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(Real Tech News)   10 reasons to stop hating the CFB light bulb and watch them change the world   (realtechnews.com) divider line 406
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32833 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2006 at 11:46 AM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-08-30 12:53:28 PM  
Kim Jong B Illin: CFL's are great, but you can't dim them, what fun is that? I'm waiting for cheap LED lights that are dimmable.


There are dimmable CFLs available but they are a bit more expensive than regular CFLs. I have 3 in the house myself.
 
2006-08-30 12:53:48 PM  
Uncle Karl: If your plan makes LEDs and only more efficient light bulbs legal than I am in full support.


I'd rather no lighting be illegal. I'd rather use 25W incandescents than 25W flourescents. I could deal with the low wattage incandescents. Spot lighting would take care of the need of light for reading and such.

/I actually prefer dim lighting with small bright spots for reading or work
 
2006-08-30 12:55:15 PM  
Kim Jong B Illin

There are dimmable CFBs, but they're usually a good bit more expensive. I found a couple of floods that were dimmable for about $10 each. I was looking online at some others that were more of the warm color and they were a lot more, closer to $20 each.

They are available, but not really that widely, i.e. at least not at your local Lowe's/Home Depot.
 
2006-08-30 12:55:22 PM  
I use CFL's in places that are a pain in the ass to change bulbs. I have them in my pantry and over the kitchen sink. I would use them more if they were brighter. Right now I have one in one of the kitchen ceiling fixtures. It works ok I guess, but it's a little dim for my liking.

Do they make brighter ones? I always look, but have never seen them if they do.


/don't give a shiat about energy savings as much as I like not having to change the light in the pantry.
//it's seriously a pain in the ass to get to.
///slashies don't care either way
 
2006-08-30 12:55:56 PM  
2006-08-30 12:30:16 PM Mnemia
Another thing that bugs me is that people seem to automatically reject a newer technology thinking like this simply because it is DIFFERENT from what they are used to.


Welcome to the past 25 years of American life.
 
2006-08-30 12:55:58 PM  
serpent_sky Ugh, no way! The lighting makes skin [especially pale skin] look horrible ...

Well, we have two flourescents out of four bulbs in that bathroom mirror light, and haven't noticed a change yet. Maybe when the ratio tilts, we will, but I'm naturally pale ... just click on my name. My girlfriend's not.

Which is my real point, I guess, for a lot of people on here who're the type not to budge. Change doesn't have to be this all-out, balls to the wall, I'm gunna replace every single bulb in the house (including the fishtank) sort of thing. But even one bulb-switch makes a significant impact - cheaper bills, less pollution, less time spent changing out stupid bulbs that blow up with power surges or fizzle after a measly two months of service.

As I count it, we have 8 flourescents and 12 incandescents in and out of the house, now. I'm about to switch out one more. In situations where the light is an issue, we use both as a sort of compromise.

But those eight bulbs have never needed to be replaced, and they're saving each saving us about .10-40 per day, based on how much we use them. I don't mind that sort of savings at all. And it doesn't seem like other people should either.
 
2006-08-30 12:56:10 PM  
Uncle Karl:
From office lighting I believe, that is at 60hz, but you mean to tell me you can notice a flicker at 10khz? That is utter bullshiat. This is a psychosomatic thing.

Aside from the fact that I don't wander around investigating lightbulbs until after I get the headache. It's not even so much actively noticing the flicker, anyway -- some people subconsciously process it, whether or not they are aware of it.

I can't see things on flat screen tvs that well, either.

Severe migraines, severe light sensitivity issues. Be glad you don't have them, because it sucks. Seriously.

It amazes me that people can sit under office lighting, trouble-free. That is, as I said, the worst culprit, but the smaller, in-house bulbs bother me, as well.
 
2006-08-30 12:57:04 PM  
Mnemia: The electronically switched ones (like CFLs, and most newer tube-style fixtures) do not.


I changed all my office lighting ballasts to those "high efficiency" electronic ballasts. It seems ok (I've only had 2 migranes at work since the change in over a year) but the bastards seem to die a lot. Out of about 40 ballasts, I've had to replace 5 so far.
 
2006-08-30 12:57:15 PM  
BTW - the reason Americans don't like CFLs is because they can't get used to 3-downs, 12 men on a side and a 55-year-line.
 
2006-08-30 12:58:08 PM  
Dread Pirate Slasher: Do they make brighter ones? I always look, but have never seen them if they do.


I've seen up to 150W equivalents.
 
2006-08-30 12:58:23 PM  
year=yard
 
2006-08-30 12:58:28 PM  
Maybe making them illegal is too much.

Fine then tax them at $100 a bulb. This way if you need them you can have them and if not you won't bother to get them.

