proleboy, got any references to back up that little theory, or did you just pull it out of your ass? Because that's what it sounds like.

Churchill2004: So your life goal... is to be a janitor with a philosophy degree.

It all makes sense now.

The only reason people think that being a janitor is a terrible job is because they aren't paid in compensation for the work they do. If being a janitor paid $30 an hour, it would be a respectable job. You are seeking to create an underclass of people by designating certain jobs as significantly less valuable than others. The fact that many janitors are actually working hard to try to feed their kids doesn't impress itself on you - "They should just go get another, better job." Thanks, Ebineezer.

skrewewe: The Jews control everything. We all know it. The Banks, the stores, the governments, teh internets. Just because some white trash loud mouth hick decides to speak his mind doesnt mean we need to come to the Jews defense. The Juuuus need no defense. They can make him look evil on the TV and we will believe it just because its on the idiot box. We are their cattle. We are being bred for slavery.

??
3.9 troll ? Or are you for real? the joooooos dont have worldwide meetings.
Meh.
/got trolled

czarangelus

You sound exactly like I used to. In 7th grade.

In a capitalist society, wages are almost always based upon the rarity of a person's skills and abilities, not on czarangelus' idea of what's "fair" (thank God).

People who clean toilets, therefore, do not deserve to be well-compensated, because anybody can clean excrement off of a toilet.

BoozePenguin: But that degree won't be worth the paper it's printed on if it can't get you a good job to support a family with.

Well, if it's impossible to do that in our wonderful "service economy," then that's the way it is. Tens of millions of people in this country are struggling to make ends meet and do not have their needs met. Why should I expect myself to not wind up in that position? Because I'm white and had middle class parents? Well, that doesn't cut it.

mdalli: People who clean toilets, therefore, do not deserve to be well-compensated, because anybody can clean excrement off of a toilet.

Maybe you should. Teach you a little farking humility. I've done it for pay in my day, and my parents were right. It taught me a lot of valuable lessons about the way shiat is set up.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers
Actually, I hold back with Tatsuma.

No, it's not hate-speech to argue whether slavery happened or not. It's idiotic because of the tons and tons of evidence to contradict you.

The holocaust, however, is not backed up by so much evidence. The numbers of "Jews" who died in the holocaust rises and falls throughout the years. That, in and of itself is ok, and not valid proof of whether or not it existed.

What David Duke is saying in the video is that it is illegal to say the holocaust did not occur in Germany. You can run around all you want in America and say, "Whitemen were the slaves of blackmen." and you wouldn't go to jail. But in Germany, if you say, "the holocaust did not exist" then you will go to jail. David Duke is saying that is breaching the right of free speech, which I am 100% in agreement with.

Whether or not the holocaust happened is a moot point to argue. There were concentration camps, people died, so yes it happened. What one can argue is the number of people who died, and that is what this conference in Iran was mostly about.

"by designating certain jobs as significantly less valuable than others"

cutting the lawn is not neurosurgery, nore does it require years of dedicated study to learn.

THEREFORE, CUTTING THE LAWN DOES NOT PAY AS WELL AS NEUROSURGERY.

And rightfully so. if a 12 year old kid can do it, then it shouldn't pay as well as something you need to go to med school for.

Makes sense?

It takes too long to keep up with this dammed thread.

I'm a Mid East History major, a liberal and psuedo-intellectual so it is needless to say that I support the plea of the Palestinians. I understand the Israeli position but I don't nessicarilly support it. European Jews wanted/ needed their own state so that they would no longer be an oppressed minority in a hostile environment, I get it. I guess that also means that the Jews are due for a little oppression-making of their own, or not. I don't think that two wrongs make a right here but again, I'm a little biased.

Also let's remember that right before WWII more jews were leaving Israel then coming in. The Holocaust may not have been the motivating force behind the establishment of Israel but without it the state would have never lasted. I'm speculating of course but the numbers don't lie. Just when you thought the Holocaust couldn't get any worse!

The saddest part about all this is that the main reason behind the establishment of Israel was the constant oppression of the Jews in European/Christian states but at the same time Jews fared much better while under Ottoman/ Muslim states. The world is funny that way, not ha ha funny but like death and distruction funny.

czarangelus: You are seeking to create an underclass of people by designating certain jobs as significantly less valuable than others.


Dude, I told you, keep your words out of my mouth. Go find a girlfriend if you want to put your junk in someone else's mouth.
"They should just go get another, better job."

