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(YouTube)   Tribute to our troops (with a great soundtrack)   (youtube.com ) divider line
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1951 clicks; posted to Video » on 12 Oct 2006 at 10:15 AM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-10-12 11:42:54 AM  
This will have no effect on my unwavering support for death and destruction.

\Pillage
\\Burn
\\Then Rape (Cause everything is more romantic by candlelight)
 
2006-10-12 11:52:38 AM  
Headso and little_wing

Alot of these guys are unable to get out, due to stop loss, and don't want their life ruined by going to jail. Hell, many of them have families that count on them for support.

But dont let those little facts bother you. Just skip to the end, call them baby killers and spit on them, right?

Ok, maybe you dont want to go that far, but please keep in mind that alot of these guys join up to help defend their country, or perhaps to help better themselves by learning a trade. Instead, now they are overseas, away from their family and trust, given a choice they'd rather be home with their wife, kids, parents etc...

You can hate the Admin all you want, but dont bring your hate for the admin onto the troops.
 
2006-10-12 11:56:39 AM  
Headso,

yeah i guess, talking points are usually right on target with the truth...


Not sure what your getting at. You asked why people support the troops, I told you because some want to keep their morale high.

You countered with some unrelated comment. What answer would satisfy you?
 
2006-10-12 11:58:22 AM  
Headso
Conscientious objectors in this day and age wouldn't be shot and if you had a large number of people calling out the illegality of this military action jail time is unlikely.

What, because organizing a large-scale mutiny is as simple as posting a few fliers and creating an e-mail list?
Military personnel don't have the same rights to protest that civilians do.

That is beside the point though, for these guys the consequences are moot, just going over to Iraq can get you killed and these guys don't seem to mind that.

How the hell is that a moot point?
You're basically saying, well between these two scenarios:
A) Being killed in action
and
B) Being shot/imprisoned for treason and being disgraced back home with no reparations to their families

the obvious choice is B??
 
2006-10-12 11:59:22 AM  
Headso

At what point in U.S. history has the military refused to fight? What makes you think that will happen if you spit on the troops?
 
2006-10-12 12:00:21 PM  
headslap: Alot of these guys are unable to get out, due to stop loss, and don't want their life ruined by going to jail. Hell, many of them have families that count on them for support.


I'm aware of this.

But dont let those little facts bother you. Just skip to the end, call them baby killers and spit on them, right?

Didn't say that. Wouldn't do that.

Ok, maybe you dont want to go that far, but please keep in mind that alot of these guys join up to help defend their country, or perhaps to help better themselves by learning a trade. Instead, now they are overseas, away from their family and trust, given a choice they'd rather be home with their wife, kids, parents etc...

Yep.

You can hate the Admin all you want, but dont bring your hate for the admin onto the troops.

Right.


All I'm saying, is the 'support the troops' thing is doublethink. It doesn't really make sense. I hope they get out okay, and I know most of them are good people. But really, why don't we 'support the troops' when it's the other side? How come we're allowed to delineate between the war and the people fighting it when it's our side, and not the other way round?
 
2006-10-12 12:01:57 PM  
Thank you troops for all the killing!

You are doing a great job.

Kill kill kill...let Allah sort em out.

Thanks you for taking out Saddam, sonofabiatch was knockin on my door, sayin sutff like "all your freedoms are mine!"

Thanks you Canada for staying out of this garbage.
 
2006-10-12 12:02:20 PM  
headslap: don't want their life ruined by going to jail.

This logic I don't get, they will work and live in an extremely dangerous country where they could be killed, that would kind of ruin your life not to mention the psychological problems...

You can hate the Admin all you want, but dont bring your hate for the admin onto the troops.

It isnt hate, the citenzenry should be supporting the troops to stand up to the administration. We all should stand up and say:

"no! you will not send these guys to jail for not wanting to fight in your little money grab"

put that on your yellow ribbon, or a shortened version I guess...
 
2006-10-12 12:06:41 PM  
Chester Fields: At what point in U.S. history has the military refused to fight?

vietnam, many refused to fight...
 
2006-10-12 12:06:57 PM  
But really, why don't we 'support the troops' when it's the other side? How come we're allowed to delineate between the war and the people fighting it when it's our side, and not the other way round?

Is someone telling you that you are not allowed to do something? Who? And please don't say 'society', be more specific.
 
2006-10-12 12:08:28 PM  
Headso,

The military did not refuse to fight in Vietnam. Try again. Justify your comment. Why do you think the military will refuse to fight if you don't support them?
 
2006-10-12 12:10:40 PM  
I support the war...not the troops

...the song and video are simplistic!

/are we winning?
 
2006-10-12 12:12:32 PM  
little_wing
But really, why don't we 'support the troops' when it's the other side? How come we're allowed to delineate between the war and the people fighting it when it's our side, and not the other way round?

