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(MSNBC)   Finally, definitive proof that everything the Bible says about Noah is true: Ancient tsunami destroyed Mediterranean cultures. And it could come back EVERYBODY PANIC   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 658
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14393 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2006 at 5:48 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-11-30 01:36:42 PM
Article says Mediterranian. Bible says, the entire planet.

Nice try.
 
2006-11-30 01:37:45 PM
Maybe it explains why almost every ancient culture in that area of the world had their own variation of a flood myth.
 
2006-11-30 01:48:41 PM
meshman

Scholars are supposedly arguing over what was meant by that. The known world at the time or the world as we know it?
 
2006-11-30 01:50:34 PM
Don't you mean Moses? That might have pulled back the sea and then a short time later come back in a massive wave to kill the Egyptions. Of course, the wave probably would have killed the hebrews as well.
 
2006-11-30 01:53:28 PM
Genesis 1-11 isn't historical. Can we move past this please?
 
2006-11-30 01:57:18 PM
____________________ (\ ____________\o/________
 
2006-11-30 01:57:34 PM
And as for worldwide flood myths, most cultures have flood myths because floods occur just about everywhere at some time or another. When you see your entire village go under water, you think its an act of God. You are going to want to write a story about it. Another culture comes by and reads your story but wants to prove that their god is better than your god so they copy your story and one-up it. My god flooded the entire country! Oh yeah? My god flooded the entire WORLD!
 
2006-11-30 01:59:35 PM
nfkiller

That looks like a man being attacked by a really big pinky toe.
 
2006-11-30 01:59:46 PM
this must be why, historically, 'etna' has been such an important crossword clue.
 
2006-11-30 02:02:07 PM
5000_gallons_of_toothpaste: Don't you mean Moses? That might have pulled back the sea and then a short time later come back in a massive wave to kill the Egyptions.

The splitting of the Sea of Reeds is a natural phenomenon. It only accured at a miraculous time.

And you do realize that the Torah account of how it happened (the wind blew all night) is not the Hollywood version (Moshe orders the sea to pull back and it does), right?
 
2006-11-30 02:04:57 PM
BobtheFascist: Scholars are supposedly arguing over what was meant by that. The known world at the time or the world as we know it?

Not that I care a bunch either way, but the supposed actions of mysterious scholars don't form a very strong foundation for argument.
 
2006-11-30 02:06:14 PM
Tatsuma: The splitting of the Sea of Reeds is a natural phenomenon. It only accured at a miraculous time.

And you do realize that the Torah account of how it happened (the wind blew all night) is not the Hollywood version (Moshe orders the sea to pull back and it does), right?


It is possible, but this is also another possible reason. And its a heck of alot closer to Moses than Noah.
 
2006-11-30 02:06:41 PM
5000_gallons_of_toothpaste: That looks like a man being attacked by a really big pinky toe.

Or a guy who fell off of a sailboat.

/it's awesome, nfkiller
 
2006-11-30 02:06:56 PM
Don't you mean Moses?

Except for the fact that the tsunami happened over 4000 years before Moses is thought to have lived.
 
2006-11-30 02:09:02 PM
5000_gallons_of_toothpaste:

There was a really great program on the Discovery channel awhile back explaining the Moses story all 10 plagues and the parting of the red sea as a result of a nearby volcano. It was incredible because it matched a similar incident in Africa (i think) in 1989 (i think).
 
2006-11-30 02:09:04 PM
...before the time frame in which Moses is thought to have lived.
 
2006-11-30 02:09:07 PM
jsnbase: Or a guy who fell off of a sailboat.

That's what I also thought, but then I realized it was nfkiller and the mighty toe was probably one of his victims seeking revenge.
 
2006-11-30 02:12:18 PM
5000_gallons_of_toothpaste: That's what I also thought, but then I realized it was nfkiller and the mighty toe was probably one of his victims seeking revenge.

it's not very original... someone did a headline like that a while back for a shark attack... so immatation being the best form of flattery.
 
2006-11-30 02:14:10 PM
I don't care if there was a wave big enough to touch the freaking moon, there is no way an old man and his sons built a boat big enough to hold two of every species on earth.
 
2006-11-30 02:20:30 PM
vartian: I don't care if there was a wave big enough to touch the freaking moon, there is no way an old man and his sons built a boat big enough to hold two of every species on earth.

Well, it did take them 120 years.
 
2006-11-30 02:26:35 PM
Of course. Because there was a flood, that means some 900 year old man herded two of every species of animal into a big boat.
 
2006-11-30 02:29:22 PM
The Biblical story of the Great Flood doesn't even come within a country mile of even passing the laugh test, so it's not even worth the effort trying to point out the many levels on which it's silly.
 
2006-11-30 02:29:42 PM
There is also the theory of the area around the Black Sea being populated, and a break opening up near present day Istanbul, causing water from the Mediterranean to flood the area rather quickly. Google Map.
Wiki item about Black Sea theory
National Geographic item on Dr. Robert Ballard's exploration.
 
