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(Some Guy)   In what may be seen as an obvious admission to poorly implemented bloatware, Microsoft prohibits benchmarking of Vista OS   (pcworld.idg.com.au) divider line 169
    More: Asinine  
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16941 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Nov 2006 at 9:33 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-11-01 10:21:23 AM
Dr. Frisbee
People should use Linux. Download Ubuntu. They just released the latest version. Very easy even for Windows people to install. Very easy to dual boot too if you're a gamer. Plus using it is mostly just like Windows. Some more advanced stuff is vintage Linux/Unix, but they did a great job of implementing a lot of things into the GUI.

I had to boot my Mac Mini at work into Ubuntu to get some data off of a Qube hard drive. It's not a bad OS. Not nearly as nice or intuitive as OS X, but definitely better than Windows.

I can see a lot of people installing Linux on old hardware for general use, and switching to OS X when they buy a new machine. The problem with Linux as I see it now is that there's no official tech support. If you've got family who can do it for you, or you're a geek yourself, you can manage with a Linux system. But there's something to be said for having that lifeline to the manufacturer.

Also, Apple gets consistently high ratings from Consumer Reports for both hardware and software support.
 
2006-11-01 10:23:28 AM
But but what am I going to test this Geforce 8800 on then?
 
2006-11-01 10:23:31 AM
Hooray, microsoft haters!

I'm sure the reason Bill Gates has gotten so rich and Microsoft is a such an important and respected company with enormous resources is because all their software sucks total ass and is worthless and I bet you could do better in your spare time.
 
2006-11-01 10:23:38 AM
Meh, I'll toss vista on the same dungheap I tossed xp on. For the few things I need MS for, 2K gets-r-done without fuss. Most of the time I'm running Debian Etch anyway (only 1.5 months until the next stable... woot!!)

/Linux = 95% : MS = 5% (and shrinking)
 
2006-11-01 10:23:40 AM
"Several attempts to reach that Web site to see what those conditions are for benchmarking were unsuccessful on Tuesday, as the page for unknown reasons could not be displayed in Internet Explorer 7."


mmmmm hm.
 
2006-11-01 10:23:59 AM
I read the EULA (it is posted above here). It is remarkably easy to understand, and basically requires you to disclose your methods of benchmarking, and that you use an up to date patching of your system and follow normal installation procedures. The penaly of violating the agreement seems to be that Microsoft will in turn test your product and disclose its results. What is the big deal here?
 
2006-11-01 10:24:41 AM
I needed a new machine - the old one was dying. Instead of building a new windows box, I bought a Mac. Hell, there is always Boot Camp.
 
2006-11-01 10:24:43 AM
Benchmarks. One of the reasons that I owe Larry Ellison a cock punch.
 
2006-11-01 10:26:26 AM
Let's look at the requirements (abbreviated):

(1) you must disclose all the information necessary for replication of the tests, including complete and accurate details of your benchmark testing methodology.

(2) you must disclose the date(s) that you conducted the benchmark tests, along with specific version information for all Microsoft software products tested, including the .NET Component;

(3) your benchmark testing was performed using all performance tuning and best practice guidance set forth in the product documentation and/or on Microsoft's support Web sites, and uses the latest updates, patches, and fixes available

(4) it shall be sufficient if you make the disclosures provided for above at a publicly available location such as a Web site, so long as every public disclosure of the results of your benchmark test expressly identifies the public site containing all required disclosures

So...which one is the problem?
 
2006-11-01 10:29:19 AM
BlindMan: I'm sure the reason Bill Gates has gotten so rich and Microsoft is a such an important and respected company with enormous resources is because

...of advertising and government contracts.

I bet you could do better in your spare time.

That would involve having spare time. Which I don't.
 
2006-11-01 10:30:38 AM
I installed Ubuntu, but I got rid of it when I realised that it doesn't have any media player software available for it that comes anywhere near Winamp. If you want to attract people to an operating system, you have to make sure they can do everything they want to be able to do on it, and Linux has got some way to go yet.
 
