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(NewsMax)   Student leaders at a California college have banned the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government   (newsmax.com) divider line 642
    More: Interesting  
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7160 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Nov 2006 at 8:00 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-11-10 08:31:20 AM
Tatsuma: Yeah, and they owned slaves, too.

Dude, you're the uber Jew. Do you really want to get into how people sucked because they owned slaves? As I recall, the early Hebrews and God built it right into the religion.
 
2006-11-10 08:31:58 AM
pagead2.googlesyndication.com

GAAHHHH!
 
2006-11-10 08:32:34 AM
Drasancas: We should then ban . . .

Our societies laws reflect the judgement that all of the things that you suggest above are not immoral.

And I'm NOT gonna argue the merits or lack thereof of jaywalking laws.
 
2006-11-10 08:32:34 AM
I move that we take a vote to ban federal funding for the school that these asswipes attend.

Don't like the country?

That's fine, but don't expect the goodies.
 
2006-11-10 08:32:42 AM
2006-11-10 08:29:45 AM Finnley Wren

No, it is good to protect people from themselves in a society that values human life

platypusjones: next you'll be telling me its immoral to eat a cheeseburger or drink to excess later.

Neither of those are illegal or immoral, ppj.


You confuse me, FW.
 
2006-11-10 08:32:44 AM
Finnley Wren: Neither of those are illegal or immoral, ppj.

Actually, it could easily be made immoral to eat meat when it comes out of "cow factories" or the effects of drinking too much on people around you

That's why making laws on morality is dangerous. Imagine the congress was filled with vegans and they made laws based on their morality.
 
2006-11-10 08:33:14 AM
Tatsuma
It means they can't say it.

I repeat: I go to lots of meetings, not one of those meetings starts with the pledge of alleigance. Is the pledge "banned" there, too? If I started a club and said, we're not going to start the meetings of this club with the pledge, am I "banning the pledge" at my new club?
 
2006-11-10 08:33:51 AM
The fact that the students wore wearing revolutionary-style berets during their campaign makes them legitimate and I admire them for the stance they took. Prayer and oaths by rote probably have no meaning for most people, until somebody wants to take them away. It is these types of courageous acts that make people stop and think about what it is we believe in and how much we will give up to protect it. These students are heroes.
 
2006-11-10 08:33:59 AM
From TFA:

"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Bell, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."

1) Why doesn't he just say he is a Communist? Atheism + Socialism is what made Communism.

2) If you are an atheist and a socalist in this country, you might as well tattoo "Loser" across your forehead.
 
2006-11-10 08:34:38 AM
Tatsuma: Actually, it could easily be made immoral to eat meat when it comes out of "cow factories" or the effects of drinking too much on people around you

Anything taken to it's extreme can become immoral, there is no arguing that.
 
2006-11-10 08:35:08 AM
Finnley Wren: And I'm NOT gonna argue the merits or lack thereof of jaywalking laws.

Of course not. We wouldn't expect you to actually defend your statements.
 
2006-11-10 08:35:19 AM
Tatsuma

Just don't make it official and don't ban it either. Not everyone has the same beliefs and conforms to your ideas, wankers.

I enjoy your views on this subject and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2006-11-10 08:35:33 AM
equilibrium: Dude, you're the uber Jew. Do you really want to get into how people sucked because they owned slaves? As I recall, the early Hebrews and God built it right into the religion.

Absolutely, I'd love to, that way I will be able to dispel the myth that Jewish "slavery" had anything to do with the American or christian one.

However, this is not the right thread for this
 
2006-11-10 08:35:59 AM
Stupidest flamebait ever.

I love the "if you don't like it you can leave," bit though. Always good rhetoric.

Appearently tomstdenis gives good head too
 
2006-11-10 08:36:18 AM
Drasancas

... if they're perfectly aware of the risks ...

Cute.

Because the average person really looks at the nutritional information of what they eat ... yeah right. People are no more informed about most anything, than your cat can perform calculus.

