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(Jerusalem Post)   Hamas declares war on America. This should end well   (jpost.com) divider line 469
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24336 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Nov 2006 at 10:20 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-11-08 12:22:33 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence

"To rest" isn't the kind of laid that I think we should pursue.

Say hi to the tooth fairy for me!
 
2006-11-08 12:22:50 PM
Manfred Richthofen The question is in the details. Just what do they mean by "proportionate?"

Oh, don't make me go home and pull out my old international law books. I'm sure that relevant discussions are online. Suffice it to say that a broad invasion of a country in response to a kidnapping would be considered disproportionate. However, disproportionate works better than proportionate. I said there was something wrong with international law.
 
2006-11-08 12:24:42 PM
czarangelus: Crocodile tears, Tatsuma, crocodile tears when you still support the policies that will keep the war burning.

Oh fark off. I meet palestinians every two weeks in Montreal. Befriended one.

You're the guy chanting the glory of Hizbullah as they are killing Jews.
 
2006-11-08 12:26:09 PM
Tatsuma: You're the guy chanting the glory of Hizbullah as they are killing Jews.

You are the guy chanting the glory of the IDF as they are killing Lebanese.
 
2006-11-08 12:27:30 PM
he's also the guy who thinks Hezbollah loves the lebaniese.

Czarangelus is uable to decerne reality from Arab propaganda.
 
2006-11-08 12:27:50 PM
Did you all read a different article than me?

Mine said Hamas thought people should "teach America a lesson", which seems like an unlikely translation as this expression does not exist in arabic as far as I know.

it also said: "Our battle is against the occupation on the Palestinian land. We have no interest to transfer the battle," he said, though he said America was indirectly responsible for Wednesday's bloodshed because of its support for Israel.

"We urge the Arab nation and the governments of the Arab countries to protest the world's silence and the American bias," he said.


Doesnt sound like a declared war to me, just some people pissed that the big guy is helping the other side of the debate.

/but please, the jerusalem post has nothing to gain from making it look like those dirty palestines want to rape our pretty american babies...
 
2006-11-08 12:28:55 PM
BoozePenguin: he's also the guy who thinks Hezbollah loves the lebaniese.

Hezbollah is the Lebanese. I can't get enough of this batshiat insane argument. I can't believe they actually have you convinced that hundreds of thousands of Lebanese are doing nothing but supporting Iran's agenda, rather than defending their country against an invasion.
 
2006-11-08 12:30:27 PM
Galloping Galoshes

Oh, don't make me go home and pull out my old international law books. I'm sure that relevant discussions are online. Suffice it to say that a broad invasion of a country in response to a kidnapping would be considered disproportionate. However, disproportionate works better than proportionate. I said there was something wrong with international law.

Well, you've been very informative.

Are you practicing now or still in school? If the latter, best luck for your remaining years. If the former, go back to billing your clients =)

/practicing in Illinois, licensed in WI and CA.
 
2006-11-08 12:30:54 PM
czarangelus: You are the guy chanting the glory of the IDF as they are killing Lebanese.

No, I didn't, and I said I wish that Hizbullah had not attacked, so that not a single civilian soul would have died

I never cheered any innocent death
You have cheered Hizbullah attacks that killed innocent Jews

People see through you.
 
2006-11-08 12:31:30 PM
THE JERUSALEM POST

That's like getting encyclopedia facts from The Weekly World News (aka The Paper).

//S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y NiGhT! (obscure?)
 
2006-11-08 12:32:44 PM
bamirza:

If you read the farking thread, you'd realize there are links to the same story by the Associated Press.
 
2006-11-08 12:33:40 PM
Tatsuma: No, I didn't, and I said I wish that Hizbullah had not attacked, so that not a single civilian soul would have died

Yeah right. They simply would have found another excuse to attack. But the war itself was a forgone conclusion.

