elchip: And this, my friends, is an example of an analogy taken way too far.

Clever, chip. I LOL'd.

elchip: And this, my friends, is an example of an analogy taken way too far.

Not to mention a good reason for a diet.

BassPlayinManiac

bigwoody:
Do you realize how severely you contradict yourself?
My response will consist of quoting you:
Everyone knows more in circulation = worth less.

Yes but if you look at the American dollar already, it should have been raised years ago. With how poorly the american dollar is doing it will have no affect on it what so ever. But you keep believing the American dollar is doing well...

Again, a weak dollar doesn't mean nothing will happen. It just means you COMPOUND the problem (As I said, "I have the flu, so slice my torso with a katana!").

Your math is bad. You don't fix the problem by making it worse. To fix the dollar, you build the strength of the nation's economy as a whole, the exact god damn opposite of what raising the minimum wage does, the exact OPPOSITE of what raising taxes does.

/And the debt problem? Cut the farking spending.
//If a min wage hike solves everything, make the minimum wage $2,000 an hour, and we will all ride spaceships to Pleasure Planet.

Actually, raising the minimum wage has little effect on the entire macroeconomy. The real wage minimum wage is the lowest is has ever been since the 50's.

vladtheretailer: go fark yourselves.

\eat the rich

Yeah, that's great...except you're grinding those of us who aren't rich up along with them for your sausage.

Bump up minimum wage and costs and unemployment will (probably) increase. The question is, by how much? The net effect is diminishing the value of everyone else's wages by a small amount.

However: We're talking a significant quality-of-life increase for the people who are on minimum wage and a tiny absolutely insignificant decrease in quality-of-life of everyone above. Someone who desperately need it get a big hand versus people who don't really need it losing the ability to buy quite as many cheap trinkets that year... seems fair to me.

People like to trot out the "inflation... oh noes!!" lines, the "why not make it $100" strawman, and the "we'll have to lay off dozens of workers" claptrap. Let's be serious, okay? If the whole economy was based on a majority of struggling businesses paying all of their workers minimum wage you'd have a point. But look around... the minimum wagers you see... are they working for small struggling businesses or massive multinationals? Do you really think that 'burgers will scream up in cost because the cost to make and serve them has gone up a few cents? It's not like each burger is lovingly crafted over the course of an hour by a team of minimum-wage specialists. It's not like the businesses don't have executive fat to trim that would be more beneficially spent on the people doing the gruntwork.

Also, on the unemployment front: Increase the base minimum wage and you have more incentive for people to get off of unemployment benefits. So unemployment might not increase at all.

I say go for it, within reason of course.

Sloth_DC: Not only are teen pregnancies lower today than they have been in a long time, but it's also one of the longest spans without a rise in teen pregnancy.

Try as he might, Sen. Kennedy can only ever have at most, a marginal impact on teen pregnancies.

minimum wage: if we could pay you less, we would.

i was in dayton ohio this weekend. i went to burger king, where assumably everyone there made min wage. there wasnt an employee in there who wasn't under 35 (or under 300lbs). i knew i was in the midwest, coz all the fast food employees were whites, whereas they're all latinos in CA.

but anyway.

i bet these folks who live in these rotten urban midwestern cities which have lost their nice cushy union manufacturing jobs and are now working at fast food joints to supplement their pensions are going to be happy about this.

*shrug*

yes, this will hurt small businesses. Yes, it will constrict the labor market for low paying jobs, but we've got great employment right now and can handle it.

in short, i think this is probably a good thing. while a good chunk of min wage earners are kids, there are a lot of people who are obliged to live off it. these folks deserve a break now and again, too.

JT_Dutch: ... All raising the minimum wage is going to mean is that there will be more High Schoolers with bumping sound systems and blinged-out rims on the cars their Mom bought for them.

Great...just what I wanted to look forward to...

andrew131

Actually, raising the minimum wage has little effect on the entire macroeconomy. The real wage minimum wage is the lowest is has ever been since the 50's.

$2000 an hour?

ANy negative effect $2000 an hour min wage will create will manifest itself in a smaller form with any min wage hike.

Holy shiat! We're going to sink into a Recession, the GOP said so!

Minimum wage is to Republicans what Global Warming is to Democrats.

