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(AP)   Atheists beware. Megachurches are popping up all over the nation at an alarming rate   (hosted.ap.org) divider line 711
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13120 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Nov 2006 at 7:02 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-11-27 09:41:31 AM
21-7-b

people.umass.edu

Vaticowned!!?!1
 
2006-11-27 09:42:24 AM
Ouch, I totally buthered the spelling of "carat"
 
2006-11-27 09:42:59 AM
And I butchered the word "butchered"..
 
jre
2006-11-27 09:44:49 AM
And you butchered the usage of periods. :)
 
2006-11-27 09:45:35 AM
Wow, I sure am glad I moved out of Oklahoma and back to England. The megachurches were taking hold out there as I left, horrible warehouses calling themselves "cathedrals", of all things.

Here we mostly have all the churches we need and the cathedrals are architectural masterpieces. Google "Salisbury Cathedral" and take a look. Even as an atheist I find it spectacular.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing the old "we're better than you" thing, I know you guys have some amazing churches back east, and I really liked the old-school white-steeple type jobs you get down south, very picturesque, and it's a darn shame they're dying out.
 
2006-11-27 09:45:48 AM
Another thing for me to love about by home in NYC - there's not enough land available for these awful things.

And btw, I always thought "non-denominational" was code for "we don't like gay people and tend to vote Republican."
 
2006-11-27 09:47:16 AM
Timon of Athens: I've wanted to do that for ages. Set up my own hokie denomination, start selling Holy Electronics (tm) at high markup without all the taxes. Take a modest tithing off the top of revenue to support 'the church'. Profit.

i'm honestly surprised that no one else mentioned it in this thread.

however i do note that the way to end any argument on fark these days is simply to call the other person a troll and be done with it, and its really disturbing. you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. if your points can't stand on their own without having to call people trolls, then what good are they?

oh fark, you used to be so much cooler.
 
2006-11-27 09:48:19 AM
2006-11-27 09:12:39 AM jre


FarkLark
By the way, being in the majority on Fark is not the same as being right. Matter of fact, very seldom is it the same as being right.

I'm sorry, but previously I was led to believe by your statements that the majority is correct. Now I am being told it is not always correct. What determines when a majority is correct? I need some assistance, asap.



Absolutely. In the constitution a majority rules. In Fark, a basement dwelling majority gripes about how unfair the world is, and they under no circumstance or interpretation of the word rule.
 
2006-11-27 09:51:28 AM
"In the constitution a majority rules. "

Not quite. The majority rules except for in areas guarenteed by the bill of rights. The constitution is there to protect the minority, not the majority.
 
2006-11-27 09:51:29 AM
weezbo [TotalFark]
Just remember that "non-denominational" is megachurch code for hard core Evangelical.

I've noticed that and it weirds me out a bit. When I was a kid, "non-denominational" was code for "I'm basically an agnostic, but I'd really rather not talk about it."
 
2006-11-27 09:52:34 AM
FarkLark


I think they call this an attempt at Godwining a thread. Imagine a large buzzer, like at the end of a basketball game.


Actually, godwining a thread is an outright comparison to Hitler, as in "these churches resemble nazi rallies." The post you're referring to is not even close.

Another example: I don't like vegetarians. Hitler promoted vegeterianism as a healthier alternative diet (since he had problems digesting meat). Since Hitler liked it, it must be bad, and therefore, I am correct in my opposition to vegetarian diets.
 
2006-11-27 09:52:52 AM
BTW, FarkLark, you don't half go on mate! Seriously, if we're all basement-dwelling gripers, why do you bother?
 
2006-11-27 09:53:01 AM
Oh, those Chri$tians. here we go again. we know what's REALLY important, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$
 
2006-11-27 09:53:47 AM
FarkLark: In the constitution a majority rules.

Care to provide a quote? I'm pretty sure that "if enough people say so, then that's Jake by me" isn't in there. The Constitution was better thought-out than you give it credit for (or rather, than you try to twist it).

n Fark, a basement dwelling majority gripes about how unfair the world is

And here you are, telling us how unfair it is that someone doesn't like your religious beliefs.

Physician (or talking head, as the case may be) heal thyself.
 
2006-11-27 09:53:51 AM
2006-11-27 09:15:22 AM Drasancas

I have to admit I'm not sure exactly what we're debating at this point, so I'll try to clarify.

It sounded like, to me, that you were suggesting that just because currently a church can go into a place and essentially conquer the local citizens with their religious dogma, that it's perfectly alright for them to do.

And that's what I'm disagreeing about, based on the secular nature of the governmental structure of the U.S. towards keeping religion out of politics, since the two have never combined very well, historically speaking.


