Was that headline supposed to be coherent?

Does "Stupid" tag refer to "Submitter" for random use of quotation marks?

Whiners, I guess your massive debt and payments qualify as "Living Expenses" in your mind.

I am the greetest! and now I am leafing for no rasin!!

\obscure?
\america sucks at sooo many things

Living in debt is retarded. I never understood why people can't live within their means.

Remember, you have an obligation to buy that cell phone and cable service to keep the economy going!

Buy buy buy! Spend spend spend!

Isn't this an obvious tag situation?

People are strapped for cash? It's their own damn fault. Obviously, 22% of Americans just didn't have the foresight to be born rich.

Couldn't find the YouTube video, but Don't Buy Stuff You Cannot Afford (SNL)

sylaak:Living in debt is retarded. I never understood why people can't live within their means.

they bought into the propaganda: you are only as good as the products you purchase. Feel bad, sad? Buy yourself something nice to cheer yourself up!!

Oops, now I feel bad because I bought so much crap I don't need, better keep borrowing!!

Perhaps we could scale back a tad on the foreign aid then, hmmm?

Living in debt is retarded. I never understood why people can't live within their means.

I used to be debt free. It was great. Until I was unemployed and had to use my Goodyear credit card to get my car repaired so I could get a job that wasn't just limited to where I could walk.

Then I went to college. Actually, 90% of my current debt is my student loans. My credit cards are almost completely paid off. Student loans...Damn, I should have bought a house instead of going to college. It probably would have been cheaper.

Mercenary FoxPerhaps we could scale back a tad on the foreign aid then, hmmm?

you are missing the point, did you even RTFA? You lose points for crappy trolling, please insert another coin to continue.

Cue the people on their high-horses who brag about being "debt- free" and living within their means, while laying down and expecting blow jobs from everyone riddled with debt.

That headline hurt my brain.

I used to be debt free, then I went to college and wracked up debt. Then I got out, got a job, and a car, and wrecked the car and lost my job.

Most people don't choose to put themselves into debt.

Ha ha, Portugal. Living in Little Portugal (Southern New England), I found that amusing.

I used to be debt free with savings. Then I tried to help my daughter and her lying dirty disgusting pig stealing husband buy a house that they walked away from.

never Never NEVER trust your kids.

/too many payments in a slow housing market may mean bankruptcy

From the article: "Americans earn more money than people in most other countries"

Wait a sec.... In what country do people earn more than Americans?

Debt is a great tool for getting rich. If you know how to use it.

America also donates more than any other country.


Credit cards are the biggest problem.I had my problems with them in the past.I paid them off and now only have two with $1000 limits.Capital One at first balked at reducing my limits, but I told them I would cancel if they declined.

Cash is king!

Second place to Portugal? Come on, Americans! We can do better than that! We shouldn't stop buying shiat we can't afford until we're number one!

USA! USA! USA!

mike_the_engineer: Wait a sec.... In what country do people earn more than Americans?


Norway and Luxembourg for starters.

My debt is all sorts of paid off. What I expect now is blowjobs from those in debt!

sylaak: "Living in debt is retarded. I never understood why people can't live within their means."

I agree that debt is bad. My family doesn't have debt either. It's impossible to stay out of debt though when your paycheck doesn't pay basic bills and you're too busy working to "go to school and get a better job". So many in America live in debt and poverty because the minimum wage hasn't been raised in decades.

I know. I've heard it all before. You think some people are peons and some jobs aren't dignified enough for a living wage. The people who work them are lazy, losers and if all people had dignified wages no one could make themselves feel superior. ::shocked gasp::

Yeah. Yeah. That's what Bush thinks too. He's the lead idiot. He would rather buy missiles than feed the poor. Cause that's the neo con way. Sad how most who think debt is stupid steadily work to keep a group of people in subserviant poverty. God forbid we have to pay five cents more for a head of lettuce! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Those are the same people who would have owned slaves back in the day.

I live within my means from atop my debt-free high horse.

Large estate? paid for.
Vehicles? paid for.
Investments? paying me.

And I did it all on my own.

This gives me lots of free time to enjoy life. And post comments on Fark from Snob Hill.

Thank you Dear Jerk for bringing some rationality into this senseless discussion.

It's important to realize that debt is a financial tool that, when used wisely, could bring you great rewards. Examples are: buying a house, and going to college (assuming that your degree is capable of getting you a well paying job).

Thousands of dollars in CC debt is obviously bad. Don't do that. However, if you're anything like my dumb-shiat uncle and you never went to college, never bought a house, and never bought a new car all because you were afraid of going into debt, then you sir are a dumbass.

