Yeah, now that I've read it this is no big deal. It's lawyerese for "don't cheat or be sloppy" when you do a benchmark. People, especially competing software companies, are famous for dicking around and finding ways in which something sucks and then touting that theirs is x times faster. So they're just giving fair warning that they will sue in that case. No big thing.

d_lebowski
If it is such terrible software why does the majority keep using it?

Because it's "good enough." People are constantly getting pissed off at their computers. And it's been this way for so long, they expect it. So they just deal with it. It's not that they're dumb, it's that they don't know any better.

The thing that kept Microsoft going was people not really having a viable alternative. Switching to Linux was too hard, and switching to Mac meant all your old software stopped working, or worked slowly under expensive emulation software. Now that Linux has gotten easier, and Apples are running on Intel chips making virtualization just as fast as native processing, Microsoft is seeing a threat: People, for the first time, will be able to use different operating systems without risk or expense.

And that is why these restrictive EULAs and crazy versioning (seven versions of Vista) and huge hardware requirements are going to hurt Windows in the long run.

lebowski, it is changing as you and I type these messages. OS X is gaining ground fast, and I believe Linux is as well (I'm not 100% on that one). I do know that Linux is slowly but surely becoming a more viable alternative for the "masses". The reason it hasn't happened faster is because people are pretty much locked into the MS mindset. Very few even know they have a choice in the matter (which is crazy when you think about it), which is why you'll have job security for quite some time yet.

/don't think MS is "The Great Evil"
//do think that Windows is a clearly dated and inferior product to OS X

Go to The Unofficial Ubuntu Guide if you are new to Ubuntu.

It will show you how to install the free but not gnu license free stuff (for example the mp3 codec)

BlindMan

Hooray, microsoft haters!

I'm sure the reason Bill Gates has gotten so rich and Microsoft is a such an important and respected company with enormous resources is because all their software sucks total ass and is worthless and I bet you could do better in your spare time.

So by your logic, when a car manufacturer puts out a shiatty car, you aren't allowed to critic it because you couldn't build a better one yourself?

Most people who critic windows have very real technical reasons to do so. As a C++ developer for years who has been using the crap they shovel on a day-to-day basis, and who also uses/develop under linux, I know exactly why and how their stuff is crap.
And to cut under your unavoidable answer of "why don't you explain them how to fix it if you're so clever",
1. they don't care, because they have managed to force about anyone buying a pc to buy their software aswell with it, so they're never put in a fair competition (which they are scared of because they know they'd get their ass handed to them)
2. they know that most of their customers are "who cares" asshats like you that don't give a shiat.

Most people don't give a shiat until their system breaks. Then they ask for their IT-savy friend to fix it for them.
So in effect, people like me are supposed to waste their time fixing microsoft's careless crap.

I hate wasting my time fixing the consequences of other people's careless work, just because they are lazy farks who don't give a shiat as they know someone will mop up the crap after them.

NCg8r: So armed robbery is the height of better business practices???

If you're successful and don't get caught, YES.

Armed robbery is not very profitable.

But the overhead is very manageable. If Profit is just an Index, you hit the right victim(s) and your Indices SHINE!

dergeist

Games are the big thing. Why I still run Windows (that and work stuff). Aside from that I have had no problem with Ubuntu. There are many reasons to keep windows for some people, but I think a lot of people that just use a computer for certain things could be happy with a new OS if they spend a little time to work with it.

Dr. Frisbee, others

I experimented enough to find out how to get MP3 support, and I downloaded a few different media players, but none of the ones I tried were any good. XMMS is Winamp 2, but I don't want Winamp 2, I want Winamp. I don't recall trying Mplayer. I did try Amarok and though it wouldn't play any files (wherever you told it to start, it immediately behaved as though it had been through the whole list from that point on and had just finished playing them all) it was as far as I can tell similar to the rest in that there was no way to get it to behave as Winamp does (with a playlist window open at the same time as a library window containing more than one pane) or to customise it as much. It appeared to be the best of the bunch but it still wasn't good enough.

