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(New Yorker)   Bible is the best-selling book of the year -- like it is every year. Suck it, haters   (newyorker.com) divider line 1014
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6831 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2006 at 1:37 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-12-11 03:11:36 PM  
Haraksha
But it doesn't matter what the intention was. If nothing else, that only helps my argument. My intentions were good, but I accidentally raped her, now I'm married, feel bad, and accept Christ.

I get in to heaven.


Your ignorance is showing.

/No one was accepting Jesus in the Old Testament.
 
2006-12-11 03:11:49 PM  
Haraksha: I didn't disagree. What I'm saying is that rape would still fall under that law.

Actually, if its rape, According to various scriptures in Deuteronomy, I would say that the man is to be stoned.
 
2006-12-11 03:12:22 PM  
psypaul2: Well, over weeks of different threads, we always reach the same conclusion.

Hrm. How interesting.

Have you tried a dark chocolate ale? They are very good, although Guiness is my beer of choice.

I haven't; are there any you could recommend that I look out for?

Any chance you could make it to a Kentucky Fark party? You'd be hella fun to talk to over a pint!

Not likely, sadly; I don't have much in the way of discretionary funds to go gallivanting all over the country with. ^^; And beware a drunk me--if you think I've got eccentric views now, you should see what I come up with when tipsy.

/My typing speed also goes up significantly.
//Nowadays, I usually only drink when I'm playing video games on weekends--I get better at 'em, and that's about the only time I *have* to drink.
 
2006-12-11 03:12:50 PM  
Pfft. I'm a frizbeeatarian, call me when you all learn the way. Your souls are doomed to be trapped on the roof forever.
 
2006-12-11 03:13:33 PM  
EricRS: Actually, if its rape, According to various scriptures in Deuteronomy, I would say that the man is to be stoned.

I dunno about that. Most stoners I know don't have much libido when they're toking, so I kinda doubt that anybody who's stoned would be raping.

Must be anti-marajuana propoganda.

/Yes, I know. I'm being funny.
 
2006-12-11 03:14:08 PM  
muck4doo: Your ignorance is showing

Do I really need to fill in the gaps of my argument? It may be easier to just think that I don't understand that Jesus was in the sequel.

What matters is that in both the old and the new, I am allowed to get away with atrocities so long as I do the required thing to be forgiven after the fact.

EricRS: I would say that the man is to be stoned

And that depends on location and if the girl is married.

Alright, I'm seriously leaving the thread now for class.
 
2006-12-11 03:14:18 PM  
/You've got a consistent theology--something that seems to be as rare as a two-headed kitten

You asked for it:
www.globalspot.com
 
2006-12-11 03:14:27 PM  
muninsfire: I dunno about that. Most stoners I know don't have much libido when they're toking, so I kinda doubt that anybody who's stoned would be raping.

That's true. Unless its a bag of Doritos.
 
2006-12-11 03:14:40 PM  
Haraksha: The teachings of Christ do not create a better world.

Not if you use the Calvinist 'salvation by faith alone' bit, no.

Using the 'salvation by faith and works', though, is another story altogether.
 
2006-12-11 03:14:59 PM  
McDonalds sells a lot of hamburgers too.
 
2006-12-11 03:15:29 PM  
Mr Sunshine: You asked for it:

I meant the newsletter, not the kitten.

EricRS: That's true. Unless its a bag of Doritos.

Or Cheetos.
 
2006-12-11 03:15:53 PM  
muninsfire: psypaul2: Well, over weeks of different threads, we always reach the same conclusion.

Hrm. How interesting.

Have you tried a dark chocolate ale? They are very good, although Guiness is my beer of choice.

I haven't; are there any you could recommend that I look out for?

Any chance you could make it to a Kentucky Fark party? You'd be hella fun to talk to over a pint!

Not likely, sadly; I don't have much in the way of discretionary funds to go gallivanting all over the country with. ^^; And beware a drunk me--if you think I've got eccentric views now, you should see what I come up with when tipsy.

/My typing speed also goes up significantly.
//Nowadays, I usually only drink when I'm playing video games on weekends--I get better at 'em, and that's about the only time I *have* to drink.


haven't found a dark chocolate beer worth the time yet... give me a decent guiness or a fine ale... hand pulled please.
 
2006-12-11 03:16:21 PM  
BojanglesPaladin

It would benefit nearly everyone in this thread to remember that nearly the overwhelming majority of America considers themselves to be Christian. They are your well adjusted, well educated, well reasoning coworers, neighbors, and peers.

