fortheloveof

Actually when you say America I think you really mean the United States of America. After all we have not yet conjured Canada

I'll get the Charmed ones right on that, but where will they put it once they perform the conjuring spell?

(french and english), the Central American region or South America (spanish and pre-english native languages, portuguese). But hey America, becuase geography was too hard for you.

As grammar and spelling are for you.

/not normally a grammar/spelling Nazi but I always enjoy pointing and laughing at those who insult others intelligence while mangling the language.

I think Otto's_Jacket's post is worth repeating. Theodore pretty much nails it on this one:

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

If I moved to Venezuela, especially to work, I would learn Spanish. That's just common sense. It's asinine to suggest that 100 employees at an established business should all have to learn a new language because one new guy can't be bothered to learn English.

As a guy that moved to Atlanta 16 years ago from a Chicago suburb that was nicknamed "West Chicano"...I can say that I can see why there has been such a concerned response.

Some of even the larger counties here have had about a *200* percent rise in the hispanic population in a 10 year period. It's put a strain on plenty of things.

The B&B owner is in the long run doing her employee a favor.

BTW, the amount of money sent back to Mexico alone is bigger than the profits they make on oil exports (and they gotta lot of oil).

Ask the French how legislating the language is working for them.

Languages and cultures evolve. And if a country has a significant minority of another language group, that evolution is gonna happen sooner rather than later. Deal with it.

/My kid watches Dora and Diego and speaks multiple phrases in Spanish
//I don't feel oppressed

dallashockey69:
perhaps you should read the rest of my posts instead of just one.

Just did. You're still on time out until you can separate the idea of desire for a common language from racism.

It's her right to do what she wants, but in my mind she might as well put up a sign that says "Must be this dumb to work here" with a picture of her face.

dallashockey69

immigrants do learn english. you cant just snap your fingers and make it happen overnight. they come here not knowing a word.

First of all, you left out a very important word in your statement.....let me help you....ILLEGAL!


Second..... you have a lot to learn......... to say every "illegal" does not know a word of english before getting to america is complete BS! YOU DONT KNOW THAT!

You sure do like making a lot of excuses for illegal aliens. Why is that?

kuaq, Is it really as hard as they say it is to speak with out teeth ? Cause you know all people from the UK have bad teeth.

jx


Even if you *did* "try to learn the native language and take up their customs," it's likely that this would take you a while. I find it highly unlikely that you'd survive very long without some sort of outreach on the part of the other country to accomodate your learning curve.

Then isn't it upon you to start learning before you go? I mean if I move to Japan I'm supposed to expect Japan to know Im coming and learn to speak English to accomodate me? No, I go a few months before moving and pick up a phrasebook and at least learn to say "Help", "I'm lost", "Where is the bathroom", and "Is the spanking extra?" before I move there.

Pocket Ninja

/Troll

I'm just here because I want to rant on BofA ATMs.

WTFark is it with making me scan each farking check individually? Can't you just hire some non-english speaking labor on the cheap to open my farking envelopes and run them through? Like I want to be exposed for ten minutes farking around with your useless garddarn scanner for ten freaking minutes.

I could care less if the machine makes me select a language (it defaults to engrish you twats, you can ignore the extra button).

For the record, I do think anyone wanting to reside here should learn English as a courtest. I think a basic English test should be required for citizenship.

I also think people who cry foul for immigrants not speaking proper english should check their posts at the very least, lest they come off as illiterate tards.

/although I'm refusing to check this post for mistakes.
//Suck it Libs

I think sometimes that people are unclear on the meaning of the metaphor "Melting Pot", as in the USA is a melting pot of cultures.

Yes, the US can and does include other cultures, but that's because mainstream US culture has the willingness to change. As new ideas enter the culture, the culture includes and adapts to them. But the ideas are also changed. They are adjusted to better fit. They melt.

The point of a Melting Pot culture is that even though new cultures and ideas and languages are added, they blend and melt enough that the overall culture doesn't change too significantly.

Multiculturalism is good in that it breathes new life into the occasionally stagnant mainstream, but there has to be assimilation.

The USA is based on the premise that we are stronger together than we are apart. One of the extremely important prerequisites for active cooperation is a shared communication. Failure to assimilate isn't the end of the world, but it does lead to divisiveness. We have enough division in the country already.