FTA:
When Americans find extra cash, they tend to use it to pay off credit-card balances and other debts or put it into savings, the survey revealed.

Aren't you supposed to put extra cash into savings?
Anyway. I decided a couple of years ago that I needed to get rid of the credit card habit and save more. I still have a car payment and a couple grand in cc debit. But I've not used any of my cards in over a year.
I got rid of Directv ($70 a month), my cell phone ($50 a month) and funneled that money straight into my savings account. Anything that I purchase is purchased for cash (well debit card) and comes from the current paycheck instead of the savings account. It feels good to actually save money and have excess cash after paying bills.

I also applied this idea to the house that I'll be buying in the next 6 months or so. No, I can't pay for it in cash. But at first I was thinking about what I wanted. Lots of square feet, in-ground pool, the works. Instead I'll be looking for fixer-uppers and other houses that is not far off from my current rent instead of tacking on an additional $500 a month in mortgage.

/is that frugal enough?
//do I qualify for the blow job from people in debt?
///is Halle Berry in debt and available?

I don't pay off debt OR put my extra cash into savings, I mulch it and use it as hamster litter.

I must not be the typical American the article was refering to.

we don't save, the japanese don't spend. we should pilot an exchange program.

What is the percentage of Americans that actually earn minimal wage? The act of raising the minimal wage is a pay cut for all NOT earning a minimal wage. A better move would be a reduction of the minimal wage.

j0hn33y: What is the percentage of Americans that actually earn minimal wage? The act of raising the minimal wage is a pay cut for all NOT earning a minimal wage. A better move would be a reduction of the minimal wage.


Very true. Those workers who have excelled at their min wage jobs and gotten a 25c raise will see their loser co-workers catch up.

I think more needs to be done to force employers to provide benifits for low income employees. That would make a lot more difference to their lives than just about anything else I can think of.

Minsky: It has to be what the Democrats want: the alternative is for companies to raise their prices to cover the change, which just means that the increase in minimum wage had no effect.

Not really. It'll push prices up, but since wages might only be 30% of a business expenses, then wages should outpace price increases roughly three-fold.

Also a lot of minimum wage people are employed by relatively few middle/upper class types. There are armies of them that march into our neighborhood every week to mow lawns and clean houses. I suspect the bulk of the price rise would be assumed by the better off.

Countries with decent minimum wages and socialized healthcare still seem to function.

sylaak: Living in debt is retarded. I never understood why people can't live within their means.

Good luck buying a house.

What is the percentage of Americans that actually earn minimal wage? The act of raising the minimal wage is a pay cut for all NOT earning a minimal wage. A better move would be a reduction of the minimal wage.

or eliminating it altogether, allowing people to set/compete for salary . . . if a waitress, for one example, can do the work of three, than the salary should be allowed to reflect; if she could name her price and her worth was realized, it could be possible without the minimum wage--with the minimum wage, however, no business has to care, just slap on the uniform and give her just what the law makes 'em

it could solve the illegal alien issue too, let illegals and legal americans decide & compete for the jobs they want, companies won't have to cheat to get the cheapest labor they can afford to get . . .

BooRabideau: or eliminating it altogether, allowing people to set/compete for salary . . . if a waitress, for one example, can do the work of three, than the salary should be allowed to reflect; if she could name her price and her worth was realized, it could be possible without the minimum wage--with the minimum wage, however, no business has to care, just slap on the uniform and give her just what the law makes 'em

Without a floor it will become a race to the bottom. *mart and mctacoburger will start cutting their employee's wages telling them they suck it or work elsewhere. That'll make other employers realize they can do the same, and the cycle will repeat. There will always be someone desparate enough to take it, and that'll suck for the rest.

The only option for the proletariat will be to unionize, which might not be bad way for things to go.


The other thing i wondered was that perhaps all wages should be expressed as minimum wage + some number. So if you are currently at MW + $1 /hr, you'll get a rise when MW goes up.

It would mean that people on MW + $100/hr would also get a rise, but expressed as percentage it'd favor the lower end of the scale.

Getting rid of the minimum wage only works under a perfectly competitive labor market. But we don't have that, we generally have Monopsonistic competition, and hence a minimum wage is needed.

Love seeing all the armchair economists come out of the wordwork in these threads. Especially like the one claiming that minimum wage increases will result in market price increases that will wipe out the benefits of the initial wage increase. Ha ha ha. Like there aren't any other factors of production than labor.

You call that an article?

Here are some real numbers...


