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(Detroit News)   School district requires choir groups to perform three secular holiday songs for every religious Christmas carol they sing   (detnews.com) divider line 167
    More: Asinine  
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3559 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Dec 2006 at 3:01 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-12-14 11:25:08 AM
How childish we've become. This is like little Bobby and Susie complaining to mom about who has more lima beans on their plate.
 
2006-12-14 11:26:29 AM
I don't think there are that many secular Cristmas songs.
 
2006-12-14 11:28:38 AM
I don't think there are that many secular Cristmas songs.

The vast majority have nothing to do with God, Jesus, or any other religious figure. Unless you count a fat guy in a red suit or talking snowman as a religious figure. Which would be weird.
 
2006-12-14 11:29:23 AM
Jingle Bells
Santa Claus is Coming to Town
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer
 
2006-12-14 11:30:07 AM
Good thing the school district has solved all issues pertaining to literacy, nutrition and exercise so that they can focus on this.
 
2006-12-14 11:31:37 AM
I don't think there are that many secular Cristmas songs.

Deck the Halls, Jingle Bells, Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer, Good King Wencselcasjdasifdsf, Winter Wonderland, Santa Claus is Coming to Town, I Saw Three Ships, Silver Bells, Frosty the Snowman, The Twelve Days of Christmas... Just off the top of my head.
 
2006-12-14 11:32:40 AM
People are just dumb. I was in band for a couple years in high school, and as most schools do, we had a winter concert. None of our song selections were holiday oriented in anyway, so that wasn't a problem. But this Jewish kid who sat next to me tried to raise a big stink about the poinsettias that the band boosters or someone put on the stage for a bit of decoration.

The kid was (and probably still is) a moron and was trying to say they are a specifically Christmas flower, and he was insulted by their presence on stage.
 
2006-12-14 11:32:40 AM
(kyle)
i have a litle dradle
i made it out of clay
and when its dry and ready
with dradle i shall play
dradle dradle dradle i made you out of clay
dradle dradle dradle with dradle i shall play

(cartman)
heres a little dradle thats small and made of clay
but im not gonna play with it cuz dradles freakin gay
jews......play stupid games
jews......thats why there lame
jews......play stupid games
jews......thats why there lame

(stan)
ill try to make it spin
it fell ill try again

(dad)
courtney cox......i love you
coutrney cox......your so hot on that show
 
2006-12-14 11:33:25 AM
While I think any sort ratio is stupid...I could at least understand 1:1. 1:3 WTF?

Stupid P.C. horseshiat.
 
2006-12-14 11:35:33 AM
1:3 WTF?

I'm betting that the ratio of secular to religious Xmas songs is significantly higher than 3:1, so this actually guarantees over-representation of religious songs.

But, somehow, it will be turned into an example of anti-Christian persecution.
 
2006-12-14 11:38:10 AM
Nabb1: The Twelve Days of Christmas...

I believe they can get by with just doing 4 of the days along with 3 other songs.

But, for every religious song performed by the nine choral groups, 3.33 others have to be secular yuletide offerings as required under a school district's policy.
 
2006-12-14 11:40:33 AM
kronicfeld

From TFA:

But, for every religious song performed by the nine choral groups, 3.33 others have to be secular yuletide offerings as required under a school district's policy.

I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion.
 
2006-12-14 11:42:23 AM
Or are you saying there are just more religious Christmas songs in general?
 
2006-12-14 11:48:47 AM
kronicfeld: But, somehow, it will be turned into an example of anti-Christian persecution.

I think quite the opposite. From that ratio, we can also infer that 1 Christian = 3 Non-Christians. Clearly Christians are more valuable.
 
2006-12-14 11:49:08 AM
Or are you saying there are just more religious Christmas songs in general?

My guess is there are more SECULAR songs in general, and probable more than three SECULAR songs for every one RELIGIOUS song. Therefore, the 1:3 ratio of religious:secular would mean that, as compared to the entire population of Christmas songs, there will be a disproportionately high representation of religious Christmas songs in this performance.
 
2006-12-14 11:55:54 AM
Kanyon: Stupid P.C. horseshiat.

I totally agree. If one takes the time to check, many of the Christmas Carols were written by the great composers. Some examples are: Joy to the World, words by Isaac Watts, melody by Handel, Hallelujah Chorus, Handel, Hark, the Herald Angels Sing, Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy, (who converted to Christianity from Judaism) In Dulce Jubilo,
I would rather hear a well performed carol any time rather than some shiat such as "Holly Jolly Christmas" I shudder at just the thought of Burl Ives singing that piece of crap.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2006-12-14 11:57:32 AM
Frosty the Snowman

Frosty the Snowman,
is a fairytale, they say.
He was made of snow,
but the children know
how he came to life one day.
.
.
.
Down to the village,
with a broomstick in his hand,
Runnin' here and there,
all around the square,
sayin', "Catch me if you can."
.
.
.
Hmm, Frosty the Snowman,
had to hurry on his way,
But he waved goodbye, sayin' "Don't you cry,
I'll be back again some day."