First of all, excellent post Sir. I am saying that in America we are constitutionally guaranteed the right to change the law via a majority. I am making no ascertation of right or wrong, only that is it proper. As you can see, stating the truth on Fark will get you into troubled waters.

I welcome trouble of this nature.
 
2006-11-27 09:54:02 AM
FarkLark: Absolutely. In the constitution a majority rules. In Fark, a basement dwelling majority gripes about how unfair the world is, and they under no circumstance or interpretation of the word rule.

i'm in no basement. i don't gripe about the world, i insult and spit at it. i have a regular job like almost everyone else in this crazy world, and your last sentence still doesn't make sense. i must have read it like 10 times... that last part... "and they under no circumstance or interpretation of the word rule."

thats going to haunt me as the broken english that couldn't. please, for the love of god, tell me this is your second or third language.
 
2006-11-27 09:56:42 AM
2006-11-27 09:21:39 AM allanhowls


FarkLark: Mega Churches are thriving because they are giving people what they want.

Everything you've described can be boiled down to a sense of "feeling" saved or "feeling" like they're part of a larger group. It's intellectually and spiritually void. I've been to too many of those places, and they are soulless pits that crank out platitude-spewing drones who wouldn't recognize Jesus' love in practice if He personally washed their yellow-ribbon-festooned SUV.


You should go to the Sunday School classes. Or as they are called in the megas, Life Groups. That is where the real preaching and teaching occurs. There is where you will find Jesus in those churches. Agree or disagree with the process, you have to agree they get the butts in the seats.
 
2006-11-27 09:56:59 AM
The church starts "with people's felt needs, and having them become aware of needs they don't realize they have," said Cosby

Like the need to be told what to do, the need to give us all your money, the need to be told who to vote for...
 
2006-11-27 09:57:07 AM
FarkLark: First of all, excellent post Sir. I am saying that in America we are constitutionally guaranteed the right to change the law via a majority. I am making no ascertation of right or wrong, only that is it proper. As you can see, stating the truth on Fark will get you into troubled waters.

I welcome trouble of this nature.


seriously, you're a total moran, but i do however defend that you are not, to wit, a troll.
 
2006-11-27 09:57:18 AM
Yellowbeard
I would say that the historical evidence for there being a human analog for the biblical figure called Jesus is pretty strong.

Okay, I'll bite, what's the historical evidence?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I haven't found any contemporary accounts of Jesus (not even the Bible counts since the earliest book was put to page about 60 years after his purported death).

The most I've been able to find is reports of the existence of Christians showing up in the records about a century or so afterwards.

This isn't to say that such a person might not have existed, but it also leaves open the possibility that the character of Jesus of a composite of multiple messianic figures (which Israel was rife with at the time).

If you know of some contemporary accounts, I'd be interested in learning about them.
 
2006-11-27 09:57:50 AM
I am going to ask my congressman to propose a constitutional amendment making atheism illegal. These people are going to ruin our country.
 
2006-11-27 09:58:36 AM
FarkLark

Absolutely. In the constitution a majority rules. In Fark, a basement dwelling majority gripes about how unfair the world is, and they under no circumstance or interpretation of the word rule.

Yes, except, the majority doesn't rule.
Depends on what you mean by 'rule', I guess.

IN the constitution they don't rule, as they are bound by the constitution, as several examples have already demonstrated.

They can override and alter the constitution, but if that happens too much, you're more likely to generate a revolution, in which case we start back at square-1: a bunch of people sitting around trying to craft together yet another attempt at a moral and just society.

..shortly before that wonderful majority ruining their work hundreds of years down the road.. again..

The major problem I have with the concept of "majority rules", is that it leads to mob mentality.

You earlier said my example of voting to put an innocent segment of the population to death with rediculous.

But isn't that essentially what happened in the Salem Witch Trials?

The majority got together and ruled that some individuals were witches and put them to death.

Anyway, I'll have to check back later
 
2006-11-27 09:58:40 AM
the wallmart-ization of religion, how funny
 
2006-11-27 09:59:07 AM
FarkLark
Absolutely. In the constitution a majority rules. In Fark, a basement dwelling majority gripes about how unfair the world is, and they under no circumstance or interpretation of the word rule.

Wow man, preaching the words of the Savior. How ever do you do it? Seriously, I want to model my life around your teachings of double standard, hypocrisy, and self righteousness.
 
2006-11-27 09:59:37 AM
2006-11-27 09:28:10 AM allanhowls


FarkLark: Look, this is America and the majority rules.

