Go ahead, let 'em blame Bush. Not like that helps anything!

bake420: i didn't die or have any civil liberties truncated

Assault weapons ban.
Communications Decency Act.
Ban on federal funding of foetal stem-cell research.
Establishment of religion (cf Waco)
Don't ask, don't tell
...

bake420: DOWN with INCUMBENTS (politicians)

Fixed.

bjforme: Clinton cut the meat out of the military while he ignored bin Laden even when a Predator drone literally had bin Laden in its gunsights.

Kinda tough since Predators weren't armed until 2002.

And he HARDLY ignored OBL...(as you well know).

Sloth_DC: Establishment of religion (cf Waco)

WTF?

Isn't it obvious that ALL of the 'politicians', present & past, are looking out for one thing & one thing ONLY? THEMSELVES!!!

Fscking neo-con bastiches. Who gave Iran their light water reactor? George H. W. Bush.

We can play this game all day.

Fsck you all. Your boy is gonna get us all killed.

ATTENTION
If you have read this thread to this point, you have encountered the name 'AQ Khan' a few times.

If you do not know who he is or what he represents (or how he is relevant to this thread), then you need to go read up on him. Right now, not later. The Wikipedia article is an OK place to start.

Thank you. That is all.

bjforme: Clinton cut the meat out of the military while he ignored bin Laden even when a Predator drone literally had bin Laden in its gunsights.

Kinda tough since Predators weren't armed until 2002.
-------------------------------------------------------------

LOL....

Sloth_DC: Assault weapons ban.
Communications Decency Act.
Ban on federal funding of foetal stem-cell research.
Establishment of religion (cf Waco)
Don't ask, don't tell


ok, i also am guilty of short term memory
dont ask dont tell gave more freedom though
thought stem cells was bushie????
assault weapon ban was pretty empty, since expired i believe

untrustworthy: Fixed.

agreed

Wow. Bill Clinton was so clever that he presided over a boom economy (tailored carefully to CRASH in the hands of GWB) and plant sleeper problems designed to cause problems a short half-dozen years after he left.

The man was a genius!

/I'll never vote for Bill again.
//ever!

Sloth_DC: Establishment of religion (cf Waco)

untrustworthy: WTF?

You don't remember the military assault on an unpopular church that occurred in Waco, TX?

Hugh2d2: Your boy is gonna get us all killed.

Bush & Co. have used the "we're gonna die" enough without you using it too.

Sloth_DC: You don't remember the military assault on an unpopular church that occurred in Waco, TX?

I remember it, but I don't recall the raid being because of religious reasons.

bjforme

He met with Yassir Arafat more times than with his CIA officials and I personally watched him arrive in Hawaii three times in three years for golfing vacations.


You're really making this too easy.

"I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers.
Thank you. Now watch this drive."



Clinton cut the meat out of the military while he ignored bin Laden

06 Aug 2001 "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US"

Forgot that little jewel, didya?

bake420: thought stem cells was bushie????

That seems to be the Dem talking point, but it's wrong - the ban on stem-cell research was Clinton (actually, it's a general ban on any research that destroys an embryo or derives from a destroyed embryo). Bush made an exception to the ban for certain preexisting lines.

"Hawaii three times in three years for golfing vacations. "

As opposed to the 4 years total Bush has been on vacation out of his 6 years?

Please, retards, Clinton has been out of office for 6 years. The Republicans have had the house and senate for 12. We farking won WWII in 6 years, yet we can't put down Iraq and North Korea in 6? STOP WITH THE "BUT CLINTON" shiat. It is irrelevant.

Weaver95

two possibilities:

1. we know where they got it and were a. unable to stop it or b. unwilling to stop it.

2. we don't have a clue where they got it. Which means someone is out there selling nuclear weapons technology out the back of a pick up truck and we've got no idea who it is or how to stop them or even to whom they've sold nuclear technology.

I leave it to you to decide which is the scarier prospect.

"There are known knowns..."

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Wow. Bill Clinton was so clever that he presided over a boom economy (tailored carefully to CRASH in the hands of GWB)

??? It crashed in late 2000.

Sloth_DC: You don't remember the military assault on an unpopular church that occurred in Waco, TX?

untrustworthy: I remember it, but I don't recall the raid being because of religious reasons.

Well, why *was* there a raid? To grab a licensed firearms dealer who travelled to gun shows constantly since his lawful profession was licensed firearms dealer? To break up the "drug nexus" consisting of the meth lab that David Koresh had reported to the police as being on the premises when he moved in?

