Wait, wait, wait. Hold the phone Dmatt.

Are you saying that Lady Di is from CHILLICOTHE, OHIO?!


OMG that is too stinkin rich. Anyone who's been to Chillicothe will realize where I'm coming from. It's about 2 miles down the road from Hootin'-Holler.

"Let's hear some more pompous bragging obout English culture, English language and English art now, you half-breeds."

Obout? Dimwit.

Britain (including Scotland), over the past 500 years (disregarding the evil imperial empire bit), has been the centre of scientific world. With revolutionary scientists such as Darwin (father and son), Isaac Newton, John Logie Baird, Watt, Edmond Halley, Alexander Fleming, Harold Jeffries, Edison etc. Not to mention English literature. You can blame people like Shakespeare and Wordsworth for providing assistance in your failure to pass English during High School. Art? Well that's not the strongest part, but UK has produced the likes of Henry Moore.

Everybody hates the top dog, ClownCollege. Nobody remembers the good things that England has contributed to our world, just that "evil empire" thing.

Kinda like the U.S. nowadays.

For all those who dont live in the UK can I just say that the "royal family" are about as representative of us as dick van bleedin dyke was in mary poppins.

Celt nation!

Well the Limey who challenged me wants a website but all you have to do is search "Lady Di Genealogy" and you'll find about a zillion sites. We have to tell the Brits how everything is done....and that there future King is a farkin' Buckeye!

I used to drive through Chillicothe on the way to Athens...a drunken blur for sure.

I have to come down on the "Anti-ethnic cleansing" side on this one. It was a cheap use of the phrase aimed more at being sensational and simplistic than at conveying any real meaning. What it was was the normal displacement of a population when a large immigration occurs. Was it ethnic cleansing when Australia was settled (any sort of atrocities bleeding hearts will come up with aside). Did the Canadians "cleanse" the area of Indians when settling Toronto?
No, it's just cheap language.

The difference is, unlike the Spaniards, British, Romans, Poles-Lithuanians, Mongols, etc., when we're going down, we're pressing the self-destruct button for the planet. Cool!

So are the indigenous Brits still living on reservations or have they joined the mainstream population? Do they rely on gambling and tax scams to survive?

Wow Dmatt. You've just blown my mind for the day (and my coworkers). I just told everyone about this bit of trivia about Lady Di's family being from Chillicothe.


Their response was pretty close to yours:

"Well, that explains her getting liquored up and dying in a car wreck."

AnusMan,

I'm not proud of the evil empire bit. I'm proud of the scientists and literatis. Which is more than can be said for the majority of the Americans in here.

ClownCollege:

You forgot Michael Faraday. He rocks.

07-02-02 09:46:11 AM Purple_Jack

Irish republicans complain that many of current the inhabitants of N. Ireland originate from Scots who were planted there for political reasons a few centuriess back. They fail to appreciate that most of these people were of Irish origin anyway.

Except that the Lowland Scots were actually Anglo-Norman in origin. The Highlanders were the former Irish who had settled in Scotland.

With revolutionary scientists such as Darwin (father and son), Isaac Newton, John Logie Baird, Watt, Edmond Halley, Alexander Fleming, Harold Jeffries, Edison etc.

I hope you don't mean Thomas Edison.
Seriously, I hope not.

Yeah CCG, that was my point exactly. As a Brit you have a lot to be proud of considering your nation's history.

There isn't a single nation (or person for that matter) on the planet that doesn't have something in their past that they aren't proud of. It's too bad that some folks can only focus on the negatives.

"So are the indigenous Brits still living on reservations or have they joined the mainstream population...."

The UK, for all intents and purposes, is like the 51st State. No taxation without representation, tho.....

Millay, thank you. How very silly of me. He only happened to be the father of modern Physics.

So are there any physical differences between Celts and Saxons? Do Welsh people look noticeably different from other English peoples?

ClownCollege:

I'm proud of American scientists and literatis. But you guys have 1000 years to draw off of, and we have only 400 at most. Of course you're gonna win.

However, I'm also glad that America has a strong pragmatic side, instead of that "let them eat culture" attitude that sometimes overtakes Europeans.

ClownCollege:

We did several Faraday experiments at my "university." They were really fun. Plus, the guy's so empirical and math-phobic that the concepts were easy to get.

Rks404- Yes. The Welsh are even uglier.

07-02-02 09:56:36 AM Rks404
So are there any physical differences between Celts and Saxons? Do Welsh people look noticeably different from other English peoples?

The Welsh:


The English:

Slippy, it's not. It's another Edison. He's a relatively unknown Atrophysicist.

ClownCollegeGraduate

If you cannot debate, attack grammar and spelling and if you're desparate, resort to name calling.

I learned that in grade school.

*newsflash*
This just in.....the sun has set on the English Empire....Brits are bitter.

Ah. Just checking.

I get tired of the national pride thing. Of course you think your country is better, and I think my country is better. I like my culture better than yours. I like my ideas and opinions better than yours. If I didn't there wouldn't be much point in holding an opinion, would there? This is why I dislike the extreme cultural diversity (seems like that ought to come packaged in a snazzy container with lightning bolts an dbright graphics) we have to deal with Ethnocentrism is a good thing, to an extent. I like my culture and where I am. Why shouldn't I?