Bill Gates jumped ship at the perfect moment.

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer

If Linux Geeks spent 1/10th the time reading the Windows documentation that they spend dorking around with Linux, they'd know how it works and it would stop crashing on them.

That's pretty funny given that the usual critics against linux are that it's too complicated. Now you're telling me that you need to read the windows documentation to know how to avoid it crashing?
That's top notch end-user experience right there.

By the way, I rarely have problems with crashes, I have problem with shiatty performance.

Does that magic documentation explains how to prevent windows xp to run like shiat on every single machine I ever used it on, including on the pc I'm using right now at work which includes a 3Ghz cpu and 2gb of ram?

Unless, of course, opening a directory containing a few hundred items in the explorer taking 30 seconds is considered acceptable performance in the happy microsoft world.

/And don't get me started on visual c++ 2005

g-spank: do think that Windows is a clearly dated and inferior product to OS X

In some ways yes, is some ways no. While apple states they are a hardware company, if they released a version that ran on any PC's (or ones with a minimum requirement such as nvidia video card, P4 or AMD 64 etc) and ran all mac applications, they would do much better on sliding into MS based markets/customers. Until they do that, they will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and little will be done by other mainstream companies to release higher end apps and games on the mac (IE. Autocad, and please don't specify other mac compatible cad progs as even they have issues on being compatible with the industry standard).

Linux faces the opposite hurdle. It can run on any config of PC's but do to varied builds and lack of driver support and the amount of tweaking that has to go on and the lack of "mainstream" app development for it does not make it a viable operating system for the masses no matter how stable it is.

Take flight to Russia,
Benchmark the crap out of it,
Drink Vodka
Publish results on .ru
Fly back.

Yeah, God, I hear what you're saying. Apple is gaining market-share right now at a pretty good clip, though. Steve Jobs always admired SONY, back when Sony made great products, so I think that his vision isn't to necessarily dominate the OS War, but to create products that all work beautifully together. I doubt Apple will ever have much more than 20% of the market, but considering they jumped from 1.2% to 6.3% in the last 4 years, and they are making percentage gains quarterly now, that 20% might not be too far off. I imagine the games & AutoCAD will come their way eventually...

Dr. Frisbee

Oh, believe me, I agree. Most non-gamer users would actually benefit from trying/learning Ubuntu. I love Ubuntu, I actually wish I could use it as my main OS. I am just stubborn and want my games and full compatibility with Office and Flash (kinda self-defeating, I know...). A KVM would solve all my problems (except that pesky power bill ;-) )


Abelian Groupie

Yeah, amarok can suck to set up, once it works it's a thing of beauty though. Try installing ALSA (if you ever attempt the "Linux thing" again) as that works for most people. You can skin VLC and mplayer to emulate a winamp-style interface, plus Rhythmbox is very simple, nice and functional. If you get amarok working you'll find it's really quite well done, with automatic Wikipedia lookups, lyrics fetching, and more neat stuff.

Abelian Groupie

Sounds fair. Probably just stick with Windows then. Unfortunately a lot of Linux software is a little bit more rough than some Windows' counterparts.

NCg8r
I hate to break this to you, but if you are doing something in a more profitable way, you're also doing it a better way, profits are just an index, really.

Wrong again. The profit margin on a piece of shiat particle board entertainment center is probably higher than on an all-wood, hand-crafted entertainment center. Is the particle board one "better?" fark no.

And I could point to a thousand other examples where you're wrong. Economics is not the only way real people determine value.

As a Linux user of a few years, I suggest most Windows users either stick with Windows or buy a Mac. Unix and Linux are complex professional computing environments that require a significant devotion to learning. For one to truly enjoy a Linux operating system one must be dedicated to tinkering under the hood a little and learning how the system operates. Only then will the beauty of the GUI, the fast performance, and the rock solid capability be appreciated. Not to denigrate Windows, but it really is best suited to gaming. I do not recommend using anything beyond 2k due to the bloat. If you want a pretty GUI, use a Mac. Just my opinion, I am certainly no expert.