Incandescant bulbs are another form of false savings. They are cheap to produce and purchase but the whole community gets stuck with the repercussions. Just like walmart and SUVs.
 
2006-08-30 01:01:03 PM  
Been using them ever since I was able to uhhhhhh *cough* acquire *cough* them from work.
 
2006-08-30 01:01:46 PM  
noeljb
I was in a hotel with several of these things. In the middle of the nite I realized they would flash every couple of minutes. VERY ANNOYING.

Near an airport? Radar energy will cause that.

SocrapticMethod
They simply "become DED's".

Dark Emitting Diodes?
 
2006-08-30 01:02:58 PM  
sylaak:
I've seen 600w equivilents that draw 150watts. Put that sucker on your front porch.
 
2006-08-30 01:03:14 PM  
My teenagers like the Daylight bulbs, which are very blue compared to daylight. So, for something complete different.

Also, if you are trying to get equal light, ignore the package. 60W equivalents are not. Try 75W or 100W instead. But beware that the higher equivalents are larger, so may not fit in some fixtures.

"Oh Noes, my outlet says 60W max!" That is based on incandescent power and temperature. A 100W CFL has a smaller draw and is MUCH cooler.
 
2006-08-30 01:03:24 PM  
I outfitted my entire house with CFL's when I moved in. The initial cost was OMGWTF but worth it. Electricity in Elizabeth City NC is uber expensive, but I've been managing to keep my bills well under $300 for my house, even with 2 pretty big window units running all the time. My neighbors, in similar but smaller houses (I have a monster den added on), with the same number of AC units but using incandescent bulbs end up with bills approaching $400. No lie.

/E-city power sucks
//and it goes out all the time
///like last night
////my pr0n was interrupted. No me gusta.
//Me gusta los slashies.
 
2006-08-30 01:05:15 PM  
Uncle Karl: Fine then tax them at $100 a bulb. This way if you need them you can have them and if not you won't bother to get them.

Why is the answer always legislation? Also, if power use is your complaint then why would you want to ban 25W incandescents? They use the same light as 25W CF. It makes no sense.

Incandescant bulbs are another form of false savings. They are cheap to produce and purchase but the whole community gets stuck with the repercussions. Just like walmart and SUVs.

My problem with CF is not price, it's the light that they produce. Price really doesn't matter to me.
 
2006-08-30 01:05:17 PM  
spmkk:

I agree. Why have a technical news website if you don't at least compare some hard figures instead of using stupid comparisons like "one lightbulb a person in America could save energy equivilant to 1.5 million people." Are we talking a Northern or Southern city? How about road usage? Public facilities? Stupid grammer school statistics, just show us the KwHr usage and then we can look at our bills and decide.
 
2006-08-30 01:06:27 PM  
Uncle Karl: Fine then tax them at $100 a bulb. This way if you need them you can have them and if not you won't bother to get them.
I think $100 is too much, but maybe it would be worthwhile to tax them so that they at least cost a little bit more than the CFLs do. The money raised from the tax could be used to fund research into energy conservation (or just used to fund a tax break on payroll taxes or something). Or it could just be used to fund the building and operation of new coal-fired power plants needed to keep up with the waste from the incandescents. That way, only the people who are being wasteful would be funding this to any large degree.
 
2006-08-30 01:06:41 PM  
Beemer

Yeah, but how am I supposed to dispose of them, since they have mercury? I currently have 3 bulbs that don't work (switched the house over this year), and won't throw 'em in the trash.

Take them to Ikea, which has a recycling kiosk for alkaline batteries, flourescent bulbs, and other Things Of That Nature...

/at least the Elizabeth NJ Ikea does
//next to the Swedish meatballs
///which are recycled the old-fashioned way...
 
2006-08-30 01:09:05 PM  
SuckItTrebek: I use them all over the house, just not in bathroom fixtures, lights over mirrors and reading lamps.


I filled most of my new house with them, but they won't work on a dimmer, and the "vanity"-type ones are prohibitively expensive.
 
2006-08-30 01:10:36 PM  
"4. Compact fluorescents, even in heavy use, last 5, 7, 10 years."

WOULD YOU MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MIND ALREADY! Ads like that always make me decide "I'm getting anything BUT that."

/does the article list 5, 7, 10 reasons?
 
2006-08-30 01:11:06 PM  
2006-08-30 12:58:28 PM Uncle Karl
Maybe making them illegal is too much.

Fine then tax them at $100 a bulb. This way if you need them you can have them and if not you won't bother to get them.
Incandescant bulbs are another form of false savings. They are cheap to produce and purchase but the whole community gets stuck with the repercussions. Just like walmart and SUVs.


And people wonder how are presemt tax code came about. Jeez. You can't legislate common sense.

