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(The Sun)   Teacher fired for telling her students that Santa Claus does not exist   (thesun.co.uk) divider line 264
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12308 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2006 at 12:49 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-12-11 01:23:51 PM
Pxtl

Alexandra

A friend of mine went through the a similar problem. It turned out his child was severely autistic. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.


I've had a pediatrician from the Cleveland Clinic--someone who specializes in child development--tell me that *if* he's autistic he's just on the scale--very mild.

He also learns by watching quite a bit. No one really taught him how to put dishes in the kitchen sink...he's watched others do it and he does it without being asked. Same with clothes in the basket--he'll take them off at bedtime and put them in the basket. Typically autistic children don't bother to imitate.

My husband forbade him from watching pro wrestling when he was a toddler...hubby didn't like the HBK elbow drop being applied to him, and the toy xylophone was being F5'd.... LOL
 
2006-12-11 01:25:14 PM
ec3.images-amazon.com
 
fj
2006-12-11 01:26:18 PM
Alexandra
So he copies wrestling?

I apologize for ever saying there might be anything wrong with him.
 
2006-12-11 01:26:38 PM
bumblebee: My parents didn't wrong me by allowing me to believe in Santa, and they certainly don't mean me any ill will when they want me to believe in Christ. I don't know. You guys take this stuff too seriously. It's just stories

That'd be fine if the rest of society didn't have to suffer the consequences of people believing these fantasies to be true, especially the Christ one.
 
2006-12-11 01:27:22 PM
leave it to those special farkers who have to attack anybody who appears to have morals or family values. every thread in here becomes the damn jerry springer show within 10 posts. its not funny anymore, now, it's just sad.
 
2006-12-11 01:27:44 PM
Uncle Karl

Alexandra
If he could not speak how could you quiz him on shapes and colors?


Let's see...I would ask him where's blue and he'd point to it.

First you point to it and tell him what it is, and repeat. Then ask him where it is and praise him when he gets it right.

Then one day a few weeks ago he started popping out with names for colors...he was holding up Mega Bloks and saying what color it was. I'm just glad he has such a good memory.

tbyte [TotalFark]

Uncle Karl: your evidence really sounds odd

Come on, in her profile she claims to be a fundie, what do you expect?


What's that got to do with anything? Fundie != irrational. Quite the opposite.
 
2006-12-11 01:28:44 PM
It's important to let your kids know early on that you're capable of lying to them. They need to learn to apply logic and research and think for themselves rather than blindly following whatever they're told.
 
2006-12-11 01:29:32 PM
We simply cannot, SIMPLY CAN NOT having teachers telling our precious little children THE TRUTH

OH NOES
 
2006-12-11 01:29:41 PM
enigmaxx:

I agree that she shouldn't have been fired. But as for giving the kids their reality check...perhaps the kids need to know that it's a tough world out there, and that believing/relying on imaginary beings or the supernatural is not the best way to go about life. But that's just me, I prefer to take the red pill in all things. Some people need to take the blue pill.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. Kids are smart enough to figure it out when they're old enough. Let kids be kids...at least for awhile. Let them have their fantasies.

So long as the parents encourage critical thinking, they'll figure it out on their own...as I and many others have. They don't need someone coming out and ruining those fantasies.

The same thing applies to religion. If a child is encouraged to think critically, they'll come to the conclusion that there's no proof of a supreme being.

/is agnostic
 
2006-12-11 01:30:24 PM
Pocket Ninja: It is not the teacher's place to dispel the Santa Clause myth for young children.


Bingo. My 9 year old still believes. Not sure why and we are struggling with how to discuss it with her and not ruin it for her siblings. But, hey, maybe I can get a big mouth public school teacher to do it for me...maybe filter it down for the rest of the kids to have some magic smacked out of them.

In my opinion more school teachers should be fired. Keeps the others in line it does.
 
