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(St. Petersburg Times)   Jeb Bush condemns prominent Republicans for anti-Islam statements. Republicans counter with anti-Jeb statements   (sptimes.com) divider line 17
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572 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Nov 2006 at 5:30 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-11-02 05:27:18 AM
I'm so torn, lately.

I really strongly oppose many of the tenets of Islam that if only it didn't involve siding with wingnut bigots like these, I might take a strong stand against the entire religion. Sentencing any follower who rejects the faith to death isn't a religion, it's slavery; and demanding that the faithful bring the word of Islam to the infidels by the sword is a declaration of war on the rest of the world. It's not cool. Islam, by its very nature, can't play nice.

Unfortunately, since world peace comes before philosophical correctness, we gotta do this a step at a time, and there's no room for these hypocritical Christian crusaders' fanatical bullshiat.

I oppose Islam, but not nearly as strongly as I oppose these asshole who say that we have to take the war to Islamic nations and attack them before they attack us. If this can be solved philosophically - and the existence of moderate muslims suggests that it can - then there's no excuse for a war of any kind, much less one of aggression.

Ick.

/I still hate Jeb. He's only doing this to score some cheap pre-election political points with the center; he's still an asshole.
 
2006-11-02 06:17:42 AM
shadesofblack: he's still an asshole.

A trait that runs true in the veins of every Walker-Bush
 
2006-11-02 06:34:14 AM
The party of hate strikes again.
 
2006-11-02 07:09:12 AM
My significant other is Palestinian and Muslim. The problem with the statement of Hogan is that he lays a blanket over an entire religion. Whenever you do that to any subject matter, you are going to find exceptions. In this case of moderate muslims, you will find millions of exceptions.

There are facets of a lot of religions(including Christianity) that preach some type of ostracizing. A lot of Christians are so busy pointing fingers at other people that they can't take care of what's going on in their own backyard. That is the reason that a lot of right-wingers sound like they are off their rocker to me.

Islam is based on old social idealism and so is Christianity. If people truly followed the letter of the law in the Bible, we would be killing our children for disrespecting us, killing men for sleeping in the same bed as a woman who has had her period, not putting up Christmas trees or celebrating anything other than holidays mandated by God. Because the Middle East has not grown technologically or as industrially as the other parts of the world, they haven't grown a whole lot socially either. So they have been more able to hold on to the ancient views of the world which makes it easier to control people.

To be honest with you, it sounds like Christians are jealous that they lack the same kind of uniformity.


//Signicant other is muslim, not me
////choose not to choose any religion
//still going to hell
//slashes
 
2006-11-02 07:36:08 AM
shadesofblack:
Islam, by its very nature, can't play nice.

Like any religious text, the Koran is contradictory and open to interpretation. For every verse in the Koran about killing enemy infidels, traitors and apostates, there are ten about God being forgiving and mercyful and demanding the same of his followers. Not to mention that it specifically outlaws agression.

I'm no fan of Islam either, it's probably my least favorite dominant, monotheistic belief-system, but condemning it like that is just not productive.
Islam is whatever people who follow it make it. And fortunately, a lot of them both can and do play nice.
 
2006-11-02 07:55:44 AM
swdavus: My significant other is Palestinian and Muslim. The problem with the statement of Hogan is that he lays a blanket over an entire religion. Whenever you do that to any subject matter, you are going to find exceptions. In this case of moderate muslims, you will find millions of exceptions.

There are facets of a lot of religions(including Christianity) that preach some type of ostracizing. A lot of Christians are so busy pointing fingers at other people that they can't take care of what's going on in their own backyard. That is the reason that a lot of right-wingers sound like they are off their rocker to me.


This is true, but one of these religions isn't being the main cause for many of the wars and quarrels that are going on around the world.

If Muslims acted like Christians do, they would be given the same respect. If Christians acted like Muslims do, they would be getting the same crap that Muslims are getting down. The only reason Christianity is getting undue scorn in this country is because it is the most public religion, and people go lowest-common denominator when they want to go into emo-induced rant about believers.
 
