I believe a unicorn created all of existence.

Cerebral Ballsy: savonola Meh, log off, asshat


Fark you asswipe

Interesting phenomenon....

I went to college with a guy like this. His dad was a promise keeper and he really just kinda accepted his religion. By then end of the program he was a self confessed agnostic.

I would argue this point with the writer of the article though... he seems convinced that colleges and universities are left leaning. I would disagree with that for the following reason...

I think it's no secret to the non-American world that the US has been slowly but very definitely inching towards a more right-leaning and authoritarian form of government. The average US citizen is confused as to where the right and left actually fall on the political spectrum. For example, most Americans feel the democrats represent the left... the Dems are still right of centre in almost every industrialized nation in the world. That's a signifigant point.

The Christian viewpoint, is obviously conservative, and usually Americo-centric (not sure if that's a word, but you get the idea). The job of colleges and universities is to instruct students on what goes on in the greater world, they would likely seem left leaning to a dyed in the wool US christian... it's merely a shift in point of view though.

For my money though, education and questioning your own beliefs is a good thing. It either strengthens your beliefs or opens your eyes to some real discovery of the world and the human condition.

/this slash intentionally left blank

My Two Minutes from Hate is up.

Scattershot: but whether zero, one or five billion people have faith that God exists does not change the fact that God either does or does not exist.

A certain population of elephants may disagree.

mungo: Sad to see a Dictionary associate atheism with immorality.

You're going to regret believing in the wrong definition of atheism when you die. May as well stick with immortality just in case.

"I'm not aware of any of your examples being viewed as a universe-creating deity of omnipotent power so I fail to see the connection between a unicorn and God in this instance, sorry."


-That's because you're being purposely obtuse in order to avoid the (valid) point...



/or just really slow

,
the less likely you are to be religious.

Yeah, I went through that a little bit. You know, you get away from home, you're surrounded by peope who don't give a crap about God and who just wanna party all the time, and in my case, a loved one dies. But then as you get a little older and you realize that everyone else is just as miserable as you (just better at hiding it), you might pick up the Bible and be touched by the words you've heard since you were a toddler in a way you never have before. I'm now more excited about God than I ever was growing up in the system. I guess reading C.S. Lewis'll do that to you.

WhyteRaven74: Jewish law forbids any naming at all of god, Jess who follow that art of the law won't even write God out of reverence for the pracice that God is beyond any human ability to describe, name or otherwise attribute human qualities too.

Understood, but if there were a God, don't you think it would be intelligent enough to know that you just replaced the "o" with a "-" and did so thinking and visualizing the word/being "god". I would hope god would be smart enough to figure that one out.

been alright :)

Good to hear.

Mr.Churka: Not a stoner kid, just an objective witness. It's a fact that Tibetan monks can do shiat that people just shouldn't be able to do. Do I need to fly out there and see it to believe it? Do you need to walk and then sail to China to know that it's there? Skepticism, while necessary, should only go so far. National geographic channel had a piece on about them a few days ago. If focus can keep you warm on a mountain in Tibet, why couldn't it help you stay warm? Doubt is useful just like everything else. When used in moderation.



This kind of garbage is why Americans are falling behind in sicence. What kind of shiat, exactly, can Tibetan monks do that humans shouldn't be able to do? Bioregulation is not superhuman.

Scattershot: Further, the headline relates that 50% of Christians who spend the majority of their lives for a period of about four years at an institution that generally steam-rolls Christianity will leave having changed their minds. Does this sound like brainwashing to anyone else?

