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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Jewish leaders tell Chicago's Jewish aldermen they risk incurring wrath of God if they push to repeal ban on foie gras. Yahweh unavailable for comment   (suntimes.com) divider line 290
    More: Unlikely  
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3052 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Sep 2006 at 10:15 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-09-19 07:32:29 AM  
God's going to be angry with Chicago? I can't wait to see this. About time the bastard showed himself. I want a word with him when he gets here...
 
2006-09-19 07:39:25 AM  
God is coming? Crap!
*stashes foie gras-stuffed pork chop sammich*
 
2006-09-19 07:44:04 AM  
"It's the only food item that can only be raised by torturing an animal," Kohl said.

Try the veal instead.
 
2006-09-19 07:52:51 AM  
Somehow, I think that if god were going to be pissed at Chicago, it would be for the continued existence of the Cubs rather than which duck they choose to serve.
 
2006-09-19 08:16:39 AM  
I don't think God would dare show up in the US. He'd be slapped with a million frivolous lawsuits from the meek demanding their share of the Earth.

And you know who has all the best lawyers.
 
2006-09-19 08:21:04 AM  
They do have a bit of a point.

Foie gras is a little on the cruel side....but then, I'm sure we could come to an agreement.

Maybe something involving the fat McDonald's kid or something. He's already force-fed himself, so his liver should be lovely.
 
2006-09-19 08:21:35 AM  
I agree completely with them, and they are completely right.

Now, you might disagree with them on a secular basis, but what they said is absolutely sound by Jewish Law and basic Jewish concepts.
 
2006-09-19 08:26:22 AM  
C'mon, what's he got that's worse than Chicago in the winter?
 
2006-09-19 08:29:49 AM  
Oh, and foie gras farming is illegal in Israel, and our scholars have been against it for as long as it exist.

Example: The great scholar Rashi (1050 - 1105), the most famous commentator on the Tanakh and Talmud, studied every weeks by million of Jews, wrote in the 11th century about foie gras: "Jews will have to answer to G-d for having made the beasts (geese) suffer while fattening them".
 
2006-09-19 08:35:03 AM  
Tatsuma: The great scholar Rashi (1050 1040 - 1105)

Corrected for accuracy
 
2006-09-19 08:39:44 AM  
Tatsuma: I agree completely with them, and they are completely right.

Now, you might disagree with them on a secular basis, but what they said is absolutely sound by Jewish Law and basic Jewish concepts.


Dude, is there anything Jewish you won't defend?

These guys are attention-whoring, nothing more.

The foie gras issue just happens to be a hot topic in Chicago right now.

The truth is that just about any meat product you eat has resulted from an animal living under horrible conditions and being slaughtered under even worse conditions. Especially chicken and beef.

If these guys really gave a fark about animals being treated cruelly before and during dying, they would have been condemning the Jewish alderman for not calling for a ban on most all meat products in Chicago, and they would have been doing it for a long time, not just when something becomes a hot topic for Chicago politics.

But, they didn't.

Because the cruelty to animals in the meat industry didn't matter to them until this became a popular issue.

/loves meat
//just chooses not to think about how the chicken was treated before it died
 
2006-09-19 08:44:49 AM  
SchlingFo: Dude, is there anything Jewish you won't defend?

Many things. Paula Abdul, for example.

These guys are attention-whoring, nothing more.

No they are not. There are very big prohibitions against Animal Cruelty in Torah. It's not just a law for the Jews, it's a law for everyone. They are right in bringing up the concept of Tikun Olam. Jews are supposed to make the world a better place. By allowing Foie Gras, they are going straight against it and centuries of Jewish opposition to Foie Gras

The foie gras issue just happens to be a hot topic in Chicago right now.

It's been a "hot topic" for Jews for centuries, now

The truth is that just about any meat product you eat has resulted from an animal living under horrible conditions and being slaughtered under even worse conditions. Especially chicken and beef.

"My neighbour was already yelling at his daughter, so what if he beats her? He wasn't treating her well anyway"

If these guys really gave a fark about animals being treated cruelly before and during dying, they would have been condemning the Jewish alderman for not calling for a ban on most all meat products in Chicago, and they would have been doing it for a long time, not just when something becomes a hot topic for Chicago politics.

That's why we eat Kosher. They don't suffer when we kill them.

Because the cruelty to animals in the meat industry didn't matter to them until this became a popular issue.

That's so farking stupid. Animal Cruelty has been a Jewish issue for 3,300 years.

Just because you're completely unaware of history doesn't make you right

//just chooses not to think about how the chicken was treated before it died

At least you admit being a complete hypocrite.
 
2006-09-19 08:49:31 AM  
Tatsuma: Many things. Paula Abdul, for example.

How about Madonna?

