and therefore unemployed.

The minimum wage is a political ploy used by politicians to trick the poor (and most likely uneducated) and the people who don't know about economics, into thinking that they care about the poor. When in reality they are not only hurting some people, it won't do a damn thing for most people.
 
2006-12-15 01:55:54 AM  
Do the Jews control the minimum wage? hmmmmmmm.......
 
2006-12-15 01:56:27 AM  
czarangelus

I think it's rather hypocritical of a nation that imprisoned, brutally raped, beat and tortured a canadian-iranian journalist for taking a picture.

She got the Iranian treatment though. If she hadn't been Iranian at all she woulda just gotten thrown out.
 
2006-12-15 01:56:43 AM  
czarangelus:
They invited a man to speak who was imprisoned in Europe just because he published a book. Sure, it was a stupid, anti-semitic book. But nonetheless, they've done a good job of demonstrating the West's hypocrisy.

He book was hate speach. Hate speach = Terrorism.
 
2006-12-15 01:57:11 AM  
BrotherAlpha
You try to sound informed but you fail. Which ten years are you talking about? The years when the McMahon/ Hussein correspondence was attempting to establish an Arab state while the British zionists were already lobbying to establish a Jewish home in Palestine? Or are you talking about when Palestine was still under Ottoman/ Turkish control? Make sense of yourself.

Also the only threat that Iran poses is in their support of global Islamist organizations, the country itself is a third rate military power but I'm sure that won't stop the US from invading anyway. It never has before.
 
2006-12-15 01:57:40 AM  
I'm going to bed.
 
2006-12-15 01:57:42 AM  
CEO Pay Article
Link
In 2004, the ratio of average CEO pay to the average pay of a production (i.e., non-management) worker was 431-to-1, up from 301-to-1 in 2003, according to "Executive Excess," an annual report released Tuesday by the liberal research groups United for a Fair Economy and the Institute for Policy Studies.

That's not the highest ever. In 2001, the ratio of CEO-to-worker pay hit a peak of 525-to-1.

Still, it's quite a leap year over year, and it ranks on the high end historically. In 1990, for instance, CEOs made about 107 times more than the average worker, while in 1982, the average CEO made only 42 times more.

The cumulative pay of the top 10 highest paid CEOs in the past 15 years totaled $11.7 billion.

Link
The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.


/info for the flame war
 
2006-12-15 01:58:31 AM  
czarangelus: Tie it to CEO pay. A CEO can never make more than 10 times the salary of the lowest paid salaried position in the company.

Churchill2004
Besides, I hate to break it to you, not every job in the country is part of some big multi-national corporation with a ultra-rich CEO at it's head. What about an independently owned and operated restraunt? Under your scenario, the lowest-paid would get a hell of a lot less than what they get now.


I think he was talking about an upper limit on what CEOs can make relative to the rest of the employees, not that employees should only make 1/10th of what the CEO (or owner, I suppose) makes.
 
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