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(London Times)   Iraqi military has a plan: As soon as the U.S. forces leave, so do they. "As soon as it happens, I will quit my job and live outside Iraq," says one sergeant   (timesonline.co.uk) divider line 305
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7560 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Dec 2006 at 3:13 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-12-07 12:36:41 AM  
Well if I were a colaborator I would leave too once the occupyiers had left.

Oh btw...Neo-con-tard speak: "OOHHH what about the GOOD!!!! the schools are open!!!!"
 
2006-12-07 12:39:27 AM  
How convenient. This will be used as justification for us to stay even longer.
 
2006-12-07 03:17:49 AM  
www.phillyist.com

/someone had to do it
 
2006-12-07 03:19:18 AM  
Yet another of the 0 countries America has successfully converted in its storied history from totalitarionism to a peaceful westernized democracy. One would think at this point that knowing American history would be a prerequisite for setting its foreign and military policies. The industrialized world wants nothing more than successful nation states, but it'll be darned if it doesn't find young America even cute for trying over and over and over. Though far from idealy, Britain did it so much better what with actual real free trade.
 
2006-12-07 03:21:55 AM  
I just read the executive summary of the Iraq Survey Group report and thought exactly this. There is no way they can create security on their own. Everything I've heard says they are incompetent, weak, divided, and largely useless. They won't last a week without the US to bail them out each time somebody fires a shot, and at this point it isn't worth wasting more American lives when we can't really fix it anyway.
 
2006-12-07 03:23:29 AM  
I say we nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
 
2006-12-07 03:23:39 AM  
So, who's going to fight the war?
 
2006-12-07 03:25:53 AM  
I think it's so great we were able to help.

I haven't been emailed today's topic list so I can't tell you anything more.

Anyway, there is nothing that happens without God permitting it or ordaining it. If God has decided that Americans be hated worldwide, who am I to decide otherwise? I mean, it had to be God's decision--what competent human would've initiated or endorsed such a retarded plan in the first place?
 
2006-12-07 03:27:13 AM  
So, if we stay then we end up spending billions of dollars towards a worthless cause, while at the same time justifying the repeated insurgent attacks on us and aggravating the tensions that are building towards a civil war in Iraq. If we leave, parts of the Iraqi military will jump ship for fear of being killed as a result of collaborating with the US, while the region still dissolves into chaos.

Would all the Republicans who claimed that the descriptions of Iraq as a quagmire were hysterical and biased like to come forward and reassert their position? Please, I need something to laugh at right about now.
 
2006-12-07 03:30:52 AM  
You know, back when the whole Iraq thing started and some people were claiming that it would become like a modern-day Viet Nam (i.e., a nightmarish, inescapable quagmire with questionable purpose), I figured they were crackpots who didn't know what the fark they were talking about.

But it turns out they were pretty much right.
 
2006-12-07 03:30:55 AM  
I'm getting a kick out of these replies, and trust...

Dah, Fark it.

Hey, it's your tax dollars. We can't print this money. We're borrowing it from somewhere. That stuff takes a while to pay back. Wars cost money.

Survey Group/Study Group=sounds like another linguistic euphemistic ruse from a particular highly-placed Washington consultant and his ilk. Sorta like "roadside bomb" or "insurgent." I think this translates to English as "old rich guys brought in to gently break it to the Red states that we really did Fark this up and that your boy Bush has not the cranial capacity to iron what's left of this out"
 
2006-12-07 03:32:51 AM  
Its not a war, its ethnic hatred, and guess who created the power vacuum that caused it?

America has to stay in Iraq, the removal of Saddam has increased the number of deaths. Americans owe it to the world and to themselves. What a massive fark up; I would be a democrat, in the states, and I would be badgering the hell out of my rep to support keeping troops there ad infinitum. This goes beyond party lines, family lines. As a country that espouses democracy, and then who's elected leader used it as a pretext to become involved, it would severely erode the credibility of the US to switch to isolationist mode, and would basically condemn Iraq to years of mortality rates that would have been scoffed at by any supporter of the involvement 3 years ago.