I'm all for celebrating diversity, and for promoting understanding of other cultures, and I think it's important for a person to celebrate his or her heritage. That is also a really important part of US culture. But there's a difference between celebrating a heritage and refusal to assimilate.

I think this is really one of the root issues that people have with the whole immigration thing. I really don't believe it's a racial issue as much as a cultural one. If these immigrants spoke English and made an active attempt to fit in with mainstream culture, then I doubt we'd be having these national arguments about it.

♫ Jingo Bells! Jingo Bells! Jingo all the waaaaaaay! ♫

dallashockey69


i say we make all government forms available in spanish and english. hispanics make up a significant portion of our poulation and will soon control politics. nothing wrong with that at all. why dont we embrace the culture? is that so bad? we have embraced many different cultures in the US to make it the great country it is and now a bunch of racists are trying to put walls up and isolate our nation from the world. we should also make it mandatory to learn spanish in schools. whats wrong with knowing more than one language. travel to other countries and you will see that many of the people know multiple languages. including english.

Hispanics are about 10% of the population. They are the biggest minority and the most pandered to. But where you get that they will soon control politics is beyond me.

Why do people like you decide that spanish should be mandated in our school system? Most high schools have multiple language classes available. But you want to go a step further and make it so spanish is mandatory. Sorry budddy but this is the USA. If you want to study French in high school you should have that option, not have spanish forced down your throat as mandatory because 10% of the population favors it. Everything is getting into bizarro world. English has been the majority language for a very long time and the US has worked just fine.

Personally I like the idea of reciprocating laws. In Mexico it is illegal for a US citizen to own land there; ok then it should be illegal for Mexican citizens to own land (not hispanics citizens). Same with language; it is illegal to use english in mexico for offical communication; if you need a translator its your own responsiblity; it should be so here. I am sure the mexican consolate would be happy to provide lots of them to aid our courts in the prosecution of thier illegals who rape; murder and deal drugs. (no I don't think they are all that way).

Pirate King,

Well said.

PirateKing: I think this is really one of the root issues that people have with the whole immigration thing. I really don't believe it's a racial issue as much as a cultural one. If these immigrants spoke English and made an active attempt to fit in with mainstream culture, then I doubt we'd be having these national arguments about it.

We also wouldn't be having national arguments about it if Americans made more of an active attempt to learn about the cultures that people are coming from when they immigrate to the US.

It's stupid to cry about them not attempting to understand our culture if we're not willing to learn anything ourselves.

The United States in general needs to do better with its language education, for both citizens and immigrants.

Pocket Ninja

Even if you *did* "try to learn the native language and take up their customs," it's likely that this would take you a while. I find it highly unlikely that you'd survive very long without some sort of outreach on the part of the other country to accomodate your learning curve.

Not necessarily. When I was in High School my sister was friends with a girl who went to France as an exchange student. She had had only a smattering of French as taught by our school and was placed in Rural France with a Family that spoke NO ENGLISH. She learned awfully damn fast. Said she was fluent within a month.

Bestbank Tiger
If this is such a problem, why did this "hero" hire a non-English speaker in the first place?

It's all about the $$Benjamins$$. Cheap labor.


jake3988
Hero? Hero?! Are you guys out of your bloody mind?

Support prejudice and lack of immigration. Immigration that made this country great.

You should NOT have to be our 'culture'. Where'd the melting pot go?

It is not about prejudice or stalling immigration, it is completely a respect thing. If things are so damn bad, that emmigrating is your best choice, then shouldn't you give enough respect to the country that provides better opportunity, to speak their native language.

/not prejudiced toward the people, just the use of their languages. Farking disrespectful! End of story.

Oh and for me, I know most of the curses in Japanese, Spanish, Italian, French and Russian - I also know how to say "that's rude" in each of those languages. I've stopped quite a few spanish speaking guys on jobsites dead in their tracks with that last bit when I heard the curses. that and yes/no are about all I care to know.

/my daughter gets pissed when shes begging for something and I start rattling off no's in every language I know the word for it.

nurvgas:
As a guy that moved to Atlanta 16 years ago from a Chicago suburb that was nicknamed "West Chicano"...I can say that I can see why there has been such a concerned response.

Logan Square represent, Holmes.

It was surprising how much shiat I got when I used English in the local shops and how differently I was treated when I switched to Spanish. The taqueria around the corner even started speaking English to me after enough visits that they realized I lived down the block and could order in Spanish if I wanted to.

