vanity: People should fight battles that apply to them.

As an American, this applies to me.

2006-08-21 03:45:31 PM ChairmanKaga


So, what your saying is that he DID IT? and he Planned to do it? ok??????? How is that TWO crimes?

This is SOP for criminal law, one of the things they teach you in Bar prep courses is to always add an attempt charge for every actual crime you can identify in the fact pattern. (and if there is more than one person involved, a conspiracy charge too)

Attempt is what's known as a "lesser included offense" meaning if you can't get him on the top charge and prove he actually "provided material support to terrorists" maybe you can prove that wanted to and was trying to when you popped him.

"Providing Material Support for Terrorism" BTW is a highly dubious crime that's only been around since 1996 (passed by the Gingrich Congress in response to WTC Attack I) and greatly expanded by the Patriot Act. You can violate it by doing virtually anything that "helps" anybody tyring to do an entire laundry list of things including destroying ANY sort of goverment property. (usc 18 65 $1361)


Theoretically Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, and the Entire DOD could be charged with this crime as it lists TITLE 18 § 2340A as one the underlying crimes that count as "terrorism" it Just so happens that section sez:


TITLE 18 § 2340A > PART I > CHAPTER 113C > § 2340A Prev | Next § 2340A. Torture
(a) Offense.- Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction.- There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if-
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.
(c) Conspiracy.- A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.




any wonder why they are now working so hard to get an exemption to this section passed?

That's a long time to spend in prison for abusing steroids. Who's he pitching for now these days, anyway?

Stryyder: Of course as a rationale intelligent person your argument is correct however my gut reaction as a father of a 3 year old is that anyone that murders a child shouldn't see the light of day. That is what happens when your emotions take over.

Just wondering, where did you read that Padilla ever murdered a child? Not that it matters (he's served his time for whatever crimes he committed in the past), but I haven't read that anywhere else.

DeCypher44: Isn't he actually being charged with crimes? If so, how is this against our Constitution? I know that early on, they were detaining people, but wasn't that recently corrected?

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Padilla was arrested on May 8, 2002. He was indicted on November 22, 2005. The fact that he's being charged now does not make up for the fact that he was held for 3+ years before his indictment - his right to a speedy trial is already long gone.

godxam: tell me again why I give a shiat about this guys farking rights?

Because the Constitution still means something to the rest of us.

President Bush designated him an enemy combatant the following month and turned him over to the military.

OK Bush supporters, here's a question for you: Why is it a good idea to let the president strip away the rights of Americans who are accused of crimes? Anybody? Bueller?

Murphyr: it seems more than a bit misleading to label a kid of 14 who joined a gang a "child murderer"

My interpretation of "juvenile murder" was that Jose killed someone while *he* (Jose) was a juvenile, not that he killed someone who *was* a juvenile.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

I love how Bush complains about "Activist judges" who don't use the constituion for making their decision but to justify all his BS he says "But a war is going on you should just ignore what the constitution and law says!". He is so full of crap.

If the executive branch can hold people without a trial what would stop them from calling candidates from the opposing parties terroists and have them arrested?

I know some would say "that would never happend", but if you really believe that, you are stupid and don't know much about history.