2006-12-11 01:30:32 PM
I was so devastated when I found out about Santa, I actually asked my mom if there was a way to hypnotize me so I'd forget... Kinda like Cypher wanting to be plugged back into the Matrix.

On the plus side, learning the truth made me an Atheist.

I think the teacher demonstrated poor tact in making the revelation, but she should not have been fired...
 
2006-12-11 01:30:37 PM
fj

Alexandra
So he copies wrestling?

I apologize for ever saying there might be anything wrong with him.


Apology accepted.

He did this at around 18 months old. Hubby won't let him watch it.

Seriously, you have to watch what you do around him because he's watching. And good luck trying to hide anything from him.
 
2006-12-11 01:30:55 PM
buhatkj: leave it to those special farkers who have to attack anybody who appears to have morals or family values.

I don't know about you, but honesty is pretty high up on my list of morals and family values.
 
2006-12-11 01:32:12 PM
My nephew is 10. He still believes in Santa. It is the oddest thing ever. He is waaaay too old to believe in Santa, IMHO. I think 6-7 is a reasonable cut off.

Side note: Alexandra: Having known many fundamentalist Christians in my life, you are the very first I've heard of with a problem with Santa. I completely read your original pagan comments to be sarcasm. . .

/thinks children need an element of fantasy in their lives when very young.
//Big Bird isn't a real bird either, but I have no problem with a 3 year old believing he is.
 
2006-12-11 01:32:32 PM
Alexandra: FWIW, I didn't start talking until I was 4, which was the same year I started reading. At least one doctor told my mother I was retarded. Nevertheless, I managed to graduate from Georgia Tech at 19.

Ultimately, some doctor was able to diagnose a recurring ear problem (that had the unfortunate tendency to go away when my mother took me into the doctor), and after several years of speech therapy (up until 5th grade), I was basically a normal talker. Of course, I still tended to get picked on - until I outgrew all of the bullies, in size and strength. *evil grin*
 
2006-12-11 01:32:35 PM
The teacher really should have kept her mouth shut. It isn't her job to tell children Santa isn't real. It's the job of the parents, or that mangy kid who brings his dad's porno to school.
 
2006-12-11 01:33:35 PM
Alexandra: Fundie != irrational.


Depends on how you define it. Unyielding, literal interpretation of the bible or unquestioning belief in the supernatural could be considered quite irrational. Thats not to say you are irrational in every instance.

Why are people being dicks about her kid? Where the hell does that come from?
 
2006-12-11 01:33:43 PM
Wait, so is believing in Santa a "family value" now? That's stupid. Teaching your children to be giving and thoughtful people should be a "family value".
 
2006-12-11 01:34:48 PM
Alexandra: Fundie != irrational. Quite the opposite.

"fun·da·men·tal·ism /ˌfʌndəˈmɛntlˌɪzəm/ [fuhn-duh-men-tl-iz-uhm]
-noun 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming."

I do not think that word means what you think it does. Or we're both confused about what "rational" means.
 
2006-12-11 01:34:54 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. Kids are smart enough to figure it out when they're old enough. Let kids be kids...at least for awhile. Let them have their fantasies.

So long as the parents encourage critical thinking, they'll figure it out on their own...as I and many others have. They don't need someone coming out and ruining those fantasies.


I like the cut of your jib, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Also to those Farkers out there saying 'If you encourage the Santa myth, you are a big liar!!' Are you farking serious?!
 
2006-12-11 01:35:09 PM
Getting back on topic...I think I believed in Santa mostly because my parents wanted me to and I didn't want to disappoint them. I eventually figured it out, at around age 10 or so.

I just have to question parents who punish their kids for lying, then turn right around and lie to them.
 
2006-12-11 01:35:29 PM
At least she wasn't having sex with them. Or at least that's what she wants us to think....
 
2006-12-11 01:37:28 PM
Santa isn't real. So what's the problem?
 