Wrong, but nice attempt to tyrannize the minority. The law rules. Just because a lot of people believe something stupid, that doesn't make it right. Your rather naive "might (and quantity) makes right" philosophy is precisely counter to what America stands for. Leave now, or wise up.

"If we get enough people in our church, the laws won't apply to us any more! We'll make new ones just for us!"


Sorry allan, you will need to reread something somewhere. If the majority can change the law, and the law rules....hmm, doesn't add up does it. The majority can change the law, therefore the majority is rock to laws scissors.

/who will post the best 'paper' comeback?
 
2006-11-27 10:00:04 AM
Uncle Pim
Another thing for me to love about by home in NYC - there's not enough land available for these awful things.

One of the things I love about my home in Lancaster, PA is that the Unitarian Universalist church is about as big as the Lutheran or Episcopal churches in town.

The suburbs around Lancaster are full of megachurches. There's also the "Sound & Light" theatre that shows Bible musicals. I can't imagine anything worse than a musical written by these Jesus Freaks. It's out by the outlets, so the folks who come out from New Jersey and Philadelphia to save $5 on a $500 leather jacket can take in a good bible story.

Thankfully, they stay out of my city and I stay out of their suburbs.

\Wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
 
2006-11-27 10:00:07 AM
mindbuzz

I am going to ask my congressman to propose a constitutional amendment making atheism illegal. These people are going to ruin our country.

Good luck with that.
 
2006-11-27 10:00:28 AM
FarkLark: That is where the real preaching and teaching occurs. There is where you will find Jesus in those churches.

I disagree. I've been there, and there's no Jesus there, either. There's man's interpretation of scripture, but very little that's doctrinally sound. Mostly, it sounds like a recap of Dobson's last radio show...bereft of honesty or practical application; just mouthable platitudes.

They get butts in the seats maybe, but was that Jesus' goal? Did he tell the theif on the cross that "this day, you shall sit next to me in the auditorium?" These churches are rotting more souls than video games, Janet Jackson's nipple, and Charles Darwin combined.
 
2006-11-27 10:00:30 AM
2006-11-27 09:31:08 AM allanhowls


FTW
 
2006-11-27 10:01:58 AM
...It really doesn't surprise me that so many farkers are vehement atheists, but it does surprise me how many of them lack any empathy to see why these mega churches are growing so rapidly.

Nice little circle jerk going on about how much you hate them, how they are hypocrites, how they are after your money, blah blah blah etc.

Do you fail to see why some people actually enjoy them? Do you fail to see that some of these people might actually be decent people?

Atheist, Religious, or whatever...Holy cow some of you people are narrow-minded. How is congregating in a forum by the thousands sharing one-sided ideas while rejecting any possibility of an askew opinion make you all any different than the very idea than you are attacking?
 
2006-11-27 10:02:36 AM
anrwlias look up Flavius Josephus. He's the only guy who ever provided a contemporary mention of Jeebus, basically that someone of that name was crucified at about the time they reckon he died. That's it, all there is. Sad really.
 
2006-11-27 10:03:43 AM
FarkLark: If the majority can change the law, and the law rules....hmm, doesn't add up does it.

Judicial branch..end of story.

We all think slavery should come back, and we want to house National Guard units in private residences!

Sorry, those are both unconstitutional, no matter how many people agree with the idea.

But...

Sorry, no.

Darn. (slinks back into cave)


Again...checks and balances. The majority can make suggestions and elect representatives, but they have to obey a set of strictures that is far more stringent than the mob rule you seem to be endorsing.
 
2006-11-27 10:03:47 AM
Drasancas

Good luck with that.

Thanks for wishing me luck and I hope that you and many other like minded Farkers will join in writing our congressmen and congresswomen. The majority rules and we should definitely not let the minority rule out our God given rights!
 
2006-11-27 10:03:56 AM
2006-11-27 09:52:52 AM AaaPha


BTW, FarkLark, you don't half go on mate! Seriously, if we're all basement-dwelling gripers, why do you bother?


For the same reason Elvis made music.
 
2006-11-27 10:05:27 AM
FarkLark:
For the same reason Elvis made music.

to get laid.
 
2006-11-27 10:05:57 AM
fb-

Is it just me, or are modern day, American, self-professed christians the least christ like people on the planet?


You have to really understand what it's all about. Religion is a very human creation. It's a means to an end, that end being wealth, power and control for whoever's pulling the strings of the religion in question. There's nothing divine or inspired about it. It's motivated by the most primitive urges of greed and selfishness. It prays on the ignorance and naivety of the masses to bilk them of their hard-earned dollars and Sunday mornings and afternoons. It provides direction to these masses of sheep, so that they may be herded wherever they can best serve those behind the scenes.