2006-11-02 08:06:46 AM
Hey Death I bet you would really be happy in Castro's Cuba!
As far as Islam is concerned as of right now its protected by law the same as all of them.
After reading parts of " Profit of Doom " Free if you just Google it I think with it's my way or the highway attitude it might become necessary to ban and deport before it's over.
It stresses either we have to change or die.
No quarter given.
Yes there are many Islamic people that don't believe in killing but you know there were good Germans involved in Hitlers Hate groups that were caught up in his madness also.
Jeb would be remiss of his job if he condoned hate speech against his citizens.
Oh and Lib's Jeb enjoys a 70 % favorable rating in Florida.
 
2006-11-02 08:20:39 AM
swdavus
If people truly followed the letter of the law in the Bible,

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html (sorry, no html skillz)

larry00, it's called punctuation. Start with commas, move on to apostrophes, and after some practice, you might be able to use a semicolon safely. Reading your post made my brain hurt; it's hard to take home-schooled kids like you seriously.

/Seldom is the question asked, is our larry00 learning?
 
2006-11-02 09:04:30 AM
larry00: After reading parts of " Profit of Doom "

Hmmm, from the website:

Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. And if you think these conclusions are shocking, wait until you see the evidence.

But I suppose you don't consider the author and yourself bigots, do you.
 
2006-11-02 09:47:57 AM
oh! this thread just reminded me that i'm visiting my folks this weekend, so lots of arguing with my father about islam. he's one of those, "oh!!! they all wanna kill us!! oh!!!". too bad he's not even religious and still buys into this shiat.
 
2006-11-02 10:45:27 AM
Can we get an Islamic version of that anti-Christian "not persecuted, not yours" photoshop? It somehow seems appropriate.

/Christian, BTW; just want equal treatment for everyone.
 
2006-11-02 11:36:47 AM
I am open minded and don't agree with the condemnation of an entire religon, but seriously folks -

It is a lot easier to meet a moderate christian than a moderate muslim. There are millions upon millions of "light catholics, baptists",etc. There are not so many "light muslims" They are either slightly moderate or crazy terrorist bastards.

so just to be safe

lets kill them all :)
 
2006-11-02 11:57:03 AM
TheWolfdog:
It is a lot easier to meet a moderate christian than a moderate muslim.

YMMV, but I meet Muslims every day, who are peaceful, ordinary people, just trying to live their lives and take care of their families like everybody else.

If you only meet Muslims in the media, that's probably your problem right there.
 
2006-11-02 11:59:47 AM
Odd no I'm not a bigot and I don't know the author.
When you quote a passage that says you will believe this way or die I would rather take it as a fact.
Our old testament before reformation was as bloody as the Koran.
The author is a self made millionare and he tooted his on horn sucessfully I read his bio and you deside for yourself.
 
2006-11-02 12:14:56 PM
Anyone here ever read The End of Faith by Sam Harris?

Religion of peace, my ass.

The moderate Muslims (and Christians) are the ones who have learned to *ignore* large portions of their books. This is indeed a good thing, but what does it say about a religion when its most peaceful followers are also those that know the least about it?

Why does religion always get a free pass in the media? Why can't we criticize another's beliefs in the same way that the media routinely treats UFOs and psychics.

I'm not flaming religion, per se, right here - just how if someone says they believe Unicorns exist, we ridicule them, but if they believe Mohammed rose to heaven on a winged horse, we're supposed to politely STFU.
 
2006-11-02 01:10:57 PM
shadesofblack
Sentencing any follower who rejects the faith to death isn't a religion, it's slavery;

The Koran itself never says that; it says apostates will go to hell, not that apostates must be killed. In fact the only apostate brought before Mohammad himself was forgiven and allowed to leave peacefully.

and demanding that the faithful bring the word of Islam to the infidels by the sword

Actually, the Koran forbids conversion by the sword.
 
2006-11-02 01:14:06 PM
Prude_Hawkeye
The moderate Muslims (and Christians) are the ones who have learned to *ignore* large portions of their books.

I disagree. The fundamentalist Muslims need to ignore many, many parts of the book to do things they do. For example, Mohammad explicitly forbids the killing of civilians in times of war, and permits military violence only as much as necessary to prevent one's nation from being conquered by another. They also often ignore the passages in the Koran which say that women and men are always to be equals in all things.
 
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