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(Billings Gazette)   Californians pay $30,000 in fees and taxes on a $350,000 RV, but Montanans pay only $300, creating a textbook win-win situation: Californians get to buy RVs on the cheap in Montana, and Montanans get to watch them drive away   (billingsgazette.net) divider line 93
    More: Amusing  
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6885 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Nov 2006 at 9:20 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-11-28 10:29:57 AM  
ultramarinblaa

We're spoiled because the government doesn't try to take everything we own? Sorry...no

---

I bought my car out of state and they made me pay tax on it when I registered it here. I don't see why it wouldn't be the same with an RV. It is stupid though--they see that the higher taxes are hurting the state, so they set up task forces (spending MORE MONEY) to try to close the gap instead of doing the obvious thing--reducing the tax to take away the incentive to go out of state. Taxes here are the highest outside of the east coast and we still can't close the budget gap or pave our damn roads.
 
2006-11-28 10:37:09 AM  
nursetim

Just makes me wonder how much money is actually brought in when you subtract the money that is required to track down these people.

Yup...but when you think about it, even if it costs just as much to recover the revenue as it you make off it, it's win / win for the state. They have one or more employees who are being paid to track these people down, and those employees are paying THEIR income tax too.

So, from a state's perspective, it really doesn't need to MAKE money off anything. It just needs to make sure the money stays flowing through as many hands as possible so they can take their 3%, 5%, 6.5%, 20%(oh, income tax) as many times as possible.
 
2006-11-28 10:38:33 AM  
I love hearing from all of the patriots out there who support the troops, love their home state, like to drive on smooth roads and enjoy public services, but try to get out of paying taxes whenever possible.

You live in one of the greatest countries on the planet. You must like the state you live in, or you shouldn't be living there. Pay yer damn taxes and be grateful.
 
2006-11-28 10:41:29 AM  
Sales tax is for Commies.

/Montanan
//Hates everyone
///GOML!
 
2006-11-28 10:47:02 AM  
I'd be happy if Kalifornia seceded.
 
2006-11-28 10:49:01 AM  
Any sales tax is an insult.

You're already taxed on the money you earn. To pay a tax for spending your money is insane, whether you're buying a hamburger, or a $350,000 RV.

I can't believe people don't take up arms against sales-taxing states, let alone look for any semi-legal loophole they can find.
 
2006-11-28 11:00:21 AM  
if there was ever something crying out for interstate commerce protection, this would be it.

Nothing nobler than tax avoidance.
 
2006-11-28 11:02:38 AM  
lostcat: Oh noes! I have to pay more money on top of my $350,000 RV!?

I guess I shouldn't buy a $350,000 RV if I can't afford the freaking taxes on it.

If you can afford to spend $350,000 on a vehicle, you shouldn't be biatching about taxes.

Whiny farkers.


People with 350,000 to spend don't get that way by overlooking thousands of dollars spent in taxes.

People who are money smart pay attention to that kind of thing. That's why they have money.

/not me, I'm broke..
 
2006-11-28 11:03:13 AM  
I think it's funny when people pick and choose when they are a proponent of state's rights based on however it would benefit them the most andd issue by issue. You want good schools and you want good roads and you want lower taxes. If you don't like the laws of the state you live in... get the fark out. How is some douchebag who defrauds the state of it's lawful licensing fees any different than another douchebaq who gets all the wallets out of the purses in the coat check room at the fancy restaurant? Both involve stealing. Neither one is a violent crime. Another thing that gets my goat is that some of the same people who think mp3 downloading is "stealing" will do whatever they can to avoid sales tax and licensing fees. Hypocrites.
 
2006-11-28 11:17:59 AM  
I see why democrats want to destroy capitalism, they haven't got a freaking clue how it works. They got powned by Montanaians. Maybe the extra taxation helps further isolate californians from actually having to live close to poor people.
 
2006-11-28 11:20:20 AM  
I love it when people stick it to The Man.
 
2006-11-28 11:24:10 AM  
Question: Are use taxes Constitutional? I'm thinking "interstate commerce" here.
 
2006-11-28 11:26:47 AM  
A point I think people are missing here: The RV is bought *and registered* in Montana. It is never re-registered in California, therefore California never gets their mitts on the sales tax and/or registration fees.

And you better believe the CHP will pull you over for having out of state plates in a heartbeat, just to make sure you're a tourist and not a resident. If you're pulled over in a vehicle with out of state plates and you have a California driver's license and California insurance, you'll be calling a taxi to take you home, cuz they'll impound your vehicle.

I was one tired CHP officer away from having that happen to me. He put my details in the computer and gave me a warning. Another friend got the warning and then got to call a taxi a few months later after being pulled over a second time - they impounded his car.
 