While I don't think we should outright ban bad food (cuz trust me, I lived on couscous for the last two weeks and it sucks) but we really ought to drive home the value of the food. There should be a standard list of important info, e.g. serving size, calories, fat, cholesterol, sodium, etc and all menus/etc should have it listed e.g.

Small fries: [45g, 300cal, 3g fat, 30mg choles., 500mg sodium, ...]

That way you can readily see the nutritional value of shiat.

Instead of

"Happy Meal $3.95"

It would say

"Happy Meal [really bad for you] $3.95"

It would help if companies didn't go out of their way to make shiat bad for you (in the attempt to make it addictive and/or tasty...).
 
2006-11-10 08:36:20 AM
platypusjones: You confuse me, FW.

Likewise, ppj. Re-read what I've posted and I'll be happy to answer any questions.
 
2006-11-10 08:36:45 AM
The Pledge of Allegiance is a bullshiat add-on dreamed up by a socialist in the 19th Century and has no legal or official or Constitutional basis.

Nothing in the Constitution requires citizens to swear an oath of loyalty to the government. In fact, the Founders urged people to be suspicious of the government and reserved the right to get rid of the government at any time. The "government" is nothing but an organization created by the people under strict Constitutional limitations to regulate public affairs on their behalf.

The Constitution does not grant citizens their rights, because rights are inherent. The Constitution limits the powers of government.

When one takes public office or joins the military, they do not swear an oath of loyalty to the government, they swear to protect and uphold the Constitution, which protects citizens against excessive government power.


It is astounding how many people simply don't understand the concept. Those who pledge their allegiance to a flag and a government rather than vowing to protect the Constitution are undermining the Constitution, and are therefore traitors to their country. Morons.
 
2006-11-10 08:37:01 AM
there's certainly no reason to swear allegiance to God.

As a citizen of a country though, you should pledge allegiance to the government.
 
2006-11-10 08:37:31 AM
MWeather: Of course not. We wouldn't expect you to actually defend your statements.

It's what I've been doing, Mw. Any questions?
 
2006-11-10 08:37:40 AM
Richard Stands is going to go America ALL over their asses.
 
2006-11-10 08:37:50 AM
Franky17: I repeat: I go to lots of meetings, not one of those meetings starts with the pledge of alleigance. Is the pledge "banned" there, too? If I started a club and said, we're not going to start the meetings of this club with the pledge, am I "banning the pledge" at my new club?

Did you read the whole part where I said "Don't ban it, don't enforce it, if people want to say it they will, if they don't, they won't, and everything will be all right?"

waxingpolemic: I enjoy your views on this subject and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

cheers

Finnley Wren: Anything taken to it's extreme can become immoral, there is no arguing that.

Then I don't understand your previous statement
 
2006-11-10 08:38:43 AM
The Billdozer

1) Why doesn't he just say he is a Communist? Atheism + Socialism is what made Communism

Communism deals with the distribution of property rights and money.

It's perfectly valid to have a democratic republic communistic state of christians.

None of those terms are mutually exclusive.

Of course, if you want to go into the Stalin or Marxist variations of the general idea of communism, then you're arguing something else.
 
2006-11-10 08:38:44 AM
2006-11-10 08:06:32 AM ShotgunLobotomy

There sure are alot of traitorous redneck, fascist douchebags in california. I was shocked when i didnt find the word "bakersfield" in there, the spawning place for the worst kind of hillbilly filth.I wish they'd finally go ahead and cut california from the mainland so it can drift out to sea, so they can all go about sodomizing each other and doing meth and burning the Constitution and we dont have to hear about it.

fixed it for you.
 
2006-11-10 08:38:59 AM
I banned the pledge of allegiance in my bathroom. I don't feel the irrational love of nation should occur while I'm pooping.
 
2006-11-10 08:39:20 AM
RoninKengo: As a citizen of a country though, you should pledge allegiance to the government.

I prefer to pledge allegiance to the country itself.
 
2006-11-10 08:39:32 AM
Finnley Wren: It's what I've been doing, Mw. Any questions?

OK, what are the merits or lack thereof of jaywalking laws?
 