I think the whole 'support the troops' just means two different things to the people that support the war, vs. people that don't.
For people that support the war, supporting the troops means just that... trying to keep their spirit high so they can 'win' the war.
For people that don't support the war, supporting the troops means wishing them the best until such time that we can finally get them the hell out of there.

So, I don't see it as doublethink. And you're certainly allowed to be just as concerned for the people on the other side while working toward getting our own guys home safely.

It just seems like the whole 'support the troops' thing grew out of the accusation that people that were against the war were somehow hurting the troops... which is completely asinine.
 
2006-10-12 12:13:13 PM  
Chester Fields: The military did not refuse to fight in Vietnam.

We had an unprecedented amount of defectors and draft dodgers, I don't see how you can debate that fact...

Why do you think the military will refuse to fight if you don't support them?

As I said in an earlier post, we should support them to tell the admin to eat a dick on fighting in Iraq... But we don't, we support them and their actions in following the orders coming from the top. ...
 
2006-10-12 12:13:19 PM  
Hey dialectic, what does dialectic mean? I can't figure it out for the life of me.
 
2006-10-12 12:16:15 PM  
Chester Fields

You are a smart individual who uses the internets, just google it!
 
2006-10-12 12:18:51 PM  
Perpetual_Confusion: So, I don't see it as doublethink. And you're certainly allowed to be just as concerned for the people on the other side while working toward getting our own guys home safely.


That's fine with me.
 
2006-10-12 12:23:38 PM  
little_wing
That's fine with me.

And come to think of it, it would be interesting if you put together a little video montage of Iraqis and set it to some cheesy music. That'd probably create a nice little 'discussion' here on fark.
 
2006-10-12 12:23:58 PM  
We had an unprecedented amount of defectors and draft dodgers, I don't see how you can debate that fact...

I'm not, stick to your topic. Draft dodgers and defectors did not stop the military from fighting in Vietnam, and the war went on for a decade. Awful choice. You can't justify your comment because you haven't thought it through.

I anticipate more B.S.
 
2006-10-12 12:25:27 PM  
Perpetual_Confusion: And come to think of it, it would be interesting if you put together a little video montage of Iraqis and set it to some cheesy music. That'd probably create a nice little 'discussion' here on fark.


I think someone would track me down and kill me :)
 
2006-10-12 12:26:03 PM  
Dialectic,

I have, and none of it makes sense to me
 
2006-10-12 12:26:13 PM  
We had an unprecedented amount of defectors and draft dodgers, I don't see how you can debate that fact...

defectors=Abandoned the military, on longer part of the military.

draft dodgers=Never became a part of the military.

I don't see how you can include them in the military.
 
2006-10-12 12:30:08 PM  
Chester Fields:

stick to your topic.

yes please let's stick to it. which was the whole second part of my post, the one you didn't bother with...

Vietnam, and the war went on for a decade. Awful choice.

Vietnam was why we went to an all volunteer army because of the fact that so many people defected, dodged the draft or protested it because they were going to be drafted. Changing the way our armed services worked at a fundamental level suggests it wasn't a non issue like you claim it to be...
 
2006-10-12 12:34:23 PM  
little_wing
I think someone would track me down and kill me :)

ha!
Yeah, that's probably true, unfortunately.
And if it was set to that god-awful 'Freedom isn't Free' song, the irony would probably cause some heads to explode.
 
2006-10-12 12:34:58 PM  
Headso,

War is baaaahd! War is baaaahd! You have no idea what you are talking about.
 
2006-10-12 12:37:40 PM  
what's with the guy praying to the rock
 
2006-10-12 12:40:26 PM  
Chester Fields: War is baaaahd! War is baaaahd!


Reduced to typing gibberish, nice...
 
2006-10-12 12:43:03 PM  
Reduced to typing gibberish, nice...

Why not? you did.
 
2006-10-12 12:47:11 PM  
Chester Fields: Why not? you did.

when?
 
2006-10-12 12:47:13 PM  
Think what what you want to think. Troops are baby killers. They are there because they wanted to join just so they could have the opportunity to kill, rape, pillage, etc. Please, think more along these lines. It amuses me. Because in the end, it all comes back to you. Maybe you skipped a vote here or there. Maybe you didn't feel like doing your share to ensure that enough people voting felt the same way you do. Hell, even if you're in another country, maybe you just didn't want to go to the trouble to try and influence the world around you. It amuses me, because now, here- anonymous and safe on Fark you can let spew the sewage that you consider righteous thought on the internets without any blame whatsoever.
Thank God you don't believe in God, or your mind would explode from the irony.
Because I know you are the type that enjoys pointing fingers, all I say is this: be careful pointing them, one day they might just get bitten off by someone as unenlightened as myself.
 