2006-11-28 11:30:11 AM  
I love you guys. You think school-teachers and firemen work for free, and the roads you drive on just grow there like weeds do, and water just magically appears from nowhere when you turn your taps, and when you flush your toilets the sewage just vanishes presto!

It would sure be nice to live in a country inhabited by adults.
 
2006-11-28 11:33:28 AM  
The Icelander: How would I go about starting an LLC, and how much does it cost?

Depends on the state I suppose.

For instance in Colorado, Trusts are free (no state filing requirement) and LLC's are 50.00 (if I remember correctly).

http://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/business/main.htm
 
2006-11-28 11:36:08 AM  
Milkbeer: I see why democrats want to destroy capitalism, they haven't got a freaking clue how it works. They got powned by Montanaians. Maybe the extra taxation helps further isolate californians from actually having to live close to poor people.

Hey, someone's home sick from grade school!
 
2006-11-28 11:38:04 AM  
Nightsweat
If you're buying a $350,000 RV and you're not willing to pay $30K in taxes on it to offset the damage it will do to the roads and air, you're an anti-social freeloader.

That's why gas taxes are so appropriate. Owners of larger vehicles that do more damage to the road will will end up paying more taxes to repair the road. You don't need sales taxes for that.
 
2006-11-28 11:38:20 AM  
If you are a legal resident of California you have 3 weeks to re-register a vehicle bought out side the state or face a hefty fine in addition to 8.75% sales tax on the MSRP and registration fees the are the highest in the nation. Also if you vehicle dose not meet Cal smog standards (also the most strict in the nation), you will have to have it "corrected" before you can register it. Oh yeah, you'll have to get a smog certificate too.
 
2006-11-28 11:41:08 AM  
Correction: the are the should be: that are the.
 
2006-11-28 11:45:03 AM  
Glassfish: If I remember correctly, Galts Gulch was in Colorado. IMHO he wouldnt be living here today though, unless he had overthrown the government in a well crafted coup involving the dissolution of major economic drivers...


Telluride was the inspiration for Galt's Gulch.

EricInSF: And you better believe the CHP will pull you over for having out of state plates in a heartbeat, just to make sure you're a tourist and not a resident. If you're pulled over in a vehicle with out of state plates and you have a California driver's license and California insurance, you'll be calling a taxi to take you home, cuz they'll impound your vehicle.

Yes and no. I lived in Blythe, which is on the border of California and Arizona. I had AZ plates -- for years. Was never pulled over. You can own vehicles that are registered out of state as long as they are garaged in that state. Alternatively, if you live within 25 miles of the border, you can get a commuter permit for $25 at the Cal DMV. The permit allows you to use your vehicle on a daily basis in California without registering it in the state. Additionally, state law requires that you re-register your vehicle within 10-days of bringing it into the state. Unless that CHP saw the thing sitting in your driveway for the past month, the 10-days can plausibly start the day you get pulled over with out-of-state plates.
 
2006-11-28 11:45:43 AM  
crazyjae: Glassfish: If I remember correctly, Galts Gulch was in Colorado. IMHO he wouldnt be living here today though, unless he had overthrown the government in a well crafted coup involving the dissolution of major economic drivers...

Telluride was the inspiration for Galt's Gulch.




Ooops. Correction. It was Ouray.
 
2006-11-28 12:03:15 PM  
wkiernan

I love you guys. You think school-teachers and firemen work for free, and the roads you drive on just grow there like weeds do, and water just magically appears from nowhere when you turn your taps, and when you flush your toilets the sewage just vanishes presto!

It would sure be nice to live in a country inhabited by adults.


The issue is that every other state in the union manages to do the exact same things with less money, not the fact that taxes *exist* in the first place. Duh.
 
2006-11-28 12:12:08 PM  
This would be a better deal if it didn't take about $30,000 in gas to drive one of those behemoths from Montana to California. ;~)


Bo 'n Luke

Any sales tax is an insult.

You're already taxed on the money you earn. To pay a tax for spending your money is insane


This is Capitalism at work: you are not paying a tax, you are subsidizing the business you buy from. THEY have to pay tax on their income, too, which is the money you are spending. Your "sales" tax" is actually giving them a tax cut, which is why they choose to do business in your state.

Sorry if you find this insulting, but you can always choose to vote against political incumbents in hopes things may change.
 