Per Capita GDP:

#1 Luxembourg $66,463.78 per capita
#2 Norway $54,467.23 per capita
#3 Switzerland $47,999.07 per capita
#4 Ireland $45,707.17 per capita
#5 Denmark $44,742.82 per capita
#6 Iceland $41,720.45 per capita
#7 United States $39,452.74 per capita
#8 Sweden $38,480.78 per capita
#9 Japan $36,285.57 per capita
#10 Finland $35,726.02 per capita


Gross National Income- Per Capita
#1 Luxembourg $37,499.20 per person
#2 Switzerland $36,987.60 per person
#3 Japan $35,474.10 per person
#4 Norway $35,053.30 per person
#5 United States $33,070.30 per person

brm68: many other countries offer more foreign aid PER CAPITA than the US.

#1 Luxembourg $502.78 per capita
#2 Denmark $368.19 per capita
#3 Norway $304.81 per capita
#4 Netherlands $243.80 per capita
#5 Sweden $188.85 per capita
#6 Ireland $151.15 per capita
#7 Switzerland $146.88 per capita
#8 United Kingdom $130.71 per capita
#9 Belgium $103.44 per capita
#10 France $89.03 per capita
#11 Austria $83.20 per capita
#12 Canada $79.26 per capita
#13 Finland $72.56 per capita
#14 Japan $69.85 per capita
#15 Germany $67.94 per capita
#16 Australia $44.50 per capita
#17 Spain $32.97 per capita
#18 Portugal $25.65 per capita
#19 New Zealand $24.71 per capita
#20 United States $23.33 per capita


Figures taken from nationmaster.com

Damn! I'm half American and half Portuguese.

Someone give me a credit card! I've got some shopping to do!

/must stop saving $
//not living down to my potential

Late to the thread but: I've always said that basic money management should be taught in high schools. It should be mandatory. So many people I know are in debt because they continue to but on credit. That couch that they NEEDED and didn't wait for a sale and bought on credit at $1200 will cost them twice as much due to interest. Other than car and home, you should rarely by with credit.

Dave Ramsey is my new friend and he can be yours too.

Ramsey has a radio show on just under 300 radio stations across the country about getting and staying out of debt.

His 'Baby steps' for getting out of debt are thus:
0. Create and live, on a budget. Know where your money is going before you spend it, and know how to make it last till the next paycheck.
1. $1000 ($2,000 max) in savings as a starter emergency fund. As many folks have already pointed out, emergencies can get you back into debt pretty fast when you've decided to get out. The emergency fund allows you to pay cash for the car breaking down, the furnace needing repair, or whatever else happens that you didn't expect.

2. Pay off all your debts (besides mortgage) with the 'debt snowball', starting with the smallest debt and working your way up to the largest debt. Yes, money wise, you save some bucks going highest interest rate to lowest, but if you were really good with money and numbers would you be in debt?

Going smallest to largest on killing your debts is about behavior (the real problem with most consumer debt) and about the mental satisfaction of seeing your debts dissapear one by one.

If you have a situation that consumes the emergency fund, stop the debt snowball long enough to restore the emergency fund. Problems you can see coming are not emergencies (like new tires for your car) and should be budgeted and saved for.

3. Fully Funded Emergency Fund. At this point, save up three to six months of living expenses (not income, expenses). This will allow you to weather a job loss or a major emergency without debt.

4. Invest 15 percent of your income into roth IRAs and pre-tax retirement. Don't count on social security being there when you retire. (If it is, great! you have even more money! But it's a piss-poor long term bet, someone is gonna have to fix that sooner or later)

5. College funding for your kids.

6. Pay off your mortgage early.

7. Build wealth and give! Invest in mutual funds, real estate, whatever!

Go to his website and listen to his radio show if you want all the details, but the process has worked for thousands of people (they call in every friday.)

Personally I'm on step 2, getting rid of my debts. It does feel great when I kill off some balance I owe, and in the six months I've been doing it I've paid off $7000+ in debt and haven't borrowed another cent.

I could be doing better at the entire plan but as long as you are mentally and financially (emergency fund) prepared to never borrow another cent, and you make all your payments, you will get out of debt eventually.

"Cue the people on their high-horses who brag about being "debt- free" and living within their means, while laying down and expecting blow jobs from everyone riddled with debt."

Actually, I prefer my blowjobs standing. As a bonus, I'll make one of your Mastercard payments if you swallow.

/was in DEEP debt
//paid it off
///amazing what not having $900/month in interest payments will do for your cash flow
//// you can buy more useless crap if you pay cash
//// debt is farking slavery! don't sell yourself!