As its turning out, both the Republicans and Democrats believe in Empire Lite(tm). I hope to god the voters and the soldiers can bear the tenacity required to share the cost of the gaffe.
 
2006-12-07 03:33:17 AM  
LOLz
 
2006-12-07 03:37:19 AM  
howdoibegin

The industrialized world wants nothing more than successful nation states, but it'll be darned if it doesn't find young America even cute for trying over and over and over.

It's like watching a retarded kid trying to swing a bat at a ball. Unfortunately, the tard is a 6'4" 250lbs giant that tends to break things and blame everyone else - his team mates, the opposition, the equipment supplier, the umpire - when he swings and misses.
 
2006-12-07 03:37:20 AM  
he wanted democracy in iraq and thats what he got... with freedom comes responsibility but they cant be trusted with it yet...
 
2006-12-07 03:37:38 AM  
they can come here and take the jobs Americans don't want.
 
2006-12-07 03:39:54 AM  
Hi mike,

Not an American so not a republican. However your description of a quagmire doesn't seem realistic. The United States has had fighting between its parties and beliefs since it was born. Neither side has won yet. The only difference here is y'all stopped using guns on each other a while ago.

Korea is still in 2 halves as well. Damned quagmire!
 
Kiz
2006-12-07 03:40:54 AM  
It's a bad situation, all around. I think the guy in the article is smart to get out while he still can.

In all likelyhood, we'll pull out and the Sunni and Shiites will go to war in earnest. If the other nations in the area would stay out of it, the Shiites would soon win and the Sunni would become the new oppressed underclass but at least the fighting would be over.

Unfortunately, Saudi Arabia (and any other Sunni nations in the area) will be funding their fellow Sunnis and Iran will be funding their fellow Shiites and the fighting will drag on and on and on...

It would be nice if things turned out differently, but I don't expect them to.
 
2006-12-07 03:41:03 AM  
howdoibegin: Americans owe it to the world and to themselves.


As a foreigner dictating our foreign policy, what is the rest of the world going to do for us?
 
2006-12-07 03:41:25 AM  
If these guys wanted to secure their country and end the insurgency, they would. It's as simple as that. The Iraqi "Army" is drawing from the same recruitment pool as say, the Mahdi Army or Suni insurgents, yet the Iraqi Army is totally ineffective while their opponents are efficient and deadly. This is true despite the fact that the insurgents have much less in the way of resources.

It's a matter of motivation, the insurgents have it, the security forces don't. I say we just cut our losses now and let whomever wants it most take over; that is what is going to eventaully happen anywhay. It's just a matter of when...

/We can always bomb them again if the new government gets squirrely.
 
2006-12-07 03:42:33 AM  
howdoibegin:
I hope to god the voters and the soldiers can bear the tenacity required to share the cost of the gaffe.

There's little chance of that now. Very little of the American political leadership has any desire to stay. Everyone wants an "exit with honor" but it won't happen. When we leave, Iraq will descend into further chaos and America and Europe will have a much higher price to pay than if we were to just stay there.

/Iraq veteran
//supported the decision to go to war in the beginning and still do
///think it's been farked all to hell
 
2006-12-07 03:44:08 AM  
why should we stand up for them if they dont stand up for themselves. I guess thats why they were living under a bloodthirsty dictator. freedom isnt given to you.
 
2006-12-07 03:45:37 AM  
PatMcCroch~
I have seen you in plenty of threads. You have NEVER said anything even remotely approaching a coherent argument except BBBBLLLAAAAHHH conservatives BLLLAAAHHH...

Please, would some of the level-headed left-leaning folks put his guy down for his own good....

He may be the only Farker I truly cannot stand...

/I think Bevets is funny
 
2006-12-07 03:45:42 AM  
Smart move by the Iraqi dude....

I would leave Iraq ASAP as well if I was there.

I feel very sorry for the poor Iraqi civilian population, the women and children, the old and the frail, who once again are bearing the brunt of a multitude of atrocities committed by a variety of idiots.