2006-12-11 01:37:29 PM
I'm not too sure about that...it seems to me that if you nip it in the bud at a young enough age, there won't be any issues. But then again, I don't have kids and I was raised to believe in Santa and baby Jebus. I discarded both around age 5 or 6 (without telling my folks) because I wised up. Lost most of my respect for them after that.
===============================================

LOL. So you lost respect for your mother and father at age 6 after you discovered on your own that Santa doesn't exist? Man, the things you folks will say to sound 'forward thinking'. Did they gain any of your respect back when they were feeding and clothing you for the next 12-15 years? LOL.
 
2006-12-11 01:39:46 PM
ChickenMcBastard

Santa isn't real. So what's the problem?


I think the problem is the parents of the children more or less got called out as having lied to their children.

Then it's the whole sentimental thing.
 
2006-12-11 01:39:56 PM
enormous_smackmaster: or that mangy kid who brings his dad's porno to school.

Hah, I remember that kid.
 
2006-12-11 01:39:58 PM
the santa claus myth is a load of xian bullsh*t that is meant to indoctrinate children into the xian materialistic attitude before they can think for themselves. children don't need to be lied to.
 
2006-12-11 01:40:34 PM
ToxicMunkee: Wait, so is believing in Santa a "family value" now? That's stupid. Teaching your children to be giving and thoughtful people should be a "family value".

That's what I don't get about this myth. It displaces the more comforting fact that people who love you are responsible.

On top of that, the version which sends the more positive, "family values" message to the child is also the one that doesn't require you to lie to your children, and eventually face the awkward moment when your child realizes his parents are lying to him for no apparent reason.
 
2006-12-11 01:40:41 PM
Alexandra: Seriously, you have to watch what you do around him because he's watching. And good luck trying to hide anything from him.

I have a friend who was in a similar situation. Turns out her son, although unable to reproduce what he heard, was still acquiring a full vocabulary. She started watching what she said when he started talking, but by then it was too late, and he had already learned all the things you call other drivers, and when he started talking, he started talking a lot.


/He's fine now, and much smarter than his peers. looks like mental bandwidth that wasn't used for speech was used for learning.
 
2006-12-11 01:40:58 PM
greenpants: Also to those Farkers out there saying 'If you encourage the Santa myth, you are a big liar!!' Are you farking serious?!


Those are the same ones who tell their girlfriends that the dress does make their ass look fat.
 
2006-12-11 01:41:32 PM
fredphelps

I do know that hearing isn't a problem...he'll want you to play a Bob the Builder DVD, you play it, he'll wander off...and he can hear the click of the DVD being turned off from the next room and come running, all honked off. LOL

Hey--if he wants to watch it, he should sit down, unless he wants to help pay the electric bill!
 
2006-12-11 01:42:45 PM
Santa is a bribe system designed to control youthful hijinks. That is all. Oooo he can see you!
 
2006-12-11 01:43:05 PM
ChickenMcBastard: Santa isn't real. So what's the problem?


Neither are most school standards, but at least the school is supposed to deal with those...not Santa, or Jesus, or zombies.
 
2006-12-11 01:44:02 PM
i think a system where things evolve through chemical and physical reactions from singular atoms into complex sentinent beings is a lot more impressive than one where ready things just magically pop up from nothingess. why would god take the easy way out?

anyways, we never had anyone dress up as santa, we kids just went outside with mom to check if we could see the sleigh coming and when we went back in, the prezzies had appeared under the xmas tree (worst timing to go out to find santa every christmas :/ ). as young as i can remember i always thought there was something fishy about that, but as several other people have said, it was a fun story to play in. it just didn't have the same feeling the first time my parents brought the basket from their bedroom with the presents in them.

the teacher shouldn't have talked about the whole thing to the students, but firing her for it is just retarded, especially if she was any good at actually teaching.
 
2006-12-11 01:45:42 PM
I'd be curious the percentage of children who actually feel their parents "lied to them" by pepetuating the Santa mythology. I mean, I worked it out around first grade, but was I pissed at my parents? Uh. no. WTF?

