dbaggins: well, we all know THAT didn't happen.

Heh.

How can anyone not be laughing their asses off over this? On one hand we have the whole "we don't negotiate with terrorists" mindset, yet on the other hand we also have the whole "leave no man behind" mantra.

So which is it? Do we or don't we negotiate with terrorists... or is it dependent on the situation and who's involved? Either way we're hypocrits and yet completely absolved for it by having both options open.

pontechango
Yes, success. They captured the reporters, released them, and remain unidentified. That's successful operation. The only variable that would define their operation as unsuccessful is if their ransom was not met, which is unknown.



they are not out of the woods yet. In fact, not even half way through the woods. Most kidnappers are apprehended after the victims release.

The victims often supply a wealth of information that betray their former captures.

These guys are a long way away from Mission Accomplished

Pontechango

"downtownkid: Umm, let's see, maybe because EVERY Palestinian with any credibility spoke out against this action?

According to whom?"


Ummm, how about Hamas:

The prime minister assured the Fox News representatives that Palestinian security forces would use all their power to "put an end to it soon," said government spokesman Ghazi Hamad said, without elaborating.

Khaled Abu Hilal, a spokesman for the Hamas-controlled Interior Ministry, said the kidnapping of Fox correspondent Steve Centanni, of Washington, D.C., and cameraman Olaf Wiig, of New Zealand, was harming Palestinian interests.

"We were shocked at their demands because we don't need a new door of hostility opened with the U.S.," he said.

But hey, you probably have much better information than those guys, right?

Shakey sources, for sure, but it's much more likely that they would do this for a Fox crew. If they were NY Times reporters, their heads would be on platters by now.

"...the public demand was not serious and that the group's "real demands" were..."

"...reason for their release was only a camouflage to conceal the fact that the U.S..."

I've taken these out of context to illustrate how the real world works - at home and abroad, from political kidnappings, to 911, to JFK.

Lubricating life with lies -- I guess this sort of thing just takes a little getting used to.

I'm still not quite there yet.

dbaggins: they are not out of the woods yet. In fact, not even half way through the woods. Most kidnappers are apprehended after the victims release.

In the United States maybe, but not in Palestine.


downtownkid: Ummm, how about Hamas:

True. But we don't know if they had any influence on the kidnappers.

albo: remember, when something "sounds likely to be true," it's called an "urban legend"


The best lies sound like they are true.

This whole thing smells false...a face saving measure to make it seem like they got something (ie damage control).

I mean, you are running an unknown terrorist group that has little credibility and no visibility. You swipe a few reporters in order to remedy those deficiencies and the US gov't refuses to negotiate and tells you to fark off.

Thus, with little to gain by killing them (your group is probably too minor to survive that) you release them with some bs excuse and then circulate rumors that your demands were actually met via "secret" negotiations (no one would believe an American denial) which allow you to take credit for things that haven't happened yet (shelling activist homes...if Israeli starts doing it again it will be chalked up to Israeli dishonesty) or things that would have happened anyway (Rafah).

Bones3D_mac: The leave no man behind refers to physically recusing the prisoners. Which we try if possible. We used to negotiate release of prisoners of war though, that was often a bad idea though untill AFTER the fighting was over.

So, why is it that the wingnut conservatives believe that only a Democrat would appease terrorists? All politicians, regardless of stripe, go through their careers telling people exactly what they want to hear. This includes you.

Do you really have that much faith in any politician?

Stop being a cheerleader. They're almost all scum, and the ones in power now are certainly no better than average.

pontechango


True. But we don't know if they had any influence on the kidnappers.


Hamas has a large & loyal military wing. Unless this group is a Fatah affiliate Hamas doesn't have to "convince" them to release the hostages.

Rescue even. recussing. Damn you prisoners, die die die.!!

BrooklynBum . If they were NY Times reporters, their heads would be on platters by now.

didn't you get the Coulter talking points ? by now the NY Times reporters would be unshaved and wrapped in scarfs behaving objectively pro-terror, while shooting into the air.

EdNortonsTwin: Lubricating life with lies -- I guess this sort of thing just takes a little getting used to.

I'm still not quite there yet.

The public demand (as dbaggins cited) and the public rationale for the release were both ridiculous. Either these guys really were clowns (successful clowns) or somebody's not telling us the whole story.

/gotta go

GodLovesBeer
Ohhh Canada, stfu.

As if anyone who matters in the US watches Fox News either...

Devin172: Hamas doesn't have to "convince" them to release the hostages.

Let me put it a different way, Hamas may have been putting on a show.

/outta here

Pontechango,

Call me a wuss, but if the guys with the guns are seriously pissed at me for something I have done I just might listen.

pontechango,

Why flee when you've just been proven wrong?

If we all convert to islam just like those reporters did then there would be peace in the world ...
and women would have to have 4 male witnesses to prove they were raped in any sexual attack. How can men not get behind that program.

Jument
You can take up issue with FOX all you want, I don't give a shait. I for one am glad they made it home alive.

Amy Sly: Why flee when you've just been proven wrong?


Nobody has been proved anything. This whole thread is speculation.

pontechango: Let me put it a different way, Hamas may have been putting on a show.

/outta here


Ahh true. They've seen how being implicated in a kidnapping turns out after all.

Amy Sly,

I like the cut of your jib.

I'm glad this got out. Not because it has anythig to do with whethor or not it impowers terrorists; back-room deals are widely known to happen, but because it places demands on the USG to negotiate for the return of every US citizen. Not just people who are well connected or work for it's neo-con propoganda matrix.

