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(Yahoo)   Group of Palestinians begin to speak out against suicide bombers   ( ) divider line 146
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5288 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jul 2002 at 3:07 PM (13 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2002-07-03 05:44:04 PM  
Heh. You know, when Palestinians are shown in the media, they are portrayed as dirt poor, starving refugees living in mud huts. Not as people living in 3 story homes with computers and talking to people in New York on the telephone.
2002-07-03 05:49:28 PM  
Thanks McUNHnugget! I feel much better now!!!
2002-07-03 05:49:31 PM  
I think this is the survey that is often referred to. This is a more recent survey, same topics, same source. Several surveys have continued for some time, and can produce some interesting results, such as this one from the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. As usual, the results seem to depend upon the questions being asked, and opinion polls tend to be a crapshoot anyway.
2002-07-03 05:51:14 PM  
"Please "assure" me of evidence showing that the majority of Israelis think that Palestinians aren't human."

Kid, I think you might be right. Kudos.

It came out wrong. The majority of Israelis DO NOT think Palestinians are sub-humans - terrorists maybe, sub-human, no.

"Or did you just pull that idiotic statement out of your arse as usual?"

Heh, cute.
Anyway, on to slighly more serious things.

"So what's your opinion on the destruction of EVERY SINGLE Jewish community in Arab nations, all of which occured in the last 50 years?"

That was bad, but Israel was just as dirty-handed. You purposely haven't mentioned the Zionist violence on 400 (or above) Palestinian villages, which Ariel Sharon was a big part of. Several thousand refugees were created. During the early seventies, the same violence and ethnic cleansing appeared, which "the man of peace" (as dubbed by the chimp), Ariel Sharon was again a part of.
2002-07-03 05:51:18 PM  
FYI Azahol

Our founding fathers were passionate and brilliant men the likes of which have not been seen since. There is more character in one of their pinkie fingers than in all of Palestine.

You are obviously not a student of history so I won't even try and present historical information to you. You are a cut-and-paste thinker - simply extracting a juicy bit from this story or that and then weaving it together into your web of political belief. Big on facts and big on conclusions, but short on analysis and utterly lacking good faith.

Palestinians, like all human beings, deserve the opportunity to seek a good life. This is the mission of the West, America and Israel, to bring such an understanding to all of the world's people. But such a noble dream is a rich target for those who, motivated by envy, attempt only to tear down and destroy the progress of freedom. And that is exactly what the Palestinians have done - and woe be to them, for standing in the way of their own liberation.
2002-07-03 05:53:30 PM  
From Azazel's Bio:
"However, just recently, someone decided that, because I posted pictures of what our war was actually doing, that I was a troll, and I was put on the troll list - without so much as a warning."

Gee, I wonder how they came to that conclusion?

I would respond to your post, and deconstruct it, but I am off to begin my weekend celebration of our right to have these "debates."

"If our murderous and cruel actions were justified given the situation, their actions are as well."

Justifying the killing of innocent civilians through terrorism...

*shakes head*
2002-07-03 05:57:54 PM  
Look. The land is Israel. It has been for nearly 4000 years. The people that destroyed Israel throughout the ages are evil and their acts should not stand. When Israel declared its independence, the wrong that was the previous destruction of Israel was righted and a people were justly restored to their land and to their nation.

All kinds of arguments can make sense, but only some are TRUE. You can scream until your blue in the face, but Israel is the land of the Jews. Sorry.
2002-07-03 05:59:17 PM  
'...the destruction of jewish communities in other arab countries doesn't change the morality of Israeli vs. Palestinian (and vice versa) actions, unless you're saying transfer of rage against one group of people to another group of people soley due to shared religious beliefs is justified.'

I find this statement interesting because you seem to be supporting transfer of rage against one group of people (the Isreali military) to another group of people(Isreali women and children buying food in a market) soley due to shared religious beliefs.
2002-07-03 06:00:22 PM  
"Palestinians, like all human beings, deserve the opportunity to seek a good life. This is the mission of the West, America and Israel, to bring such an understanding to all of the world's people."