Yes, they should, and they can. That's the beauty of our system. There are plenty of people who don't even have a high school degree that have far better jobs than being a janitor.

Nobody should be trying to raise a kid on a janitor's salary, and nobody is being forced to. We have a very open job market, and no one is being forced to work as a janitor for lack of a better job being available.

Philosophy majors is bad thing? Since when?

czarangelus: "Maybe you should. Teach you a little farking humility. I've done it for pay in my day, and my parents were right. It taught me a lot of valuable lessons about the way shiat is set up."

Blah, blah, blah. I've cleaned plenty of toilets, and much, much worse. So save it. I'm trying to introduce you to something called "reality".

My point is that your sense of reality got stunted at approximately the junior-high level, just like all leftists/ socialists.

czarangelus: It taught me a lot of valuable lessons about the way shiat is set up.


No, it didn't, it made you bitter that you didn't get paid what you thought was "fair".

"the numbers of "Jews" who died in the holocaust rises and falls throughout the years."

source?

Ex high ranking Nazi Adolf Eichmann put the number at 6 million. Is his testimony valid?

You can run around all you want in America and say, "Whitemen were the slaves of blackmen."

Mediterranean whites were slaves of North African blacks; over 1 million were taken for that purpose by Moorish raiders.

Churchill2004: Nobody should be trying to raise a kid on a janitor's salary, and nobody is being forced to. We have a very open job market, and no one is being forced to work as a janitor for lack of a better job being available.

Right, they could be a McDrone at Best Buy or McDonald's or Olive Garden or Target. You know how most people get professional jobs? Knowing somebody. And when you don't know anybody, you don't know anybody. I'm worried about how I'm going to get a job in Santa Cruz in a week. I don't know anyone there - will I be condemned to become just another McSerf? Maybe, I don't know. But the other option is worse, submitting to the Authorities.

Kant1:

The holocaust, however, is not backed up by so much evidence. The numbers of "Jews" who died in the holocaust rises and falls throughout the years. That, in and of itself is ok, and not valid proof of whether or not it existed.

Wow, just wow. The Nazis anal bookkeepers. They did a very good job tracking who they killed.

Churchill2004: Free exchange of ideas is essential to any democracy. Period.

One unfortunate reality is that these ideas are not fomenting in a democratic country by any stretch, and furthermore are being "examined" in a country whose gov't has called for nothing less than the destruction of a Jewish state.

This is the yelling "fire" in a crowded theater argument.

There has to be some limit in freedoms of speech, because as the man says: The pen is mightier than the sword. Of course he was talking about using speech in positive ways instead of violence, but what about when it substitutes for violence. I think this applies to most rhetoric, in fact. Speech is NOT just words. When it is a distortion of history for violent ends, it becomes a weapon, and thus should be afforded no proctection under the 1st whatsoever.

This is another gambit in the chess game Iran is/has/and probably will always/be playing for the elimination of the state of Israel.

BoozePenguin: "the numbers of "Jews" who died in the holocaust rises and falls throughout the years."

source?

Ex high ranking Nazi Adolf Eichmann put the number at 6 million. Is his testimony valid?

Because you know, when you're on trail for crimes against humanity, you tend to inflate the number of how many people you killed in order to impress people.

czarangelus: Right, they could be a McDrone at Best Buy or McDonald's or Olive Garden or Target. You know how most people get professional jobs? Knowing somebody. And when you don't know anybody, you don't know anybody. I'm worried about how I'm going to get a job in Santa Cruz in a week. I don't know anyone there - will I be condemned to become just another McSerf? Maybe, I don't know. But the other option is worse, submitting to the Authorities.

I need to preface this by saying I don't have a great job, but it is clearly better than a McJob, and I couldn't disagree with you more, I put in some hard work, looking at job boards, and doing follow-up until now I have my foot in the door in the industry I want to work in.

czarangelus

Keep hatin' the man, dude. Its gonna get you far in life. Do they teach anything about self-fufillling prophecies in that school of yours?

"Because I'm white and had middle class parents? Well, that doesn't cut it"

With a little bit of motivation you could have focused you're education on something *practice* and minored in philosophy. Nobodies forcing you to enter the service sector, you're doing that yourself.

czarangelus:

With the McChip you have on your McShoulder, I sure nobody is foolish enough to hire your whiny, entitlement-mentality McButt.