Mega-churches are just a synergy between two highly effective methods of making money: religion + the corporate form. Lookout! personal freedom, independent thought, and personal accountability are all going into the toilet!

Taking it a step further... why do I care? Well, in the long run, these religions if taken to the extremes they lead, will lead to prohibition, complete failure of state social institutions and welfare, war, plague, etc. They will be a regression to an earlier, more primitive and superstitious human past. A time we (supposedly) left behind.
 
2006-11-27 10:06:01 AM
FarkLark: You should go to the Sunday School classes. Or as they are called in the megas, Life Groups. That is where the real preaching and teaching occurs. There is where you will find Jesus in those churches. Agree or disagree with the process, you have to agree they get the butts in the seats.


Functionally no different than self help groups. People are fed a neat little nugget of philisophical wisdom wrapped up in doctrinal bull shiat so that they can feel better about themselves for the following week until next sunday.

meanwhile they continue to engage in things like smoking, drinking, adultery, greed, sloth, etc... and feel purged the minute they pay their tithe and engage in their life group.

Nothing makes me more wretched in my stomach than hypocrites, and mega churches are filled with the worst kind.
 
2006-11-27 10:06:14 AM
FarkLark
Sure, majority rule but it is charged with protecting the minority. A majority cannot whipe away the minority or anyone who disagrees with them. You should be thankful for that, the Democrats could be doing that to you right now, but they are choosing to follow the Constitution.
 
2006-11-27 10:06:23 AM
FarkLark: For the same reason Elvis made music.

because the world needed more shiatty music?
 
2006-11-27 10:06:25 AM
I_Like_Pie

Are you suggesting that Fark is a megaAnti-Church for atheists?
 
2006-11-27 10:06:53 AM
The commercialization of religion will lead to the end of faith in established churches.
 
2006-11-27 10:07:46 AM
Why should we Atheists worry? Its not like seeing or being near a church will suddenly cause one of us to burst into flames.

WTF? Does subby think that Atheists are farking vampires or something?

As an Atheist, I have no problems with religion in general. Its the door-to-door, ram-my-beliefs-down-your-throat douchebags that I have issue with.

If someone wants to build a place to worship their invisible sky genie, let 'em. As long as they're not using my tax dollars for it, I don't care.
 
2006-11-27 10:07:56 AM
FarkLark: same reason Elvis made music.


To take credit for black artistic innovation?
 
2006-11-27 10:07:58 AM
I think Christians should start worshipping that Jesus guy. He said some pretty cool stuff once.
 
2006-11-27 10:08:07 AM
FarkLark
For the same reason Elvis made music.

To make money? seriously? you get paid to post on fark?

/as an aside, I agree with the sentiment that, If the minister doesn't have a clue who you are, it ceases to be a church, and more a source of entertainment
 
2006-11-27 10:08:19 AM
FarkLark, Elvis sang wonderfully. You make kind of a shrill whining sound. Not the same.
 
2006-11-27 10:09:15 AM
mindbuzz:
Are you suggesting that Fark is a megaAnti-Church for atheists?

There are plenty of religious people on Fark:

Bevets and Tatsuma are two very popular ones.
 
2006-11-27 10:09:28 AM
2006-11-27 09:53:47 AM allanhowls


FarkLark: In the constitution a majority rules.

Care to provide a quote? I'm pretty sure that "if enough people say so, then that's Jake by me" isn't in there. The Constitution was better thought-out than you give it credit for (or rather, than you try to twist it).

n Fark, a basement dwelling majority gripes about how unfair the world is

And here you are, telling us how unfair it is that someone doesn't like your religious beliefs.

Physician (or talking head, as the case may be) heal thyself.


Love the heal thyself reference. I am telling you nothing. I am however stating my beliefs. You are welcome to disagree. Attack, and you will be attacked, provide intellectual intercourse and you will be engaged. Quote the sayings of SunTze and I will enlighten you.

On the constitution issue I feel you may be grasping straws or playing semantics. either way.... If you are saying we cannot ammend the constitution via a 2/3 majority then I will take issue with you. If you are saying just because the majority wants something it doesn't mean the majority gets it, then I am going to flame.
 
2006-11-27 10:09:43 AM
FarkLark
You obviously have never heard the terms "discrete and insular minorities." For reference, check out Carolene Products SCOTUS decision. Furthermore, be thankful the justices felt that way, because that protects your relgious freedom more than any other decision.
 
2006-11-27 10:10:06 AM
the_zodiac: As an Atheist, I have no problems with religion in general. Its the door-to-door, ram-my-beliefs-down-your-throat douchebags that I have issue with.

the real atheists call them jehovies and mormies.
 
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