Yeah, they'll say they're Christians if you just ask them, because they haven't really thought about it. They also don't really act like Christians are supposed to based on the Bible most of the time. If you really force them to decide what they are in a cultural vacuum, a whole shiatload of these "Christians" will fall somewhere between agnostic and atheist.
 
2006-12-11 03:16:22 PM  
Haraksha: What matters is that in both the old and the new, I am allowed to get away with atrocities so long as I do the required thing to be forgiven after the fact.

That is true. God can always forgive. Its not like you're going to fool him though... He knows who really wants to follow him, and who doesn't.

We just get worked up, because it doesn't always make sense in this life.
 
2006-12-11 03:16:44 PM  


i108.photobucket.com
Proof that God is a man
 
2006-12-11 03:16:54 PM  
So you are equating this to the popularity of Desperate Housewives?
Yes.
 
2006-12-11 03:17:55 PM  
black_knight: So you are equating this to the popularity of Desperate Housewives?
Yes.


Interesting thought, that......hrmmm.....
 
2006-12-11 03:19:50 PM  
SpectroBoy: Proof that God is a man

certainly an interesting postulation.
 
2006-12-11 03:19:58 PM  
it's a day that ends in Y - time for religious flamewar. Anyhow, let's all try to get along. :)

media.libsyn.com

See at proper resolution... (pops)

Got Feedback? ke­v­ar­ch­b[nospam-﹫-backwards]liam­g*c­om
 
2006-12-11 03:20:15 PM  
dude. not safe for work.
 
2006-12-11 03:20:30 PM  
Haraksha: The teachings of Christ do not create a better world.

You mean like "Don't steal," "Don't kill," "Don't be a hypocrite," "Help the poor," selfish and cruel things like that?
 
2006-12-11 03:20:43 PM  
Nightsweat:

NIce one, dude. Nice one. Nort only have you made a valid point, but you've quoted one of the greatest actors in recent years from one of the greatest movies I've ever seen.

Again, nice.
 
2006-12-11 03:20:54 PM  
GlitchCog

Not really. Lok up the studies. Most Americans are Christian and go to church.

The 'degree' of thier faith varies and is subjective and probably unquantifiable, but statistically, the large majority of Americans believe in Christ as the son of God, that God made the world, that Christ rose from the dead, etc. Specific doctrines vary, but chances are, if you ask 10 people on the street, 6-8 of them will naswer affirmative on the central articles of Christian faith.
 
2006-12-11 03:21:07 PM  
I only made it about halfway through the thread before I had to stop, so fogive me if this has been brought up already, but for those (I've seen this mentioned at least a couple of times) who believe in the idea that a person will be tortured in Hell for eternity, I have a couple of questions.

1. If God is about Justice and love, and peace, then how is it just or loving or peaceful to sentence a good person (meaning someone who bettered the lives of others, or saved lives, but did not believe in God or Jesus) to torture simply because they did not appease his ego, or follow one particular rule? Also, how just, loving, or peaceful is it to sentence someone to an eternity of punishment for less than a lifetime's worth of sin? It implies that Christianity has nothing to do with morality, and in fact, the deathbed conversion of a lifetime mass-murderer is more valuable than a full lifetime of service to the betterment of one's fellow man. THAT is why many people hate Christianity with such a passion.

2. Concerning the idea of burning/suffering/etc. - I'm curious to know exactly how this works. It's obviously not physical. Are souls flammable?

Just curious, as these questions never seem to be answered with any degree of clarity.

/my .02
 
2006-12-11 03:21:07 PM  
BojanglesPaladin: nearly the overwhelming majority of America considers themselves to be Christian.

Key word being "considers."

They are your well adjusted, well educated, well reasoning coworers, neighbors, and peers.

Implying that those that are not well adjusted, well educated, well reasoning coworers, neighbors, and peers are somehow heathens and atheists and muslims, etc?

Beg to differ, but most of my "Christian" co-workers and assosciates are rude, arrogant, stubborn, and generally unpleasant to be around. There are a few exceptions, but sadly not enough.

This mythical notion that "Christians" belong to a better religion, are somehow better and kinder than the rest of humanity, and should not be criticized ("persecuted" is their preferred term) at any cost needs to be exposed for the lie it is.
 
2006-12-11 03:21:26 PM  
KevinThePure: it's a day that ends in Y - time for religious flamewar. Anyhow, let's all try to get along. :)

He sounds like a damn long-hair hippie peace freak.

/So I think you're right-on. ;-þ
 
2006-12-11 03:21:53 PM  
RussianPooper

McDonalds sells a lot of hamburgers too.

