it can be anyone because the gov'ment really has the money,time and will to lock up random people for no reason. Why? Because farkers tell you so.

moothemagiccow, right, and I see we are not getting tortured at all, all the American POW's are treated with love and humanity.

Saul T. Saahk: Can anyone else confirm this?

Yes, I was actually talking about that in another thread. We got steak and shrimp every Friday depending on what base we were at.

thatguyfred

The fact is that it will NOT be me or my family.

I have to go; that black helicoptor just flew over my house again.

Do I have to explain to you that that was just a joke?

The long road to Gitmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU1eXwWPCIk

Why bother spending years and thousands of dollars going to law school when you can spend a few weeks in Boot Camp and become judge and jury at the same time?

"He's a terrorist because this grunt said so!"

themoreilikemydogs: The fact is that it will NOT be me or my family.

The gears in your head just don't turn do they?

You mean like the constitution that dosn't apply to them because they aren't citizens? That one?

Obvious?

the Geneva Convention doesn't mean shiat here. its a non-issue

the farking UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION says *everyone* has the right to a fair trial. not just americans. not just white people. not just christians.

anyone in the custody of a country founded by the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is to be protected by every single right layed out in said consitution. period. there is no grey area. there are no 'buts,' there are no exceptions.

i don't care if its someone who has been accused of theft or someone who has been accused of killing thousands. they still have the same exact rights as me

thatguyfred

Those gears stopped when I started talking to you:)

Anyway I guess we will agree to disagree.

From your other posts I take it you are in the military?

If so, from one American to another....THANKS.

And I mean that.

Does anyone still believe the government's claims about Gitmo? If you do, you are officially a sucker and I'd like to sell you a Californian bridge, no personal checks accepted.

/I hear Gitmo detainees spend most of their time eating ice cream and watching movies with the guards
//rolls eyes

what are high-top trainers?

themoreilikemydogs:

because if in the future our soldiers get captured, we dont want them tortured or executed

you are quite wrong Elephantman, there are quit alot of people who give a fark. quite alot.

i want a cheeto

thatguyfred

ps. Do not let anyone on fark know you are military.

They will hate your guts.

Civilian killer.

themoreilikemydogs: ps. Do not let anyone on fark know you are military.

They will hate your guts.

Civilian killer.

Its BABY KILLER get it right ;)

Weaver95: These people are still human beings. They deserve the same basic rights as all of us.

Those words have so much meaning to a 12 year old with a bomb strapped to him as his mother is beaten in the streets for having her ankle uncovered.

I don't care if its someone who has been accused of theft or someone who has been accused of killing thousands. they still have the same exact rights as me

Ba-da-buh-DA-buh-DAH! FALSE.

The president and the military can indefinitely incarcerate any non-US citizen who they have reason to believe will participate in a war against the US.

And in the case of the Guantanamo inmates, most of whom have never bothered to even deny their intentions upon leaving, there's not much debate.

hitnruni95

The Bush administration had hoped that by placing the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, they could avoid the reach of U.S. and international law.

However, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that American courts unquestionably have jurisdiction to rule on legal matters regarding detainees at Guantanamo Bay. It said, "aliens, no less than American citizens, are entitled to invoke the Federal courts' authority."

The court also rejected the government's argument that the Geneva Conventions regarding prisoners of war do not apply to those held at there.

What does this mean? While the ruling doesn't determine their guilt or innocence, it affirms the detainee's rights to challenge their incarceration without charge in U.S. courts.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/29/scotus.tribunals/index.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,201530,00.html

Frankly, I don't care what other people read unless it's a subject I'm interested in, but I LOL'd at the headline. I bet they have a real big selection down there in gitmo. It's something to pass the freaking time - if they didn't have Harry Potter, it'd be some sappy Fabio romance novel. Because it's all they freaking have. I bet if they'd pass out porn mags or qurans, the most popular book would be different.

I'f you've ever spent more than a day in jail, you know that if you get bored enough, the freaking label on your toothpaste becomes an exciting read.

/how cute - the turrists like Harry Potter books
//slow news day?

I am amazed how many in this thread apparently absorbed whole hog the zany post-national notion that if something is illegal somewhere it should be illegal here, OR that we should comply with every single international plee regarding our laws. We have our justice system, not France's.

...doesn't the Constitution only apply to citizens?

Here's a little reading material for those of you who have managed to wear blinders to the horrors of Guantanamo till now. If, after reading that, you can still feel that the U.S. can maintain even a shred of its moral authority in the world under this administration, then you'll believe anything. Oh, and Bush said to send me all your money.

Atario

It's a blog.....you poor thing.

saintwrathchild:
...doesn't the Constitution only apply to citizens?

Nope, else you could legaly kill illegals in the street, as the law wouldn't apply to them. Pretty much, anyone held by the US as a prisoner has certain rights, by the very fact we are holding them.

Atario:

I read it on the interwebs. It has to be true.

