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(BBC)   Washington does to RAM manufacturers what it refuses to do to Big Oil   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 89
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27475 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Oct 2006 at 11:59 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-10-13 10:16:33 AM
subby

Do you know how many inquiries there have been into the oil industry in teh last 10 years?
 
2006-10-13 10:21:47 AM
Other chipmakers fined as a result of that investigation were Elphida, Infineon and Hynix.

That would be Elpida, dumbass.
 
2006-10-13 10:45:05 AM
This is SO-DUMM
 
2006-10-13 11:27:44 AM
Who is BIG OIL, exactly?

Those people who make their living and their fortunes drilling for dead dinosaurs so you can fill your gas tank? The people who make it possible for you to pile your kids in the minivan for soccer practice? SO you can drive your monster pickup truck to the corner to get some milk? The people who provide a product that you voluntarily consume? The people who provide the product that you could voluntarily NOT consume?
 
2006-10-13 11:36:01 AM
submitter: Washington does to RAM manufacturers what it refuses to do to Big Oil it has done repeatedly to Big Oil, without finding a single shred of evidence that there is anything other than good old supply and demand at work.

Fixed it for you.

/smitty either needs a cockpunch or a copy of Economics for Dummies
//Occam's Razor - It's a good thing
 
2006-10-13 12:02:13 PM
If Paul McCartney doesn't care, I don't care.
 
2006-10-13 12:02:59 PM
our government is not truckin', it's going down a series of tubes
 
2006-10-13 12:04:52 PM
MasterThief: The supply and demand argument becomes invalid when the oil companies manipulate supply to boost profit.
 
2006-10-13 12:04:56 PM
Skwidd
Who is BIG OIL, exactly?

and for that matter, who's LITTLE oil?
 
2006-10-13 12:05:09 PM
I just LOVE seeing conservatives bendover backwards defending these farking robber barons.

/These assholes don't care about you? They would steal the pennies from your farking eyes.
 
2006-10-13 12:05:35 PM
MasterThief

Next you will be telling us that there's not pot of Oil Corporations at the end of the rainbow.
 
2006-10-13 12:06:08 PM
i blame george jefferson

weezee!
 
2006-10-13 12:09:16 PM
price fixing? maybe they should look at HP and Apple. I've always wondered how much descretion retailers have had with their pricing. I'm thinking it's not much. But hey, what do I know (not much)
 
2006-10-13 12:09:46 PM
SOoooo we are going to investigate countries for price fixing? Wow... nice title. I guess one mucked up invasion in Iraq is not enough. We have to investigate all our "friends" in the Middle East and fine them too? How about utilizing electiric cars and hybrids to decrease our demand and tell the Arabs and Chavez to stick it where the sun does not shine. We have had the technology for 10 years... both parties have been bought off.... I am DISGUSTED WITH BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMS ON THIS ISSUE. Big Oil for the Reps... Auto Labor Unions for the Dems... all taking campaign contributions... all money whores!
 
2006-10-13 12:10:28 PM
Skwidd: Society CANNOT function without oil so your argument does not work either.
 
2006-10-13 12:12:03 PM
Big Oil Makes 10 to 20% on their sales... not 300% Like OPEC... the price of gas is going up because of demand and OPEC price fixing via output controls. If you want to blame anyone... try our politicians and the public for driving Hummers and not fuel efficient cars!
 
2006-10-13 12:12:28 PM
Man, the conservatives made it into this thread early.

Silly conservatives.

P.S. MasterThief: That report is on post-Katrina manipulation. It does not cover the rise in prices that preceded increased demand. ;)
 
2006-10-13 12:13:23 PM
That's because the prez is George Bush Jr, not Andy Grove
 
2006-10-13 12:13:37 PM
so does this mean that big hard drives with more ram in them will become cheaper?


/runs
 
2006-10-13 12:13:43 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the idiots defending the petro industry.
 
2006-10-13 12:15:28 PM
drg8r

Don't just blame the people who drive Hummers. So many people are sitting in traffic in their dipshiat mobile when they could really find a more fuel-efficient way. I'd go into lots of ways to reduce oil dependency, but our computers would run out of RAM before we could scroll down the list.
 
2006-10-13 12:15:39 PM
What should I do if big oil hits my anus?
 
2006-10-13 12:16:53 PM
Cast

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the idiots defending the petro industry.


The best way around this is to laugh while a friend repeatedly kicks you in your genetalia.
 
2006-10-13 12:17:45 PM
(insert Romero Pic #0001248772653 here)
People use the word "Big" to demonize things. It's used to make something threatening by using the innate fear in human beings of things that are larger than they are. Not to mention the psychosexual undertones.

Big Oil.
Big Box Stores (as opposed to the conical ones?)
Big Tobacco
Big Government
Big Mamma

Success is a curse, hope to Big Sky Fairy you don't achieve anything. Or, you'll be Big, too.