Don't ask, don't tell

Don't ask, don't tell is a loss of rights? By whom? It aeemed a pretty fair compromise unless you're convinced the military is full of predatory ghey.

untrustworthy: I remember it, but I don't recall the raid being because of religious reasons.

David Koresh is a rock star-like martyr among the wacko fringe right. Just nod your head and walk away slowly.

Once Again Bill Clinton was stupid enough to take North Korea at it's word.

N Korea: "We use money to buy food to give to Peasants!"

Clinton: "Yeah that's great. We have worked with North Korea to ensure that our aid is going to the Korean people without any inspection or follow up. Yeah that's right hunny, put those lips right down there... perfect."

Kim Jong Il: *To his aide* "Once we get American Money you will start Nuclear Weapons program."

since everyone here seems hell-bent on blowing hard and noone cares to see what's in my little linky-link above, let me cut and paste a little something into you small little fark-centric world...

In his final days in office, Clinton had been preparing a bold deal in which North Korea would give up its missile and nuclear programs in return for aid and normalized relations. But President Bush was skeptical of Pyongyang's intentions and called for a policy review in March 2001. Two months later the DOE, after consulting with Rumsfeld's Pentagon, renewed the authorization to send nuclear technology to North Korea. Groundbreaking ceremonies attended by Westinghouse and North Korean officials were held Sept. 14, 2001--three days after the worst terror attack on U.S. soil.

The Bush administration still hasn't abandoned the project. Representative Edward Markey and other Congressmen have been sending letters to Bush and Rumsfeld, asking them to pull the plug on the reactors, which Markey calls "nuclear bomb factories." Nevertheless, a concrete-pouring ceremony was held last August, and Westinghouse sponsored a training course for the North Koreans that concluded in October--shortly before Pyongyang confessed to having a secret uranium program, kicked inspectors out, and said it would start making plutonium. The Bush administration has suspended further transfers of nuclear technology, but in January it authorized $3.5 million to keep the project going.

article linked in total above, but it would appear to me that Bush had a hand in this approval as well...

shinjitsuism

no, we offered to build N. Korea two light-water-cooled nuclear reactors inexchange for decomissioning their two existing soviet reactors.

if you think Bill Clinton is "stupid" I can not fathom how low your opinion must be of yourself.

Sloth_DC: Well, why *was* there a raid? To grab a licensed firearms dealer who travelled to gun shows constantly since his lawful profession was licensed firearms dealer? To break up the "drug nexus" consisting of the meth lab that David Koresh had reported to the police as being on the premises when he moved in?

I thought there were reports of rapes of underage children as well.

Besides, I wasn't aware that being a licensed firearms dealer allowed you to keep the type of arsenal Koresh had.

Regardless, I'd hardly blame the raid on religious reasons.

LocalCynic: David Koresh is a rock star-like martyr among the wacko fringe right. Just nod your head and walk away slowly.

I know, but I'd hardly credit the government with handling it very well. I believe what is "right" is somewhere in between.

Gestalt: Don't ask, don't tell is a loss of rights?

It's a lost opportunity to state, emphatically, "You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."[1]

[1] Barry Goldwater

untrustworthy: I thought there were reports of rapes of underage children as well.

Besides, I wasn't aware that being a licensed firearms dealer allowed you to keep the type of arsenal Koresh had.

Regardless, I'd hardly blame the raid on religious reasons.

A lot of people are mad because the Branch Davidians were one of the apocalypse cults that thinks the UN is a "global government" and that they needed to hole up, stockpile a bunch of weapons, and prepare for the rapture. So they act OUTRAAAAAGED and play the victim card.

untrustworthy: I thought there were reports of rapes of underage children as well.

Yes - in the same local newspaper article (by a local Baptist) complaining that they had music and dancing! No support was ever proferred for the allegations of child abuse.

Besides, I wasn't aware that being a licensed firearms dealer allowed you to keep the type of arsenal Koresh had.

What type of arsenal is that? They had only legal weapons, and much of the church income came from firearms sales.

I hate to interupt the flaming with some facts, but here they are.
1994 - Bill Clinton negotiated the Agreed Framework, under which NK agreed to NOT reprocess plutonium.

North Korea began cheating on the agreement immediately, or rather, never stopped reprocessing plutonium from their Yonbyon Reactor, which they built themselves.
They in fact had enough plutonium by 1994 for several nukes.
All that happened in 2002 was that they were caught cheating on their agreement.
Clinton got his agreement and walked away. Bush caught the NKs and began trying to prevent them building bombs with plutonium they already had.
Ironically he's been criticized for not acting unilaterally because he has insisted on multiparty talks. Go figure.
It's fair to say Bush's approach to that didn't work, but it's also fair to say neither did Bill Clinton's.

