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(englishrussia.com)   Trostky Church of St.Petersburg is on fire (photos)   (englishrussia.com) divider line 331
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23523 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2006 at 11:24 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-08-25 01:03:24 PM
NamBud

Sorry my friend, you just told a great many people to go fark themselve through a combination of sardonic and juvenile baiting and flat out mockery. Shedding a tear over a symbol like that is sad. I'm glad you can acknowledge the ass kicking nature of the building, but thinking that it's balanced by the fact that a church burned is on par with applauding the bombing of a vacant abortion clinic. Is it hate week already?

/Out to lunch.
 
2006-08-25 01:03:56 PM
This was fortold!
Book of Ruminations 4:20.

/Seriously, we're all gonna die now.
 
2006-08-25 01:04:31 PM
Jeffro619

As far as I'm concerned, the Christians never did anything wrong to me except elect little george.

Well, that is you. Some people have grown up in homes with religous fanatical parents that force them into religously fanatical social circles. Some people have a genuine right, if you will, you dislike or hold contempt toward the Christians.
 
2006-08-25 01:04:31 PM
It's amazing...You would think a thread such as this, should logically should turn to a discussion of terrorism, or its effects on culture, or even a discussion on the value of historial places as NYMoogle has presented. Instead, it becomes a place for neo-atheists to enjoy a diatribe against reglion.
 
2006-08-25 01:05:59 PM
This man was last seen smoking crack in the church lavatory.

www.unityworldhq.org
 
2006-08-25 01:06:47 PM
beautiful architecture lost ....sad

that being said,


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
 
2006-08-25 01:08:22 PM
Well it looks as if it's true, and sad. It's gotten past the main dome (which is already gone) and has involved much of the roof, it seems. News and pictures are still scarce but I assume it won't be pretty when it all comes through.

Fire insurance? I hope so.
 
2006-08-25 01:08:44 PM
trappedspirit

It is irreplacable in that the skills and labor required to reproduce this scarcely exist, and the labor required is prohibitively expensive.

When I see structures like these, I see lessons from history for today.

-If something is worth doing, it is worth doing well.
-Great things can be achieved through vision, determination and persistance (I follow the craftsman movement definition of art - that is, art is an object well made.)
- We all die, but we can leave something that outlasts us.

I'm not all broken up over the loss, but I whistfully acknowledge that it is just one more thing that I will never get to see up close and intact.

Investing false pretenses? Do you not see any difference between the pictures of this building and say, pictures of churches in a strip mall?

I know the Grand Canyon is just a large pothole, Niagra Falls is just water and gravity, and the internet is just a series of tubes.

Some of us see things differently.

Reducing everything to 'matter', while technically correct, fails to adequately describe an object.
 
2006-08-25 01:10:05 PM
trappedspirit
And who gets to be the judge of what is beautiful or great art?

Most goverments have heritage boards that decide these things based on historical significance, public perceptions and thier own prejudices. That's great for you that you don't give a fark about preserving historical artifacts, but other people do and they elect governments that take care of these things.

I really don't see what point you are tryign to make.
 
2006-08-25 01:10:10 PM
Mr. Chruka,

First of all, your analogy is shiat.

But, to placate you, let me finish.

I am a HUGE pro-choice supporter. And, in my eyes, there is absolutely nothing wrong, from a humanitarian standpoint, with bombing a vacant,/b> abortion clinic. It is much better than strolling in with a shotgun wasting all of the workers and preserving the building.

/Insurance will cover it.
 
2006-08-25 01:10:29 PM
Rye_:

I think you should.

Excellent, then, I say, not this dome church.
 
2006-08-25 01:12:07 PM
www.kennesaw.edu

/middle seat
 
2006-08-25 01:12:45 PM
Mr.Churka: Ever seen the Hagia Sophia? Not just a building. Divine architecture. Losing something that splendid, something that is a monument to the capacity of inspiration and dedication, is always sad. It's not just brick and wood and windows any more than the Louvre is just walls and floor with rocks and ink and stretched canvas. They stand for ideas and they are beautiful. I hope some day you see something that drags you out of your misanthropic distopian revery.

Never seen the Hagia Sophia, but I've seen La Sagrada Familia, and I see what you're saying. It's pretty. It all depends on where you're standing. People have different passions, and they make value judgements, aesthetic judgements, based on what THEY love. There is no inherent beauty in these things. I know it's hard to believe, but there isn't. YOU have to make that judgement.

pink freud: NYMoogle , you should try getting out of the U.S sometimes. It helps.