God--
In some ways yes, is some ways no. While apple states they are a hardware company, if they released a version that ran on any PC's (or ones with a minimum requirement such as nvidia video card, P4 or AMD 64 etc) and ran all mac applications, they would do much better on sliding into MS based markets/customers. Until they do that, they will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and little will be done by other mainstream companies to release higher end apps and games on the mac (IE. Autocad, and please don't specify other mac compatible cad progs as even they have issues on being compatible with the industry standard).

But how many people, really, use Autocad or other software like that? Not very many. Most people use their machines for internet, email, and word processing. A significant number of people, but not the majority, also use their machines for gaming, managing digital photographs and doing financial work.

Other than gaming, Macs are at least on equal footing with Windows boxes in all respects, if not better. Their switch to Intel will help them on this front as well.

I'm with Microsoft on this one. You don't need an instrument to measure suck.

And I could point to a thousand other examples where you're wrong.

I'm sure you could, it's not hard. However, that quote was not from me, but rather something I was responding to.

Abelian Groupie and Beemer

Run EasyUbuntu on your machine...it allows you to install all of the needed codecs that the stock Ubuntu disk can legally give away.

This will give you the ability to play anything you need straight out of the box.

It will also install Amarok for you. Amarok is arguably the undisputed champ of all media players. Itunes, windows media player, and even winamp can't even hold a light to it.

I know people who run Linux simply because of this program.

Get Amarok!!!

BlindMan

The Icelander
Bill Gates is rich for the same reason Rockefeller was rich. It's not that he did anything better than anybody else, he just did things in a more profitable way. And if you're measuring success in dollars, that's all that matters.

I hate to break this to you, but if you are doing something in a more profitable way, you're also doing it a better way, profits are just an index, really.

If you define better as 'more profitable' then yes. Better is very subjective and flexible. Let's just call it 'more profitable' and leave the unmeasurable and subjective out of it.

a friend of mine made this comment a few years back:

"Linux is free, only if your time is worth nothing"

:)

i had a prob with my mac
they didn't want to fix it under waranty
said it would be $900 to replace the logic board
i was thinking i could just buy a pc laptop for $900

i'm thinking of the comic who said, "You know how you don't have a girlfriend and you really want one...then you get one again and you're like..oh yeah. i remember."

I'm like that with Microsoft at this pt.

I tried Simply MEPIS 6.0...and it really works great for my laptop. Screw Vi$ta!

The install was easy, and I'm planning to install that on my desktop box after I'm finish my Access 2003 class.

"I want it to read my mind. When it can do that, then I'll be impressed."

Automaticly downloads porn, browses Fark and Foobies? I could write a app to do that. Do you want it in ASP.net, PHP, Macromedia Flash, or something a little more client side?

I switched to a mac a few years ago, and I have to admit I'm very impressed at how well Apple has handled the platform changover from PowerPC to Intel. I still have an old PPC Mac, but all the new software still works for me. Newer Macs also have access to all the old PPC software (even though through emulation) at an acceptable speed.

Microsoft, by comparison, has the hardest time just trying to make their old speghetti-code work after all of the fevered feature adding they've done over the years. Windows 2000 was more stable than ME and 9X, no one can deny that. But is XP more stable than 2000? Some would say no and that Vista is headed in the wrong direction as far as speed and stability is concerned.

I think as far as striking a good balance between a dependable platform and user friendliness goes, the Macs win. Different situations call for diferent tools, but for most home and business users, I would recommend a mac over buying a PC with Vista.

Just my 2c

mikekol: It *doesn't* require 2GB of RAM. I believe that the minimum requirement is 512MB

Just for fun I shoved the RC1 onto my crappy backup computer, a Sempron 2200 with 512MB. It ran fine with no applications open, but was useless for any real work. Vista on its own used about 450 megs of RAM. It was better than XP on 128MB.

Aero Glass won't run on VIA/S3 integrated graphics, but any discrete video card made in the last three years should run it.

The article is just doomsaying based on incomplete information. As has been posted before, you can benchmark, and you can publish the results as long as you clearly state what versions, hardware, etc you used.