2006-11-10 08:40:12 AM
Tatsuma: Then I don't understand your previous statement

Which one? All that I have suggested is that interpreted morality - call it "natural law" if ya like - is the very basis of our laws.

Didn't think it a very outrageous statement at the time, but then again, this is Fark.
 
2006-11-10 08:41:31 AM
Tatsuma
Did you read the whole part where I said "Don't ban it, don't enforce it, if people want to say it they will, if they don't, they won't, and everything will be all right?"

I don't understand what you are saying. You are repeating the claim that the pledge is "banned", and you haven't answered my question: If I started a club and said, "we're not going to start the meetings of this club with the pledge", am I "banning the pledge" at my new club? Should NewsMax write a story about me, too?

Because although the article uses the word "ban" or "banned" seven times there is no evidence in the article that the students did anything other than say "we're not going to start meetings of this club with the pledge of alleigance".
 
2006-11-10 08:41:37 AM
Tatsuma
RoninKengo: As a citizen of a country though, you should pledge allegiance to the government.

I prefer to pledge allegiance to the country itself.


I think it's safer to go ahead and pledge allegiance to the flag.
Until the flags become sentient and start ordering us around, we're good.
 
2006-11-10 08:42:03 AM
MWeather: OK, what are the merits or lack thereof of jaywalking laws?

Made me laugh out loud, MWeather. Thanks.

I'm gonna say . . . to help ensure that people don't get killed. Same reason we enforce speed limits.
 
2006-11-10 08:43:09 AM
I will concede that having God in the pledge is stupid. Part of what makes this country great is that religion is totally up to you.

The rest of it? Fark you asshats, this country rocks.

Oh yeah, and you people hating on socialists...a socialist wrote the pledge.
 
2006-11-10 08:43:27 AM
Right, so a student group have decided they won't be saying the pledge in their meetings any more because it's unnecessary.

What's the farking problem with that?

This pledge nonsense is a major part of what the rest of the world finds weird about the US. You're nationalistic, militaristic and religious. You indoctrinate your children with the repeated assertion that not only is the US the best place on the planet but that it can do no wrong and was ordained by god.

It's parochial. It's weird. Please stop. I'm pretty sure it's ohne of the (self perpetuating) reasons you have so many crazies over there.
 
2006-11-10 08:43:49 AM
Where wolf: Sorry, but I'm from a military family. I've had friends and family die defending those words.

They went to war to defend words? That's a pretty stupid reason to go to war.
 
2006-11-10 08:44:08 AM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2006-11-10 08:44:08 AM
Close your eyes!!!
Plug your ears!!!

Everything this country did prior to right now was wrong!!!

What would America do without superior Baby Boomers and their precious progressive thought?
 
2006-11-10 08:44:40 AM
The question was posed: "what do some foreigners think about the pledge?" As an Australian currently living in the US and who has married an American I feel somewhat qualified to answer this question.

I almost fell off my chair. The dialog went something like this:

-You mean you recite that thing every day before class?
-Yes, every day.
-Do you have to?
-No, but if you don't you will get made fun of. So everyone does.

I think I then went on to talk about the "4 legs good, 2 legs bad," sorry "4 legs good, 2 legs better," bit from Animal farm.

This was early in my experiences of the US. So I wasn't use to how Americans display their patriotism. Since then I've gotten used to the idea. It's like the flags everywhere, the stickers on cars, helmets, buses, windows. The people wearing flag shorts, flag underwear, eating off flag plates. The singing of the national anthem before every sporting event, the military coming out and presenting the flags before every said sporting event, the parades.

This is just how people here express that they are patriotic. In Australia this would all be seen as silly, and inane, but here it's normal. You only have to look at what happened when that guy tried to start an Aussie pledge. It's a different culture. I'm sure a lot of Australian things look stupid in the same sense. I know I've been called over critical of stuff. Same deal. I'm Australian it's common to biatch endlessly about how stupid shiat is without doing anything. Not so much here. They expect you to put up or shut up.