You should try getting your head out of your A.S.S sometimes. I might not be a globetrotter like you, but I've been to all the continents except Australia.
 
2006-08-25 01:13:26 PM
ronaprhys: Yes - because the USA doesn't have buildings prior to 1830. Seems to me that we've got things dating back to the 1700's and earlier.

Not in Seattle...
 
2006-08-25 01:13:26 PM
2006-08-25 01:04:31 PM NamBud

Well, that is you. Some people have grown up in homes with religous fanatical parents that force them into religously fanatical social circles. Some people have a genuine right, if you will, you dislike or hold contempt toward the Christians.

No they don't. That's the logic you use to justify racism. Reread your post, but with blacks inserted instead of Christians:

Well, that is you. Some people have grown up in neighborhoods with blacks that force them into black social circles. Some people have a genuine right, if you will, you dislike or hold contempt toward the blacks.


Reads a bit differently now, no? The fact is that your attitude is stereotyping an entire group of people (with their varying attitudes, beliefs, morals, etc.) based on the experiences with a small group.
 
2006-08-25 01:13:39 PM
NamBud

"Some people have grown up in homes with religious fanatical parents that force them into religously fanatical social circles. Some people have a genuine right, if you will, you dislike or hold contempt toward the Christians."

Sounds like these people should have issues with their parents, not with Christians.
 
2006-08-25 01:14:07 PM
NamBud: Actually I was raised in a traditional Catholic family. I went to Catholic school until university. Who knows? Maybe my experience was different, but in my school and family upbringing there was no pressure to follow the way of the church (maybe I had a stronger mind and didn't buy into the belief). To this day I am thankful for the superior education I received in those schools, but I have not been to church since I graduated. I just really get upset when I hear people bash any form of religion, but then turn around and preach tolerance. I really don't know what I believe right now. I do believe in evolution and the big bang theory. But something had to create those particals of dust. They didn't just appear. For those reasons and for the sake of being tolerant of others' views, I choose not to degrade any religions.
 
2006-08-25 01:15:15 PM
It reminds me of 2001 when the Administration Building at the University of Kentucky (one of the oldest structures on campus, built in the 1880s) caught fire due to a torch used to cut brass panels off the sides of the building (they were being replaced as part of a face lift) lighting up about 100 years worth of accumulated bird debris, nests among other things.

That building, the roof gone and heavy damage to the interior, was eventually restored, but it took something like 3 years to complete.

Hopefully this church can similarly be restored, though from the pics, it doesn't look good.

--h
 
2006-08-25 01:15:40 PM
Norwest: I really don't see what point you are trying to make.

The point he's trying to make is he's a cranky a$$hole.
 
2006-08-25 01:16:26 PM
Baked420

That was nice. Bravo!!
 
2006-08-25 01:18:28 PM
someone was late w/ their "insurance" payment to the mafia.
 
2006-08-25 01:20:32 PM
NamBud

Behold this thing who walks like a man, yet revels in his ignorance of Art, Architecture, History, Culture. He is proud of his ignorance. And all this because he HATES that other people are religous.

/BAAAA!
//BAAAA!!!!
///ps: calling other people sheep is a step below calling them a Nazi
////I enact Nambud's Law: In a thread on the internet, the first one to deride the other side as "sheep" loses the argument, and has to return his latest piece of Emo or Goth gear to Hot Topic.
 
2006-08-25 01:20:53 PM
No updates, new pics, or confirmation in hours. Shenanigans?
 
2006-08-25 01:21:30 PM
2006-08-25 12:29:16 PM opkopk

Is that it at 59.55' N & 30.18' E on Google Earth?


...There ya go.
 
2006-08-25 01:21:52 PM
Forget burning churches... the link under the pics is mucho scary!

Half of animal and plants forms may disappear, causing migration of uncivilized nations to USA and Europe (sic)
 
2006-08-25 01:22:54 PM
ronaprhys: Reads a bit differently now, no? The fact is that your attitude is stereotyping an entire group of people (with their varying attitudes, beliefs, morals, etc.) based on the experiences with a small group.

Of course it reads differently, it isn't analagous. Black is a skin color. Catholicism is a belief. One you choose, the other you don't. One is how you look, the other is how you act (in theory). Your assertion that people of the same faith have different belief and moral systems is ridiculous.
 
2006-08-25 01:24:50 PM
ronaprhys

HAHAHAHA NOW, THAT is funny. Might I ask why you chose to place my dislike of christians in a racial analogy???? I AM African-American, btw.


MY BELIEF IS THIS: People who believe in God in the biblical sense are just plain ignorant and, if they are not ignorant, they have no excuse to remove themselves from the group I would label as stupid.