/got multiple lighting systems in my house from LED to Fl tube to cfl to halogen. I depends on what is appropriate for the area. Hell one room is dual wired for day and night mode with totally separate lighting systems.
 
2006-08-30 01:11:08 PM  
Deja vu...

I just read the article this was compiled from in Fast Company on the toilet this morning.
 
2006-08-30 01:11:18 PM  
I like CFB's, except for one problem I've encountered. Being lazy, I installed a motion-detector switch in my laundry room so I don't have to bother flipping the switch every time I enter or exit. Apparently you can ONLY use incandescant bulbs with motion sensor switches, which I learned the hard way when I put in a CFB and the damn thing started cracking and snapping like bacon on a hot griddle. So much for using all CFB's!

/I think one fried my front porch light sensor switch too.
//But I still buy them regularly, not for "enviro-friendly" reasons but because I like cheap electric bills.
///profit motive beats enviro motive every time.
 
2006-08-30 01:11:25 PM  
serpent_sky: Flat screen tvs and computers kill my eyes, too... so I kind of worry about what will happen in the future, in terms of lighting and entertainment options for myself


Ever thought about filtration? Oakley makes some nice Thermo-nuclear protection, they might offer advice on other frequencies.
 
2006-08-30 01:12:25 PM  
sylaak
My problem is far less the power they waste(which is still a concern) but the amount of trash tehy generate. They have very a very short MTBF.

I say legislate, becuase they only way people will change is if forced too. Lets make a car analogy. The SUV driver claims he is paying for his gas so he is entitled to it. But he is not paying for the fact that he is increasing the demand and therefore increasing the price for everyone else. Much like this the incandescant bulb is increasing the price of electricity(supply and demand) and the need for more powerplants. The SUV driver also does not pay for the true cost of his fuel, which is the wars fought over it, the environmental damage it does, etc, the tax payer pays for this. In the same way the incandescant bulb generates much garbage that the tax payer pays to hall away, and the tax payer will be stuck with the bill for the eventual reclamation cost of the landfill.
 
2006-08-30 01:13:30 PM  
Looking at the links people have provided about LED bulbs I haven't seen anything that could replace a 100 watt incandescent bulb's light output. Am I just not seeing them, or do they not exist?
 
2006-08-30 01:14:30 PM  
VultureTX
If you can't legislate common sense, then how do you protect the many from the few?
 
2006-08-30 01:15:37 PM  
I always have problems with these lights. I've had a few burn out pretty quickly. I also have problems with them becomming loose in the sockets, so they don't turn on.
 
2006-08-30 01:15:42 PM  
LED bulbs are a bit disadvantageous compared to the newest CFLs. Seriously, go get some of the GE spirals with the same color temperature as normal incandescents.
 
2006-08-30 01:15:51 PM  
Shipofthesun:

Ever thought about filtration? Oakley makes some nice Thermo-nuclear protection, they might offer advice on other frequencies.


I'm not sure what this means?
 
2006-08-30 01:16:52 PM  
serpent_sky: Flat screen tvs and computers kill my eyes, too

Really? That's odd. I'm pretty sensitive to light, and I'm the only way around. Most CRT monitors kill my eyes due to the sense of flickering.

One of the classrooms I have a course in this semester has no windows and really bad fluorescent tubes. I get headaches and find it hard to keep my eyes open during class.

I keep meaning to get a pair of prescription sunglasses to deal with the glare while driving, but I've been putting it off.
 
2006-08-30 01:17:30 PM  
omfgodzilla: the only way around.

other*
 
2006-08-30 01:17:42 PM  
sunglasses. with filters. at different color temps.
 
2006-08-30 01:20:08 PM  
omfgodzilla:

Really? That's odd. I'm pretty sensitive to light, and I'm the only way around. Most CRT monitors kill my eyes due to the sense of flickering.

The pictures seem distorted; my eyes pick apart the pixels, and I am not that clear what I am watching. Like I can't always recognize faces on the flat-panel tvs. It's weird.

One of the classrooms I have a course in this semester has no windows and really bad fluorescent tubes. I get headaches and find it hard to keep my eyes open during class.

Ack. That's horrible. That's so unhealthy, particularly for people who have issues with the light. I remain astounded that some people have no problem whatsoever with that kind of light.
 
2006-08-30 01:20:34 PM  
You can get dimmable CFLs in varying color temperatures and wattages from http://www.goodmart.com (no pop). Their pages state that the bulbs are only orderable in boxes of 12 or so, but I asked nicely and their customer service department created links to allow me to order them one at at time. I've been happy with the ones I ordered so far. The dimmable feature is far less dramatic than it is with incandescent bulbs, but they don't explode / burn out (or whatever would happen) on my dimmable circuits.
 