I guess this is what Bush meant by "we will fight them over there, not on our own soil".

How many Iraqi civilian dead now? 655,000 or more?

It is so very sad that Iraqi civilians have to be the ones to pay for 9/11, even though they had nothing to do with it.

I think this is a definate case of a war crime.

But Iraq cannot even be saved from worse to come, they have open civil war about to break out, and many thousands more will die horrific deaths.

The poor Iraqi civilian population..... I heart goes out to them.
 
2006-12-07 03:45:51 AM  
a republic, if you can keep it
 
2006-12-07 03:46:28 AM  
Well, George the first said it best when he weeped for the fallen hero that Jeb turned out to be. He broke down crying because his model son turned into a lowly governer, and the brat turned into president. Congrats HW, the underachiever has turned pleasing his daddy into the destruction of western civilization. I hope you have to drink yourself to sleep at night realizing your preferential treatment of your first child has destroyed everything you worked for, and started the toppling of America as the supreme world power.

Congrats, daddy-o. The worthless child has destroyed everything you stood for in a effort to seek your approval. Hope you are a proud papa.
 
2006-12-07 03:47:30 AM  
Wow. So I goes and RTFA. Who are these chubsters and their Brave New American Century that they thought up because they did not have enough fantasy play in the sandbox when they were children?

Oh yeah...prepare for the Norteno Mexican dudes to be mayors of the Waterloo, Iowas, Yakima, Washingtons, Dodge Center, Minnesotas and Rochelle, Illinois in about 10-15 years. Then watch as they biatch about all those Iraqi dudes coming in and driving down wages! Watch as the more "librul" elements of their towns counter that those Iraqi people take the jobs no one else wants! Ha ha! If the shoe fits...
 
2006-12-07 03:49:44 AM  
why should we stand up for them if they dont stand up for themselves

I suspect that certain people oppose withdrawal before the whole Iraq mess is fixed because the (current) official excuse for said mess revolves around making Iraq into a mini-U.S. Withdrawal now would shatter that excuse, and then they'd have to come up with (yet) another one.
 
2006-12-07 03:51:38 AM  
Wow, what a dumb war.
 
2006-12-07 03:51:52 AM  
ken_b

Ok, you're describing the conflict between political parties through the medium of the democratic process and the conflict between two seperate sovereign nations who are hostile towards each other while refraining from open violence to the situation in a country that we invaded,and are still occupying while still facing significant troop deaths due to a conflict that has no set goal. Do you see the disconnect? Do you understand that Republicans vs Democrats is not the same thing as Shiite insurgents blowing up civilians and soldiers?

Also, it may interest you to learn that Korea was a bit of a quagmire when we actually had an active military presence there. That's, um, you know, why we didn't actually win the war. Damned quagmire, indeed.

/drunk, so if my language is a bit confusing, that's why
 
2006-12-07 03:56:20 AM  
wHAT? no wAY! We lost the war because Alan Alda could not stave off the human wave assaults with his rapier wit, silly pants. That and Major Frank Burns was such a killjoy and the Turks and plastic stocks were all melty and stuff.
 
2006-12-07 03:56:33 AM  
squirrelinator: Please, would some of the level-headed left-leaning folks put his guy down for his own good....

I would, but I've had him on my ignore list since the third post. Seriously, the guy's worse than tgot.
 
2006-12-07 03:56:57 AM  
PatMcCroch: Oh btw...Neo-con-tard speak: "OOHHH what about the GOOD!!!! the schools are open!!!!"

howdoibegin: The industrialized world wants nothing more than successful nation states, but it'll be darned if it doesn't find young America even cute for trying over and over and over. Though far from idealy, Britain did it so much better what with actual real free trade.

pleasuretaco: Oh yeah...prepare for the Norteno Mexican dudes to be mayors of the Waterloo, Iowas, Yakima, Washingtons, Dodge Center, Minnesotas and Rochelle, Illinois in about 10-15 years. Then watch as they biatch about all those Iraqi dudes coming in and driving down wages! Watch as the more "librul" elements of their towns counter that those Iraqi people take the jobs no one else wants!

swingbozo: Well, George the first said it best when he weeped for the fallen hero that Jeb turned out to be. He broke down crying because his model son turned into a lowly governer, and the brat turned into president.