/She's Jewish just like she's British.
 
2006-09-19 08:52:59 AM  
EvilEgg: How about Madonna?

/She's Jewish just like she's British.


Don't get me started
 
2006-09-19 08:55:02 AM  
SchlingFo: Dude, is there anything Jewish you won't defend?

It may be attention whoring....but have you ever had kosher food? Unlike PETA, when they want you to do something, they bring something better to the table to replace it.
 
2006-09-19 09:00:07 AM  
SchlingFo: Because the cruelty to animals in the meat industry didn't matter to them until this became a popular issue.

I don't think that it's so much of a "It didn't matter until now" thing as much as "It's an opportune moment, since there's already publicity on the issue, to make a statement about the practice" sort of thing.

I mean, if there's no furor over, say, saving the marmots, and you go throwing press releases out to all the newspapers about "Save our Furry Marmot Friends!", you're not really going to get any significant coverage except maybe as a bit of column filler on E-25, after the local high school sports scores.

If there's currently a huge controversy over building an airport over marmot habitat, though, it'll be a lot easier to get your literature into the paper.

That's just the way the world works.
 
2006-09-19 09:43:51 AM  
Tatsuma,

No they are not. There are very big prohibitions against Animal Cruelty in Torah. It's not just a law for the Jews, it's a law for everyone. They are right in bringing up the concept of Tikun Olam. Jews are supposed to make the world a better place. By allowing Foie Gras, they are going straight against it and centuries of Jewish opposition to Foie Gras

So, these Jews have been vocally lobbying the Jewish aldermen to ban most all meats from being served in Chicago?

My neighbour was already yelling at his daughter, so what if he beats her? He wasn't treating her well anyway"

Your analogy sucks the chrome off a trailer hitch, as foie gras isn't nearly as cruel as some of the other things done as a matter of course in the meat industry.

But, that wasn't my point. My point was the these Jews haven't been vocally lobbying the Jewish aldermen to ban most all meats from being served in Chicago. Most meats are the product of some pretty nasty cruelty to animals. Therefore, it would stand to reason that, if these Jews were serious about preventing cruelty to animals, they would have lobbied the Jewish alderman to ban most meat from being served in Chicago, and they would have been doing it for a long time.

That's why we eat Kosher. They don't suffer when we kill them.

Yes, you choose to eat Kosher. You don't try to legislate that only Kosher meat be served in a city.

Why not?

Why haven't these Jews been lobbying the Jewish aldermen to ban all meats except Kosher meats?

If they were really concerned with reducing the cruelty to animals, they would have been doing so for a long time.

That's so farking stupid. Animal Cruelty has been a Jewish issue for 3,300 years.

And, yet, these Jews haven't been lobbying the Jewish aldermen to ban the sale of any meat except Kosher meat in Chicago for all these years.

At least you admit being a complete hypocrite.

We're all hypocrites. Living a normal western lifestyle means that a bunch of poor bastards in 3rd world countries are suffering to support your lifestyle. Their resources are stripped away, and they're given virtually nothing in return. Our factories take advantage of the lax pollution laws/enforcement in 3rd world countries and pollute their environments.

So, if I were to be outraged at and forgo everything in my lifestyle that resulted in something else suffering, I'd be living in a shack in the woods, growing my own food, using well water and chopping wood for heat.

But, I'm willing to accept that I live my life the way I do at the expense of someone else's suffering.

And, you, being that you're living a western lifestyle in a western world, means that you do the same.

So, drop the hypocrite bullshiat.
 
2006-09-19 09:47:12 AM  
SchlingFo: If they were really concerned with reducing the cruelty to animals, they would have been doing so for a long time.

See what I said at 2006-09-19 09:00:07 AM ....in the words of, as this is Speak Like A Pirate Day, Captain Jack Sparrow: you have to wait for the opportune moment.
 
2006-09-19 09:47:58 AM  
So Tatsuma, are you lobbying your local politicians to ban foie gras?
 
2006-09-19 09:49:38 AM  
muninsfire,

It may be attention whoring....but have you ever had kosher food? Unlike PETA, when they want you to do something, they bring something better to the table to replace it.

Yeah, I have. My girlfriend in high school was Jewish, and food there was always Kosher.

Hell, Hebrew National makes the best damn hot dogs out there.

And, I have no problem with someone offering a better alternative to the current meat industry.

If it tastes as good, and is comparably priced without all the cruelty, I'll choose to buy it.

I don't think that it's so much of a "It didn't matter until now" thing as much as "It's an opportune moment, since there's already publicity on the issue, to make a statement about the practice" sort of thing.

And, I don't mind if you jump on the bandwagon, like they've done.

But, if you do, you better have a track record of opposing things like that in the past.