Hang On Voltaire: 479,000 were reported as earning exactly $5.15, the prevailing Federal minimum wage. Another 1.4 million were reported as earning wages below the minimum. Together, these 1.9 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.5 percent of all hourly-paid workers.

Don't conflate those two figures - it's dishonest. The people making _below_ minimum wage are primarily A) Tip-based employees and B) Kids working for the family business. Neither has a legitimate place in the discussion - the figure on the table is simply the 479,000 making minimum wage, which is about .5% of the workforce. The majority of this category are under 20 working for mom-and-pop stores.

IXI Jim IXI: Yeah, that's great...except you're grinding those of us who aren't rich up along with them for your sausage.

Are there no prisons? No workhouses? If they're going to die, let them do so and decrease the surplus population.

JT_Dutch: That'll really do wonders for the Nation as a whole. Great jorb!

More money in people's pockets, the more they buy. Which means more money in the pockets of the people who make stuff, whch means they buy more stuff. Really, that's the whole point. That's how you grow your economy, get people to buy stuff.

Finnley Wren: Are there no prisons? No workhouses? If they're going to die, let them do so and decrease the surplus population.


Ok, now you're just being a drama queen :D

As long as people are here illegally and will work for
a sub minimum wage, the minimum wage is a mute point.
--haxtor,

haxtor

"In news today, Bush signs in the new minimum wage hike, and shouts of 'OLE!' were heard in California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas."

Finnley Wren
I have about 30 research papers all from prominent economists that argue an increase does not affect 2.5% for every 5% increase.

Sorry, you lose.

elchip: And this, my friends, is an example of an analogy taken way too far.

And THAT is why I have you marked in bright orange with Farky.

Captain Obvious
Do you have any idea how many times a minimum wage raise has been shot down? It doesn't seem to affect the polls.


What does this have to do with anything I just said?

This is what we get for electing people for change. I guess we wanted change from low unemployment, record stock market, booming economy, lack of terrorist attacks on US soil, etc.

While we're at it, currently genocide is illegal. So is rape, lynchings, etc. Let's change that too. Why not? We voted for change.

2006-11-16 05:33:09 PM bigwoody

//If a min wage hike solves everything, make the minimum wage $2,000 an hour, and we will all ride spaceships to Pleasure Planet.

If eating a hamburger for dinner is good, then eating a thousand hamburgers in a sitting must be better.

If drinking a glass of wine at dinner is healthy, then drinking 73 glasses of wine at dinner must be healthier.

If buying a Playstation game is good and fun, then selling all you own to buy every Playstation game ever invented must be the right thing to do.

//Too easy

I love people who talk about the illegals becoming more attractive due to an increase in minimum wage. The U.S. government better think the illegal problem through for a good, looooooong time. Because if you think Mexicans working illegally presented a problem, wait until your average citizen decides to get in on the game.

Can't be done, you say? Too much visibility? Well, there's a market to help you with that, too. It's getting bigger by the day.

End poverty now! $40 Minimum wage!

andrew131: I have about 30 research papers all from prominent economists that argue an increase does not affect 2.5% for every 5% increase.

Sorry, you lose.

Take it up with this guy. Ain't my figure.

elchip

I would gladly scoop some of your ice cream.


/just trying take the analogy a little bit further

Smeggy Smurf: This is what we get for electing people for change.

This is the kind of change that people want (whether or not they are properly informed is up o debate). In Missouri, 75% of people voted for an increase in the minimum wage this election.

More money in people's pockets, the more they buy. Which means more money in the pockets of the people who make stuff, whch means they buy more stuff. Really, that's the whole point. That's how you grow your economy, get people to buy stuff.

The money is just being shifted around.

You raise the minimum wage. More money to the workers. Companies have to maintain their profit margins to keep their stock value, so they in turn raise prices. Stuff is more expensive. Inflation and cost of living increases.

Just simple economics here.

2006-11-16 05:34:36 PM Bete Noire

However: We're talking a significant quality-of-life increase for the people who are on minimum wage and a tiny absolutely insignificant decrease in quality-of-life of everyone above. Someone who desperately need it get a big hand versus people who don't really need it losing the ability to buy quite as many cheap trinkets that year... seems fair to me.