2006-10-12 12:48:31 PM  
Then again, I could have simplified that entire previous post by just saying:
"Shut up, hippies."
 
2006-10-12 12:54:46 PM  
TheSand: Then again, I could have simplified that entire previous post by just saying:
"Shut up, hippies."



You have a brilliant mind, you know that?
 
2006-10-12 01:02:08 PM  
TheSand

My Idol for the Day.

/your Certificate is in the mail.
 
2006-10-12 01:09:13 PM  
got back from Fallujah in Jan.

Did not sign up for fighting
 
2006-10-12 01:23:43 PM  
Unfortunate that so many people do not care about the lives of fellow Americans.

Thanks for your service Whateva_
 
2006-10-12 01:43:26 PM  
little_wing and Headso

Im just lumping your guys posts together because your essentially along the same line of view. I f i say something that obviously doesnt apply to you, then disregard, its for the other.

As to "All I'm saying, is the 'support the troops' thing is doublethink."

Not true, you can support them but not what they are forced to do. Send care packages, or just a thank you for your service or even just vote to get our boys home faster. You CAN support the guys there and still tell their leaders to get them out. It isnt mutually exclusive.


"This logic I don't get, they will work and live in an extremely dangerous country where they could be killed, that would kind of ruin your life not to mention the psychological problems..."

Your talking about a gurrentee of ruining your life vs a possible of ruining your life. Also, in the first, your not only screwing over your life, but your family (wife kids) as well.

Hey, im not saying "Yeah Support what we are doing in Iraq!"

Im saying, get our guys outta there ASAP, but dont hate them for what they are told to do.

Again, just because you hate them being there, doesnt mean that you need to hate them.
 
2006-10-12 01:51:01 PM  
I served in the Corps from 1989-1997. I did not join to fight, but I did.

I joined knowing that I may very well have to. I accepted that. That was a risk that I was willing to take in order to support and give back to my country a tiny piece of what my country gave to me...the opportunity to grow up and take my place in the world with more freedom than most.

I joined because of those who have fought and died for the freedoms that I enjoy. If giving back to something that is greater than you are wasn't above them, then it wasn't above me either.

I didn't join to kill, but once there, I found myself surrounded by people who were worth killing for, and worth dying for. I reenlisted partly because I couldn't bear the thought of those people moving on to another place where they would fight and kill without me being there to do my part to help them and protect them. That is what being a part of something that's bigger than you are means.

People join for the dream of what the country is, because it means something to them that they want to be a part of. Denigrating that to a statement such as "they are only there because they want to fight" is about as ignorant and assinine as you can get.

I honestly feel sorry for some of the people in this thread who will never understand what its like to escape their little shells and be a part of something that's bigger, and more important than they are. Those without the courage to act at great personal risk for something simply because they believe in it.

Sitting behind a keyboard and denigrating someone else's ideals and demeaning their sacrifices is not acting "at great personal risk", BTW.
 
2006-10-12 01:53:51 PM  
headslap:

Your talking about a gurrentee of ruining your life vs a possible of ruining your life.

not true, you get legal council and a chance to show that you are refusing to fight because of the illigality of the war.
Again, just because you hate them being there, doesnt mean that you need to hate them.

Again, I don't "hate the troops" I just think people should support the troops to stand up to those sending them off to fight in the money grab in Iraq. Supporting them to continue obeying the mission is really no different then supporting the war.
 
2006-10-12 02:13:07 PM  
Headso

not true, you get legal council and a chance to show that you are refusing to fight because of the illigality of the war.

Has that worked? Is it worth the dishonorable discharge/jail your going to get if you dont succed? I honestly dont think thats a defensible position.

I just think people should support the troops to stand up to those sending them off to fight in the money grab in Iraq. Supporting them to continue obeying the mission is really no different then supporting the war.

The punishments for derliction of duty and disobeying orders are far easier for you to accept them when you arent the one accepting teh consequences, eh?

Will we see you travelling the country protesting outside military bases where soldiers are getting punished for this? Not likely.

You can support the troops, and wish them come home in one piece, and still yell and scream and vote away everyone who is pro-war and these guys wont suffer.

But, wtf do you care, it isnt your ass, right?

/ Thats how your coming off to me, anyway.
 
2006-10-12 02:14:08 PM  
Thanks for the service Thuull
 
2006-10-12 02:18:15 PM  
I'm not getting involved in this argument (people who say the troops are baby killers and all that are retarded, anyway).

I'll just wonder why the guy who made this didn't use the original Skynyrd version of "Simple Man"
 
2006-10-12 02:20:38 PM  
headslap: The punishments for derliction of duty and disobeying orders are far easier for you to accept them when you arent the one accepting teh consequences, eh?

these guys joined to fight for their country, accepting consequences is what they do, right now our country needs for people to stand up and not allow the interests of the ruling class to trump the interests of the citizenry, they signed up to protect America, so they should start doing it by telling these chickenhawks to f*ck off.

wtf do you care

I do care, or I wouldn't be talking about this, I would just slap a support our troops bumpersticker on my 11mpg SUV and go along with everyone else.
 