If someone tries to get beer banned but has no problem with Jack Daniels being legal, I'm going to raise the bullshiat flag on them.
 
2006-09-19 09:57:26 AM  
SchlingFo: But, if you do, you better have a track record of opposing things like that in the past.

Hey, they keep Kosher, obviously.

And how would you *know* whether they'd been lobbying to get Chicago to maintain Kosher standards of meat production for any length of time? It's not like the news media has any impetus to report on it.
 
2006-09-19 10:01:22 AM  
muninsfire,

Hey, they keep Kosher, obviously.

What I meant was that, if they want to jump on the "keep foie gras illegal" bandwagon, they better have a track record of pushing to make most all other meats illegal.

And how would you *know* whether they'd been lobbying to get Chicago to maintain Kosher standards of meat production for any length of time? It's not like the news media has any impetus to report on it.

I'm pretty sure that, if a group of Jews were lobbying to make Kosher meat into law in Chicago, it would hit the news at least as hard as a simple ban on foie gras.

Besides, I know damn well Tatsuma would know.

He can tell you how many peas the last Jew born in the 17th century had on his 23rd birthday dinner.
 
2006-09-19 10:03:03 AM  
SchlingFo: I'm pretty sure that, if a group of Jews were lobbying to make Kosher meat into law in Chicago, it would hit the news at least as hard as a simple ban on foie gras.

Any more than PETA's annual "don't eat steak" protests in Chicago?

Besides, I know damn well Tatsuma would know.

He can tell you how many peas the last Jew born in the 17th century had on his 23rd birthday dinner.


Pfeh. Trick question. He had green beans.
 
2006-09-19 10:05:10 AM  
I see some people still think they should legislate religion and morality. And I was wondering why the police officer didn't recognize my God granted free will.
 
2006-09-19 10:07:09 AM  
minoridiot: I see some people still think they should legislate religion and morality.

This isn't so much a morals as an ethics question--is it ethical to cause another to suffer so that we can maintain our lifestyle?

And I was wondering why the police officer didn't recognize my God granted free will.

He was.

He recognized you had the free will to break the law, which is why you were sent to prison.

Those who do not have free will are mentally defective and get sent to the mental hospital.
 
2006-09-19 10:08:50 AM  
SchlingFo:

Do you realize how ridiculous your arguments are? Jews represent .02% of the global population, and roughly .02% of the population in America. Roughly 6 millions out of 293. On these 6 million of Jews (some of them who are not even Jews (only a Jewish father, or converts to Reform and Conservative)), less than a million are Orthodox Jews and keep Kosher.

So you want .0034% of America's population to change things in a city with 3 times more Orthodox Jews than in America?

There's a limit to what we can do. Stopping Animal Cruelty altogether is one of them. The fact that we can even have leverage on Foie Gras in Chicago is amazing.
These guy are taking up a morale cause and all you say is "Attention whores, lol!"
 
2006-09-19 10:10:36 AM  
SchlingFo: I'm pretty sure that, if a group of Jews were lobbying to make Kosher meat into law in Chicago, it would hit the news at least as hard as a simple ban on foie gras.

WHY WOULD WE!


Only Jews are farking required to eat Kosher! We represent .02% of America! Why would we force Kosher food on everyone??

He can tell you how many peas the last Jew born in the 17th century had on his 23rd birthday dinner.

And that's 0, he was too poor. He had nice Gefilte fish, though. And wine from his uncle Shlomo
 
2006-09-19 10:12:22 AM  
Tatsuma Only Jews are farking required to eat Kosher! We represent .02% of America! Why would we force Kosher food on everyone??

Why would Jews force a foie gras ban on everyone?
 
2006-09-19 10:13:33 AM  
Tatsuma: There's a limit to what we can do.

But everyone knows that teh Jews are behind *everything*!

anal brazil men: Why would Jews force a foie gras ban on everyone?

Why would PETA?
 
2006-09-19 10:14:49 AM  
anal brazil men: Why would Jews force a foie gras ban on everyone?

But they are not forcing a foie gras ban. The ban is already in place. They have been told by competant sources that repealing this ban would go against Jewish Law and Jewish concepts.

You think that the Jews are the ones who stopped people in Chicago from eating Foie Gras?

muninsfire: But everyone knows that teh Jews are behind *everything*!

I guess you're right.
 
2006-09-19 10:16:28 AM  
That's farking ridiculous. Two jews are in a positon where they can have an effect and prevent animals from being treated with cruelty, they are being told that going against the ban is going against Judaism, and I get asked "Well, why don't they force everyone to eat Kosher then!4!%!"

It's a good things classes are starting at 11:30, otherwise I think I'd pop an aneurysm
 
2006-09-19 10:17:48 AM  
For the last time. The God of the Jewish people is not called Yahweh. Adonai is the word most commonly used.
 