Language is an extremely loaded issue and goes right to the core of a person's identity. Refusing to use the local language (and English is the local language) is seen as rejection of culture and values. The English only crowd don't necessarily hate non-english speakers but are usually reacting to the percieved rejection of US values and culture.

Digitalstrange

isn't that the point i was trying to make? i think you need to point your statement at Pocket Ninja

I don't know why Farkers are trying to turn this into a Mexican immigration thing. Just the other weekend I had dinner with people who speak Hindi as their native language. All this applies to them just as much as it applies to someone who speaks Spanish, or French, or Russian, or Swahili.

Dawg47: Good call, dumbass. Except that we have state and federal constitutions, and all these other things called "laws" that might step in and prevent us from discriminating wholesale against various groups.

No need to get all pissy. I don't see this how this discrimination.

I'm conjuring Canada right now.

The hell with the article, how about the picture of that freaky looking hand pointing in the dictionary?

1) Many U.S. citizens have money
2) The majority of U.S. citizens speaks English
3) You cannot do business without communication
4) Two beings cannot communicate without a common language.
5) No one will learn another language in order to lose money.

Given the above, it stands to reason that those that wish to do business with U.S. citizens will learn English since they are after a piece of the economy.

Given this knowledge, do you think that maybe ATMs throughout the world have English as an option so Americans can spend money in foreign countries and not because they're "accomodating"?

Likewise, do you think that Spanish is an option on ATMs because we want Mexican immigrants (both illegal and legal) to have easy access to their money so they can spend it here?

Racism is rarely about race, its almost always about money.

blueswoman: also FWIW, all our hispanic workers have their green cards and SS cards. they're legals. they just no hable'.

There's an excellent chance that they have fake/borrowed green cards and SS cards.

i have no idea how much they make at this job; i'm an employee, too, but i'm well-compensated, so i'm sure they are, also.

Try asking them. They most likely make less than you. My sister worked almost the idential job as you (bilingual white girl on a mexican crew) and that is how it was.

(This is partly reasonable, since as a bilingual employee, you are more valuable, whereas they are less valuable since they can't even speak farking English. It's also partly unreasonable, since employers know they can get away with paying Mexicans less than Americas, even for the same work.)

/SS? SS? Godwin!

Scratched,

"The United States in general needs to do better with its language education, for both citizens and immigrants."

I graduated HS in 198, err nevermind. A while ago.

Anyhoo, we were required to have two language courses to graduate. I had two years of German (can't speak more than a few words of it now). Most people chose Spanish because the teacher was teh hawt and easy. Language classes included cultureal learning.

I'm pretty sure my HS was the rule, not the exception. People learn things they later unlearn from not using.

I know quite a few "rednecks" and they aren't half as retarded as people portray them on TV (including "Nnews" spots). What happens is the stuff you see on TV is selected to get more viewers. Media can not be boring and normal, so when you watch something on TV, you will hear about Americans that are dumb, Indians that can't speak their own language (English IS the national language in India), Euros that are stylish ahd totally ghey, etc.

The fact is most people are fairly normal wherever you go but that doesn't sell much air time or many newspapers or magazines.

Stereotypes (including the idiot american ones) are mostly untrue.

PirateKing [TotalFark]

If these immigrants spoke English and made an active attempt to fit in with mainstream culture, then I doubt we'd be having these national arguments about it.

There would still be some economic concerns but they certainly wouldn't be as severe.

For instance I live in SC - not exactly known as a bastion of open mindedness ansd racial tolerance. Outside my neighborhood the 2 convenience stores in either direction are owned and run by a muslim family. While I have heard some in the neighborhood refer to the places by slurs like "Habib-Mart" everyone agrees the people running it are decent folks, I know I chat with one of the guys there fairly regularly about many issues and hes a pretty smart guy. Get a vocal coach to erase the accent and you'd think he was as American as me.

Pirate King had it right. Melt or get out of the pot.

I blame the spanish channels. How you gonna expect a guy to learn english if he sits at home all day watching hot latin models report world events?

This IS the American Way.

/God Bless America!

is more appropriate.

does anyone else find it amusing that the quotation she adapts to her experience is from a book where the stranger comes and introduces a new language, changes everyone's views and challenges a religion in a major way?


//I don't grok

Detour: This is America. Why should we have to press "1" for English??