I thought the same, of course it's only brainwashing when it's something you don't agree with.

my 2 cents. Its not really education that will do that. Its the shelter. These are kids who spend their whole life in an entirely christian setting with christian friends and go to christian gatherings end up going to a college out of state or whatever that is filled with people from all sorts of other places and they eventually have to come to terms with the fact that no, not everyone in the whole planet is a christian.

case in point.
setting: speech class in college
topic of the day: removing the word "god" from pledge of allegiance
...
ok so I had not really been involved in the discussion because frankly I didn't give a crap. But this one girl actually started ranting to the entire class very loudly "I don't even think you can actually be an athiest, I've never met someone who is, there is just no way, i cblah blah blah blah" so I cut her off and said "uh... I'm an athiest" She turned around and looked at me like I had polymorphed into a 6 foot tall badger. On the other hand, I was shocked that someone could be shocked by that.

shockyshocky

fenrael23

Using G-d goes back to a number of different sources. Some say that writing His true name allows it to be worshipped in effigy and thus should be banned as idolatry. Some say it allows the name to be marred and thus it should be banned. Some say that the true name of G-d brings gods into a world where they can be talked about and thus lied about and the cleverness of G-d was that he concealed his true name and thus has not been marred. Pick your poison. I do it out of respect for the beliefs of others. You must cover your head in temple and take off your hat in church. I bow my head when my grandmother prays that the souls of the gays may be saved despite their sin. It's sad to watch, but not offending her is more important than expressing how offensive I find her belief.

czarangelus

Calling you a nutcase is not persecution. Burning you at the stake for witchcraft is persecution. Christianity as a persecuted religion? Suck it

Just because it's not seen doesn't make it so. Across the world Christians are killed for their religion. It's a statement of fact, but I bet I'll get a flaming for making this statement.

Whatever. I'm one of the kids referenced in the headline -- I don't participate in the church as it exists today. Churches aren't supposed to be businesses!

/DRTFA
//not coming back to this thread.

When Jesus gets back he's gonna be pissed.

Scattershot: generally steam-rolls Christianity

You know what cracks me up? How few of the diehard Christian as organized religion crowd ever learn so much as Latin let alone Greek and/or Hebrew. I leave out ARamaic because very very few colleges offer it.

You talk of steamrolling yet all you have to stand on as a counter is your own obstinent declarations. I wonder how you'd feel if I tarted pointing out erros that persist in Bible translations. Or changes over time in same. Or various theological points.

Myself when I go to town on Calvinism, which I hold as the most vile thing to hit western civilization ever, I go to town on Calvin and Calvinism. I've yet to ever come across anyone with a defense of it. But I've been told I attack faith, which I don't. Because that's just silly.

universe-creating deity of omnipotent power

Here's a theological headache of mega proportions, you can believe in God and not assign the creation of our universe to God.

so far down thread no one will read this but...

has it dawned upon anyone else?

Religion and Science share a common goal; attempting to explain the universe, life, "what is" et al

Atheism is as ignorant as *any* Theism. One cannot prove "God" nor can one disprove "God"

/Free Range Pagan
//often incorporates Xtian ritual
///GBTB (bed)

A certain population of elephants may disagree.

You do realize that not all christians are anti-evolution fundie lunatics, don't you? There are a number of ways for evolution and some level of creationism to exist. I love the new trend of villianizing the "fundie christians" by the pseudo-intellectual assclown set. Quit repeating what your friends at the local coffee shop told you and form your own opinion.

/Again, atheist

Action Replay Nick [TotalFark]
Half the country seems to masturbate at the thought of a global bloodbath, because they think it will make Jesus come down on a cloud and whisk them into heaven.

One person having that type of idea = Trip to a mental hospital for observation.
Millions of people having that type of idea = A religion.

The type of destructive end of time obsession, kill all who are not your mentality that fundamentalist religions create are probably the biggest problem for mankind and world peace. This goes for Christian, Muslim and any other group that wants death and violence to validate their religion.
Lets find some mostly unoccupied place, maybe the Aussie outback or Siberia gather them all up there for one final rumble. Then let them maim and kill each other to their hearts contents. Only rules, they keep it there, no outside help or support, no nukes.

Smarshmallow

This kind of garbage is why Americans are falling behind in sicence. What kind of shiat, exactly, can Tibetan monks do that humans shouldn't be able to do? Bioregulation is not superhuman.

That was exactly my point.