You have cheered Hizbullah attacks that killed innocent Jews

Actually, the attacks I really favor are the ones that didn't kill anyone but kept everyone in bunkers. Economic damage without loss of life.
 
2006-11-08 12:35:17 PM
we can have this debate again, czarangelus.

Hezbollah has 14 seats in the lebaniese parliment, but is the only armed party so they're able to stage military opperations directed against the Israeli's. They did this without the concent or input of any of the other lebaniese political parties. They can do this, because they are an armed paramilitary organization that does what it wants, how it wants, and is accountable to noone except the iranians who fund them and the syrians who support them.

Last time we debated this you were telling me how they are democratic, because they build schools, etc. that got destroyed after the bombing.

care to debate this again?
 
2006-11-08 12:35:45 PM
czarangelus: Hezbollah is the Lebanese. I can't get enough of this batshiat insane argument. I can't believe they actually have you convinced that hundreds of thousands of Lebanese are doing nothing but supporting Iran's agenda, rather than defending their country against an invasion.

Just face it dude, reality is biased towards the truth.
 
2006-11-08 12:37:02 PM
Tatsuma:
Spin that all you want, I still think that midgets look better in spandex.
 
2006-11-08 12:37:10 PM
cryptozoophiliac
I'll humbly repeat my solution to this problem: end all financial support for Israel and the Palestinian authority, ban all private contributions from American citizens to either group (this would include Hamas, Fatah or whoever).


I'd agree to the first part, but I'd let private parties give whatever they want. Israel could still buy weapons, but cash on the barrelhead.

The interesting thing is, Israel would either be able to make it on its own -- in which case, it's a win for the U.S., since we get what we want more cheaply -- or it would feel its existence as a nation was threatened, and take out a good portion of the Middle East. The U.S. would be blameless, since we would have no influence over what they did, and as for Israel -- well, when a bunch of bullies get shot after attacking a smaller kid, people generally feel less sympathy for them. We could even take all the Israelis who wanted to immigrate, as a humanitarian gesture.
 
2006-11-08 12:39:17 PM
Where are the pics of the hot IDF girls?

/thread totally useless without
 
2006-11-08 12:40:07 PM
Snarfangel: The U.S. would be blameless, since we would have no influence over what they did, and as for Israel -- well, when a bunch of bullies get shot after attacking a smaller kid, people generally feel less sympathy for them

Israel is that bully which you are talking about. Sonic booms over the capitals of neighboring countries, spies, bombings, and the mass incarceration of the Palestinian people. You have everything ass backwards.
 
2006-11-08 12:42:15 PM
Ironic they declare war right after the Dems win.

Ironic? Doesn't that imply irony? It was much more of a conditioned response. They know that if they make warlike noises, the Democrats will financially reward them with our tax dollars. It's no more "ironic" than a panhandler coming up to you, showing you a weapon, and then "asking" you for $20 is "ironic".
 
2006-11-08 12:42:44 PM
Try our new USAF postal service, we deliver bombs to anywhere on the planet.
 
2006-11-08 12:43:41 PM
Where are you getting you're history from?

look, by the arabs own admission

http://www.arab.net/palestine/pe_israelstate.htm

"The state of Israel was established as of 14 May 1948. At once, five Arab armies, in support of the Palestinians, attacked the new state but were ultimately defeated. At the end of what is known as the first Arab-Israeli War, Israel's victory gave it more territory while Jordan took the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza Strip."

So they were immediatly attacked. Doesn't sound like dialogue ro compramise to me. And Egypt and Jordan occupied the palestinian territories? Wasn't that supposed to be the palestinian homeland?
 
2006-11-08 12:44:23 PM

czarangelus

Israeli war criminals should be punished instead of getting off scot free, violating UN resolution after UN resolution.


If you check, you'll find that a force using civilians as cover is 100% responsible for them if they are killed by return fire.