2006-11-01 10:31:19 AM
OriginalGamer: I'm wondering how well it will run on the laptop I got today, since it came with a rebate for free Windows Vista Ultimate on release...

1.6GHz AMD Turion64 x2
1GB DDR RAM
GeForce Go 6150
120GB SATA HDD


Should run it fairly well.
 
2006-11-01 10:31:49 AM
Who needs this shiite? Buy a Mac and be done with it.

fbrunel.free.fr
 
2006-11-01 10:32:22 AM
I've been running Linux for a while because of shiat like this...but I haven't been suggesting that my clients do the same. Thanks for pushing me one step closer to becoming a Linux evangalist, MS.

Its just so blindingly stupid...people WILL benchmark the thing, anyway. Will MS go after them if they publish the results? Who is in charge of PR at that place, anyhow?
 
2006-11-01 10:34:58 AM
BlindMan
I'm sure the reason Bill Gates has gotten so rich and Microsoft is a such an important and respected company with enormous resources is because all their software sucks total ass and is worthless and I bet you could do better in your spare time.

No. The reason Microsoft is huge is because Bill Gates is a shrewd businessman. Rather than develop his OS from scratch, he licensed it from Apple in exchange for MacWrite and MacPaint. Rather than sell Windows to IBM, he licensed it. Instant revenue stream instead of one-off payment. Instead of developing a competitor to a whole bunch of stuff (Netscape, Quicktime and Real, DOS), he bought smaller companies.

Bill Gates is rich for the same reason Rockefeller was rich. It's not that he did anything better than anybody else, he just did things in a more profitable way. And if you're measuring success in dollars, that's all that matters.
 
2006-11-01 10:35:49 AM
"2006-11-01 09:54:36 AM Avilion

Thanks for the explanation, all.

By the way, Flippity, yes, I'll admit, I know almost nothing about certain aspects of today's technology. I wish that were different, which is why I like to ask questions :)"

I only meant that the search for its meaning could be found by google faster and better than here.
 
2006-11-01 10:36:33 AM
jcaustin: So...which one is the problem?

The one where it says "MS is not responsible for retards that can't understand these terms."
 
2006-11-01 10:36:40 AM
I installed Ubuntu, but I got rid of it when I realised that it doesn't have any media player software available for it that comes anywhere near Winamp. If you want to attract people to an operating system, you have to make sure they can do everything they want to be able to do on it, and Linux has got some way to go yet.

Most of the better programs need to be installed off the internet. The basic Ubuntu package lacks things like media plug ins. Just do a quick search in their wiki, and you'll have everything humming. There are several really good media players available for Ubuntu.
 
2006-11-01 10:38:06 AM
AmazingRuss: Who is in charge of PR at that place, anyhow?


abclocal.go.com
 
2006-11-01 10:39:22 AM
I would care about the EULA if I thought that it would, in any way, prevent me from doing what I want. Oh sure, it may tell me I'm not allowed to do it but, technically, I'm not allowed to exceed 65 on the highway, rip my DVDs, play pool for money and any number of things I do all the time.

Just be an asshole. If enough of us ignore stupid rules like this then they become practically unenforcable.
 
2006-11-01 10:39:51 AM
cranched - "Does it matter? I'm going to be running it inside virtual machine software anyway."

No you're not. The EULA prohibits that too.




And btw Icelander, vista runs ok out of VMware WS 5.51 on my xp and fc6 host OS'es.. As good as an xp vm anyway..
 
2006-11-01 10:41:04 AM
AmazingRuss, you really shouldn't take Fark headlines so seriously.
 
2006-11-01 10:41:51 AM
The Icelander

Bill Gates is rich for the same reason Rockefeller was rich. It's not that he did anything better than anybody else, he just did things in a more profitable way. And if you're measuring success in dollars, that's all that matters.