Here's a funny thing:

When I was in the USAF, and stationed at a base in England, I did not have the protections of the US Constitition unless I was to be courts-martialed. I was otherwise subject to the laws and policies of Her Majesty's Government, with the exception of such items as might be in a Status Of Forces Agreement

When I was deployed to various places, it was the same. Female officers in Saudi Arabia could not drive a Humvee, had to wear a head-scarf and nobody could have a beer. If the chaplains went off base, they could be arrested. If we got in trouble with the local law, and it was something that was otherwise not felonious and just little difference between US legal custom and theirs, the usual solution was to have a release negotiated by the local consulate and the military would remove the individual from country, permanently. Otherwise, welcome to the Turkish prison, airman.

So why do some people think that the protections of the US Constitution apply to people who are not US Citizens and are not present on US territory? It doesn't seem to work the other way around.

The only guide for treatment of prisoners in an armed conflict are the Geneva Conventions and other treaties.

Do you know what the customary treatment of un-uniformed irregular combatants is, in accordance with the Geneva Convention and all traditions and laws of warfare? Death by firing squad, at the point of capture. This is what certain members of US Special forces expect if captured, should they integrate with indigenous forces and not be in uniform. They willingly waive their protections under the Geneva Convention as a part of volunteering for their mission.

There's only one thing to be said in this matter: Quid Pro Quo.

I did it again. I responded to an idiot.

If they were arrested while engaging in military activities (i.e. killing people) while not adhering to the requirements to be recognized as legitimate combatants, then they have no rights whatsoever. The fact that the US doesn't allow them to be shot on the spot is not due to any obligations under international law, it's only for practical reasons of looking like the good guy and encouraging the enemy to surrender more easily.

Basic requirements of the geneva conventions are:
1. wear a uniform
2. be subject to a military chain of command
3. carry arms openly

NukeEuropeNow

This isn't about the geneva convention, idiot

its about the farking Constitution of the United States and the rights the Constitution gives to every human being on the face of the farking planet

farking moron

NukeEuropeNow:
If they were arrested while engaging in military activities (i.e. killing people) while not adhering to the requirements to be recognized as legitimate combatants, then they have no rights whatsoever.

No, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

More money is spent on meals for detainees than on those for the US troops stationed there, the list claimed.

That is utter horseshiat. I remember hearing about one of the people who was released and that he HATED beans because that was all they were fed there.

/they must be magic beans
//magically filling cheneys pockets
///thank you halliburton fairy

themoreilikemydogs: It's a blog.....you poor thing.

I read it on the interwebs. It has to be true.

Rolling Stone Magaizine is a blog? Wow, they've really widened the definition...

Surprise, they aren't American's. The Constitution doesn't protect these terrorist bastards. Same way it doesn't cover stinking wetbacks.

UKerupt

the Constitution applies to all human beings, not just Americans

QFT

And wouldn't you know nobody seems to be able refute or rebut your original post with actual.. facts!

Purple Hayes

And wouldn't you know nobody seems to be able refute or rebut your original post with actual.. facts!

The US Constitution specifies the form and limited powers of the US Federal government, and furthermore enumerates things that the Federal (and sometimes State) government are forbidden to do.

OK, here's some facts to refute UKerupt's original thesis that the US Constitution does applies to all people on earth:

- Exercise Christianisty, Buddhism, Judaism, Shintoism in Saudi Arabia or other theocracy: prison or death.

- Exercise the individual right to keep and bear arms, outside of a standing army (i.e. as part of the militia), in nearly every other country in the world: fines, prison, possibly shot on the spot

- The US Constitution requires that the US Federal government guarantee a republican (small 'r') form of government to each state and to protect each from invasion. Explain dictatorships, then. Contrariwise, this clause affords authority to the US Federal government to invade and overthrow any government on the planet which is not republican (small 'r') in nature.

- "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States." No, Tony Blair cannot run for president. Neither can Nelson Mandela.

- Amendment XIII abolishes slavery, except as punishment for a crime following conviction. Slavery is routinely practiced in Sudan, although it is officially banned. The Sudanese government exerts little effort to curb the practice. Sex slavery and child slavery exist elsewhere.

- Article I, Section 7 empowers Congress "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;" I think other nations might have a problem with the US providing arms to their citizens (militia) and retaining them for service to the USA.

- In US legal tradition, someone if innocent until proven guilty, and may not be compelled to testify against oneself. This is not the case in most authoritarian governments, dictatorships or theocracies. See: most of Africa, Middle East.

QED: the US Constitution does not hold sway over all people on the planet. -OR- The US Constitution does have authority over all people on the planet, and there is no government in existence willing to enforce it universally.

No_47
More money is spent on meals for detainees than on those for the US troops stationed there

There's more detainees than US troops, isn't there?

DING DING DING we have a winner.

They didn't say they spend more per meal, just that they spent more on meals.

10 detainee meals at $1 each = $10
1 guard meal at $5 each = $5

Look, we spent twice as much on detainee meals!

Departing detainees are given .... and a pillow and blanket for the flight home.

Oh, isn't that loveley.

It sure trumps being innocent, tortured and detained for years without evidence or fair trial.

No wonder they call the US the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Because most terrorists are(hopefully)not American, the Constitution does not apply to them.

2006-09-16 06:59:23 PM UKerupt

"the amazing thing about the Constitution is that it applies to all human beings, not just Americans. You dont have to be an American to have freedom of speech, or a fair trial, or from having soldiers living in your home during times of war."


When they become citizens of this country, then the constitution will apply, until then DFWTUS