But then, this hypocrisy is nothing new. A few years ago the palestinians were making mortars and shells in a refugee camp. The Israelis raided the camp and took out the weapon making shop. The very next day the Palestinians were demanding that the UN make Israel pay for the war crime of attacking a refugee camp.

This is the same kind of stupidity as a man killing his own parents and then demanding mercy from the court because he's now an orphan.
 
2006-11-08 12:45:03 PM
BoozePenguin: "The state of Israel was established as of 14 May 1948. At once, five Arab armies, in support of the Palestinians, attacked the new state but were ultimately defeated. At the end of what is known as the first Arab-Israeli War, Israel's victory gave it more territory while Jordan took the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza Strip."

Actually, Palestine was attacked when the Jews started mass emigrating there. The states around "Israel" were getting huge numbers of Palestinian refugees that were being kicked out by the Jews, so they attacked to protect their country's own stability against the refugees. What a one-sided view of history you have.
 
2006-11-08 12:47:28 PM
czarangelus

I certainly can't add much to the debate you are having, and losing, with Tatsuma but I did take a look at your picture in your profile....

BWAHAHAHA AHAH A HAHAHAHA HA HAHAHAH
 
2006-11-08 12:47:36 PM
Say hi to the tooth fairy for me!

Hey, I'm gainfully employed with a job I love, I'm married to a wonderful woman, and we have a great child. You, on the other hand (according to your profile), apparently have trouble meeting women, despite the fact that there are more women than men in the US.

Why are you so desperate in your seeking of any woman?

/taking a regular shower might help, you know...
 
2006-11-08 12:48:06 PM
So the real problem was that the jews started moving there in the first place? Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like a plurilistic society to me!

Also, the jews bought the land, they didn't just kick everybody out. And if the attack was to protect the palestinians, why did egypt and jordan occupy the palestinian arabs land for almost 20 years?
 
2006-11-08 12:48:41 PM
Release_The_Kracken: I certainly can't add much to the debate you are having, and losing, with Tatsuma but I did take a look at your picture in your profile....

BWAHAHAHA AHAH A HAHAHAHA HA HAHAHAH


Er, yes? I look like a crypto-hippy college student. If I were trying to hide that, I wouldn't have my picture up now would I? ;)
 
2006-11-08 12:49:19 PM
if you let czar talk for long enough the logical contradictions eventualy degrade the value of his arguments. He's his own worst enemy.
 
2006-11-08 12:49:41 PM
czarangelus: Actually, the attacks I really favor are the ones that didn't kill anyone but kept everyone in bunkers. Economic damage without loss of life.

Spin it however you want, I find it utterly sad that the Palestinians are forced to go through checkpoints, and you rejoice that Jews have to hide in bomb shelters, fearing for their lives

That's the difference between you and me.
 
2006-11-08 12:49:53 PM
BoozePenguin: So the real problem was that the jews started moving there in the first place? Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like a plurilistic society to me!

No shiat. Americans don't much appreciate mass Mexican immigration do they? It's not good for the stability of a country.

Also, the jews bought the land, they didn't just kick everybody out.

In the same way the government buys land with imminent domain.
 
2006-11-08 12:49:54 PM
czarangelus, I may not be a philosophy major, but I know when someone is full of shiat. and you sir, are so full of shiat, your eyes are brown.
 
2006-11-08 12:50:51 PM
Release the Kracken, what do you expect from a philosophy major? When he graduates, he'll end up asking people "Tall, Venti, 0r Grande?" for 8 hours a day...
 
2006-11-08 12:51:07 PM
Tatsuma: and you rejoice that Jews have to hide in bomb shelters, fearing for their lives

On the occasion of Israel bombing the shiat out of Lebanon and killing 1400 civilians only to make Hezbollah stronger and more respected? Yes, and I haven't tried to hide that fact. They were safe but their economic interests were ruined. Maybe they'll think long and hard before starting another full scale war with Hezbollah.
 