Realizing that fantasy elements I believed as a child were simply that. . fantasy, was actually quite depressing. Basically an initiation into the real world.

Religion is similiar with me. I really wish I *could* be religious on some days. I'm not, but maybe if I honestly believed there was something waiting after death it would get easier to get through the day. . .
 
2006-12-11 01:45:49 PM
I_C_Weener: Neither are most school standards, but at least the school is supposed to deal with those...not Santa, or Jesus, or zombies.

The main difference is that the teacher wouldn't be fired for saying that zombies aren't real. Some myths get special treatment.
 
2006-12-11 01:46:12 PM
Sgian Dubh

Alexandra: Seriously, you have to watch what you do around him because he's watching. And good luck trying to hide anything from him.

I have a friend who was in a similar situation. Turns out her son, although unable to reproduce what he heard, was still acquiring a full vocabulary. She started watching what she said when he started talking, but by then it was too late, and he had already learned all the things you call other drivers, and when he started talking, he started talking a lot.


That's why I get ticked if someone cusses in front of my son--I tell my husband, "I don't want him to start saying THAT when he finally starts talking!"


/He's fine now, and much smarter than his peers. looks like mental bandwidth that wasn't used for speech was used for learning.

That may be it in Tyler's case. Somehow the speech center gets taken over and speech is put on hold. This child is like a sponge, let me tell you. That's why my husband felt preschool would be good for him--so he can watch what other kids do. He sits there and absorbs.

His preschool teacher has told me that Tyler has made a LOT of progress since September, she was really impressed. Last week I went to pick him up and he started helping put things away without being asked...and my jaw dropped!
 
2006-12-11 01:47:05 PM
enormous_smackmaster or that mangy kid who brings his dad's porno to school.

I loved that kid!
 
2006-12-11 01:47:27 PM
What a terrible terrible thing it is to believe that some mythical person loves all the children in the world only to find out later your parents love you and they just wanted you to have some Christmas magic for a few years.

I have not met or heard of anyone who was harmed in even the smallest way by believeing in Santa. ...and if you think Christams is the only time you will tell a white lie to your kids you have never been a parent. "Mom and I are going to take a nap now" comes to mind.

As far as the teacher is concerned I absolutely think he/she got what he/she deserved. It is not an elementary school teachers role to decide if a child should believe in Santa/Christ/Allah/Libertarian Party/etc or not. The teacher was way out of line.

...and most of you are awful bitter. Maybe you stopped believing a little to early.
 
2006-12-11 01:48:19 PM
Santa is real, don't let anyone tell you otherwise! As a father of 3, I have many names. One just happens to be Santa. So I have no problem telling my little girl that Santa is real. I'm as real as it gets!

/thankfully the kids are older now, so there's less late-night "assembly required"
 
2006-12-11 01:49:21 PM
Well, any kid who can read knows there's at least something wrong with the story. Nearly every product says where it's made, and they don't say "North Pole".
 
2006-12-11 01:50:54 PM
tbyte [TotalFark]

Well, any kid who can read knows there's at least something wrong with the story. Nearly every product says where it's made, and they don't say "North Pole".


I always wondered why the elves bothered to black out the price tags on Barbie dolls myself...and why Santa forged my mother's handwriting.

I was probably about five when I asked my mother why Santa used her handwriting.
 
2006-12-11 01:54:43 PM
Oh, Dad wasn't even around on Christmas morning when I actually got to meet Santa Claus. Some father...wait a minute!
 
2006-12-11 01:57:21 PM
2006-12-11 01:50:54 PM Alexandra
I was probably about five when I asked my mother why Santa used her handwriting.

i hope she told you that Santa was too busy signing the gifts for the more grateful and deserving children.
 