Did fark install some sort of incoherence filter that also removes any point to the posts?
 
2006-12-07 04:00:32 AM  
FriarTuck

Sorry. This is fark, and it's like 1am on a thursday. You want logic at this hour?
 
2006-12-07 04:01:12 AM  
I don't get it. You tie a boat anchor to your foot and toss it overboard. Now you're worried that you're going to lose a perfectly good boat anchor if you loose the knot?
 
2006-12-07 04:01:33 AM  
Yet another of the 0 countries America has successfully converted in its storied history from totalitarionism to a peaceful westernized democracy.

Uh, what about Japan and Germany? They fit your description.

/not comparing WWII to Iraq
//not condoning Iraq either
 
2006-12-07 04:02:54 AM  
carridin1

If these guys wanted to secure their country and end the insurgency, they would. It's as simple as that.

You didn't RTFA did you? The measure of democracy America has given them has lead the political arms of the insurgent militias to believe they are legitimate. Of course, there little bit of legitimacy has lead them to think that those that oppose THEM are illegitimate. Iraq was a single-party, secular military dictatorship. Now you lot have come along and turned the place into a complete clusterfark. You think controlling one dictator is hard? Try controlling twenty warlords, all driven by god.

And just letting whomever wants to take over do so is incredibly naive. How many people do you think would die in the ensuing bloodbath? One million? Ten million? You want that on your conscience?

Your staying until the job is done. Bush will be in The Hague up on war crimes if Iraq isn't fixed before he leaves office. If the Rest of the World is forced to clean up your mess, it'll want a pound of flesh for it.
 
2006-12-07 04:03:30 AM  
FriarTuck: Our incoherence belies our hatred of freedom.
 
2006-12-07 04:04:35 AM  
greyson

why should we stand up for them if they dont stand up for themselves.



Because you invaded their country, disbanded their army, gutted their ministries of all effective personel and then failed to provide adequate security. If you think about it, you're kind of responsible for them now.
 
2006-12-07 04:05:55 AM  
Calvin Coolidge

Ahh, remember the good ol days when wars were fought for a purpose? I wasn't even alive back then and I still miss those times.
 
2006-12-07 04:08:58 AM  
The Army was disbanded. This was very bad. The dudes who did not get to play in their sandbox who orchestrated this mess equated Baathism with Nazism. This was not true. So you end up destroying a working institution which kept the place together. Jeebus, this was not rocket science.
 
2006-12-07 04:10:40 AM  
Dave The Slushy:
And just letting whomever wants to take over do so is incredibly naive. How many people do you think would die in the ensuing bloodbath? One million? Ten million? You want that on your conscience?

Your staying until the job is done. Bush will be in The Hague up on war crimes if Iraq isn't fixed before he leaves office. If the Rest of the World is forced to clean up your mess, it'll want a pound of flesh for it.


Iraq won't be fixed before Bush leaves office. It never could have been, even if all the factions in Iraq hadn't splintered all to hell against each other. Iraq had to be a long-term commitment from the beginning, even if the Bush Administration didn't sell it as such. When we leave, and it will be sooner rather than later because the majority of American politicians and public don't have the willpower to stay, Iraq will experience a much more horrible bloodbath than what is currently taking place and it will spread to Iraq's neighbors. The "Rest of the World" won't just be cleaning up the mess, it will be the mess. America and Europe will be paying for this for decades.
 
2006-12-07 04:14:29 AM  
I don't think anybody in the administration has thought Iraq through. They're trying to find an out that won't make it seem like they lost. They're going to re-define their goals until they can break out the "mission accomplished" banner from the whitehouse broom closet and say they accomplished their goals.

What they don't realize is that no matter how many banners they put up, no matter how much they try to redefine their goals or find a politically acceptable (ie, less damaging) way of leaving, the image will be the same.