There. That is it. That is all I have to say. So, fark you if you agree with me, and fark you if you don't. It is absolutely absurd to sit an argue with such simple-minded people.
 
2006-08-25 01:25:43 PM
HET!
 
2006-08-25 01:25:48 PM
Trappedspirit:Respect is a barter system. What are you willing to give?

Trappedspirit:But as far as holding in high or special regard, I reserve such feeling for living things. Not hunks of iron.

Well, I'm a living thing. Is that enough? If so, why? If not, why?
 
2006-08-25 01:25:49 PM
NYMoogle
Your assertion that people of the same faith have different belief and moral systems is ridiculous.

I went to a synod meeting for the Lutheran Church in Canada. It made fark look like Sessame Street.
 
2006-08-25 01:26:07 PM
Altoid: Half of animal and plants forms may disappear, causing migration of uncivilized nations to USA and Europe (sic)

White Man's Burden!
img242.imageshack.us
Because any other racist doctrine would be uncivilized.
 
2006-08-25 01:27:05 PM
NYMoogle: Catholicism is a belief.

All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholics and the post you're referring to said Christians not Catholics. And there's a huge different between a Catholic and says a Seventh Day Adventist or Jehovah's Witness.
 
2006-08-25 01:28:51 PM
2006-08-25 01:22:54 PM NYMoogle

Of course it reads differently, it isn't analagous. Black is a skin color. Catholicism is a belief. One you choose, the other you don't. One is how you look, the other is how you act (in theory). Your assertion that people of the same faith have different belief and moral systems is ridiculous.

Okay, I'll give you the race isn't analagous part. That's true. My intent there was to show that stereotyping people, regardless of how you do it doesn't work.

However, my assertion that people of the same faith have different belief and moral systems is patently not ridiculous. Just because they share the same general faith doesn't mean they believe the same thing. Look at a comparison between Assemblies of God and Catholics and Unitarians. Incredibly different viewpoints. Confession, absolution, and the other rites are against the AG viewpoint, where it's all you and God (for the record, I don't follow either), and it seems the Unitarians will believe damn near anything.

Specifically, it's very valid to his rant - especially since he's going off on all christians, which represent a very varied group.
 
2006-08-25 01:29:54 PM
Norwest: I went to a synod meeting for the Lutheran Church in Canada. It made fark look like Sesame Street.

What did it make Sesame Street look like?
 
2006-08-25 01:29:57 PM
halfof33

Behold this thing who walks like a man, yet revels in his ignorance of Art, Architecture, History, Culture. He is proud of his ignorance. And all this because he HATES that other people are religous

Right. Because all things that are culturally significant, artistic, historical, and have architectural significance are in fact ALL religous!! You are BRILLIANT!!!

If you read my second post, I believe I commented that the building itseld was very beautiful. I could just give a fark that a building that was used for worship of the fake sky-guy burned to the ground. Sorry you disagree.
 
2006-08-25 01:31:55 PM
Regnad Kcin:

Well, I'm a living thing. Is that enough? If so, why? If not, why?

Ah, this is probably where our beliefs take the largest divergence. I am one of those kooks that thinks humans have a metaphysical component to them and are not a composite of atoms. Which means I also believe in freewill and personal responsibility. But not so big on matter worship.
 
2006-08-25 01:33:19 PM
Too bad this wasn't the Rasputin Cathedral, then it would further require poisoning, drowning, a few stabs and a gun shot or two to collapse.
 
2006-08-25 01:34:20 PM
Can't belive this hasn't been quoted yet:

Reporter: "A 3 alarm fire in downtown Moscow clears way for glorious new tractor factory. In other news, America prepares for airline disaster" *GUNSHOT*
 
2006-08-25 01:34:32 PM
NamBud

"MY BELIEF IS THIS: People who believe in God in the biblical sense are just plain ignorant and, if they are not ignorant, they have no excuse to remove themselves from the group I would label as stupid."

Well, we have all learned a lot from the guy with the Mommy Issues today. If you disagree with him you are stupid.

And posting the lyrics to Imagine is profound.

Thanks Champ, and good luck with all of that

/
 
2006-08-25 01:34:35 PM
Those pics are soooooo fake it isn't even funny.
 
2006-08-25 01:34:50 PM
2006-08-25 01:24:50 PM NamBud

HAHAHAHA NOW, THAT is funny. Might I ask why you chose to place my dislike of christians in a racial analogy???? I AM African-American, btw.