2006-11-28 12:29:24 PM  
For the record, I do enjoy the outdoors and do go camping from time to time. I feel the fees on any RV should be $350,000. For my $350,000, I'll be staying at 5 star hotels in areas where there is stuff to do and not concering myself with trifles like "can I crap today or should I empty the tank?". I'd rather see people drive an H2 and for me that's saying a lot. I don't know the specifics, but I'd be willing to bet there are no supplemental driving classes for these things. If there are, the schools are way too lax with giving the go ahead to drive something that is the size of a semi and close to the same mass.
 
2006-11-28 12:39:38 PM  
Tom-Servo:"Nogami: Actually, I was thinking last week that maybe I should sell my condo (probably $200k or so), sell my car (another $25k or so), then just move to another country and retire in my 30s, rather than working...

bye bye."

He's taking your house and wife with him Tommy boy. Suck it.
 
2006-11-28 12:41:31 PM  
JohnBigBootay: Both involve stealing.

Huh? IIRC stealing involves taking something from someone. There is a difference between stealing something and not giving something. By registering an RV in Montana you are not stealing tax money from California you just aren't giving tax money to California. That's why it's called "tax evasion" and not "theft". If this is such a large problem perhaps CA should re-examine it's tax policies.
 
2006-11-28 12:46:21 PM  
ultramarinblaa:"You americans sure are spoiled. Here in Denmark you pay 60% tax on a RV. It was lowered from the usual tax on large cars, which is 180%."

Yeah but we have counties bigger than Denmark and States half the size of Europe. Aside from the tax thing, It takes a while here to get to some places. A motorhome (and there's plenty available under $350k) isn't so bad an idea when travelling.
 
2006-11-28 12:54:21 PM  
bring it:"For the record, I do enjoy the outdoors and do go camping from time to time. I feel the fees on any RV should be $350,000. For my $350,000, I'll be staying at 5 star hotels in areas where there is stuff to do and not concering myself with trifles like "can I crap today or should I empty the tank?". I'd rather see people drive an H2 and for me that's saying a lot. I don't know the specifics, but I'd be willing to bet there are no supplemental driving classes for these things. If there are, the schools are way too lax with giving the go ahead to drive something that is the size of a semi and close to the same mass."

You haven't been paying attention. There's supplemental restrictions on RV driving. California, et al, require CDLs to drive them, even though they only have 2 axles and aren't pulling trailers, so yes there are more requirements. And in defense of RV owners, $350k for a motor home is a goddamn nice one. Custom at that. The hal-mil ones are just for assholes.

But while were at it with the taxes, since you don't have a problem with a 100% tax on someone else's lifestyle choice, we're going to put a 500% tax on tents, raise the day use fees on campgrounds, add a per-mile-hiked tax, and charge you $100 a bottle for water purification tablets. And if you pee in a river it's a felony. Two for making happy faces on a glacier.

Eat it.
 
2006-11-28 01:16:09 PM  
bring_it
For the record, I do enjoy the outdoors and do go camping from time to time. I feel the fees on any RV should be $350,000. For my $350,000, I'll be staying at 5 star hotels in areas where there is stuff to do and not concering myself with trifles like "can I crap today or should I empty the tank?". I'd rather see people drive an H2 and for me that's saying a lot. I don't know the specifics, but I'd be willing to bet there are no supplemental driving classes for these things. If there are, the schools are way too lax with giving the go ahead to drive something that is the size of a semi and close to the same mass.

There are benefits to an RV, like only having to unpack once. I don't mind dealing with my own crap. (Just drive over a grated bridge. Dave Matthews Band does it!).

However, I agree that people driving those huge RVs need to have special licenses with shorter renewal periods. They're essentially busses, but you don't need a CDL to drive them.

It's less about "getting outdoors" and more about having a home with a change of scenery

\Would still rather have a VW camper van
\\Westfalia FTW!
 
2006-11-28 01:34:34 PM  
$350,000 is often a bargain for an RV. They can go for $900,000, easy.

/went to an RV show a while back
//even a farking trailer is $10,000 these days.
 
2006-11-28 01:41:30 PM  
California sucks. I left there 10 years ago and never looked back.



/Beautiful beaches and mountains
//Taxes and regulations sucked
///Can't stand Hollywood
////Running out of slashes
 
2006-11-28 03:20:29 PM  
annoyed_grunt

The issue is that every other state in the union manages to do the exact same things with less money, not the fact that taxes *exist* in the first place. Duh.


Last I heard, California had the 7th largest economy in the world (if it were treated as an independent country). Maybe the taxes have something to do with keeping the massive economy of such a huge, populous state working.

Oh, and those of you who'd like to see California driven out of the Union, you might what to check on the impact that would have on your own economies.
 
2006-11-28 04:18:06 PM  
lostcat

Two words: per capita.
 