Thats a great analogy. I'm stealing that.
 
2006-12-11 03:22:19 PM  
alhazred: Are souls flammable?

*Everything* is flammable.

You just need the right reactants and the right starter, that's all. *smirk*
 
2006-12-11 03:23:03 PM  
Haraksha: What matters is that in both the old and the new, I am allowed to get away with atrocities so long as I do the required thing to be forgiven after the fact.

That is not true. Leaving aside the Hebrew Tanakh for a moment, it is a fundamental tenent of Christianity from the beginning that only sincerely humble and earnest repentence matters. It is highly unlikely that, approaching from the perspective you presented, any 'repentence' will be a sincere effort, more likely an empty gesture. FURTHERMORE, one who earnestly seeks reconcilliation God won't be so cavalier in his messy duties as you seem to present.
 
2006-12-11 03:23:26 PM  
KevinThePure: it's a day that ends in Y - time for religious flamewar. Anyhow, let's all try to get along. :)

sorry Kevin, after reading that I had to scroll up to make sure God was still with us...
 
2006-12-11 03:23:47 PM  
muninsfire: *Everything* is flammable.

You just need the right reactants and the right starter, that's all. *smirk*


I find your ideas intriguing, and wish to ignite your newsletter.
 
2006-12-11 03:24:26 PM  
Zaphodius

haven't found a dark chocolate beer worth the time yet... give me a decent guiness or a fine ale... hand pulled please.


Try Young's Double Chocolate Stout.

But I agree, Guiness is best.
 
2006-12-11 03:24:35 PM  
Oh, and...

KevinThePure

I smile every time I see that. I'm not a Christian, I'm a Deist, but I believe Jesus was spot on and I LOVE to see Christians trying to get faux-Christians to follow him. Very admirable to fix your own faults before trying to tell everyone else to fix theirs.
 
2006-12-11 03:24:39 PM  
alhazred: 1. If God is about Justice and love, and peace, then how is it just or loving or peaceful to sentence a good person (meaning someone who bettered the lives of others, or saved lives, but did not believe in God or Jesus) to torture simply because they did not appease his ego, or follow one particular rule? Also, how just, loving, or peaceful is it to sentence someone to an eternity of punishment for less than a lifetime's worth of sin? It implies that Christianity has nothing to do with morality, and in fact, the deathbed conversion of a lifetime mass-murderer is more valuable than a full lifetime of service to the betterment of one's fellow man. THAT is why many people hate Christianity with such a passion.

See post above at 2006-12-11 02:05:19 PM

2. Concerning the idea of burning/suffering/etc. - I'm curious to know exactly how this works. It's obviously not physical. Are souls flammable?

If they were flammable they would just burn up. (or burn up really slowly). Apparently though, they are still bothered by heat.... or God might just be using fire to describe to us how it will feel.
 
2006-12-11 03:26:13 PM  
Mr Sunshine

Haraksha: The teachings of Christ do not create a better world.

You mean like "Don't steal," "Don't kill," "Don't be a hypocrite," "Help the poor," selfish and cruel things like that?


If those were purely Christian teachings, you'd have a point. Too bad nearly every other religion around has basically the same teachings.
 
2006-12-11 03:26:30 PM  
And "fogive" my poor spelling in my previous post as well.
 
2006-12-11 03:27:13 PM  
EricRS: If they were flammable they would just burn up. (or burn up really slowly). Apparently though, they are still bothered by heat.... or God might just be using fire to describe to us how it will feel.

maybe it's kinda like tempering the soul
 
2006-12-11 03:27:15 PM  
EricRS

See post above at 2006-12-11 02:05:19 PM

But God created us that way, according to Creationism and Genesis, so how is it our fault that we cannot meet his expectations? Why are humans being held responsible for not being Godly, when God created us as less than him?
 
2006-12-11 03:27:22 PM  
submitter: Bible is the best-selling book of the year -- like it is every year.

sounds an awful lot like a propaganda campaign in that case
 
2006-12-11 03:27:35 PM  
sirbissel: If those were purely Christian teachings, you'd have a point. Too bad nearly every other religion around has basically the same teachings.

Christianity though has a distinctive flair about helping others... something a lot of other "religions" lack.
 
2006-12-11 03:28:04 PM  
muninsfire / Krapitino:

Holy crap, the militant aetheist windbags are just as bad as the militant evangelist windbags...

They're both fundamentalists--the only difference is that they take the opposite sides of the arguement.