It gives you energy because of the positive thinking. Prayer and meditation focus you on healing. The human body has potential that we haven't touched on yet. Why can tibetan monks sit in the mountains naked and not freeze to death? They have learned that focus. I would not be at all suprised if valid studies came about that the christians will say proved prayer helps. It does

If focus allows you to regulate your body, why wouldn't it allow you to heal faster? I think we're on the same page and talking about it differently. Don't jump the gun and refer to me as a poor student. I'm a damn fine student.

fenrael23: I would hope god would be smart enough to figure that one out.

Well it's the matter of adapting law to the language. You can very well carry on certain conversations without the word but Jews don't want to write out the whole word. It's not a mater of what words on through their head but which they write. It's not so much about God at all as people not assigning anything human to God. Something Christians got out of the business of in a real hurry and the more they anthropomorphosise God the worse it got. End up with a God wiht an ego complex and all sorts of things.

MadAsshatter: There are a number of ways for evolution and some level of creationism to exist.


Like what? Are any of these levels of crationism supported by the evidence?

Tatsuma

Tell the poor man what the actual meaning of rabbi is and how it differs from priest.

dj_spanmaster: Just because it's not seen doesn't make it so. Across the world Christians are killed for their religion. It's a statement of fact, but I bet I'll get a flaming for making this statement.

List some of these places "accross the world."

Tatsuma
Again, that's a lie. Most rabbis have Phds in secular fields.

Knowledge /= Secularism.

Judaism says that "An ignorant cannot be a pious man"

It's not a lie. It's a generalization. There are some smart religious people out there, but the average religious person is less educated than the average secularist.

Oh, yeah, and did anyone who actually RTFA notice that it was Catholic schools which had the highest rate of "deprograming" "born agains"

/TFA is blatant propaganda
//yeah... Calvin was an idiot...

AgeOfReason: There is little room for the god of the gaps to hide after a quality education.

Well said

Ohh and the whole threatining me with the lanlord ended with me and my other roomates sitting him down and talking to him. We told him that if he ever went to the CA(landlord) we would throw him out of the apartement.

We reasoned with him and it worked.

It was probably a better solution then the idea I came up with.

Mine idea involved physical violence and the threat of more to come.

//I don't deal well with threats from a 130 pound fundy with a bossy personality.

This thread worthless without the dreaded Bevets and his always zany input.

/just sayin
//Christian
///of the non-whiny, unpersecuted variety
////lots of Church BBQs
//my Savior invented the hush puppy

Smarshmallow:This kind of garbage is why Americans are falling behind in sicence.

No, Americans are falling behind in science because the school system is too busy worrying about people's feelings to actually create a curriculum and stick to it. For an education system to work, the stupid kids are gonna have to be left behind while the smart kids excel. This hand-holding bullshiat system just teaches people they're no better than anyone else, which is a lie. The other reason is that people are generally too lazy to bother with reading/studying and would rather sit at home in front of a TV screen 14 hours a day. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

If the 80% majority can't manage to not be persecuted, they're really really dumbfarks... M-kay?

Blacks in apartheid South Africa? They really were oppressed, so I guess just being 80% isn't enough to avoid it.

Christians in modern America, on the other hand are not, by any possible stretch of the imagination. However, a smallish minority of Christians seem to feel "oppressed" by the very fact that they have to share a nation with atheists, Hindus, gays, liberals, and the like. Unfortnately, this minority has been very loud for the last 30 years or so, and has significant influence in the present administration.

One interesting fact missing from this article is the proportion of college kids who go to college as atheists and come out Christians. Not 0% I suspect. In my college days there were a lot of new students who felt alone and friendless and quiet a few Christian groups took advantage of this.

The sheer magnitude of ignorance, smug self satisfaction and narrow minded bigotry shown by some of the faith haters in this thread boggles the mind. It is amusing to me to see people with no real understanding of philosophy or theology post on matters of faith. You think all Christians are ignorant young Earth creationist fundies who are just chomping at the bit to oppress you? You think that anybody who recognizes the possibility that there is an intelligence of an order which transcends normal experience is a fool? You are on a spiritual journey as are all people. You may some day have an experience which opens your eyes as many men and women who once felt as you do have in the past. All one needs to do to see evidence of the divine is open ones eyes. It is no virtue to wallow in ignorance as you, in your blinding hypocrisy, accuse people of faith of doing, so you yourselves do.