2006-08-30 01:21:18 PM  
2006-08-30 01:14:30 PM Uncle Karl
VultureTX
If you can't legislate common sense, then how do you protect the many from the few?


Thus with that reply we are to beleive you support the IRS and it's convoluted tax code that congress has been using for decades to implement incentives like you suggest.
Figures, you are all about big govt.



 
2006-08-30 01:21:22 PM  
omfgodzilla
Buy a better CRT, the nice ones have refresh rates at or over 120Hz. This is one item where I do like the power waster since they last a lot longer than LCDs. I know, I know, you can solder in new ccfls, but the average person will just throw it out.

As far as the classrooms go, what are going to do when you get a job?
 
2006-08-30 01:23:17 PM  
Uncle Karl: I say legislate, becuase they only way people will change is if forced too. Lets make a car analogy. The SUV driver claims he is paying for his gas so he is entitled to it. But he is not paying for the fact that he is increasing the demand and therefore increasing the price for everyone else. Much like this the incandescant bulb is increasing the price of electricity(supply and demand) and the need for more powerplants. The SUV driver also does not pay for the true cost of his fuel, which is the wars fought over it, the environmental damage it does, etc, the tax payer pays for this. In the same way the incandescant bulb generates much garbage that the tax payer pays to hall away, and the tax payer will be stuck with the bill for the eventual reclamation cost of the landfill.

I can actually understand reasoning based on energy use. Your trash argument is just plain stupid, though. There are so many things that generate so much more garbage than incandescent bulbs that you make yourself sound nonsensicle making the proposal. Long life incandescents last over 10,000 hours. Some are rated at up to 20,000 hours.
 
2006-08-30 01:23:24 PM  
VultureTX
So I post a genuine question and you make an attempt at an insult.

Ok, your a big poopyhead, now the conversation is at your level.
 
2006-08-30 01:23:35 PM  
fish_toy: You can get dimmable CFLs in varying color temperatures and wattages from http://www.goodmart.com (no pop)

Um, I wouldn't refer those Brooklyn scammers. They just relay orders to another stocking house and you'll be lucky if 70% of your order ISN'T broken from poor packaging. And you can wait months for an order to ship.

Any mailorder company that has a disclaimer waiving them of ALL liabilities before you can get a price total is a red flag.
 
2006-08-30 01:24:10 PM  
DECMATH
WOULD YOU MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MIND ALREADY! Ads like that always make me decide "I'm getting anything BUT that."


I'm guessing that the "5,7,10" comes from the packaging, which is different depending on brand and type of CFL. Some last longer than others, but they state clearly on the packaging what you should expect.

Regardless, if that's your only excuse for not trying out flourescent lighting, it's a lot lamer than those people claiming their heads explode under the "buzzing" "migraine-inducing" "60 hz flickering" "skin mutating" CFLs.

I don't know what bulbs you guys are referring to, but I've never experienced any of these cataclysmic events using flourescent bulbs. Are you preaching the armageddon or just rationalizing why you're so proactively against saving money and the environment?
 
2006-08-30 01:24:21 PM  
Vitiare I switched over our porch light and it works nice, but that blue color gets annoying.

I think that's caused by the Viagra. You should switch to Cialis when you go to CFBs.

/PSA
 
2006-08-30 01:25:32 PM  
sylaak
I did not know that, then tax them at $50 a piece.Also yes, I do realize many other things make more trash than light bulbs but this thread is about light bulbs.
 
2006-08-30 01:27:14 PM  
LiTeSp3eD: If you don't know what color temperature is...

Which is only directly applicable to black body radiators, in this context incandescent (regular and halogen) bulbs. Phosphor and LED based light spectrums have to be approximated to the equivalent black body spectrum radiated at a given temperature by adjusting for the average human perception of colour.
 
2006-08-30 01:28:17 PM  
ye olde shiza: I don't know what bulbs you guys are referring to, but I've never experienced any of these cataclysmic events using flourescent bulbs./i>


Not everyone is sensitive to it. Flourescents *do* have a flicker to them and electronic ballasts went a long way toward getting rid of both the hum and the flicker. Even so, it does still affect some people.
 
2006-08-30 01:29:33 PM  
sylaak My problem with CF is not price, it's the light that they produce. Price really doesn't matter to me.

So you can pay the tax. Problem solved.
 
2006-08-30 01:29:57 PM  
gsellis: "Oh Noes, my outlet says 60W max!" That is based on incandescent power and temperature. A 100W CFL has a smaller draw and is MUCH cooler.

Please tell me you're talking about the "equivalent lighting" rating and not the actual power rating. Because in the real world, a watt is a watt is a watt. Unless of course you're an Irish company selling magnets sprinkled with magic pixie dust and bullshiat, but that's another story...
 
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