Sloth_DC
MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Wow. Bill Clinton was so clever that he presided over a boom economy (tailored carefully to CRASH in the hands of GWB)

??? It crashed in late 2000.

Numerically it was March 11, 2000. A large contributing factor to the boom and burst was panic over Y2K - which had prompted every mid-to-large sized company to hire consultants for disaster. When 2000 happened with neither apocalypse nor even a power flicker the companies were free to cut their consultants free.

It was nice, working for a dot com right out of high school (and then having them go bankrupt, grr).

My comment was poking fun at the "But Clinton" crowd though. I don't think Clinton was responsible for the 90's boom nor the burst.

I thought it was really sad to be blaming Clinton one or two years into Bush's presidency. You took the job, so deal with it! Continuing to blame Clinton six years in is offensively pathetic.

Sloth_DC: Yes - in the same local newspaper article (by a local Baptist) complaining that they had music and dancing! No support was ever proferred for the allegations of child abuse.

From what I understand the children were never allowed to be interviewed alone.

What type of arsenal is that? They had only legal weapons, and much of the church income came from firearms sales.

Are grenades legal for a firearms dealer? I've never heard that.

Threads like this go much quicker if you just scroll really fast looking for big text and pictures. They are a lot more fun too.

//YA RRY

MusicMakeMyHeadPound
the companies were free to cut their consultants free

Ugh. The guy who does my proofreading is off on holiday.

AAAARRRRRRGGGHHHH ! WHAT DOES IT farkING MATTER WHAT CLINTON DID 6 YEARS and LONGER AGO?

Ok, okay, Clinton sodomized Jesus, he was reponsible for Communism, he napalmed babies, he's why my mom got fat, he's responsible for EVERYTHING WRONG in the world prior to Bush getting elected!

Now, Bush and the Republicans have been in complete control for 6 years! WHY HAVEN'T THEY GOT IT RIGHT? we won farking WWII in 6 years, we put a man on the moon in 6 years, whatever problems we got now are the fault of the people IN POWER NOW! They DON'T get a free pass! If you give it to them, you might as well walk away from the great experiment of America that the Founding Fathers started.

/going to get drunk.

untrustworthy: From what I understand the children were never allowed to be interviewed alone.

They were examined by a number of child psychologists after the raid. The only one who found any evidence of any abuse was the govt psychologist.

Are grenades legal for a firearms dealer? I've never heard that.

Grenade casings are - they're commonly sold as gag gifts, and the Davidians did not own any grenades, just empty grenade casings.

"Kinda tough since Predators weren't armed until 2002."

Zing!!!!

Let's see if Bj really left this time :)

Sloth_DC: They were examined by a number of child psychologists after the raid. The only one who found any evidence of any abuse was the govt psychologist.

After the raid a lot of the kids were dead.

Grenade casings are - they're commonly sold as gag gifts, and the Davidians did not own any grenades, just empty grenade casings.

That's not what was reported. Evidence collected after the fact found live grenades as well as the illegal alteration of semiautomatic weapons into automatic weapons.

It's official....Cue the trainwreck pic.

untrustworthy: That's not what was reported. Evidence collected after the fact found live grenades as well as the illegal alteration of semiautomatic weapons into automatic weapons.

I'd ask for a link, but I'm on the way out the door. Catch me next time - and ask yourself why none of these "live grenades" and "automatic weapons" were used during the siege.

pilto

since everyone here seems hell-bent...

Sweet.


LocalCynic

David Koresh is a rock star-like martyr among the wacko fringe right.

Huh? No he's not.

However, there's a major school of thought that the federal government had no business sieging the 'compound' and burning all those little kids alive - or sticking a machine gun in a little kid's face to force him back to Cuba.

I suppose you think differently.

I'll go even further and guess that, after Janet Reno, you thought John Ashcroft was there to set up a 'police state'.

If you are stupid enough to sell--more likely, give---nuclear technology to North Korea with the promise they will not use it for warlike purposes, you are stupid enough to believe anything.

Name ONE TIME they have ever told the truth!

"President Bush likes to solve international problems with diplomacy first."


bwAAAAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

You owe me a new keyboard.

// Do you do a matinee show also?
// How is the veal?

bjforme: How would you actually FIX this problem?

Recognize NK and their government. Why we think it is better to ignore and pretend these leaders of these nations don't exist is beyond me. If we had actually sat down with Kim, he probably would've gotten the attention he wants and settled down again.