Would you rather press "2"? Or would you rather press 1 for "American."

jx

Digitalstrange

isn't that the point i was trying to make? i think you need to point your statement at Pocket Ninja

kept the wrong name when taking the quote, sorry.

mount.diablo: Anyhoo, we were required to have two language courses to graduate. I had two years of German (can't speak more than a few words of it now). Most people chose Spanish because the teacher was teh hawt and easy. Language classes included cultureal learning.

I'm pretty sure my HS was the rule, not the exception. People learn things they later unlearn from not using.

Anecdotal evidence is useless.
I had to have two years of foreign language classes in High School to graduate also, and then that was it.
High School is way to late to start learning a second language in any meaningful way.

In the US, about 9% of American-born citizens speak a second language.
Compare that with Europe, where about half of the population speaks a second language. Go here (pops) for specifics.

The fact is most people are fairly normal wherever you go but that doesn't sell much air time or many newspapers or magazines.

Stereotypes (including the idiot american ones) are mostly untrue.

Considering there is a fairly large Spanish speaking population in the US (about 12%, IIRC), it's fairly hypocritical to say that anyone that comes to the US needs to speak "our" language.

I wasn't stereotyping anything.
If you can find any actual facts that prove me wrong, then I'll reconsider.

As a person who lives in a country with more than one official language (Belgium), I have to say that however nice it may sound in theory, it doesn't seem to work in reality. Officially, each person over here is supposed to speak both Dutch and French. In reality, most Dutch speakers speak only a tiny bit of French, and most French speakers flat out refuse to learn Dutch (even though they're the minority). If anything, the bilingualism of the nation seems to push people apart instead of bringing them together.

I personally feel that everyone should pick up an additional language in the course of their life just to enrich themselves, but I think a country is better off with just one official language instead of multiple ones.

Immigrant janitorial workers seem weak and in a desperate sitaution, they're just the ones to take my spiteful nature on!

Damn those people willing to work hard for your business for a fair (or less) wage. If they don't speak english and watch american idol instead of sabado gigante and just be more white in general - to hell with them. I'll use my tiny bit of economic power to be a prick to them at my own expense, just because that's the kind of massive farkshiat I am.

MisterRPG


I don't know why Farkers are trying to turn this into a Mexican immigration thing. Just the other weekend I had dinner with people who speak Hindi as their native language. All this applies to them just as much as it applies to someone who speaks Spanish, or French, or Russian, or Swahili.

I work with people from all over the world; Japan, German, French, Indian, Korea, China, Russian, Israeli and so on. Yet all of them speak english. Mexicans and other latin Americans are the ones marching in the street chanting in Spanish.

You people still don't understand the term "racism".

Hint it has nothing to do with the language you speak (or don't)or the religion you practice (or don't).

Racism is the belief that one's race is superior to another. How does that anything to do with subject of TFA?

I'm sure you race pimps will splain it to me.

Sawatdee
That's cool and all but said "man" is actually a woman.

He's still a man. He's just a hot, sexy, female man.

dallashockey69
we will most likely have a 51st state sometime soon. should we make all puerto ricans speak english as well? whats wrong with having two common languages?

Just for clarification, from wikipedia:
"Spanish is the primary language of Puerto Ricans, though English is taught, as a second language, in schools from elementary levels to high school."

BlindMan


Immigrant janitorial workers seem weak and in a desperate sitaution, they're just the ones to take my spiteful nature on!

Damn those people willing to work hard for your business for a fair (or less) wage. If they don't speak english and watch american idol instead of sabado gigante and just be more white in general - to hell with them. I'll use my tiny bit of economic power to be a prick to them at my own expense, just because that's the kind of massive farkshiat I am.

For my part learning the language should be viewed as an avantage. Not speaking English puts you into a virtual ghetto. It bears repeating that every other group who has immigrated to the US learns English but for some reason Hispanics need to be exepmt. My wife is Mexican and one of the first things she did coming here was learn English. But then she immigrated legally...

alidade: I'm sure you race pimps will splain it to me.


While the article didn't mention race, most people's objections *assume* a race where it wasn't mentioned. You will notice a lot of discussion about illegal imigrants, and hispanics, where those weren't mentioned either.

Assuming that because someone is hispanic that they are illegal is racist. And assuming that someone wants to be able to clearly read their atm transaction, does not mean that they are not trying to learn english.

I know if i am in another country, even if i speak the language there, I still would want to process financial transactions in english if possible.