Frosty is obviously an allegory for Jesus, QED.
 
2006-12-14 12:04:06 PM
kronicfeld
My guess is there are more SECULAR songs in general, and probable more than three SECULAR songs for every one RELIGIOUS song. Therefore, the 1:3 ratio of religious:secular would mean that, as compared to the entire population of Christmas songs, there will be a disproportionately high representation of religious Christmas songs in this performance.

Ahh I see your point now. You may be right (I don't know what the ratio is) but dividing songs out based their ties to religion seems silly altogether.

I agree with NYC 50's fan stance that I would just rather hear a well put together performance with quality music regardless of whether or not the songs are secular or religous.
 
2006-12-14 12:10:04 PM
Kanyon: just rather hear a well put together performance with quality music regardless of whether or not the songs are secular or religous.

But that would be common sense. School boards aren't aware of that concept.
 
2006-12-14 12:19:25 PM
What the hell happened to us? Why did we have to make everything so god dammed complicated?

Growing up, I lived in a small town in Ohio. It had a surprising amount of Jehovahs Witnesses. When we had our XMas concerts, those kids sat out of the practices, they were allowed to study, go out on the playground, etc. The night of the concert, the JW families didn't come. No one complained they weren't included & no one razzed them for not participating.
 
2006-12-14 12:23:58 PM
When I joined my high school choir my junior year, I was the only Jew there so they added in a song in Hebrew to, I dunno, make me feel better about the 12 other songs about Jesus.

Honestly, I didn't care either way.
 
2006-12-14 12:32:10 PM
themnemosyne: Hearing a chorus of goyim slaughter Hebrew probably wasn't too pleasant either.
 
2006-12-14 12:40:52 PM
themnemosyne

Makes me think of a point... you see a lot of Christians and Muslims who, whether politically, verbally or violently, want to make sure you know what religion they are, and that they don't approve of you not sharing those beliefs.

Most other religions/belief systems, eh, not so much. And I don't think thats just because there's less of them. Obviously, if you ask them, they'll let you know what they believe and explain it to you. But, they generally don't get in your face about it, or come after you first.
 
2006-12-14 12:51:43 PM
As a decorated soldier in the War on Christmas, even I do not approve of this bullshiat.
 
2006-12-14 12:54:32 PM
The 30 percent rule is a 10-year-old policy that erupted in controversy in September when a visiting choir from Germany, arranged through prestigious Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp, was told to limit its sacred selections during a school performance.ever since partisan pundits have turned religion and politics into a sporting event.

Fixed.
 
2006-12-14 01:25:34 PM
I would love to see the math behind the 3:1 rule. Well you see we find that the religiousity pions have a residual decay rate of 12 minutes which would mean that one average 3 secular songs would be needed so that we don't reach a religiousity pion point of critical mass wherein people start spontaneously converting to jebus.
 
2006-12-14 01:41:45 PM
Diogenes: Hearing a chorus of goyim slaughter Hebrew probably wasn't too pleasant either.

Heh...I had to teach the entire class the proper pronunciation. It sucked, because you could tell that most everyone just did not care.
 
2006-12-14 02:17:40 PM
themnemosyne it couldn't be any worse than our choir teachers penchant for teaching a bunch of small town Michigan kids gospel songs. It was like The Osmonds do Al Green. YEEEEECCHHHH
 
2006-12-14 03:05:07 PM
Either don't have the christmas concert, or let the kids decide what they want to sing. I mean, are they being forced into the choir?

Some people....
 
2006-12-14 03:06:55 PM
I think that it is sad that we have come to a point where I almost want to congratulate the district for allowing ANY religious reference.

Many districts now have a 'Winter Concert' where they are not allowed to sing any songs that refer to religion.
 
2006-12-14 03:08:41 PM
People who are easily offended deserve to be offended.
 
2006-12-14 03:09:16 PM
Okay, I'd love to hear the meeting where they came to this decision. 3:1? So it's wrong only if you do it 26% of the time? Can we get that applied to other rules? Like drug laws?

Either you can sing Jesus songs in school or you can't. Simple solution: if you want to perform at school events where attendance is mandatory, no Jesus.
 