2006-09-19 10:18:13 AM  
Tatsuma,

So you want .0034% of America's population to change things in a city with 3 times more Orthodox Jews than in America?

I could care less if they change anything or not.

I don't fault someone for not being able to change something when they try.

I fault them for jumping on the bandwagon when they've been perfectly fine with all other meat being legal in the past.

I fault them in the same way that I faulted all the people who became vehemently opposed to illegal immigrants when it hit the news, forgetting the fact that two weeks before it hit the news, they didn't care about enacting all kinds of new immigration laws.

If these guys have been pushing to make Kosher meat into law in Chicago long before this foie gras thing made the news, then I won't fault them.

But, you and I know that's not the case.

These guy are taking up a morale cause and all you say is "Attention whores, lol!"

When they seem to be fine with all other animal cruelty in the meat industry being legal, then yeah, I'm going to raise the bullshiat flag on them.

As I said earlier, I have no problem with someone that wants to ban beer. I will have a problem with them if they want to ban beer but have no issue with Jack Daniels being legal.
 
2006-09-19 10:18:24 AM  
Cue www.yahwehhatesgeese.com in 3... 2... 1...
 
2006-09-19 10:18:32 AM  
Tatsuma

Fair enough.
 
2006-09-19 10:19:26 AM  
This is a dumb story and a non issue.
 
2006-09-19 10:19:41 AM  
I've read about what that G-d guy does when he's pissed. I think he has some serious anger management issues. But if you value your firstborn, I don't think you really want to poke the bear.
 
2006-09-19 10:20:10 AM  
Tatsuma: We represent .02% of America!

Yes, but you control 99.9% of it!

/Actually, Jews are 2% of America
 
2006-09-19 10:20:25 AM  
LoganWexler:

Technically, we don't know how to pronounce his name. We use the other name you wrote in prayers, mostly. We will not use it outside nor will we write it, out of respect, thus the reason why we say HaShem, G-d or L-rd.
 
2006-09-19 10:20:51 AM  
LoganWexler: For the last time. The God of the Jewish people is not called Yahweh. Adonai is the word most commonly used.

Y-weh would be the representation of a nifty little thing called the 'Tetragrammaton'--four Hebrew letters that represent The True Name Of G-d.

Adonai translates, IIRC, more correctly as "my Lord" or something like that.
 
2006-09-19 10:21:03 AM  
In an angry letter to the two political cohorts, Kohl promised to do "everything in my power to defeat your misguided efforts."

Is this a military invasion, or is this still foie-gras we're talkin' here?
 
2006-09-19 10:21:43 AM  
Tatsuma,

WHY WOULD WE!

Maybe because Kosher meat reduces the cruelty to animals.

Isn't that the moral thing to do?
 
2006-09-19 10:21:51 AM  
elchip: /Actually, Jews are 2% of America

We're not going to get into this 'what is a Jew' thing again, are we?
 
2006-09-19 10:22:09 AM  
SchlingFo: When they seem to be fine with all other animal cruelty in the meat industry being legal, then yeah, I'm going to raise the bullshiat flag on them.

I'm sorry, but how the fark would you know that

elchip: /Actually, Jews are 2% of America

Yeah, you're right.
 
2006-09-19 10:22:29 AM  
SchlingFo: Hell, Hebrew National makes the best damn hot dogs out there.


Anyone who has been to a hot dog factory will find humour in that statement.
 
2006-09-19 10:22:37 AM  
SchlingFo: Maybe because Kosher meat reduces the cruelty to animals.

Isn't that the moral thing to do?


More a question of ethics than morals, I think.
 
2006-09-19 10:23:25 AM  
SchlingFo: Maybe because Kosher meat reduces the cruelty to animals.

Isn't that the moral thing to do?


There are other ways to kill animals without cruelty that does not necessitate them to be killed in a Kosher way

Do you even know the process to Kosherize meat?

IT'd be IMPOSSIBLE to turn all meat in America Kosher-only.
 
2006-09-19 10:23:31 AM  
While the Old Testament laws commanded animals to be sacrificed, there were also injunctions against animal cruelty.

Animals were not to be overworked (Ex 23:12) or underfed (Dt 25:4), nor were they to be hunted to extinction (Dt 22:6-7).

Even wild animals were provided for, since they were given leftover food (Ex 23:11).

In addition, Proverbs 12:10 says, "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal."



from www.rationalchristianity.net
 
2006-09-19 10:23:54 AM  
Tatsuma,

I'm sorry, but how the fark would you know that

They're not out there lobbying to make Kosher meat into law. That's my first guess.
 
2006-09-19 10:24:41 AM  
If God didn't want us to eat tortured animals, he should not have made them so tasty.
 
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