2006-10-12 02:29:22 PM  
Headso

these guys joined to fight for their country, accepting consequences is what they do, right now our country needs for people to stand up and not allow the interests of the ruling class to trump the interests of the citizenry, they signed up to protect America, so they should start doing it by telling these chickenhawks to f*ck off

No, its not the soldiers job to tell the chickenhawks to shove, nor should it EVER be the soldiers job to interfere with polotics or policy. Our military is specificly under "civilian" ie President control for a reason. The citizens of the country need to rise up and either vote them the leaders out or make whatever change they need to themselves.

The military should NEVER be making decisions like you suggest, lest you want tread down THAT slippery slope.

People enlist for many reasons, but let me tell you that very very very few WANT to go overseas to hostile territory.

I do care, or I wouldn't be talking about this, I would just slap a support our troops bumpersticker on my 11mpg SUV and go along with everyone else.

Im glad you do, and yes your right that people need to do more then "slap a support our troops bumpersticker (that was made in China btw) on their 11mpg SUV". They need to wake and make themselves heard. Vote away what corruption we have, and if that not possible, wash it clean with revolution.
 
2006-10-12 02:36:39 PM  
Headso, do you really think you can get anything done sitting there talking about it?

Tell you what, if you care about this so much, why not go down to your recruiter's office and sign up for a four year stint? Four years should be plenty of time for you to start your military coup against the government.

I imagine that somewhere along the way, you will either realize that the system does not work in such a way as to make what you're talking about even remotely feasible, or end up before a firing squad for treason.

Then you'll be able to discuss this from an angle other than ignorance...should you survive the ordeal that is.

In order to strike the constitutional cord in the hearts and minds of our military that would require them to act in the manner in which you wish they would, the vast majority of our active duty serving (mostly overseas) would have to be convinced that the action would not only be in the interest of the American people, but also wanted by the vast majority of the American people. It's not enough for a bunch of generals to get together and go "Okay guys, on 3...one, two!, THREE!" The Lance Corporal on the streets of Faluja has to see it as well. Same with the Airman in Cadena, and the Seaman in Rota.

That's simply not going to happen until such a day as elections get postponed, tens of thousands of citizens are sitting in prison gulags, SCOTUS is disbanded, and state borders are guarded with armed troops looking at each other saying "WTF are we doing here?".

Until then, you're right, people like you are going to drive around in your 11mpg SUVs and come to forums like this to biatch about it.

So, if you believe in it, then GO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
 
2006-10-12 02:38:57 PM  
headslap: No, its not the soldiers job to tell the chickenhawks to shove, nor should it EVER be the soldiers job to interfere with polotics or policy. Our military is specificly under "civilian" ie President control for a reason.

We shouldn't have a standing army in the first place, we already went down a slippery slope with that. So we are in a tough spot here, the suggestions regarding the military's role in America have already been ignored so citing other suggestions regarding their role is really pointless.
 
2006-10-12 02:46:42 PM  
Thuull: In order to strike the constitutional cord in the hearts and minds of our military that would require them to act in the manner in which you wish they would, the vast majority of our active duty serving (mostly overseas) would have to be convinced that the action would not only be in the interest of the American people, but also wanted by the vast majority of the American people.

yes, that is why you should support the troops to stand down on fighting for the profit of those ruling elite. That was the whole point of my posts in this thread. The more people that stand up and say something other then "I don't support the war, but I support the troops(who support the war)" the easier it will be for those troops to not fight in this war.
 
2006-10-12 02:47:21 PM  
Having a standing army, and having it decide domestic and foriegn policy is two very different beasts. Im argueing against the second, and for teh sake of brevity, ill stick to only arguing the second for now.
 
2006-10-12 02:52:40 PM  
headslap: Having a standing army, and having it decide domestic and foriegn policy is two very different beasts.

But your are arguing that we should follow the rules set by the founders regarding the role of the military when we already didn't follow them by having a standing army. Now that we have a standing army their role is significantly different because they are no longer just drafted citizenry with a stake in the actions our government takes them into.
 
2006-10-12 02:53:01 PM  
Yeah, I am all for the war; but the troops? they volunteered. Here's what The Onion says on supporting the war.
 
2006-10-12 02:54:09 PM  
Theres the problem!!

I don't support the war, but I support the troops(who support the war)"

it should be:

"I dont support the war, but i support the men and women who are forced to go to war"

We've seen where your line of thinking will head. Look at Vietnam, and it's treatment of vets.

Instead, the civilians need to make the change in administration.
 
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