2006-12-11 01:57:43 PM
WAYS TO SOUND INTELLECTUAL ON TEH INTARWEB

1) Dismiss immediately any music that people in the thread claim to like. You have a couple of options available to you for this dismissal. The best option is to claim that you've always hated the music in question; this establishes your taste and sense of artistic appreciation (ie, intellect) as unwavering. Another option is to allow that you did, in fact, once appreciate the music under discussion, but no longer appreciate the music now. This establishes that your intellect has evolved beyond the very limited capacities of the others you are deigning to speak to.

(note: the same principle applies to books and movies)

2) Ridicule religion at all opportunities. It doesn't even really matter if your parents make you go to church every Sunday or not; the important thing here is to establish yourself as a being of pure intellect and reason whose every waking decision is informed only by pure science. Your every thought is one founded upon provable data. By labeling all people of faith as "irrational," you immediately establish yourself as superior to well over half the population.

3) Mock any interest in anyone at being "popular" or "liked" or "socially accepted." Such transient desires are not suited for a being of pure intellect such as yourself, whose profound thoughts obviously require a mostly solitary existence. People who desire the company of others are "sheeple," ineffective and laughable members of a "herd" that you should often mockingly state needs "thinning."

4) Ridicule anybody and everybody who speaks nostalgically of childhood rites involving Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, or any other concept based in fantasy. You knew these things did not exist shortly after birth, and you found out all by yourself, and your parents were shocked at your sheer powers of observation and stunning intellect. It's important that others know this so that they can properly extol your virtues.

5) Anything anybody does that in any way inconveniences, troubles, bothers, or concerns you is definitive proof that said person is an idiot. Collect as many anecdotes of this type of behavior as possible so that you may demonstrate often how you are a lone pillar of serene intellect beset on all sides by ignorance and stupidity. If necessary, make a few anecdotes up. People will be too stupid to know any better.

6) It is important that you never, ever be proven wrong or unknowledgeable in anything. Bookmark Wikipedia and, in the event that a discussion you are engaging in takes a turn to topics you have not yet deigned to inform yourself on, do not admit your deficiency. Instead, quickly scan as much information as you can and resume the discussion as a knowledgeable expert. If the necessary information can not be found on Wikipedia or through a quick Google search, simply leave the thread. It obviously wasn't important, anyway, since you didn't know about it.

/add to the list as necessary
 
2006-12-11 01:58:51 PM
Alexandra

Interestingly enough, I once had a NON-Christian tell me I was mean for not telling my son the Santa Claus lie. How weird is that?

Boy aren't you just a bundle of holiday cheer?!

When my older daughter asked if there was a santa I said yes. When she asked if it was me and dad, I smiled and said yes. I also told her that she was now part of the adult conspiracy to bring magic to younger kids who believe in santa. Thus, she is now santa too!
 
2006-12-11 01:59:32 PM
The article never mention Santa Claus. They used the name Father Christmas. Is that a UK thing? Just curious.
 
2006-12-11 02:00:02 PM
I found out Santa wasn't real when I was 6 years old - climbed out of bed and grabbed my parent's polaroid camera and hid behind the couch. When I heard the rustle of paper I popped up and snapped a picture, figuring I'd get Saint Nick. Joke was on me when the picture came out and both my parents had stunned expressions. My dad got a real pissed expression then and I dropped the camera and ran like hell for my room.

I kept up with the charade for another 6 years until my sister was old enough to get a clue and realize there was no Santa. Even so, I get a kick out of watching the kids walk into the room - that is what Christmas is really all about for me.
 
2006-12-11 02:01:00 PM
What's the difference between these two questions:

Is Santa real?
Is God real?
 
2006-12-11 02:02:05 PM
When my boys finally started realising about Santa, we sat down and watched "Miracle on 34th Street" together and talked about the whole spirit of giving thing. Then I let them do the adopt-an-angel thing at church, and explained how, yes, Santa IS real, because they were being Santa to some other child. Never had a problem with it, they grasped the concept well. I think they like being in on the secret.
 
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