I hate to break this to you, but if you are doing something in a more profitable way, you're also doing it a better way, profits are just an index, really.
 
2006-11-01 10:41:57 AM
OriginalGamer

I'm wondering how well it will run on the laptop I got today, since it came with a rebate for free Windows Vista Ultimate on release...

1.6GHz AMD Turion64 x2
1GB DDR RAM
GeForce Go 6150
120GB SATA HDD


It should run just fine on your laptop. I'm typing this on a very similar spec laptop running Vista RC1.
 
2006-11-01 10:43:54 AM
BlindMan: you're also doing it a better way

From a stockholder POV perhaps, doesn't necessarily mean the software itself is better.
 
2006-11-01 10:44:05 AM
Dr. Frisbee

Call me when Ubuntu can play games (no, Tron, KPoker and Frozen Bubble don't count) at Windows speeds or better, and when my Radeon card actually works without trashing my install. I'd even settle for just CS:S, Generals, COD2 and UT2004 (which already works in linux, so that's 1 out of 4).

Oh, and when OpenOffice can actually *import* Word docs, not hopelessly mangle them in a failed attempt at importing. And Flash 9 (yes, I know the player is coming, I mean the player and editor).

That day, I'd switch and not look back since Ubuntu is definitely already a superior product. Dual-booting is a pain in the arse, it's not worth my time to switch back and forth. Yes, it's only 2.5 minutes but why wait 2.5 minutes when I can wait zero and stay in Windows?
 
2006-11-01 10:44:37 AM
BlindMan
I'm sure the reason Bill Gates has gotten so rich and Microsoft is a such an important and respected company with enormous resources is because all their software sucks total ass and is worthless and I bet you could do better in your spare time.

Yes that's right. The success of a company depends only on the quality of the product. It doesn't have anything to do with marketing, cost, or in this case, INERTIA. Most people HATE MS products but they are afraid to try and learn anything else because they have become conditioned to believe that all computer experiences are terrible, and since they already know windows software what is the point in changing?

I'll go ahead and make the leap...

This is very similar to Republicans spending 30 years convincing rural poor white americans that government can't help them, so vote for Republicans because at least they'll cut your taxes so you'll have more money. Of course they neglect to mention that everything else in your life will cost more with them running the show, so you have less money.

...which allows me to leap back to...

Windows has also outsold Apple products because it is "cheaper". However, if you look past the initial cost of equipment you'll find that the long-term expenses of the Apple are quite lower. I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass, that is based on research into the costs associated with maintaining large networks of WinTel PCs and Apples. So maybe a person here or there doesn't have a problem with their PC (I'm sure some douchebag will reply that his PC never crashes) but overall the costs are much higher.

/writing on win2K
//never crashes
 
2006-11-01 10:44:40 AM
Abelian Groupie: I installed Ubuntu, but I got rid of it when I realised that it doesn't have any media player software available for it that comes anywhere near Winamp. If you want to attract people to an operating system, you have to make sure they can do everything they want to be able to do on it, and Linux has got some way to go yet.

Linux has some decent media players, they just don't have one that is as multifaceted as winamp. XMMS, mplayer (with a good plugin pack), and amarok together do a pretty good job.
 
2006-11-01 10:45:16 AM
If Linux Geeks spent 1/10th the time reading the Windows documentation that they spend dorking around with Linux, they'd know how it works and it would stop crashing on them.

And OOOHHHH! LOOOKEY! MS Software checks to make sure you bought it! We Hates Microsoft forever! HAHAH! I'm 2L33T4U!
 
2006-11-01 10:51:20 AM
zorak8me: Windows has also outsold Apple products because it is "cheaper". However, if you look past the initial cost of equipment you'll find that the long-term expenses of the Apple are quite lower. I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass, that is based on research into the costs associated with maintaining large networks of WinTel PCs and Apples. So maybe a person here or there doesn't have a problem with their PC (I'm sure some douchebag will reply that his PC never crashes) but overall the costs are much higher.