And, BTW, I'm a highly-paid professional, and I didn't "know somebody". I moved to Seattle 6 years ago, where I had no contacts, no family and no history. I had a good skill set and a good attitude.

Ice-Nine: There has to be some limit in freedoms of speech


Absolutely not.

I agree that this conference in Iran is hardly an example of free speech, but if some people wanted to get together and have the same conference in Chicago, they should be able to.

Denying the holocaust puts nobody in any physical danger.

czarangelus: Right, they could be a McDrone at Best Buy or McDonald's or Olive Garden or Target. You know how most people get professional jobs? Knowing somebody. And when you don't know anybody, you don't know anybody. I'm worried about how I'm going to get a job in Santa Cruz in a week. I don't know anyone there - will I be condemned to become just another McSerf? Maybe, I don't know. But the other option is worse, submitting to the Authorities.

Woo, you're right, there's no way you can get a job at farking Best Buy unless you're well-connected.


Jesus, you really should try the real world. It's nice out here.

Churchill2004

Hey! I wipe toilets for a living! I actually make a pretty good wage at it, easy work but I wouldn't consider it my career. Then again some people don't have the same choices that I did. Some people have kids to feed and enjoy having consistant housing so they have to be janitors. That's reality and our job market sucks unless you want to work at a gas station/ Stab and Grab in that case cleaning up shiat beats dodging gat blasts.

/I talk like the kids today

BoozePenguin,

That's the point. What if he pulled it out of his ass? Or, he could be spot on.

Here's an article that says of the 6 million killed, 3 million were christian: http://www.holocaustforgotten.com/Lucaire.htm

Here's a quote from Wikipedia "The Holocaust": It is commonly stated that approximately six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, though estimates by historians using, among other sources, records from the Nazi regime itself, range from five million to seven million.

Also, what exactly was the criteria of a Jew that the Nazi's used?

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I'm not saying the holocaust did or did not happen. I'm saying it could have been 3 million killed or 11 million killed and the only way to know the truth is to actually debate about it without being called "anti-semitic" or being laughed at by those who "know" they're right.

BoozePenguin: With a little bit of motivation you could have focused you're education on something *practice* and minored in philosophy. Nobodies forcing you to enter the service sector, you're doing that yourself.

Yeah! Something *practice*! That would show those nobodies!

mindbuzz: Keep hatin' the man, dude. Its gonna get you far in life. Do they teach anything about self-fufillling prophecies in that school of yours?

No, I know all about that. Look, in this whole war between me and the man thing I want to clear something up - I didn't start it! I would have been a happily, blind, trusting, law abiding consumerist if the Man hadn't started shiat.

BoozePenguin: With a little bit of motivation you could have focused you're education on something *practice* and minored in philosophy. Nobodies forcing you to enter the service sector, you're doing that yourself.

I believe that philosophy served me better than all the business degrees offered by this school serve their purchasers. I think I learned more, came to understand the world better, and had additional time to explore my own interests by doing something I was good at.

And as far as there being more evidence supporting slavery than the Holocaust, are you sure?

We have survivors, guards, and liberating soldiers who are still alive to recount tales. We have pictures. We have tattoos. We have historical records of the atrocities committed at these camps. We have ovens, the chemicals used in them, the traincars used to herd the victims 100s at a time.

Do we have that with slavery? Not nearly as much in terms of physical evidence.

And yet by your own admission, Kant1, people will think you are crazy if you attempt to deny slavery existed.

Ask yourself why that is?

And then ask yourself if you really think it isn't hurtful to deny that the holocaust happened.

evajyna: Some people have kids to feed and enjoy having consistant housing so they have to be janitors.


There are plenty of ways to feed your kids in between jobs. Sorry, I ain't buying that argument.

Churchill2004
There are plenty of ways to feed your kids in between jobs. Sorry, I ain't buying that argument.

Name three that don't involve Whoring.

Kant1:

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. I'm not saying the holocaust did or did not happen. I'm saying it could have been 3 million killed or 11 million killed and the only way to know the truth is to actually debate about it without being called "anti-semitic" or being laughed at by those who "know" they're right.

What's more likely: people like David Duke spend years in the German archives researching this answer, or they just pull it out of their ass?

"submitting to the Authorities"

You already have kiddo, haven't you? You've designated yourself a life of servitude to make somebody else rich. Isn't that submitting to the man? It's not like you're self sufficicant. You're just becoming dependant on somebody with alot more money then you to make it pay check to pay check.