2006-12-14 03:09:20 PM
President Raygun: I would love to see the math behind the 3:1 rule.

Only you could turn a boring non-issue religious flamewar into a boring mathematically diatribe.

Well done!
 
2006-12-14 03:12:09 PM
I hope they do "Frosty the Blowman"!
 
2006-12-14 03:13:55 PM
Plus, they do a kick-ass rendition of Marilyn Manson's "The Beautiful People". It rawks...holiday-style.
 
2006-12-14 03:14:45 PM
Howell Public Schools is one of a handful of districts statewide that limits the amount of religious selections that can be performed.

Doesn't anyone (even those whose job it is to WRITE English) know the difference between number and amount these days?
 
2006-12-14 03:15:02 PM
Okay my compassion for other religions was checked at the door a long time ago.

It is farking "CHRISTMAS!" America ia Christian country get over it! How the fark is singing a Christmas Carol going to influence anyone?

This reminds me of the retards that did not want their kids listening to Black Sabbath when I was in high school. My response to them was if their precious child could be infleunced by Black Sabbath he had bigger problems than listening to a rock band.

If a Christmas Carol offends you, then you going to have a pretty miserable life when you get out in the real world.

Intellectually bankrupt, attention whores should be the poster children for capital punishment.
 
2006-12-14 03:15:06 PM
all the jesus songs are really really bad unless sung by bony m... first noel, crap, away in a manger, crap......FROSTY THE SNOWMAN! GET THE PARTY STARTED!!!!! the school board is the cool board, thats all.
 
2006-12-14 03:15:16 PM
Diogenes - How childish we've become. This is like little Bobby and Susie complaining to mom about who has more lima beans on their plate.

Nailed it right out of the gate.

What's even better are the 'they started it' arguments.

Either way, I fear we're now stuck in a never-ending spiral of assholes of all stripes trying to get the last word.
 
2006-12-14 03:15:42 PM
O they sailed into Bethlehem,
On Christmas day, on Christmas day,
O they sailed into Bethlehem,
On Christmas day in the morning.
...
And all the angels in Heav'n shall sing,
On Christmas day, on Christmas day;
And all the angels in Heav'n shall sing,
On Christmas day in the morning.


You guys have good points about how most of these songs are secular, but I Saw Three Ships is definitely not secular.

And I think that comparing Frosty to Jesus is kinda... too much.
 
2006-12-14 03:15:43 PM
Oh come on. When it comes to religion in schools I don't have the highest tolerance, But music is just a form of art. The songs are sung in the school because they're art, not to indoctrinate the heathens and show them the way of Jeebus.

/Is Jewish
//Threatened not to sing in a public school concert if teacher wouldn't let the group sing Ave Verum Corpus
///Hail Bob the Almight and His Sandwich Maker
 
2006-12-14 03:16:00 PM
School Administrators =

blipvert.smugmug.com
 
2006-12-14 03:18:05 PM
Nabb1
I Saw Three Ships

You've never actually heard this song have you?
 
2006-12-14 03:18:42 PM
Why care if people become offended, it is there problem not yours. My music teacher in high school said this best to the school board. "When they produce good music for the other religions then I will start singing them." He hasn't to this day had one non Christmas song to date in his holiday show.
 
2006-12-14 03:18:57 PM
I can't believe that such a large percentage of people have allowed themselves to get upset over this "War on Christmas" crap. I am seriously disappointed in the human race.

That 25% of Americans are retarded figure can NOT be accurate. It must be more.
 
2006-12-14 03:19:30 PM
Does this 3:1 ratio hold for secular/religious Ramadan carols as well?
 
2006-12-14 03:20:04 PM
I was a choir geek in high school. The more sophisticated, complex, and impressive (if you're into choral music...) songs tended to be quite old, as I recall, usually Renaissance-era stuff, and almost always religious in nature. It bugged me at the time, but in retrospect that's just how it is. It has less to do with "establishment of religion" issues than with finding appropriate material for more advanced students to learn, IMO.

This rule, it is no good.
 
2006-12-14 03:20:15 PM
I'm fairly liberal but this is just ridiculous. Good thing we don't teach architectural history in high school or we'd be forcing kids to study the sublime beauty of at least 3 strip malls for every gothic cathedral.
 
2006-12-14 03:21:00 PM
Jesus of Norfolk

Yes it does, in the way that they have 0 secular Ramadan carols for every 0 religious Ramadan carols.

/idiot
 
2006-12-14 03:22:05 PM
Look, I don't care if the students want to publicly sacrifice a goat to Inanna while they chant Gwar lyrics - as long as you don't _require_ attendance to watch it from the student body, go ahead.
 
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