The costs associated with maintaining large networks of computers and maintaining home computers are entirely different. In particular, large networks tend to spend a lot more money dealing with malware and purchasing support. You can see how something like that would skew things toward Apple.
 
2006-11-01 10:56:07 AM
edgy eft ftw.
 
2006-11-01 10:56:15 AM
DRTFA and have no clue what subby is saying. Tech people- DIAF.
 
2006-11-01 10:56:28 AM
OMG M$ IS TEH EVILZ! I use windows 3.0 and it does EVERYTHING I need it to do, and no one should need a later version. and if you can't compile a linux kernel, you have no business using a computer anyway.
 
2006-11-01 10:56:37 AM
Abelian Groupie: I installed Ubuntu, but I got rid of it when I realised that it doesn't have any media player software available for it that comes anywhere near Winamp.

My 12-year-old is biatching about this on the machine I gave him with Ubuntu on it. Anyone have recommendations for a specific player?
 
2006-11-01 10:58:09 AM
The Icelander:
Rather than develop his OS from scratch, he licensed it from Apple in exchange for MacWrite and MacPaint. Rather than sell Windows to IBM, he licensed it. Instant revenue stream instead of one-off payment. Instead of developing a competitor to a whole bunch of stuff (Netscape, Quicktime and Real, DOS), he bought smaller companies.


Holy farking crap someone needs a fact check as well as an industry history lesson.
 
2006-11-01 10:59:29 AM
I'm still using W2Kpro. There was no reason to go to XP, and there is even far less reason to go to Vista.

Win2K is still the best version of Windows.

recommended 2GB of ram needed to run this bloatware

Does anyone besides me miss the days when an entire OS would fit in about 32KB of ROM? I wish it were still that way. Although these days they could use NVRAM instead of ROM, so you could update the software without having to swap chips.
 
2006-11-01 11:00:30 AM
Apple is also at a disadvantage because they do a lot of custom design, both inside and out. Also, Apple makes a pretty big profit margin on its machines, on the order of 30%, which they use to develop new software and hardware. To see what an Apple computer would be if it were made by Dell, cut about 25% off the purchase price. That extra premium is what you're spending on the OS and included software, which is some of the best in the world.
 
2006-11-01 11:00:37 AM
Dubya's_Coke_Dealer - If Linux Geeks spent 1/10th the time reading the Windows documentation that they spend dorking around with Linux, they'd know how it works and it would stop crashing on them.

I don't try to rag on MS too much.. I don't like em really, but they're kind of a necessary evil.. I prefer being a linux geek cuz I don't like paying shiatloads of $$ for software, when there's a similar FREE alternative!

My XP box runs fine, because I'm not all over p2p, porn, and warez sites with it. Sites that have a much higher concentration of malicious html/trojans/etc than normal. THAT'S what kills an MS OS faster than anything else. My linux box is immune to all that shiat.
 
2006-11-01 11:01:15 AM
DeanMoriarty

So seriously, what else do you peeps wanna know? I'll ask the pertinent ones, and at least get some insight into these things.


Did you clean up your room before heading off to school?
 
2006-11-01 11:02:17 AM
I don't think I've seen one word used so many times in an article, so one more time for good measure:

BENCHMARK!!!!
 
2006-11-01 11:04:18 AM
I hate to break this to you, but if you are doing something in a more profitable way, you're also doing it a better way, profits are just an index, really.

So armed robbery is the height of better business practices???
 
2006-11-01 11:04:44 AM
c0dem0nkey
Holy farking crap someone needs a fact check as well as an industry history lesson.

1) He did get the source for Mac OS 1 in exchange for developing MacWrite and MacPaint.
2) He did buy the precursors to DOS and IE and WMP from other companies.
3) He did license Windows to IBM rather than sell it to them outright, thus creating an revenue stream instead of a lump-sum payment

Windows also held the advantage of being the "work" machine, which made more than a few people choose it over Macs. (Including my dad, though Boot Camp made him buy a Mini not too long ago.)
 
