This is all very Antigone.

But The Associated Press has combed through the results of 2 1/4 years of investigations - reviewed thousands of pages of internal Army documents, interviewed dozens of people familiar with the case - and uncovered some startling findings

Yeah, remember that war we won? WW2? The "good war"? This shiat happened all the time then, never got reported. I like to think that we have socially evolved to the point where we can read this NY post article and say "That's the reality of war." Unlike our innocent grandparents from the 50's and 60's who, after being hoodwinked into supporting the ww2 effort, saw what war was really like in Vietnam and decided that was a "bad war" we needed to get out of.

He was hunky, open-minded, thoughtful (in the sense that he thought abt things). The younger brother's "eulogy" is what I want read at my funeral (although my will says I won't have one).

Come on, you're getting fired at by your fellow officers and you say "I'm Fie (effing) McFie!" That is not egotism. It's communication. It means, you guys know me, I'm one of ours.

Did he really get three bullets in the head, or did I misread? Quite the accomplishment by his visually-challenged "mates."

Obvious. I wouldn't rule out his death being designed to revive the patriotism like the whole Jessica Lynch charade. Also, killing a hero would get the American public angry and more supportive of the war effort.

Well I thought about the army, Dad said, son you must be high And I thought, yeah there's a first for everything so i took my old man's advice...

reminds me of ;

"Good shot! OK, he's dead; let's go get 'im. That's another one for the fire"

seventypercent - good one. You sure had me going.
Anyway, I'm not sure if this woman is an atheist,
or for that matter if she has ever heard of Tillman.
But it would be a shame to exclude her for either reason.

serutan: Anyway, I'm not sure if this woman is an atheist

Adriana Lima is a goddess.

The reason we're talking about this is only indirectly because Tillman was famous. The friendly-fire incident, in and of itself, isn't the issue. It's that the government covered it up because they wanted to exploit Tillman's death to make him a martyr for the cause, and revealing that it was an accident by his own comrades wouldn't do that. So they covered up the facts.

The issue is the cover-up. Which happened because he's famous. But it's more important than a famous person dying.

Tack: ESPN reported this a couple of months back.

I came in here to say that.

/thanks for everything, Pat and Kevin.

Calcasieu It's an AP article, not from the NYP.
rackrent I've never understood all the Pat Tillman fascination, especially after he later criticized the war he was in as was most of his family. What are you trying to say? Was most of his family in the war? I can't understand your comment. Please post in your native language and I might have a chance.

I haven't heard about this but GIS erveals one thing - that is one goddmaned square jaw.

Gwendolyn

Damn that's a sad damn state of affairs when are troops are so underfed they have to buy a god damn goat from a local village and eat it.

WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON OVER THERE????


My dad ate rats during WW2 in the Pacific theater.
It was an enconomic decision on the part of roosevelt, btw.It cost money to ship food so limit the calorie intake of your soldiers.

Economic factors always play a part in peace and in war, yes, even the great patriotic war of all wars, WW2.

I'm thankful my dad wasn't one of the 400,000 men that roosevelt got killed by his lack of interest in preventing the maniacs that took power and caused the deaths of 40 million people.

Sending a letter to hitler telling him not to invade anymore countries and listing the countries he is not to invade and boycotting scrap metal sales to Japan doesn't cut it.

Btw, our soldiers today have enough to eat (unlike my father) but it's all MRE's which get a little tiresome. And who would have thunk of buying a goat from the locals? I guess you wouldn't have.

In the absence of "friendly identifying signals," he assumed Tillman and an allied Afghan who also was killed were enemy.

Do innocent civilians have "friendly identifying signals"?

zefal - My dad ate rats during WW2 in the Pacific theater.


I saw Pretty in Pink in the Pacific Theater. That floor was filthy. I can understand how they had a rat problem.

Rackrent Sorry. Sarcasm-o-meter was off, it seems.

zefal

Dude, Roosevelt wanted to be involved. There used to be a little problem with that though, it was called congress. I know, you didn't go to college, but presidents didn't used to have the power that they do now.

/Although we can all thank Roosevelt for helping us down that path...

It was his own fault...for looking like Osama Bin Laden. (If Osama has a 20 inch neck.