Holy cow, talk about pretentious bullshiat. If there's a some sort of bullshiat meter, that baby's gonna go off the chart after hearing that mother of a lie. I mean, that statement (and you, after reading some of your stuff) is just the epitome of stupidity.
2002-07-03 06:00:45 PM  
Azazel: "the destruction of jewish communities in other arab countries doesn't change the morality of Israeli vs. Palestinian (and vice versa) actions"

No it does not, but it does call into question the sincerity of those who condemn Israel's actions toward Arabs, while remaining silent about oppressive activity directed toward Jews in the Arab world. It also says something about a group that does not choose to sit around blaming others for its problems and killing the children of its perceived oppressors, but instead goes on to live productive lives elsewhere.
2002-07-03 06:04:44 PM  
Hey Azz

Good of you to mention the U.N. How did the refugee camps that they administer become literally "suicide factories" as one Palestinian described Jenin? 50 years of UN refugee administration and billions of dollars later, and a people who needed help have become the poorest and most hate-filled people on the planet, due to the propaganda schools run by the UN dollars. Way to go UN!
2002-07-03 06:05:42 PM  
"Look. The land is Israel. It has been for nearly 4000 years. The people that destroyed Israel throughout the ages are evil and their acts should not stand."

What the hell? No one's denying Israel's right to exist. It has every right to exist in peace. Its people deserve to enjoy themselves at restaurants and discos without being blown up. No one's doubting that.
2002-07-03 06:06:02 PM  
Well, we've had the Godwin's Law invocation, and now the "supporters of the Palestinians are closet Jew-haters" crowd is coming out.

We're one good "you're just a tool of the Jew-controlled media" comment from this thread completely hitting the shiatter.
2002-07-03 06:06:38 PM  

Cynics are always right, but rarely loved.
2002-07-03 06:06:55 PM  

What Azazel she failed to mention in her bio is that she was posting pictures in a photoshop thread. Right, Azazel, why didn't you mention that in your bio? Was it on topic? Was it appropriate?
2002-07-03 06:13:41 PM  
It is strange... for the first time, I find myself cheering the development of the Qassam-2 rocket... cheering the development of a weapon.

And that should scare the hell out of you. The Qassam-2 is still little better than a bottle rocket, anyway, despite Islamic Jihad's pimping.

Everyone knows, in their heart, how this will end if it is to end peacefully (ie; no genocides, no nukes). I'll keep saying this, because I think it's true.
2002-07-03 06:15:39 PM  
This maybe cynical, but I don't trust'em.
2002-07-03 06:22:11 PM  
'Because, unfortunately, it is the only way to end the horror on both sides. Until the Palestinians can stand up to Israeli military equiptment, attacks on "soft targets" like we did in our past will continue.'

The Palestinians could just stop murdering Israeli women and children. That'd give the peace process one hell of a shot in the arm. From what cursory attention I've paid to this conflict, it seems that every Israeli attack is in response to attacks made upon them.
2002-07-03 06:26:34 PM  
just like the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, still advocated by many in sharon's coalition government, would be

Still nothing to say about the ethnic cleansing of nearly a million Jewish people from all the arab nations. I guess some cleansings are sexier!

suicide bombings are generally done by little more than a small handful of individuals - one person who has lost all hope for the world and their life in the face of the occupation and would do anything that they think would have the chance of changing it, even if it meant their own life - and the much darker figures who plan and facilitate such actions.

Wrong. Suicide bombings are a cultural phenomenon with the Palestinians. They teach it in schools, celebrate it at parties, joke about it at reunions - their "government" and entire society from cradle to grave is completely organized around the principle of suicide murder.