2006-11-01 11:06:20 AM
BlindMan

No, the reason Gates is so rich is that he got in on the ground floor when IBM waded into the PC market. Meanwhile, Apple was busy giving itself a repeating cock punch. Long story short, DOS (and later Windows) became widespread, not unlike a disease, and now everyone uses it and won't switch because it's "good enough," also because a lot of businesses have heaps of legacy code written using DOS or Windoze that they still need to use and will never go away. Another example of something that sucks total ass but will never go away is the QWERTY keyset.
 
2006-11-01 11:08:53 AM
Oathed
Another example of something that sucks total ass but will never go away is the QWERTY keyset.

Another: VHS
 
2006-11-01 11:09:09 AM
There is no IRF-12 support. This needs a kanjified tcl/tk and some changes to hertified sub-systems. Tcl 12.4 has proper bi-code support included so this problem will go away soon. Character escaping in the low level CTCP protocol is not done everywhere, but it *is* done for SED encrypted messages, if you can believe that. If you wish to configure Message channels then you have to do them by hand in the rc file. One day I will completely redo the configuration system....
 
2006-11-01 11:09:29 AM
My XP box runs fine, because I'm not all over p2p, porn, and warez sites with it. Sites that have a much higher concentration of malicious html/trojans/etc than normal. THAT'S what kills an MS OS faster than anything else.

Non-MS software kills an MS OS, too. I can get XP to blue screen, even they MS made it a little harder to do that than with previous Windows releases, if I install certain software. I wonder why MS can't make their damn OS a little more resilient. I mean, misbehaving applications should not be able to bring down the entire system. As an example, I cite Solaris. I *cannot* crash Solaris, no matter how hard I try, unless I do something unbelievably stupid like delete a critical system file or unplug the hard drive with the root partition on it. Why can't Windows be like that?
 
2006-11-01 11:09:59 AM

There is no IRF-12 support. This needs a kanjified tcl/tk and some changes to hertified sub-systems. Tcl 12.4 has proper bi-code support included so this problem will go away soon. Character escaping in the low level CTCP protocol is not done everywhere, but it *is* done for SED encrypted messages, if you can believe that. If you wish to configure Message channels then you have to do them by hand in the rc file. One day I will completely redo the configuration system....


Pssshh... tell me about it!
 
2006-11-01 11:10:16 AM
Whatever. I don't consider M$ the great evil the Linux and Mac elitists do because 1. They keep me employed and 2. If it is such terrible software why does the majority keep using it? The sheep... er, end users want their PC's to work like their TV's and M$ delivers on that end. Flame on if you must but until someone delivers a cheap/free alternative the masses can use nothing will change.

\yes, i answered my own question
 
2006-11-01 11:11:12 AM
I can crash IE with a well-constructed (and XHTML 1.0 valid) web page.
 
2006-11-01 11:15:03 AM
Beemer Have a look at XMMS. From the description:

Versatile X audio player
X MultiMedia System is a player for various audio formats, with a customizable interface based on X/GTK+.

It's able to read and play:
* Audio MPEG layer 1, 2, and 3 (with mpg123 plug-in),
* Ogg Vorbis files (with the Ogg Vorbis plug-in),
* CD Audio (with CDAudio plug-in), with CDDB support,
* WAV, RAW, AU (with internal wav plug-in and MikMod plug-in),
* MOD, XM, S3M, and other module formats (with MikMod plug-in),
* .cin files, id Software.
It has eSound, OSS, and disk writer support for outputting sound.

It looks almost the same as famous Winamp, and includes those neat features like general purpose, visualization and effect plug-ins, several of which come bundled, then spectrum analyzer, oscilloscope, skins support, and of course, a playlist window.


Just don't forget to grab the plugins that you need/want.
 
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