Remember the news reports of Afghans cheering in the streets, saying goodbye as Soviet troops pulled out in their tanks? It'll be the same, thing, except it'll be an Abrahms. Unless of course, they choose to evacuate our servicement via choppers from the roof of an embassy.

So just spare us the protracted political tap dance and pull these guys and girls out of there already. If they haven't managed to make things better in three years I just can't possibly see how two more are going to go any differently.

/I don't agree with Gates that we lost in Iraq
//we actually won that war (defeated army, leader in jail)
///we also managed to create a new one (civil war).
 
2006-12-07 04:15:30 AM  
So...............when is this BLATENT and PREDICTED cluster fark gonna be over?


//liberals called it
\\\\just like EVERY OTHER fark up of W-tards
 
2006-12-07 04:16:49 AM  
swingbozo

Congrats HW, the underachiever has turned pleasing his daddy into the destruction of western civilization.

*cue reet-features McFlightsuit with a baseball bat*

Daaadi! *CRASH!* Look at me daadi! *MINGVASEGOSMASH!* I'm teh prez daadi! *KITTYGOESFLYIN!* Doz u be proud of me now daadi?

/Farking tard
 
2006-12-07 04:19:46 AM  
swingbozo: Sorry. This is fark, and it's like 1am on a thursday. You want logic at this hour?


This was one of those odd threads where the rants were so crazy and tangental I wondered if there was something wrong with the site itself- other than the fact that it is populated by hateful misanthropes who post incessant pictures of their cats.
 
2006-12-07 04:22:37 AM  
I'm probably not knowledgeable enough on this whole thing to propose anything, yet maybe I'm ignorant enough to provide a fresh perspective.

Could the US try to bring the two factions together and use pulling out as a bargaining chip?

Split Iraq, give each faction their territory, and make the implementation of that (as well as US withdrawal) contingent on a truce between them. If each faction wishes, they can keep peacekeepers in their countries (helping with borders) until things have cooled down enough for police forces and armies to get back online.
 
2006-12-07 04:24:23 AM  
As pissed off as I am at W, I'm even more pissed off at the average American moron who supported this stupid war in the first place.

Did you really believe that Saddam had the capability of using WMDs against the US? If you all were paying attention, you would have known that our very own Colin Powell, in a speach given prior to 9/11, outlined just how innefectual Saddam was. There was plenty of information out there that contradicted W's assertion that Saddam and Al Queda were connected. We're living in the age of the internet, for crying out loud! You can research shiat!!! You let your desire for revenge (for what was truly a heinous crime against our country) blind you. You reacted instead of thinking things through, just like our dumbass president.

Where are all the Bush bandwagoners now? The folks who bought every last roll of duct tape off the shelves to protect themselves from a biochemical attack? The folks who thought we could just waltz in to Iraq and the Iraqi people would be celebrating in the streets?

You all are the same dipshiats who buy Britney Spears and Clay Aikins albums and watch reality TV. Please America, I'm begging you to pull your collective heads out of your asses and start THINKING about things. Don't blindly adhere to some party line because you've chosen to label yourself a Republican or Democrat. I've got some startling news for you...neither party has all the answers. In fact, most of the time they don't even know what the hell they're voting for, they just blindly follow the "party line".

I was saying all of this prior to the Iraq war and nobody was listening. George W Bush will go down in history as the President that brought ruin to our economy, instability to the Middle East, sent thousands of our children off to die in a worthless war, destroyed any goodwill we had built up among the international community, and basically screwed America for the benefit of his buddies' financial interest.

Thank you. That is all.

/drunken rant
 
2006-12-07 04:25:05 AM  
mars22

So...............when is this BLATENT and PREDICTED cluster fark gonna be over?

Ever heard of the phrase perpetual war?

Someone better be up on war crimes by the end of the decade.
 
2006-12-07 04:28:29 AM  
So did anyone else notice the

day in iraq
... 1 Suspected terrorist killed by US aircraft


lol that's hilarious from my standpoint. I see a apache rolling out and seeing some random guy in the desert "Oh man it's a skinny!" and laying him out.
 
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