Freud would be proud.
 
2006-10-13 12:17:51 PM
LANshark
What should I do if big oil hits my anus?


Invest?
 
2006-10-13 12:18:34 PM
It's not BIG OIL, you morans. It's the OPEC cartel, go look up the word 'cartel' and you'll understand why there is automatically price-fixing when it comes to crude oil.

Exxon, Texaco, etc. are not comparable to makers of RAM chips. they are not the source of the key commodity, whereas the chipmakers are. Exxon & Texaco are more like the company that sells you the computer.

/of course, that's not to say they aren't scamming us in any way, just that they don't fix the price of the commodity.
 
2006-10-13 12:19:32 PM
WayneKerr

I don't disagree with anything you say... but the title of the thread... flame bate that it is... implied that Congress could do something significant with prices and oil... the article and you both express the validity of the actual article. Your point is valid and well taken.
 
2006-10-13 12:19:40 PM
MasterThief price fixing exists in markets where supply is artificially manipulated because there is a lack of competitors for those services or products. If there were a competitor then you'd be selling for brand value alone, and whatever people associate with that brand. I drive to work past a BP that is always 1cent more than the Sunoco next to it, the facilities of the BP are far better and much cleaner, a penny does nothing to harm me when I like to get a drink that is very cold instead of moderately refrigerated. However, the price of the gas itself rises and falls on the flimsiest of reasons, and is very well fixed and maintained that through government and general corporate strategies.

Nothing illegal about it, mostly because in a monopoly that is your right to do so, however, it is still pretty damn unethical and any government officials who are serving oil companies to gain them profits should be shot. Oil executives should stop being jerks as well, I'll still buy it if you tell me you're a business and are looking to maintain a proper flow of oil over a number of years for a good price. Being in the pocket of those executives and spending almost nothing on alternative energy sources though is not right.
 
2006-10-13 12:21:27 PM
drg8r

Your point was valid, and I know that you were targeting the "Hummer Mentality". I just needed an excuse to make my RAM joke. You know... the one that wasn't funny.
 
2006-10-13 12:22:58 PM
Animatronik: /of course, that's not to say they aren't scamming us in any way, just that they don't fix the price of the commodity.


Right but this is the BS response that allows them to make extreme profits off of OPEC's decisions. Look at profitability from the Iranian nationalization of the oil industry. OPEC has never been a problem because the formerly 'seven sisters' were always able to be ahead of the profitabilty curve regardless of OPEC. Better than average profits is the key to capitalization.
 
2006-10-13 12:24:41 PM
Hot Carl To Go
Do you know how many inquiries there have been into the oil industry in teh last 10 years?

Yea, and the last one the people testifying weren't even sworn in, so they could lie all they wanted to without fear of purjury.

/not smitty
 
2006-10-13 12:24:41 PM
LANshark - get the Tom Cruise Mission Insertable Butt Plug to protect your anus from big oil.
 
2006-10-13 12:24:57 PM
WayneKerr

Point is well taken. You are correct. The title of the link implied that Congress could correct our gasoline problems with a congressional probe... fat chance. Your concerns on memory are valid but we are not likely to lose memory if the result would be the closing of memory factories in Taiwan....
 
2006-10-13 12:28:23 PM
I guess the tech companies aren't slick enough to get away with it.
 
2006-10-13 12:28:33 PM
WayneKerr

The pot of oil companies at the end of the rainbow is there, it's just that the rainbow is a prismatic diffraction of light caused by a thin layer of petroleum on the surface of the ocean.
 
2006-10-13 12:30:30 PM
Given the fairly well documented cases of price fixing in by RAM manufacturers (including guilty pleas by executives + record fines), this is not surprising.

See, e.g., this.

Sadly all the price fixing in the oil industry is done by OPEC, and DOJ hasn't figured out a way to enforce US antitrust laws against OPEC yet.
 
2006-10-13 12:30:57 PM
drg8r

I hear what you are saying, and you are saying it well. I will follow your advice and not worry about my computer running out of... wait. What was I talking about?
 
2006-10-13 12:32:52 PM
I don't think many people have read The Prize by Daniel Yergin. fwiw, I wish more would.
 
2006-10-13 12:35:28 PM
LANshark: I've always wondered how much descretion retailers have had with their pricing.

Can't talk about HP, but with Apple they had (and for all I know may still have) something called "Minimum Advertised Price."

In effect, all retailers aren't allowed to advertise selling the units below a fixed price. Best Buy famously violated this clause time and again and that's why you'll see Apple products available for 6 months, gone for 3 years, then available for 9 months. MAP was created to give the Apple dealer network a chance to sell units. The big boys were, theoretically, on an even keel with the little boys. Apple needed to keep the dealer network happy so they could keep all customers happy handling service calls & in-/out-of-warranty work.