It makes sense to me. I really don't understand the problem here.

Cartman34
L.Darte

Very true. But isn't Win2k is next in line of OS they'll stop supporting?

BTW, are they still posting updates/patches for that OS?

//just curious

I think they may have pulled the plug on W2Kpro already, or if they haven't, it will get pulled very soon. It doesn't really matter though. I have the service packs stashed away so if I need to reload the OS, I can do so.

For my requirements, all the OS needs to do is host and launch applications and do so with some measure of stability. W2Kpro does that reasonably well, so why upgrade? Cutesy animated desktops and bloated window dressing is neither needed nor wanted. Just boot and launch my damn application and quit eating my system reasources like there is no tomorrow.

ivars

Ask them if they're really serious about:

a) only one re-installation of the product after purchase

b) no running of Basic and Premium Basic in VMWare

c) how they expect customers to stick with them with these rules


This is non-binding opinion coming from me, but I'm really getting a kick out of all these replies, if you know what I mean.

a.) that's what's EULA'd, and when you'll have to call the activation hotline to get things reactivated (if you've done this before, it's got a bit of time consuming-ness, but it's not bad)

b.) yeah, non basic SKUs don't get VM'd. You also won't get much functionality from them that you'd want. The server SKUs will VM I'd guess, and the good client SKUs will VM, including enterprise, and you know, the ones that "normal" people will buy. Just not the ones that say, Dell or HP might package with low-end systems.

c.) Barring the fact it's just a flamebait post, think about 90% of the home client users you know. (running W2K, XPh, or XPp) How many of them are affected by any of the above, or not being able to benchmark the .NET framework? For most users, these are so far ahead of the comprehension curve that they're not even worth batting an eye at. Enthusiasts will dabble in Linux, possibly even develop in Linus, servers will run in Linux or Windows, or BSDs, depending on their use and the available admin knowledge, and the sun will rise in the East tomorrow morning, once again.

BlindMan:
Hooray, microsoft haters!
I'm sure the reason Bill Gates has gotten so rich and Microsoft is a such an important and respected company with enormous resources is because all their software sucks total ass and is worthless and I bet you could do better in your spare time.

Swing and a miss!

A note to those gushing over ubunto:
I have an old (AMD K6II 450) laptop that came with Win98.

Win98, 2k, and XP will install on it without problems.

Slackware, and Debian install but can't load a gui with out a mouse. I assume this is due to not having a driver built in for the trackpad, I'll eventually find one and load it.

Ubunto just locks up when preparing to install.

Obviously I'm not impressed with Ubunto.

Slackware and Debian assume that you must have a mouse to load a GUI. That's not completely unreasonable. However, a consumer ready OS must be able to load GUI without a pointing device. Then the user (ok, an intelligent user) could find the driver without much trouble.

Windows XP not only includes the driver but automaticly installs and loads it. XP will also load without a pointing device. This is usefull since you can use the keyboard to browse the web to find a driver.

In terms of performance after the install, Slackware and Debian win hands down. If you've ever seen WinXP "running" on a machine with a PII or equivilent with 128mb of RAM, you can guess how slow it is. Ubunto doesn't even load. I'll eventually get around to trying to install Ubunto with a mouse, but locking up with no feedback is completely unaceptable. So the hype about Ubunto being an easy way to use Linux is just hype. Slackware and Debian are easier, and don't claim to be.

Hey, I just gave Vista a spin, and I can say it's definitely faster than...wait, now there's knocking at my door.

The Icelander

Other than gaming, Macs are at least on equal footing with Windows boxes in all respects, if not better. Their switch to Intel will help them on this front as well.

So making a Mac a windows box improves it?
Why not make Mac OS non-proprietary? Make it work on othe Intel machines. That is why MS dominates the market.

I would be interested in numbers showing how many of the recently aquired "Mac OS users" are actually running Mac OS most of the time. Unfortunatly those numbers don't truly exist.

Is it a coincidence that Mac OS numbers spiked with the switch to Windows compatibility? Probably so.