And most suicide killers are middle class - not the truly poor and desperate. The families from which the bombers come are usually well known families - the leaders of their community. This is excellence and civic achievement in that society, not the craven fumblings of a wayward and angst-ridden teen.
2002-07-03 06:33:53 PM  
While Palestine may not have the ability to completely stop suicide bombers, they can stop reverring them as heroes and start treating them like people who walked into a crowded public place and deliberately killed a bunch of people who wanted nothing to do with the conflict. This reverence is what angers people and causes them to come to the conclusion that Palestinians are bloodthirsty animals who don't give a damn about peace and just want to kill as many Jews as they possibly can.
2002-07-03 06:36:59 PM  
Rei, you are a fool. Who do you think pays for the schools that teach hatred of Jews in Palestine? The schools are run by the UN and other aid groups and these groups have not protested the use of these textbooks which incite hatred. All you need to do is do a google for "UN Palestinian Schools" and you can read the countless research documenting what is taught in Palestinian schools and who runs these schools and ought to be responsible for whats going on there. Why has the UN allowed the refugees camps it adminsters to become cesspools of hatred and murder??? That is the question I asked, and I am certainly not ashamed or regretful of the "stupidity" of such a question.
2002-07-03 06:37:03 PM  
Do I hear Rei with her passionate debating zeal?
2002-07-03 06:41:27 PM  
'On the other hand, if the Israeli government orders the withdrawl of its military, it ends right there.'

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You poor, poor fool. No, then the suicide bombings would begin taking place further into Isreali territory. The occupied territories were taken when every Muslim country decided to attack Isreal on one of the Jewish holy days. So Isreal stomped them and took some territory to give them some breathing room for the next time their neighbor decided to kill them(They then offered to give this territory back in a subsequent peace discussion. They were turned down). Muslims were attacking Isreal before the territories were occupied, and will continue to do so as long as their are both Jews and Muslims in the region. This largely has to do with the fact that Muslims are incapable of living in peace with different cultures. Historically, Muslims have entered into conflict with just about every other culture they came into contact with. It can be seen today in Indonesia, Bosnia, and various other countries. It largely has to do with the fact that 'Kill anyone who isn't a Muslim' is a main tenet of their religion.
2002-07-03 06:49:32 PM  
Ironbar:I say we pull American financial support for Israel now, and support moderates on both sides.

Yes...I agree with you ironbar. Yes.


Oh... and also Yes.
2002-07-03 06:51:13 PM  
the only thing they have in common is that they have lost the will to live


Quit. You're making it worse!

Palestinians go to murder people precisely because they have gained the will and courage to live more fully!, i.e. by killing infidels and Jews. This is not desperation, this is glory! And even you glory in it - armchair Jew-killer that you are with your love of rockets, and your logic of "murder = struggle."

I must now leave. I blow up and then I'm gone...
2002-07-03 06:52:04 PM  
sorry bout the tags
2002-07-03 06:53:01 PM  
Azazel I went back and looked at the thread.

I do see some debate, but I don't see any inappropriate pictures posted. If there were, they (along with yours) were deleted. The fact that others may have been acting out of line, does not dimish the fact that you were as well. It also doesn't change the fact that in taking a shot at Fark (in your bio) for deleting pictures that were deemed inappropriate, you fail to mention that it occured in a photoshop thread. Your criticism of Fark is incomplete at best and more likely dishonest.
2002-07-03 06:57:45 PM  
Listen, you're not buying any support here with your "UN is deliberately indoctrinating palestinians to hate jews because they do"

He is. I've been looking at those facts for a long time.

Fact: The "refugee camps" are run by the UN, and have been for decades

Fact: The schools in those camps teach hatred, murder, and the fact that there is no such thing as Israel -- they teach that the whole region is, and ought to be, Palestine, and that Jews should leave

Fact: The UN funds and backs these schools

In other words, the UN knows, aids, abets, and pays for the indoctrination into terror that the Palestinians get.

Would you care to get some facts before telling us something that is completely wrong?

Ask anyone else here on Fark.

OK. I'll be glad to stand up, back him, and tell you you're as ignorant as you are wrong.

See? That was easy.
2002-07-03 06:59:18 PM  
My name has more to do with a tendency to fall off of very tall things in various first person shooters than it does to strapping a bomb to my chest and killing women and children.

'Because they have no other way to fight, like we did.'
I hope you're not referring to the US Revolutionary War. The continental militia fought the British army. They did not send over terrorists to kill British women and children. The Palestinians could get some rifles(I've read that Kalishnikovs are dirt cheap in the Middle East) and fight a goddamn war.
2002-07-03 07:03:48 PM  
No, then the suicide bombings would begin taking place further into Isreali territory.