Seemed relevant at the time, have since acknowledged that it wasn't the best analogy. Maybe something closer would be college students (a choice group) or some other thing. However, to say an entire group of people, who all act and think in different ways, is asinine.

MY BELIEF IS THIS: People who believe in God in the biblical sense are just plain ignorant and, if they are not ignorant, they have no excuse to remove themselves from the group I would label as stupid.

Wow - so an astrophysicist would be stupid if they called themselves Christian? A MENSA member? Newton? Good luck with that belief system. Whether or not you've been treated poorly by certain members of a huge and variable group is no excuse for treating all the members of that group poorly.

There. That is it. That is all I have to say. So, fark you if you agree with me, and fark you if you don't. It is absolutely absurd to sit an argue with such simple-minded people.

Oh, I agree - but we'd have a different view of who's simple-minded, now wouldn't we?
 
2006-08-25 01:38:44 PM
NYMoogle
What did it make Sesame Street look like?

Teletubbies? Polkadot door? I dunno.

I'm not actually disagreeing with your overall argument. Just saying that Churches are far from the brainwashed homogenous group that many people assume they are. The debate on gay marriage raged for 2 days solid with opionons and arguments all over the spectrum. In the end the debate was shelved till another time.

And holy crap could some of those people debate. And yes, debate not just spew bible verses like some of the Born Again churches.
 
2006-08-25 01:39:05 PM
WhyteRaven74: All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholics and the post you're referring to said Christians not Catholics. And there's a huge different between a Catholic and says a Seventh Day Adventist or Jehovah's Witness.

Whoops! My bad! Point conceded, Christians do have different belief systems.
I could'a sworn it said Catholic.

grumble grumble

It took this long before a joke struck me (violently) about the fire really being a new papal choice.
 
2006-08-25 01:39:58 PM
Those pics are soooooo fake it isn't even funny.

No, there's a russian news agency (not Pravda) that's reporting it's the real deal with a pic of it. I work with a guy here from St. Petersberg and walked by his cube to see him reading it.

 
2006-08-25 01:40:59 PM
I just really get upset when I hear people bash any form of religion, but then turn around and preach tolerance. I really don't know what I believe right now. I do believe in evolution and the big bang theory. But something had to create those particals of dust. They didn't just appear. For those reasons and for the sake of being tolerant of others' views, I choose not to degrade any religions.

The whole idea that god exists somewhere and god created the things that science can't explain is absolutely ridiculous. I'm not alone in believing this. Science and religion can peacefully coexist only so long as religion admits it is based completely on human emotion, i.e. "a need to believe something." Just because "science" or the Big Bang hasn't yet proven everything doesn't mean that god must have made it.

This is just a sneaky ploy by religious people to keep their beliefs from being completely ridiculed. For example, they say the Sun goes around the Earth. Then they are proven wrong by incontrovertible physical evidence. Then they sort of mumble something incoherent and say "AH HA. Science has not yet explained "X". Therefore god exists here."

The catholic church has publicly stated that evolution is fact as well as theory, distancing themselves from the "Creationists." They didn't do this because they are "smarter" per se. They saw the writing on the wall with this whole mess, and didn't want to be lumped into the inevitable backlash from the scientific community.

They've had a lot longer to prefect the art of screwing the faithful out of their hard earned dollars and keeping them believing in "original sin" and other such nonsense, to keep them under raps.

To the extent that religions try to attempt to influence the lives of their adherents, or stick their noses into politics (in violation of US law that gives them tax breaks for keeping out of the public sphere) they DESERVE to be ridiculed. By attacking them, you're not being hypocritical, you're doing your duty as a responsible citizen that believes in the rule of law, based in secular principles of justice, logic and reason.

Oh, and it's sad that the Trotsky Church burned down. But only because it was a nice building.
 
2006-08-25 01:41:18 PM
NYMoogle
It took this long before a joke struck me (violently) about the fire really being a new papal choice.

A pope joke?! Do tell!
 
2006-08-25 01:43:11 PM
It seems like neo-atheist Hezbocrats don't appreciate art and beauty.

Yes, there is no God, but just because you've just descovered this whilst you're rebelling against your parents and becoming a philosophy major doesn't mean that it's a good thing that history should be destroyed.
 
2006-08-25 01:43:47 PM
Discovered

/doh!
 
2006-08-25 01:44:16 PM
lazymojo

Your argument is based on the false pretense that a perfect scientfic explanation of the universe and God cannot co-exist. Religion encompasses much more than creation.
 
2006-08-25 01:46:58 PM
But I thought Catholics prayed to the goddess Mary. That does not a Christian make. So to say Christians and Catholics would be correct.
 
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