If Apple would figure out that proprietary systems fail in the long run, they could be a true powerhouse in both the hardware and software markets. Untill then they are still using BetaMax.

Really, the concept of standardised replaceable parts was one of the keys to the industrial revolution. Yet some people still can't seem to get out of the 1600s.

muninsfire:

Jeeze. That's what I need on this box to be able to run CAD software

What CAD are you running that takes that? Just curious since my 1gb runs my 3d apps and AutoCAD just fine.

Wish Autodesk could get their act together and code up some OS X programs.

RTFA - the EULA doesn't prohibit benchmarking, it imposes constraints upon publication of benchmark results.

discount sushi: What CAD are you running that takes that? Just curious since my 1gb runs my 3d apps and AutoCAD just fine.

Catia.

And to be fair, it actually needs something like 3GB to run effectively on some of this stuff.

I use Mac anyway. PCs are just glorified gaming consoles, and as soon as Mac works through the transition to Intel chips and consoles upgrade further to better simulate computers, PCs will be totally obsolete.

Most of those that replied here are almost as bad as the author of the article (it appears you read the headline and formed your opinion without actually investigating the claims of the article).

Nowhere in the EULA does it say anything about barring PROPER benchmark testing.
It does however enforce proper benchmarking; requiring documentation, custom source code and identification of hardware and test parameters.

This allows truly independent 3rd party validation of any results. (whether its some trust-fund geek in his grandmothers basement or a fortune 500 POC lab).

This article leads the reader to believe that Microsoft does not allow benchmarking of any kind as if they were hiding something. The information on that link however only requires that anything that affected the results of benchmarking be posted in a public place. If you cant support your results by making this public only then does Microsoft indicate that would be in violation of the EULA.

Is that so bad? Is it wrong to require you prove your claim of performance (rather than say "we tested in our lab and it sucked but we aren't going to prove it to anyone but this independent company" "oh by the way the brother of our CIO owns that independent company and worked in our lab on the test until we needed independent validation").

Oh and that link on the MS site does work in IE7. (how convenient for the biased author).

Don't get me wrong; MS doesn't always have the best product for a particular solution however they do have some products that are decent.


Because many of MS products are geared toward the mass consumer (thus being dumbed down aka user friendly) they have two problems:
-it is difficult to create a blanket security solution that meets both mom and pops internet shopping needs while addressing sons p0rn habit that leads to several malware/virus incubation sites.

-being the most popular with the consumer means you're also the most popular with the haxors. If you're trying to scam bank account information remotely do you focus resources on the software that's installed in 10,000 homes/offices or the software that's installed in 1,000,000 homes/offices.


I am not trying to be pro MS.
My DVR is Redhat. My "leisure but discreet" browser is Firefox (only because its unfamiliar to the GF so she cant snoop). My career revolves around J2EE (non MS) app servers.

I am just pro accuracy.

j0ndas
Hear that turning sound? That my friend is the wheel of reincarnation. People were saying similar things about macs years ago. Heck, with the birth of the Atari people told of the death of the PC. They were wrong and so are you.

Beemer: Anyone have recommendations for a specific player?

I prefer Amarok. It's as close as you can get to Winamp functionality (dynamic mode is cool). XMMS is a bloated joke. I haven't used mplayer that much so I can't comment on it.

"The sheep... er, end users want their PC's to work like their TV's and M$ delivers on that end."

MS delivers? LOL What a joke. How many years has MS promised the changes are "under the hood"?

I jumped ship long ago, switched to the mac. I've never been happier, and yes, apple delievered.

Abelian Groupie

My thoughts exactly. I would switch to Linux in a heartbeat if it offered something more comperable to what I have now. I use a fair amount of Open Source software, I use Firefox, Nvu for HTML editing, I have OpenOffice but don't use it much yet. I also use Opera, and IE only when I MUST. Although I prefer, at this time, to use WMP10 for my media. I'm considering downloading WinAmp or other media software.

I may consider a Mac, but only with Boot Camp.