/rant

Someguy: There were Britons and Angles in Lowlands of what is now Scotland in Roman times. However, the Normans didn't arrive in Britain till 1066 so you can't say the people were Anglo-Norman in origin.

Further, the Scots came over from Ireland and founded a Kingdom called Dalriada on the West Coast of Scotland. It wasn't restricted to the Highlands.

My not-so-far ancestory is Welsh. And apparently that is why I'm short and hairy.

I like my culture and where I am. Why shouldn't I?


Because America is evil. The CIA build a weather machine that causes natural disasters in countries the US doesn't like.

Purplejack:

This page deals with the Lowland Scots language. Singe it's a geocities page (and will soon exceed its bandwidth), here's an excerpt:

"Ulster-Scots is a germanic language, i.e. it comes from the same language family as German, Dutch and English (to name but a few). It is incredibly similar to English, so much so that it is often thought of as merely a dialect or 'improper' form of English. Ulster-Scots is unlike a dialect however as it not only has a discrete vocabulary but also a discrete grammar as will hopefully be elucidated in these pages. In fact, the parent language of Ulster-Scots, Lowland Scots or Lallans has been classified by the European Bureau of Lesser Used Languages. "

The report didn't say anything about the Taltos.

RSK404: My family comes from the Isle of Mann. People from the Isle have very distinct Blue and or Green eyes. (like myself, VERY bright blue). Could be from centuries of inbreeding. Who knows.
But it is a distinct genetic feature attributed to people from that little part of the world.

OK, I have a beef with this page.

The Celts were not the original inhabitants of England (or any part of Britain with the possible exception of a few islands that no one in their right mind lived on while the population denisty was low.) Look at the map that Someguy posted. Notice that the Celts originated (or, rather, archaeologists first become aware of them) in Central Europe. They pushed aside Britain's original inhabitants when they arrived.

Now, while it is not good practice to cite a work of fiction in support, Sarum by Rutherford, is one of those books that had to be extensively researched. That's the schema he came up with, and I'm sticking to it. It makes some sense that good land like England that was only separated from the rest of Europe at the end of the Last ice age would have had people on it when the channel came through.

Now, as to ethnic cleansing: I don't think we're talking Nazi style "starve them to death" or Serbian (or Medieval Catholic) style "kill them all and burn the bodies" cleansing. I think I'll let Edward Longshanks say it for me:

"The problem with Scotland... is that it's full of Scots!
If we can't Drive them out, we'll Breed them out."

Also, a buddy of mine whose done a bit of research on the topic likes to say that the English language as we know it today (with it's mellifluous mix of Germainc and Romantic elements) came to be so Norman knights could pick up Saxon bar wenches more easily.

So, in summary: The Celts were interlopers too, and successive waves of migration (Celt, Roman, Anglo-Saxon, Norman) didn't kill off the populace they met so much as drive out those they could and subsume and intermarry with what remained.

If the real english are welsh, then I'm glad to be a greco-anglo-saxon.

Oops, I meant that it deals with Ulster Scots, a descendant of Lowland Scots.

There were Celts in England, too, but there's very little Celtic influence left in England, and there hasn't been for a long time.

Cymru am Byth!!

LOL: "European Bureau of Lesser Used Languages.", I feel enriched to know that such a thing exists.

What does this have to do with Olfa's lesbian girlfriend?

Offa, I mean.

Another interesting point:
The term "Wales" and "Welsh" comes from the Anglo-Saxon (old german) "Wealas" or "Foreigners". Thus the Welsh are now known as foreigners in their own land.

My not-so-far ancestory is Welsh. And apparently that is why I'm short and hairy.

dark haired too?

I just realized I've got Welsh ancentry. My grandmother elluded to it when she was talking about tracing our ancestors....but kind of skipped over it. She was like "we're english german and irish ...*quiet rushed voice*and other natives*/voice*.....but definetly english"

TypoFlyspray: You're not quoting Edward I, you're quoting Patrick McGoohan. The same modernization/misinformation trap I described above.

Also, your friend needs to check his research. Bah.

Didn't man originate in Africa (of the Garden of Eden, depending on your religious persuasion), so in the vast majority of countries, no group is "native". Even Native Americans wandered into America when it was still joined up to Asia (or not, again depending on your religious persuasion).

It must be pretty difficult to establish whether a current Briton's ancestry is Celtic, Anglo-Saxon or Norman etc., though apparently if your second toe is longer than your big toe, it means you're Norman. My family alone has Welsh, Irish and English in it.

Rosalea: Sounds like my ancestry. Mainly German, a tiny tiny bit of Polish, and a whole heap of Welsh. Which makes me a stupid, beer drinking, goose-stepping coal miner. :)

Someguy: Thanks for that link - interesting site. I don't know if you did any of the lessons or not. I made the mistake of reading lesson 1 after reading a long e-mail in Dutch. My brain's just gone into meltdown.

though apparently if your second toe is longer than your big toe, it means you're Norman.

My Grandmother used to tell me that it meant you were descended from Kings.

Purplejack: My brain is already in meltdown from studying Irish and Welsh--I keep slipping into Latin. (I apparently have this need to study useless languages.

though apparently if your second toe is longer than your big toe, it means you're Norman.

oh man you mean I'm Norman too *sighs* I'm such a mutt. At least my mothers side is mostly german.

Although most of the native "english" have norman blood.