Holy crap. There is intelligent life here!

Bravo, sir.

not to pick any sides here but the Dems don't exactly hold a huge number of seats in either house to do everything they want to do, expect partisan pissing matches galore

gorgor
BassPlayinManiac
Damb dude, guess /meh wasn't enough for you.
Try not to use the sand coated firecrackers in your vagina next time ya douchebag.

/meh, doesn't mean anything to me... Sorry I get heated over minimum wage debates...

/I do apologize, please accept this picture of a half naked woman as a gift for my aggressiveness.

WhyteRaven74:The point of mininum wage law as it was created was to make sure no one who worked 40 hours a week ended up still poor. And it worked that way for a couple decades.


I'm very clear on what the point was, and it wasn't to create an entire class of people who work their entire career for minimum wage.

elchip: In Missouri, 75% of people voted for an increase in the minimum wage this election.

These the same folks who voted in the dead guy last time around?

/I KEED!

Smeggy Smurf

I bet you're one of the Republicans that gloated about your thumping during the mid-term elections.

dillhole
However, if you raise the minimum wage, there will be some businesses who are willing to pay illegals to do the work cheaper.

I agree. But I reiterate that this is not reflective of a problem with the minimum wage, it's a problem of immigration law enforcement.

Unless we eliminate any and all regulation on the labor market, there will always be people seeking to skirt that regulation by hiring those who cannot legally enforce their rights.

If I'm going to skirt OSHA requirements and ignore all workplace safety regulations, guess who I'm going to hire? Does that mean that we should eliminate safety regulations or that there is a problem with encouraging safety in the workplace? Of course not.

I like a minimum *and* a maximum wage. Rule of 40 for example: You may not make more in wage than 40x the amount, in all/total compensation, of your lowest paid employee in *any* country. Suddenly the giant sucking sound pauses to take a breath...

Of course, tying min. wage to congressional wage increases would be a *far* better solution. Just like forcing them to use medicare/medicaid/social security instead of gold cross/golden parachute. Instant national healthcare/soc. sec. funding fix suddenly appears!

Ohhhh yeah! Go dems! That'll show 'em!! Up the minimum wage HA HA HA! Take THIS, Bush! Take THIS small business owner! Oh wait...

Sunny Ray: I would gladly scoop some of your ice cream.

My bowls of ice cream have four and a half scoops.

Of course, the government always eats about 1.13 of those scoops.

bigwoody
You're stupid. I said REAL minimum wage. Not, nominal.

Think.

elchip: In Missouri, 75% of people voted for an increase in the minimum wage this election.

Good - let them raise the minimum wage in Missouri. Last I checked, it was not amongst the enumerated powers for the federal govt.

The problem with counting minimum wage workers (or % of workers making minimum wage), is how do you count them? How do you tell who is considered a minimum wage worker? Do you only count people making the $5.15, and leave out people making $5.16, or even $5.25?

Living wage seems to be the best way to measure income.

Please stop biatching about making minimum wage $20 an hour. That argument is stupid. Anyone with an education would know that would increase inflation/unemployment drastically (uncontrollable), and all manufacturing would be outside of USA.

/I've read about a 150 articles from ABI/Inform Global database about minimum wage for a business research paper. Argh. It's always fun when they put in complex economic formulas to prove their thesis.

Sloth_DC: Good - let them raise the minimum wage in Missouri. Last I checked, it was not amongst the enumerated powers for the federal govt.

Like most people have any idea.

White Raven:

Yes yes, the dirty float as it were. I'm actually happy to see the dollar drop. It's amazing what a strong centralized government can do in regards to economic growth. I think South Korea after the Korean war is the best example - protectionist measures, specialization, tarrifs, all that good stuff. In theory I gush over laissez-faire (sic - probably) but in practice I know it's not that simple. Then again, strong centralized governments tend to do evil things too...

Nope Sunny Ray, I was pissed. Pissed that the people we elected last time turned into worthless pieces of shiat RINOs. We'll do better next time.

Hey, this will be great for all the millions of illegal aliens that are probably going to get their free amnesty.

1. Raise minimum wage aboilsh poverty : Check
2. Raise taxes to balance classes :
3. Free health care :
4. End slaver...


#2 can't come fast enough.