Friendly fire is anything but friendly.

seventypercent: rackrent: I've never understood all the Pat Tillman fascination, especially after he later criticized the war he was in as was most of his family.

It should also be pointed out that Tillman was in fact an Atheist, a fact that gives those of us in the moral community a good deal of pause as we consider how much reverence we should actually give this man.

"moral community"

Wait, what?

Howie_Feltersnatch: Obvious. I wouldn't rule out his death being designed to revive the patriotism like the whole Jessica Lynch charade. Also, killing a hero would get the American public angry and more supportive of the war effort.

Is this going to be the left's "Vince Foster"?

"The terrorists are who we thought they were!"

/obscure?

phoenixfire

Nice Denny Green reference!

***...a death caused by three closely placed bullets to the head.

If this is accurate, it would appear that one weapon/individual was responsible for causing this fatal wound. The standard issue M16A3 has a 3-round burst capability; in the fog of war, three separate individuals hitting a target as small as a human forehead at the same time is a bit of a stretch. Just sayin'...

Btw, our soldiers today have enough to eat (unlike my father) but it's all MRE's which get a little tiresome. And who would have thunk of buying a goat from the locals? I guess you wouldn't have.

Most soldiers don't eat MREs on a daily basis (the special forces and rangers who are out on long missions without returning to base are an exception. Most soldiers get to eat at KBR mess tents. Now when I was there I did not like KBR but then I was sent to Egypt a few months after I got back and compared to the Egyptian food KBR was great.
/This statement is not an endorsement of George Bush or his administration. Thank you.

/more like 10 more years

seventypercent

us in the moral community

WTF? Define this statement please.

One Love

I know, you didn't go to college, but presidents didn't used to have the power that they do now.

So I'm guessing you went to community college, based on that historically ignorant statement.

2006-11-09 04:13:58 AM zefal



You really don't have a clue as to the prevailing social and economic conditions at the time, do you? Ever heard of the Depression? Did you know that we did not have a standing military as we know it?

So he expected special treatment just because he was famous? What is it with celebrities and their egos?

Thanks, NewHere. That made me lol.

Attention please:

The following exclamations are of very dubious effect against 19-year olds armed with automatic weapons who are stationed in a strange land and who are shot at every day:

1. "I am a friendly."
2. "I am unarmed."
3. "I am a civilian."

If you happen to be standing next to an indigenous person who is holding or firing an AK-47, any statements you make will probably be disregarded and you may get popped. That is all.

rackrent: There's no denying that, but he personally felt he didn't die saving his country. Neither does his family.

That's an... um... "interesting" statement.

I don't want to start a flame war but has anybody considered the fact that maybe he was a flaming asshole and got his ass frag'd? Personally I have never been in a war but my father served in the Korean War and 2 tours of duty in Vietnam. He said that sometimes that happens. Guy's will give out some payback when the shooting starts.

I mean all we really know of the guy is some articles stating what a great person he was. And we all know

I ain't saying thats what happened but it sure is starting to sound that way.

Anyways bottom line is I couldn't give a shiat less. What made him anymore special than the other 2500+ people that have died in this farked up war? Others in this war have also been killed by friendly fire. How come they ain't getting this kind of coverage?

Sorry, that middle line was supposed to say

And we all know how accurate and unbiased articles can be.

One thing that bothers me about this case, however, is a nagging question: If you replace Pat Tillman with a completely unknown kid from (say) Des Moines, Iowa, would this friendly fire incident be receiving as much attention? Tillman's death was most certainly a tragedy, but I would hope that the death of any soldier (regardless of noteriety) under the same circumstances would warrant the same amount of attention.

- - - - - - - -

well thats how celebrity works -when more people know of you, more people know of what happens to you. but you know what, if Joe Average from Iowa gets killed by friendlies and the military gets caught lying and exploiting his death, his lack of noteriety won't be an issue and just as many people will care to learn the story.


"Somehow, the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country. Somehow, this is tolerated. Somehow, nobody is accountable for this."
--Kevin Tillman

FTFA:Staff Sgt. Trevor Alders, his vision was "hazy,"...

Another, Spc. Steve Elliott, said he was "excited" by the sight of rifles, muzzle flashes and "shapes."

A third, Spc. Stephen Ashpole, said he saw two figures, and just aimed where everyone else was shooting.