What, any further than Rishon Letzion, Haifa, and such? About the only place that hasn't been hit, that I can think of offhand, is Tel Aviv - and probably even there.

Muslims were attacking Isreal before the territories were occupied, and will continue to do so as long as their are both Jews and Muslims in the region.

There were Jews living alongside Muslims in Palestine all along. It was a small population, the remnants of the ancient states of Israel and Judah, but it was there.

And even you glory in it - armchair Jew-killer that you are with your love of rockets, and your logic of "murder = struggle.

See my "pro-Palestinian == Jew-hater" statement earlier.
2002-07-03 07:10:35 PM  
fanaticism usually takes the voice of the majority its a tried and true tradition of the human race...finally someone spoke out against them

if they attacked more military targets and not busyin themselves glorifying death the rest of the world would be more sympathetic to their cause...
they can't compare to the American Civil war. Yes maybe they sacrificed their lives for a noble cause, but not to civilian targets that have no strategic value...Maybe some raping and pillaging but most of them have that honour system back then.. But dressin up babies to be suicide bombers and making the suicide bombings on civilian targets a normal tactic? I'm sorry thats just farkin wrong..Palistinians have the right to protect their land but their doing it the wrong way..well to the rest of us i guess..Anyways I don't remember reading any rednecks or yanks in the civil war sprinting into civilian targets full of explosives :)

i end my rant
2002-07-03 07:34:25 PM  
Perhaps I had the wars confused. It has been some time since I read up on Isreali history. But there is a difference between imperialistic expansion and getting enough space around your nation so that you'll have a little more warning and room to work with the next time your religious zealot neighbors decide that they want to kill your entire population. Though I do think that there's no reason to have a buffer zone if you're going to settle the goddamn thing.

And as for the bloodthirstiness of Islam, I gave data. I listed a handful of countries that have recently had violence involving Muslims. A few more: the Arab invasion of Spain that spurred the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades, the handful of South American countries that are now engaged in civil war(I forget their names. Go do your own research. That's what the liberals tell me when I demand evidence from them), and the Pakistan/India conflict.
2002-07-03 08:05:46 PM  

To say that America's conflict with Britain is similar to the Israel/Palestine conflict is intellectually dishonest at best. First, a small pond called the atlantic separated the 2 nations, making territory/border issues decidedly less sticky. Second, as has been mentioned, US militias did not strike civilian targets in Britain. Third, neither Britain nor the US had any historical claim or religious ties to the land of North America. Fourth, the British "occupation" of the US was not the result of an attempt by the US to invade and destroy Britain. The comparison is superficial and trite and trivializes not only the American revolutionaries, but the Palestinian cause as well.

If you really had the best interest of the Palestinians at heart, you would realize that armed struggle is the only way _not_ to achieve your goal. You would also realize that those who support this armed struggle see the establishment of a Palestinian state as a roadblock in their quest for the destruction of Israel.

And I stand by you MorticianBoy, I have seen these UN sponsored cirriculums. They are real and sickening.
2002-07-03 08:26:32 PM  
the palestinians get far more aid from america, the UN, and assorted illegal donations by arab countries. what do they use it for? targeting israeli citizens. the more jews they kill, the better. and these people want their own state? so they can grow a bigger army and be more of a threat to israels existance? not a chance.

any peace loving person hasnt thought of that one, thats for sure
2002-07-03 08:37:13 PM  
its kinda like the tree huggers not letting the forest service manage the forests out in arizona and colorado...
2002-07-03 08:42:57 PM  
the same theory of destruction=peace applied when we dropped the atomic bombs on Japan. if we had just let the war continue until an invasion took place, it was projected that millions would be lost due to the fanaticism of the japanese people. instead of killing millions, we destroyed that fanaticism by dropping two "little" nukes (are there little ones?) the death toll: around 275,000, instead of the millions. now, what brings less death, destruction? or peace?
the answer, oddly, and ironically, is destruction.
the killing of a widely held idea (fanaticism in general) proved much more effective than any assault on the japanese home islands. perhaps history will repeat itself...

da da daaaaa.....
2002-07-03 09:06:33 PM  
Israel needs to end the occupation.