2006-11-08 12:52:05 PM
America doesn't kill any mexican that comes to the country though. I have yet to hear an american advocate the destruction of the mexican people.

If there was an immigration problem they should have dealt with it like adults. Not advocate the destruction of an entire race of people.
 
2006-11-08 12:52:17 PM
Er, yes? I look like a crypto-hippy college student.

Nah, you look like somebody that is "soon to be homeless", once your student loans stop coming...
 
2006-11-08 12:53:26 PM
Maybe they'll think long and hard before starting another full scale war with Hezbollah.

Or maybe they'll get their balls back after the next election, and nuke Damascus and Tehran.
 
2006-11-08 12:54:53 PM
BoozePenguin: if you let czar talk for long enough the logical contradictions eventualy degrade the value of his arguments. He's his own worst enemy.

"I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large - I contain multitudes."
 
2006-11-08 12:54:54 PM
czarangelus: On the occasion of Israel bombing the shiat out of Lebanon and killing 1400 civilians only to make Hezbollah stronger and more respected? Yes, and I haven't tried to hide that fact. They were safe but their economic interests were ruined. Maybe they'll think long and hard before starting another full scale war with Hezbollah.

and yet ignoring that Hizbullah started the war.

You dance when Jews are being attacked, you revel in the fact they have to hide for days in bomb shelters and you're proud of it

You're saying just about everything there is to know about you.

As for me, this "debate" is over, mr shuk.
 
2006-11-08 12:55:21 PM
czarangelus You have everything ass backwards.

Israel only became a "bully" after 1967, when they disposed of the Egyptian, Jordanian, and Syrian armies. World perception shifted, believing now that Israel was stronger than its enemies. Prior to that this was not the case. Even though Israel was now considered stronger, the attacks did not cease, the war took a different form. The war continues.

If you look at things that happen this year, and circumstances that exist this year, you take the entire struggle out of context. Since the actors do not, any solutions you offer will not be useful because you will not have addressed the root causes of the conflict. For example, you talk of the mass incarceration of the Palestinian people. This took place after 1947, when they fled Israel. The ARAB countries put them in camps and refused to let them blend into society, in order to avoid problems with assimilation and to make them a pawn in the Arab-Israeli struggle. Jordan waged a war against them. So please to not blame solely Israel for these things, and expect Israel to provide the solution, when they are reacting rationally to an ongoing situation that they have found themselves in.
 
2006-11-08 12:56:03 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence: Nah, you look like somebody that is "soon to be homeless", once your student loans stop coming...

Nah, I think I'll be alright.

Or maybe they'll get their balls back after the next election, and nuke Damascus and Tehran.

And start a huge war that would kill 40 million people. That's a brilliant plan. And for your next trick, you will crash the moon into the earth?
 
2006-11-08 12:59:11 PM
yes you do czar, and when somebody points it out to you the general responce tends to be "b-b-b-but israel".

You do no service to the palestinian side of the argument. There are certaintly 2 sides to this issue. But you absolve the responsibility of terrorist paramilitary groups with israel's existance. You said yourself the real problem was that the jews went to that country in the first place.

If the situation in the palestinian territories is so bad, why do they spend so much money on weapons? Why do palestinians have to go to israel to attain higher education? Israel serves as a distraction for arab dictators. It's a tool to divert attention away from their own incompitance, their own failure to provide for there people.
 
2006-11-08 01:00:07 PM
czarangelus Actually, Palestine was attacked when the Jews started mass emigrating there. The states around "Israel" were getting huge numbers of Palestinian refugees that were being kicked out by the Jews, so they attacked to protect their country's own stability against the refugees. What a one-sided view of history you have.

That is the strangest reading of history I have ever read. First, the Ottomans, who controlled the area, welcomed the immigration. Second, you equate human migration with an attack. By that reasoning, the US is under attack from Mexico, Germany by Turkey, Britain by Pakistan, etc. Third, Palestinians left Israel in 1947, there was no migration going on in the 60's.