2006-11-30 02:30:32 PM
5000_gallons_of_toothpaste: Don't you mean Moses? That might have pulled back the sea and then a short time later come back in a massive wave to kill the Egyptions. Of course, the wave probably would have killed the hebrews as well.

Umm, what?

The Reed Sea is a swamp. People on foot can easily outrun chariots through a swamp. (Red Sea was a mistranslation)
 
2006-11-30 02:36:25 PM
Tatsuma: Well, it did take them 120 years.

So it took them 120 years to build a boat, fine. If you want to argue that it is a possible account for an event that really occured, the part that is hardest to swallow is that in 40 days they were able round Africa, all the way to Australia to pick kangaroos and koalas, go grab llamas in Southern America, make a left, grab beavers and grizzlies in Canada, and return to Turkey or Iran to see the top of the mountain not far off from where they started.

It's also a shame they don't mention how the platypuses made it back Down under, after the flood. I really think the script-writer cut corners there. The platypuses' story should have had a proper ending, IMHO.
 
2006-11-30 02:38:54 PM
Flab: the part that is hardest to swallow

I'm wondering how he managed to get 900,000 insect species.
 
2006-11-30 02:39:37 PM
Flab: the part that is hardest to swallow is that in 40 days they were able round Africa, all the way to Australia to pick kangaroos and koalas, go grab llamas in Southern America, make a left, grab beavers and grizzlies in Canada, and return to Turkey or Iran to see the top of the mountain not far off from where they started.

But... they didn't. Here's how miracles generally work:

Man goes as far as he can, and G-d picks up when man can't go any further.

Building the Ark was not so that it would be big enough to contain all the animals. It was so that Noah would do as much as possible before G-d makes a miracle. Noah could have made an ark big enough for him to crawl in, and G-d would have made it so that all the animals of the world could fit in. But what's the point?

For 120 years, Noah was building the ark. When people asked him what he was doing, he could explain and give them a chance to repent.

The animals were brought by G-d. The only animals Noah had to gather were the 7 pairs of kosher ones, since they would be used in a different way.
 
2006-11-30 02:42:12 PM
Tatsuma: For 120 years, Noah was building the ark. When people asked him what he was doing, he could explain and give them a chance to repent.

Which makes it awesome myth - a morality tale, not an historical event. Those who look for the facts and evidence tend to miss the entire point of the story.
 
2006-11-30 02:42:17 PM
Flab: the part that is hardest to swallow is that in 40 days they were able...

You're overthinking it. The summit of Ararat is 16,854 feet, the atmosphere would have been mighty, mighty thin and awfully cold at what would have been the new sea level for the length of their voyage.
 
2006-11-30 02:42:46 PM
But I still would not call this an "enormity."
 
2006-11-30 02:43:18 PM
mediaho: Those who look for the facts and evidence tend to miss the entire point of the story.

Exactly.
 
2006-11-30 02:48:14 PM
Tatsuma: Man goes as far as he can, and G-d picks up when man can't go any further.

We're in agreement, then. My only beef is with people who say that this is an historical account of what happened, that Everest only became higher than Ararat later on, etc...
 
2006-11-30 02:49:45 PM
mediaho: Those who look for the facts and evidence tend to miss the entire point of the story.

The point of the story depends greatly upon ones own point of view.

Where one person might see a tale of the last righteous people being saved, another might see a vengeful and genocidal God bent on punishing people for a mistake He made and didn't have the foresight to anticipate.
 
2006-11-30 02:56:06 PM
Essentially nothing in the bible is verifiably true -- certainly not the most important parts -- and most of it is obviously just silly if regarded as history or non-fiction of any sort.
 
2006-11-30 03:01:59 PM
Occams_Electric_Razor: Where one person might see a tale of the last righteous people being saved, another might see a vengeful and genocidal God bent on punishing people for a mistake He made and didn't have the foresight to anticipate.

And yet another might see a giant load of BS.
 
2006-11-30 03:03:32 PM
mbrother: Essentially nothing in the bible is verifiably true -- certainly not the most important parts -- and most of it is obviously just silly if regarded as history or non-fiction of any sort.

As said earlier (cf. 2006-11-30 02:42:12 PM mediaho [TotalFark]), if you view the Bible as a glorified weather report, you're missing the point.
 
2006-11-30 03:10:22 PM
Occams_Electric_Razor: punishing people for a mistake He made and didn't have the foresight to anticipate.

A man once planted a tree so he could his first son a cradle. For 20 years, the man took care of the tree, cut the branches that seemed to start dying, removed the parasites and everything he could to make sure the tree would grow as healthy as possible. One day, the man's wife told him the great news, she was pregnant! The next morning, the man took his ax and went outside. It pained him very much to cut a tree that had given him shade for years, a tree he had cared and worked so much for, but for the sake of his son, he had to cut this tree.

The man knew, when he first planted the tree, that he would have to cut it. It didn't stop him from planting the tree in the first place.
 
2006-11-30 03:16:27 PM
Tatsuma: The man knew, when he first planted the tree, that he would have to cut it. It didn't stop him from planting the tree in the first place.

No matter how you want to spin genocide it's still genocide.