It's just part of different cultures. If you don't like shiat like this then don't leave your home country. If you're cool that people do shiat differently then travel and get around. And don't be a farking tourist, live in a place don't just visit. People who "tourist" around the place usually just come out with the same damn preconceived notions they started with. You have to live somewhere to really get what makes them tick.

But still, I'll never like the toilets here. 6 inches too farking low and a damn lake down there.
 
2006-11-10 08:45:34 AM
Finnley Wren

I'm gonna say . . . to help ensure that people don't get killed. Same reason we enforce speed limits.

What if it's necesary to speed to save someone's life, across town, or whatever obscure reason?

It's still ludicrous to assert that j-walking is immoral, and god will send you to hell for it.
 
2006-11-10 08:45:39 AM
Finnley Wren: I'm gonna say . . . to help ensure that people don't get killed.

But it's illegal to jaywalk across an empty street as well.
 
2006-11-10 08:45:43 AM
Wow. Talk about hyperbole.

From my reading, one group on campus is no longer going to open their own meetings with the pledge.

Everyone freaks out.

I think they are in accord with Tatsuma's suggested "Don't want to say it? Don't say it! It's no skin off of anyone's nose."

What is the problem?

"One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings."

Sounds like 3:1 against saying the pledge at the beginning of the meeting. Maybe the one person who wants to say it could mumble it soflty while the minutes are being read?

Or start a witch hunt.
 
2006-11-10 08:46:18 AM
Not that you were asserting that exactly.
 
2006-11-10 08:46:19 AM
www.rumormillnews.com

The author of it also said that the purpose of the pledge was to teach obedience to the state as a virtue. Pass.
 
2006-11-10 08:47:10 AM
Tatsuma: In a secular state, gays should have equal rights.

I'll say it.

I agree with tatsuma
 
2006-11-10 08:47:22 AM
I agree with them. Pledges are stupid, especially college ones.
 
2006-11-10 08:47:30 AM
As an Atheist, I could care less if I repeated "under God" or not during any reciting of the Pledge. I think they maybe were getting sick of the inane and mindless repetition of the Pledge like we all had in grade school where we thought and put no meaning into what we were required to recite.
 
2006-11-10 08:48:22 AM
I dont see any reason to, either.
 
2006-11-10 08:48:36 AM
Walker The author of it also said that the purpose of the pledge was to teach obedience to the state as a virtue.

And if that doesn't scare you then...

I think it's part of the major reason bush got (re) elected. He spews all the right "USA! USA!" baloney. Regardless of actual record, he says america is the best place on the planet and that's all the brainwashed masses need to hear to know that anyone opposing him is anti-american.
 
2006-11-10 08:49:06 AM
I believe the whiny "patriot" is the real asshat in this story. Can't she pray or pledge on her own damn time?
 
2006-11-10 08:49:10 AM
MWeather: But it's illegal to jaywalk across an empty street as well.

It's just easier to enforce it across the board, I suppose.

An "empty street" is too open to interpretation or abuse by a nabbed jaywalker, particularly a busy city street.
 
2006-11-10 08:49:14 AM
Tatsuma: I suggest a cup of coffee or four, mate

I suggest reading multiple news sources on a story to clarify details.
 
2006-11-10 08:49:15 AM
2006-11-10 08:36:20 AM Finnley Wren

platypusjones: You confuse me, FW.

Likewise, ppj. Re-read what I've posted and I'll be happy to answer any questions.


i've read your posts, so it's not really a matter of comprehension. following your train of thought, you initially replied to the statment "it's pure evil to j-walk", you said "no, it is good to protect people from themselves..." and so on. you made a move to morality with your latter claim(you simply did not state "it's llegal to jaywalk). yet you seem to reject one aspect of morality (no, it's not evil)but then endorse another "it's good to protect people from themselves." therein is my issue- because implicit in your statement is that while it's not evil to jaywalk, it's evil (or at least bad) to NOT protect people from themselves which opens up into other areas of conduct and behavior, like eating a cheeseburger or drinking to excess. dunno, maybe just a bad choice of words on your part.
 
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