2006-11-28 04:49:31 PM  
Every heard of the 90-Day Yacht Club. Same principle, just yachts and Mexico.

http://www.latsandatts.net/store/product.php?productid=16217
 
2006-11-28 05:23:31 PM  
lostcat: Oh, and those of you who'd like to see California driven out of the Union, you might what to check on the impact that would have on your own economies.

I'm trying to imagine the California economy without U.S. federal tax dollars. Imagine:

No highway funds ($3,000,000,000/year)
No federal educational dollars ($3,000,000,000/year)
No defense spending ($27,000,000,000/year)
No farm/dairy subsidies ($725,000,000/year)
No Medicare/Medicaid funding
No water from the states
No Border control (not that there's much now)

etc,etc....
 
2006-11-28 05:44:55 PM  
MikeMc

Yes, I'm sure that California is generating almost no tax revenue for the Federal Government.

You know, just Silicon Valley and Hollywood alone probably create more Federal Tax revenue (directly and indirectly) than two or three midwestern states combined.
 
2006-11-28 06:02:25 PM  
lostcat: You know, just Silicon Valley and Hollywood alone probably create more Federal Tax revenue (directly and indirectly) than two or three midwestern states combined.

It's possible, but not really relevant. California is currently a federal "donor" state (but it hasn't always beeen this way and I doubt California could replace all of the Federal infrastructure that is currently in place). The arguement was that Californis doesn't provide any services that other states don't also provide - for less money. Yes, it's a large state but so is Texas, so why are taxes so much higher that people will go to such elaborate lengths to avoid them? IIRC Texas doesn't even have a sales tax. So what is California spending so much much money on? Education? California ranked 47th out of the 50 states in the Smartest States rankings.
 
2006-11-28 06:53:30 PM  
crazyjae: You can own vehicles that are registered out of state as long as they are garaged in that state. Alternatively, if you live within 25 miles of the border, you can get a commuter permit for $25 at the Cal DMV. The permit allows you to use your vehicle on a daily basis in California without registering it in the state.


Let me get this straight, if I live in AZ and commute to CA for work, CA expects me to pay them $25?? And you think that is okay?

I live 1 mile from OR and go there a dozen times a week and they don't expect me to pay them.

CA is greedy
 
2006-11-28 08:14:26 PM  
Cali is not greedy, we're the most progressive state. We take all your money to make you poor then give it back to you in the form of social programs you wouldn't have needed if we hadn't taken it in the first place. House prices too high here? no problem, we'll pass a measure to provide housing "assistance" to "economically challenged" people. Remember, this is to help people, not to ensure that housing prices stay high. Actually a $350,000 RV is only half the price of a house anyway, it might not be a bad idea to just pay the 30 grand tax and live in it.
 
2006-11-28 09:21:33 PM  
Oregon has no sales taxes. Go to the malls and stores close to California, look at all the cars. Most are NOT from Oregon. Not worth the effort for just a candy bar or soda, but buy enough, save a lot.

a buddy of mine recently saved mega bucks by buying all high end kitchen appliances for his remodel and trailoring back to cali. f the man.

loved the no sales tax when i lived in salem.
 
2006-11-29 01:37:40 AM  
This article does nothing but confirm what Californians like myself already know; our own state is intent on screwing us out of as much of our income as they can get away with. Its completely sickening. Even for a $350,000 motorhome, $30,000 in fees is simply obscene. There is no reason that any tax should amount to more than 3 to 5% of the value of an item or of somebody's income. All levels of our government are grotesquely wasteful. Go Montana!!!.
 
2006-11-29 02:32:47 AM  
MikeMc

I'm trying to imagine the California economy without U.S. federal tax dollars. Imagine:

No highway funds ($3,000,000,000/year)
etc,etc....


i think you're missing the concept here.

it doesn't matter how much CA gets from the federal govt.

what matters is how much CA gets COMPARED TO HOW MUCH THEY PUT IN!

if they put in $20 BLN and get $15 BLN, they are givers not takers.

if i recall, CA, NY, and some other big states on the coast get less money than they put in to the federal govt., while many low-population states like NM and AK are huge winners in the game.
 
2006-11-29 09:46:26 PM  
Wert789: If you are a legal resident of California you have 3 weeks to re-register a vehicle bought out side the state or face a hefty fine in addition to 8.75% sales tax on the MSRP and registration fees the are the highest in the nation. Also if you vehicle dose not meet Cal smog standards (also the most strict in the nation), you will have to have it "corrected" before you can register it. Oh yeah, you'll have to get a smog certificate too.


Exactly why I would NEVER live on the left coast. CA has some of the most farked up stupid ass laws to ever exist.

Go take a look at some of their laws governing commercial vehichles.
 
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