Did subby just compare support of Israel with support of White Supremecy?

And doesn't "fight" imply that it's two-sided? As opposed to a guy being a dumbass in front of an interviewer?

*practice* == *practicle*

fark...

Kant1:

Here's a quote from Wikipedia "The Holocaust": It is commonly stated that approximately six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, though estimates by historians using, among other sources, records from the Nazi regime itself, range from five million to seven million.

And let's not start citing Wikipedia

czarangelus

No, I know all about that. Look, in this whole war between me and the man thing I want to clear something up - I didn't start it! I would have been a happily, blind, trusting, law abiding consumerist if the Man hadn't started shiat.

What happened? PlayStation break?

Mdalli
And, BTW, I'm a highly-paid professional, and I didn't "know somebody". I moved to Seattle 6 years ago, where I had no contacts, no family and no history. I had a good skill set and a good attitude.


No, no. Cuttt!

it's like this:

I am a highly payed proffesional who moved to Seattle,

So i am really getting a kick outta these replies...

/yeh right, get back to flipping them burgers.

Churchill2004

I don't think people who are raising kids should be employed as janitors to begin with. Some jobs are meant for people who support only themselves.

We need janitors (and retail workers, truck drivers, assemply line workers, etc...). We need many of these people in our economy. Until we have robots that do all of our dirty work for us, we need laborers to get things done. You are saying they do not deserve to make enough money to raise a family. Your disdain for this entire class of people is disgusting.

Right now the rage is sending these crap jobs over to Asia where people aren't paid as much and are treated like shiat. There is little opportunity to get better jobs over there. Do those folks deserve to make enough to raise families? Do they deserve safe working conditions and reasonable hours or any of the other rights that workers are entitled to in western countries? Apparently not.

BoozePenguin

And what sort fo education do you need to be a janitor? You can do that job as a high school drop out.

Again, we can't all have jobs that make use of higher education. Somebody has to do menial work and I think they deserve much more respect than they get from most assholes trying to justify their shiatty wages.

Churchill2004 Oh, and by the way, most Israelis were opposed to the invasion of Iraq.

Also
2006
In Canada and Britain, 73 per cent and 71 per cent of respondents believe the coalition effort was unjustified, but only 34 per cent of respondents in Israel concur.

In hindsight, do you think that the United States was justified in its decision to invade Iraq? Israel - Yes 59% No 34%

So in 2003 a majority of Israelis were for the iraq war, and in this year (2006), a majority is still for it, even in hindsight.

Where did you get your facts from?

BoozePenguin: You're just becoming dependant on somebody with alot more money then you to make it pay check to pay check.

He's right. You should try and get as much money as possible.

Then you win!

And another thing. This to the "Devil's Advocates" out here who aren't saying the holocaust either happened or didn't...

Do you really think this so-called fact-finding conference is motivated by true interest in researching the holocaust? I mean, do you REALLY believe that? Really and truly?

I mean, it just...I'm sorry, that sickens me...that people can honestly play "Devil's Advocate" and say well, hey, maybe the fine people of the KKK and Iran's hard-liner clerical party are going to come together, no agenda in mind whatsoever, and try to figure out what really happened in Europe in the 1940s...

You might as well join them. Sounds like you've made up your mind to me.

"trying to justify their shiatty wages."

I'm not justifying it, I live in Canada where janitors have health care, affordable child care and decent, although low wages.

I'm suggesting that the wages should be lower for something that requires no education, not that they should be condemned to a life of crushing poverty.

thornhill
What's more likely: people like David Duke spend years in the German archives researching this answer, or they just pull it out of their ass?

What you talk? I'm sure David Duke and his croanies have dedicated their lives to unbiased, true historical research. They seem like upstanding citizens looking for the truth, not looking to support some kind of agenda.

When did white supremecists start getting computers in their trailers, anyway?

BoozePenguin: I'm suggesting that the wages should be lower for something that requires no education, not that they should be condemned to a life of crushing poverty.

Millions of Americans with full-time jobs live in crushing poverty without health care, child care, or decent wages. I don't know how my countrymen have become so blind to the well-being of their fellow citizens.

"Then you win!"

no, then you have financial freedom.

Being dependant on a crappy job where you're job security is not great due to the fact that anybody can do your job is not "sticking it to the man".

It's helping him out.

you cant handle the truth!

/all i got so far