Only a racist can support the master race who occupies a sub-human race.
2002-07-03 10:02:11 PM  
07-03-02 09:06:33 PM Hoosier
"Only a racist can support the master race who occupies a sub-human race."

Huh?? Are you saying Palestinians are a "sub-human" race? Sounds like you are the racist to me. You dirty race-hating racist!
2002-07-03 11:23:25 PM  
OYE! I read almost everything. He's my take:
1) US invades middle east.
2) after swift and sweeping win occupy everything
3) sell area to EXXON, Microsoft and Disney.
4) have 35cent gal of gas for all
5) have Disney set up Holyland disney with all the appropriate rides
6) Make UN patrol the place
7) pull our boys out and finally
8) Everybody wins!!!!!
2002-07-03 11:42:04 PM  

McUNHnugget: I said that stuff about the traffic problems with tounge firmly in cheek. Get the stick out of your ass.

Forgive me, but I'm sick of Isreal. I'm sick of a bunch of radical nut bags killing each other over a pile of sand. I'm sick of both sides trying to justify such a stupid war. And I'm sick of people hating the US because of other peoples wars.

My people(the Jews) already have a holy land, it's called "Palm Beach, Flordia".

2002-07-04 12:24:58 AM  
abby, israel was created and supported by the major superpowers after WWII because they didnt want the jewish refugees from the concentration camps. so they threw them with the arabs, funded the rebels with money and weapons, and figured the jews wouldnt last a year.

Hoosier - once again you spew your ignorant BS. they occupy to protect themselves. the israelis do not consider themselves the master race. they just know if they didnt take such steps to protect their people, there wouldnt be a race of jews at all in the middle east.

so please, read a few books on the history of israel, shut your mouth, and concentrate on finishing middle school. thx
2002-07-04 01:07:01 AM  
I know this may seem unpatriotic but our founding fathers were not the heros most people think of them to be. The only reason they are so revered is that the US won the revolutionary war. Imagine if the British won: George Washington a terrorist leader, colonists supporters of terror, Ben Franklin terrorist mastermind, French wimpy supporters of terror(Still are). So it isn't history so much as who writes it. If Isreal didn't win the 1947 war, the arabs would brag about beating the better equipped Isrealis who were harassing them constantly and were forced to attack because Isreal gained independence and officially took over Palestinian lands. All of the attacking arab armies at the time combined were still only 1/3 of Isreal's army. ( 21,000 to 63,000)
The truth speaks for itself but history speaks for its writer.
2002-07-04 01:20:39 AM  
blackfalcon... as a wise man once said... "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter."

BTW- the israelis were the outnumbered ones during every war
2002-07-04 01:27:06 AM  
Hey Theblackfalcon
Go to Israel, or the so-called Palestine, and see how long you want to stay there. The Palestinians would execute you for what you just said. So quit trying to spin your idiotic play of what ifs.
2002-07-04 02:50:42 AM  
Lcross: you would be foolish to believe that history is an absolute account of past events. History is always written by the winner. And saying that you will die for stating that fact doesn't make it any less true.

Anyway, I have a plan:

1. Develop alternative power sources besides fossil fuels
2. After we get some alternatives, stop buying oil from the middle east.
3. Stop sending money/equipment/supplies to Israel at the same time.
4. Watch both sides continue to duke it out, albeit at a much lower technology level.
5. Use floating hover cams to televise the fighting for our amusement.
6. When the fighting dies down in 50 or 60 thousand years, roll in the grav tanks and robot marines and take over.
7. Build Holyland Disneyworld.
2002-07-04 04:38:04 PM  
tairngire, dont be ignorant. israel has almost every technology america does. they also have more active army batallions.

the only thing holding israel back from wipping out the palestinian terrorists is america. america doesnt want to piss off their oil buddies in the surrounding arab countries, so they promise to keep israel from doing an all out assault.
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