If you are sincere in your beliefs, go read history of the area from the 1960s.
 
2006-11-08 01:01:06 PM
czarangelus: Actually, Palestine was attacked when the Jews started mass emigrating there.

Er, no. You're not even remotely close. The lead-up to Israeli independence was preceeded by years of anti-Jewish movements decrying, not refugees, but the possibility of Jews having sovereignty, which arabs objected to on a number of grounds, including the possibility of a future refugee problem (e.g., the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem joining forces with the Nazis to call for extermination of the Jews in the Middle East (my term -- he just talked about borroing the same formula as was used in Germany and Italy)).

When Israel declared independence, there was no onslaught of refugees, but there were growing attacks on Jewish "targets" (which means, in this sense, "buses"). The war heated up from there. The Palestinian Refugee Crisis didn't result until the U.N., in its infinite wisdom, declared a right of return but then didn't bother to do anything about it. That allowed future Arab governments to essentially place the Arab Palestinians in internment camps on a permanent basis, perpetuating the horrific cultural and economic plight that we still see.
 
2006-11-08 01:01:32 PM
israel and palestine are like the hatfields and mccoys. no one is going to stop bickering and killing until there's no one left on one of the sides.

the next 50 years will continue like the past 50 years, where war, atrocity and death is a weekly if not daily event. there is no recompense for an innocently killed person except the killing of an innocent in return.

so it goes.
 
2006-11-08 01:02:56 PM
Galloping Galoshes: By that reasoning, the US is under attack from Mexico, Germany by Turkey, Britain by Pakistan, etc.

There is an element of truth to this. Fast or large shifts in the demographics of a population has a history of causing turmoil and conflict.

If you are sincere in your beliefs, go read history of the area from the 1960s.

I have read this history from both sides. People act like I don't understand the Israeli side. I used to argue as strongly as Tatsuma in favor of Israel. But the more I read and learned, the more I discovered that Israel acts unconscionably towards its neighbors, who are quite capable of destroying it (Syria's chem weapons, Pakistan's nukes.)
 
2006-11-08 01:06:31 PM
The issue here is that you seem to have trouble understanding that the face these paramilitary organizations put forward to the world, is propaganda. Look at what your doing right here. Expressing conflicting opinions to my own. You're able to do this because my personal army isn't going to drag you into the street and blow your head off for it. People in the west bank and gaza strip DO NOT speak out against Hamas because thouse who do are made an example of. Same for Hezbollah. Who can really speak out against Hezbollah? Who can challenge there power if the army can't? It's a very effective method of societal control, and it's clear you've never experianced it.

Hamas doesn't tollerate dissent. The west does.

You don't know what it's like to live in places dominated by militias. Don't justify there existance with some sort of "attack" migration. It's an insult.
 
2006-11-08 01:07:54 PM
also, thought you should know. Pakistan isn't an arab country, or one of Israels neighbours.

Pakistan has very little involvment in arab problems because, suprise suprise, they're not arabs.

Nice try though
 
2006-11-08 01:10:55 PM
BoozePenguin: also, thought you should know. Pakistan isn't an arab country, or one of Israels neighbours.

If you're in a country's missile range, you're a neighbor whether you like it or not.
 
2006-11-08 01:10:58 PM
Now why couldn't they do this before the election? I guess they waited to see if the Democrats won, so they could tell if they'd be safe in threatening our safety.
 
2006-11-08 01:13:04 PM
czarangelus People act like I don't understand the Israeli side.

Your arguments do not reflect balance. Therefore, people dismiss you and do not engage your arguments.

I do not perceive that you believe the viewpoint of Israelis is legitimate. I may be mistaken, but it seems you believe that Israel is purposefully distressing the Palestinian population for the sake of distressing them. It seems you burden Israel with the responsibility for all that is wrong, and require that they provide the solution. I may be misreading your posts, however.
 
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