You're okay when God does it but get antsy when a German takes on the task?
 
2006-11-30 03:16:32 PM
Flab: As said earlier (cf. 2006-11-30 02:42:12 PM mediaho [TotalFark]), if you view the Bible as a glorified weather report, you're missing the point.

Yes, we should get back to the real message of the Bible: Yahweh will fark you up if you cheat on him and don't keep his commandments.

1. Worship no other god than Yahweh: Make no covenant with the inhabitants of other lands to which you go, do not intermarry with them, and destroy their places of worship.
2. Do not cast idols.
3. Observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days in the month of Abib.
4. Sacrifice firstborn male animals to Yahweh. The firstborn of a donkey may be redeemed; redeem firstborn sons.
5. Do no work or even kindle a fire on the seventh day. Anyone who does so will be put to death.
6. Observe the Feast of First Fruits and the Feast of Ingathering: All males are therefore to appear before Yahweh three times each year.
7. Do not mix sacrificial blood with leavened bread.
8. Do not let the fat of offerings remain until the morning.
9. Bring the choicest first fruits of the harvest to the Temple of Yahweh.
10. Do not cook a goat in its mother's milk.
 
2006-11-30 03:19:08 PM
I'm not debating whether you consider it moral or amoral.

I'm pointing out the logical error you tried to get across:

Occams_Electric_Razor: punishing people for a mistake He made and didn't have the foresight to anticipate.

That's completely wrong. It couldn't be more wrong.

You seem gung ho on insulting G-d and Torah, I know nothing I can say could reach you so I'm not going to try.
 
2006-11-30 03:35:12 PM
itsdan: Maybe it explains why almost every ancient culture in that area of the world had their own variation of a flood myth.

You are close. Gilgamesh came before the story of Noah, the story of Gilgamesh was known by the Babylonians, the Jewish people were in this area before they were called Jews. Started to get it? The bible is nothing but a collection of stolen stories. Atleast until you get to the new testament, then it is mostly lies.
 
2006-11-30 03:43:55 PM
mjcarr01:the Jewish people were in this area before they were called Jews.

Wrong. The Jews had already received Torah far before they ever came in contact with the Babylonians.

The Native Americans, the Hindus and others have flood stories too, does this mean they spent time in Babylon?

Started to get it? The bible is nothing but a collection of stolen stories.

Again, got it completely wrong. When it comes to Torah, I give it to you, we don't have a lot of historical proofs. Hell, we don't have a lot of historical proofs for ANYTHING that ranges from 3,300 years ago or earlier

But from the Book of Joshua and on, we have more and more archeological proofs the closer to us you get. Most of this is proven historically. The supernatural stuff? Well, can't prove that. That there was a King David, a Shlomo, two Temples, etc.. absolutely.
 
2006-11-30 03:52:05 PM
what's a cubit?
 
2006-11-30 03:53:44 PM
Holy Utnapishtim!
 
2006-11-30 03:53:54 PM
Tatsuma: The Native Americans, the Hindus and others have flood stories too, does this mean they spent time in Babylon?

It more than likely has nothing to do with any actual flood. Floods that wipe out cultures are common in mythology because they're a universal fear.

Common themes in myths point to hopes and fears that all humans have. That's why many cultures have resurrections, devastating floods, fires, and earthquakes, the weak defeating the strong, etc.
 
2006-11-30 04:05:26 PM
Tatsuma: The Native Americans, the Hindus and others have flood stories too, does this mean they spent time in Babylon?

Have you read the epic of Gilgamesh? It is not another flood story, it is the story of Noah almost word for word.

That there was a King David, a Shlomo, two Temples, etc.. absolutely.

That does not mean that the rest is true, in fact it implies nothing. The best science fiction is based on facts.
 
2006-11-30 04:11:20 PM
mjcarr01: That there was a King David, a Shlomo, two Temples, etc.. absolutely.

That does not mean that the rest is true, in fact it implies nothing. The best science fiction is based on facts.


I like to use this example when this idea comes up:

Say, for instance, archaeologists find a copy of Gone With The Wind in 2,000 years.

Just because they would be able to:

- Prove there was once a United States;
- Prove there was once a Civil War;
- Prove there was a state called Georgia and a city called Atlanta;
- And maybe even find evidence of people living at that time named Rhett and Scarlett

Does not mean that they've found Rhett Butler and Scarlett O'Hara.
 
2006-11-30 04:25:16 PM
ajax6677
There was a really great program on the Discovery channel awhile back explaining the Moses story all 10 plagues and the parting of the red sea as a result of a nearby volcano. It was incredible because it matched a similar incident in Africa (i think) in 1989 (i think).

Saw that one. It was good. They linked Moses occurring at the same time as the massive Santorini eruption. I'll see if I can dig something up on it.
 
2006-11-30 04:43:00 PM
Think this kind of covers it, but not as well...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/history/moses_4.shtml
 
2006-11-30 04:55:04 PM
Sloth_DC: Do no work or even kindle a fire on the seventh day.

what if it is really cold out? or do you just make a huge ass fire Saturday night and hope it lasts until Monday morning?
 
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