Squad leader Sgt. Greg Baker had 20-20 eyesight, but claimed he had "tunnel vision."

All four failed to identify their targets before firing, a direct violation of the fire discipline techniques drilled into every soldier.


Ooooh shapes! Maybe Kerry had it right.

KIA: 1. "I am a friendly."
2. "I am unarmed."
3. "I am a civilian."

If you happen to be standing next to an indigenous person who is holding or firing an AK-47, any statements you make will probably be disregarded and you may get popped. That is all.

Well yeah...if I'm standing next to a guy holding or firing a machine gun, and he says "I am unarmed", that deserves a cockpunch at the VERY least...

humaniacal: Oh, come on. He was brown and he probably didn't even speak English.

FTW has been reporting on the coverup and lies about Pat Tillman's death for months and doing a much better job then this article.

Sounds like a bunch of baccy-spittin' yokels out drinklin' beer an' shootin' at critters.

"Thar's a coon! Let 'im have it, Cletus!"

Ratatatatatatat!

"Dang, thet wuz ol' Zeke! Shiat, we bedder burn 'is cloze ril quik! Uh, where we at, anyhoo?"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If this is how the mighty U.S. Army Rangers conduct their patrols, no wonder they need air cover prowling all the time. Mano-a-mano the Talibs would slaughter them.

Sounds like someone was close enough to hear him sat "I'm Pat expletive Tillman." Couldn't they see him, or hear that he didn't have an Afghani accent?

And what kind of middle name is expletive?

KEEP FIRING ASHPOLE!

/sad

That dude was a pimp! The guy was a walk-on at AZ State. Making it to the NFL from there is a tough row to hoe! He was so humble that his rookie year when all the other rookies were out buying Bentleys he was riding a bike to practice. He was so loyal that, even when offered big money to go to St. Louis, he took way less to stick with the team that drafted him.

Poor dude should still be alive and kicking, bangin' hot jersey-chasers, and makin' boat loads of cash.

It's sad that it went down like this.

Am I the only one who actually wants to know the name of the allied Afghan fighter? I mean why is tillman any better than this dude? seriously if your only answer is "football" get a clue.
after reading the espn article on this a cpl months ago, i would guess tillman himself would share the same sentiment.

i'm not sure why you think others believe tillman is better than the other guy who got shot. tillman is just somebody that was in the public eye who turned down a big chunk of money to do what he thought was right.

Old news.

1. The dead guy had both hands in the air, and was shouting. Whether or not the shooters could hear him over the sound of their equipment, it should be obvious to anyone with an IQ above room temperature that he was trying to get their attention. Militants attempting to avoid certain death generally don't do that.

2. One of the shooters admitted to having such bad eyesight that he could barely recognize that the guy had both hands up, much less identify friend or foe... yet he still took the shot. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but in my day, admitting to shooting before being able to identify the target would get your ass court martialed in a heartbeat.

We can't really blame anybody other than ourselves, though... I mean, this is the natural result when you give complete morons fully-automatic weapons and set them loose. I just wonder how many civis they've killed before they managed to blast one of their own and get caught.

Having it all and giving it up to fight for your country doesn't make you MORE OF A HERO that a guy who had nothing and went to fight for his country.

It is so tiring hearing about how Tillman is a hero because of how much he gave up.

That marginalizes all the rest of the troops who had absolutly nothing and went off as well and got killed. It basically means rich people are inherently more heroic than a poor person, which is retarded.

Money has nothing to do with heroism.

That said Tillman was a great man and worthy of admiration and respect.

carridin1
What have YOU ever done for your countrymen?

I voted to get them out of a hostile environment where a hundred of them are dying each month. Unfortunately a significant amount of ignorant mother farkers would prefer they die.

seventypercent: It should also be pointed out that Tillman was in fact an Atheist, a fact that gives those of us in the moral community a good deal of pause as we consider how much reverence we should actually give this man.

Fark you you pious arsehole!!
Faith has absolutely nothing to do with being a moral person.
This man was 100 times the man you'll never be.
You should be ashamed of trying to denigrate this man.

zefal: My dad ate rats during WW2 in the Pacific theater

serutan: I saw Pretty in Pink in the Pacific Theater. That floor was filthy. I can understand how they had a rat problem.

You made coffee come out my nose.