Keep in mind the key word here is Advertised. So long as they didn't advertise the unit below MAP, they were fine. They could have an in-store special. For online vendors, they could have a lower price for non-anonymous customers. What most large vendors did is throw in a bunch of extra stuff to effectively get the perceived price below MAP. Free printer, free RAM, larger HD, that kind of thing.

MAP may be gone, since Apple doesn't care that much about the dealer network anymore. In-/out-of-warranty service are handled by Apple directly. AppleCare (can) handle other forms of service calls. And of course Apple Stores directly compete with the old dealers.
 
2006-10-13 12:35:40 PM
My name is Oil.

/groaning at myself for that one.
 
2006-10-13 12:37:43 PM
sh0x

The pot of oil companies at the end of the rainbow is there, it's just that the rainbow is a prismatic diffraction of light caused by a thin layer of petroleum on the surface of the ocean.

Oh good.

Yeah, but I hear that the oil is put on the surface of the ocean to help reflect the light away so that the fish don't get sunburned.
 
2006-10-13 12:40:58 PM
Memory prices have been going through the roof the last couple of months. I think they are just now leveling off and hopefully soon they will drop again.

This past spring 2 gigs of PC4000 ddr was as low as the $120 range. Now its over $220. I have no idea why memory prices fluctuate like they do.

And yes oil companies should be investigated, even more so than the memory manufacturers.

Of course if we had someone running the country who believed in fair market practices, and didn't just play lip service to that idea while bending over to kiss the feet of corporations it might help a bit.
 
2006-10-13 12:41:35 PM
Hot Carl To Go

Subby
Do you know how many inquiries there have been into the [slash]oil industry[/slash] memory industry in teh last 10 years?
 
2006-10-13 12:42:48 PM
"Big Oil"!?!?!

Exxon is the world's 14th largest oil company. Most of the world's oil is produced by state owned entities. No where in anti-trust law is there a belief that the 14th largest producer could consipre with a smaller entity to exert market power. Further, there is no provision in U.S. law for sanctioning the activities of a foreign state owned entity.

In short - suck it libs. "Big Oil" is a creation of the socialist state you so dream of.
 
2006-10-13 12:43:32 PM
Well, if RAM manufacturers become both president and vice president of the US, things would be different. What did you expect when putting oilmen in the white house? Of course there's going to be graft. Big surprise. Cue Romero why dont you.
 
2006-10-13 12:43:56 PM
MasterThief

submitter: Washington does to RAM manufacturers what it refuses to do to Big Oil it has done repeatedly to Big Oil, without finding a single shred of evidence that there is anything other than good old supply and demand at work.


That's the funniest thing I've read today.
 
2006-10-13 12:45:23 PM
Congressional investigations fall into four categories:

1. Those intended as a public relations ploy to address a disgruntled public (the issue itself doesn't matter as long as the investigation appeals to the largest possible voting bloc).

2. Those motivated by partisan politics (the issue itself doesn't matter as long as the investigation embarrasses the other party, whichever party it may be).

3. Those intended to create a record to justify a pre-determined conclusion (the issue itself does matter, but the outcome is known in advance).

4. Once in awhile, those intended as an actual fact-finding investigation.

This one is probably in category 1.
 
2006-10-13 12:45:58 PM
oh come'on. RAM is sooooo much cheaper than it was 6 frickin' years ago. Anyone remember what a 126mb chip cost in 00'? Yea you can get at 256 cheaper than that now?
 
2006-10-13 12:47:14 PM
Hey, I have a question that someone can hopefully answer for me.


Q: If companies agree to pay fines for price fixing, then the government gets the money. However, it was the consumers that paid for the difference between fair market value and the fixed price. Shouldnt we, the consumer, get our share of the fine (meaning the companies should pay both the difference in value AND government procecution costs, PLUS any additional punitive damages)
 
2006-10-13 12:48:02 PM
Remember, when you attack the oil industry you're not just attacking the big guys in suits..but the rest of us as well.

Well service companies, Cementers, Wireline, all sorts of maintenance and fabrication industries..ect.

Research Lloydminster Alberta, my place of livin'

The people here are good honest hard working individuals. We do a good job..from the consultants who constantly bother everyone on the rigs to the roughneck rigpigs who are working harder than ever to make sure you can drive your SUV.

Not everyone in the oil industry is a money-grubbing suit. Remember that for every insult you hurl at big oil you also hurl one at people here in Lloydminster, people just trying to get by and carve themselves out a little slice of life.

Now I know a few people are ignorant enough to say "Get a new job" It's just not that easy in the world today. I came from Thunder Bay, Ontario..some of you may know it some might not..Go tell those people there that were laid off from the mills that have to work shiat jobs at call centres to get a new job.

Getting a new job isn't always an option.
 
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