----

nonsense. Theists makes an obviously ridiculous claim. Atheists dont feel it necessary to humour them. There is no 'argument'. Theists are raving mad, atheists choose to not encourage their madness. This argument was settled by the greeks in 300 BCE.

Theists are simply (willfully?) ignorant. Atheists are not required to give comfort to collective hysteria.

oh, and atheism isnt a religion if you're intending on pulling out that canard.
 
2006-12-11 03:28:11 PM  
all truly intelligent and open minded people are 100% certain that God does not exist.

/you "enlightened" atheists who think anyone with any sort of faith is stupid can politely kiss my other cheek.
 
2006-12-11 03:28:49 PM  
"If you look deeply into the palm of your hand, you will see your parents and all generations of your ancestors. All of them are alive in this moment. Each is present in your body. You are the continuation of each of these people. To be born means that something which did not exist comes into existence. But the day we are "born" is not our beginning. It is a day of continuation. But that hould not make us less happy when we celebrate our "Happy Continuation Day."

Since we are never born, how can we cease to be? This is what the Heart Sutra reveals to us. When we have a tangible experience of non-birth and non-death, we know ourselves beyond duality. The meditation on "no separate self" is one way to pass through the gate of birth and death.

Your hand proves that you have never been born and you will never die. The thread of life has never been interrupted from time without beginning until now. Previous generations, all the way back to single-celled beings, are present in your hand at this moment. You can observe and experience this. Your hand is always available as a subject for meditation. "

Present Moment, Wonderful Moment by Thich Nhat Hanh


seaox.com
 
2006-12-11 03:29:14 PM  
EricRS: Christianity though has a distinctive flair about helping others... something a lot of other "religions" lack

and how many other religions do you know intimately?

/jez wunderin
 
2006-12-11 03:29:25 PM  
Lemme make sure I understand the two main thrusts of this thread so far:

1. The Bible is a bestseller only because churches, the Gideons and other assorted rtards buy them in bulk and give them away to hotels, in church or on street corners.

2. How dare anyone SELL the Bible? Shouldn't it be free?

That about right?
 
2006-12-11 03:29:51 PM  
DisneyOnIce
Implying that those that are not well adjusted, well educated, well reasoning coworers, neighbors, and peers are somehow heathens and atheists and muslims, etc?

Not at all. That is what you inferred. I said that being christian does not make you ill-adjusted, ill-reasoned, or poorly educated.

most of my "Christian" co-workers and assosciates are rude, arrogant, stubborn, and generally unpleasant to be around.

Could be. Maybe you bring that out in people. But so are muslims, jews, athiests and ... well everyone. Believeing in Christ has nothing to do with whether your personality meshes with thiers.

This mythical notion that "Christians" belong to a better religion, are somehow better and kinder than the rest of humanity, and should not be criticized...

Not a point I am making, or one I support.


Now that you are done erecting strawmen and trying to put words in my mouth, what was the point you were trying to make again? That you SHOULD feel free to dog out your family friends and coworkers simply because they are Christian and you are not?
 
2006-12-11 03:30:01 PM  
Rethorn: But God created us that way, according to Creationism and Genesis, so how is it our fault that we cannot meet his expectations? Why are humans being held responsible for not being Godly, when God created us as less than him?

Common misconception... we weren't created that way.

Ecc 7:29 This only have I found:
God made mankind upright,
but men have gone in search of many schemes."

He created us without sin, but we corrupted our own ways.

However, because he his a loving God, he created a way for us to escape what we deserve.
 
2006-12-11 03:30:09 PM  
I'm a Christian, and I don't believe in a fiery hell that you will be tortured in forever. I believe it means eternal death. The Catholic church invented fiery hell to get a bigger audience. It's a scare tactic. Kind of like global warming.
 
2006-12-11 03:31:03 PM  
bake420: and how many other religions do you know intimately?

I've studied a lot..... The big three anyway. I haven't looked into Eastern stuff yet, but that's next.
 
2006-12-11 03:31:21 PM  
votegreen: There is no 'argument'.

Note, I said "militant"--as in, the ones who make the arguement.

By stating a preference for one side or the other--stating either that there is or is not a G-d, rather than saying that it doesn't matter to you, you're expressing faith.

If you're really an atheist, of course there's no arguement--because you don't have any belief on that matter.

oh, and atheism isnt a religion if you're intending on pulling out that canard.

Atheism--the lack of belief--no, is not a religion.

Antitheism--the belief that there is no G-d--may not call itself a religion, but has all the hallmarks of one.
 
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