Good job Ross.

Jack Johnson - Crying Shame

It's such a tired game
Will it ever stop?
How will this all play out
out of sight out of mind

By now we should know how to communicate
Instead of coming to blows, We're on a roll
And there ain't no stopping us now
We're burning under control
Isn't it strange how we're all
Burning under the same sun?

By now and save, it's a war for peace
It's the same old game
But do we really want to play?
We could close our eyes it's still there

We could say it's us against them
We could try but nobody wins

Gravity has got a hold on us all
We could try to put it out
But it's a growing flame
Using fear as fuel
Burning down our name
And it won't take too long
Words all burn the same
And who are we going to blame now?

It's such a crying, crying, crying shame

By now it's beginning to show
A number of people are numbers that ain't coming home
I could close my eyes it's still there
Close my mind be alone
I could close my heart and not care
But gravity has got a hold on us all

It's a terrific price to pay
But in the true sense of the word
Are we using what we've learned?
In the true sense of the word
Are we losing what we were?

It's such a tired game
Will it ever stop?
It's not for me to say
Is it in our blood
Or is just our fate?
And how will this all play out
out of sight, out of mind
Who are we going to blame all in all?

It's such a crying, crying, crying shame

/Support our Troops
//Get 'em out

You know how I know you're gay? You just posted Jack Johnson lyrics.

My apologies, that's actually an insult to homosexuals. You just suck. No, not in that way.

farking shenanigans.

No, for wasting time and space quoting rather simplistic lyrics. I'm always up for reasoned debate, but if I wanted to hear Jack Johnson I would hang out at the freshman dorm.

griff61

I need to get a job with ABC, that way I can refer to "sources", use innuendo and connect the dots any way I like. I find it more amusing that a story can make it with not a shred of "fact". All you need is someone who is willing to believe anything about who the main target is and you're a journalistic genius. I might pay more attention when there's an actual name in there that lends believability, other than a government owned arab newspaper.

Because Fox talent always uses facts and nothing but the facts.... and Fox viewers always question what they watch.

/RIIIIIIIIIGHT

You gotta keep your propaganda people happy.

Abortions for some, tiny american flags for others...

I'm not surprised by this, even if it's true.

The public face has always said "no negotiating," but I've always believed there was lots of stuff going on out of the public eye in the smoke filled back rooms.

/The color of the sky in my world is blue. Well, bluish.

downtownkid


Jack Johnson - Wasting Time

Yeah,
And I'm just a waste of her, energy
And she's just wasting my time, Mmm hmm
So why don't we get together
And we could waste, everything, tonight
And we could waste, and we could waste it all, tonight

Yeah,
And we could waste, and we could waste it, all

And I don't pretend to know what you know, no na
Now please don't pretend to know what's on my mind
If we already knew everything that everybody knows
We would have, nothing to learn, tonight
And we would have, nothing to show, tonight
Oh

But everybody thinks that everybody knows
About everybody else, nobody knows
Anything, about themselves
Because they're all worried about everybody else
Yeah
Awe

Love's just a waste of our, energy, yeah
And this life's just a waste of our time
So why don't we get together
And we could waste, everything, tonight
And we could waste
And we could waste it all...
Yeah

But everybody thinks that
Everybody knows about
Everybody else no not
Nobody knows, anything, about themselves
Because they're all worried about everybody else yeah
Oh

And we could waste

Dumbass headline:

" The US doesn't negotiate with terrorists. Unless the negotiation could free some kidnapped Fox News reporters "

Obvious response:

How many of the Muslim terrorists that were demanded in exchange for the " Fox News " reporters were released in exchange for their freedom???

OK...since the poster is indeed a dumbass proven by is ( did I already say ) DUMBASS HEADLINE....

I'll tell you: ZERO

So, EINSTEIN.....I ask you ....WHAT NEGOTIATIONS???

I don't know about this. I can't tell whether this is a report of a deal based off real evidence, or if the opening of the Rafah crossing was going underway anyhow, and the sources just put forth their own theory as to why it happened (i.e. questioning the timing). That is, I can't tell whether the reopening of the border backs up the story or gave birth to it.

Let's see the Rafah crossing was opened by Israel on the 19th...and Centanni and Whiig were released on the 27th...over a week later. And has since been closed.

Also the opening of the Rafah crossing was something that has been in the works for a while, and something that Israel agreed to in early August.

But, it has to be becuase of Bush, and Fox News being butt buddies right?

/Get a brain morans!

2006-08-31 08:08:51 PMlibbynomore2

You must have been a liberal before the massive head injury?

I guess the question we need to ask ourselves is what if the journalists had been with other news network i.e nbc, cnn etc ? would the US gubment still negotiated with the terrorist or let them rot ?

/not trying to troll
//serious question

wow..for a site that posts news stories, it's amazing how many ignorant fools and morons try to comment on things that they SHOULD know, but just flat don't

" There are those who don't know....and then there are those who don't know that they don't know..."

The poster is but one of the many on this thread who fit this definition..

and that's incredibly sad to me

libbynomore2: So, EINSTEIN.....I ask you ....WHAT NEGOTIATIONS???

Because there's no way in hell the terrorists would agree to a "pile o' money" deal, even if no muslims were released.

That's why they call it negotiations.

Somacandra


" The whole point of it is that those "demands" may have been a PR stunt to cover the real demands. "


Ohhhh I see...another wild eyed conspiracy theory.....like the fake moon landing....Elvis isn't dead....Area 51....

Now I see.....but that doesn't change the fact that your dumbasses.....just a bit more paranoid....