Amigajoe

That's because you're being purposely obtuse in order to avoid the (valid) point...

Actually, there was no valid point because God is on quite a different level than unicorns, et. al.. It may be that all of them are not real, but you cannot seriously discuss the existence of unicorns, et. al., in the same breath as God. Stick to arguing the case, not the person, and you might learn something.

/yet another 'free-thinking' individual?

Mr.Churka: If focus allows you to regulate your body, why wouldn't it allow you to heal faster? I think we're on the same page and talking about it differently. Don't jump the gun and refer to me as a poor student. I'm a damn fine student.

I'm not saying that it couldn't be possible, I'm saying that your blind conjecture is stoner pseudo-science. Just because something "makes sense," doesn't mean that it's true. I don't care if your a super student, your understanding of the scientific process sucks.

Smarshmallow: Like what? Are any of these levels of crationism supported by the evidence?

The argument that if god is smart enough to have created such a complex universe, do you not think he's smart enough to create a relatively straight-forward evolutionary system? Until evolution is definitively proven, don't bother whining about "evidence." From your constant typos I assume your hands are moving faster than your brain, calm down. Before you post next time, think it through in your head, then type.

The sheer magnitude of ignorance, smug self satisfaction and narrow minded bigotry shown by some of the so-called Christians on this thread boggles the mind. You think there's a spirit, even though no one has ever seen it? You think there's an afterlife, even though no one has seen it? You think that there's some divine being even though no one has ever seen it? You think that the teachings of a bunch of neolithic sheep herders are relevant today?

It is no virtue to wallow in ignorance as you, in your blinding hypocrisy, accuse people of intelligence of doing, so you yourselves do.

Tatsuma:

Very true, however most of the rabbis I've talked to (which is too small a sample to make a generalization, that's for sure) view their faith in terms of "what wisdom may we glean from these writings?" rather than making arbitrary judgements on what parts of the text should be taken literally and shoe-horned into modern life.

In the case of an educated religious person, knowledge has made religion potentially useful to the world, whereas ignorance tends to draw one to absolutes. And, this might be a shocker, anyone who deals in absolutes is probably wrong the vast majority of the time.

Always worth pointing out:

U.S. Prison Population Statistics 1997 (Source: Federal Bureau of Prisons):

Percentage of inmates of Judeo-Christian affiliation: 84%
Percentage of inmates of nonreligious affiliation: 0.2%

Percentage of US population of noreligious affiliation: 15%

Hmmm.....Remind me again why some associate atheism with lack of morality?

A person who insists on the "reality" of some magical sky person whose existance cannot be detected in any manner whatsoever is just as loony as the person who insists that they have an invisible pink unicorn living in their garage.

But what if they actually DO have an invisible pink unicorn living in their garage?

/Christians are not bad.
//EVANGELICAL Christians are bad.
///you can believe whatever you want, but leave me the fark alone.

Oztemprom: so far down thread no one will read this but...

Actually I think the lowest posts get read the most. You can see where the discussion really is by skipping to the bottom. And I don't think many people want to read through 500 posts unless they're really interested in the material.

"you cannot seriously discuss the existence of unicorns, et. al., in the same breath as God"

Sure you can. A figment of the imagination is a figment of the imagination.

You think there's a spirit, even though no one has ever seen it? You think there's an afterlife, even though no one has seen it? You think that there's some divine being even though no one has ever seen it? You think that the teachings of a bunch of neolithic sheep herders are relevant today?


Um, dude...that's their Constitutionally protected right.

/KNOWS that there is a divine being
//is married to her.

I stopped fooling myself and realized I didn't subscribe to Christianity or any other organized religion partially thanks to a Theology class at a Jesuit University

Upon reading that article i see:

"In order to stay christian, immerse yourself in christian literature, join a church, stick with church friends."

Isolationism and small groupthink, thats what it takes to be strong in "faith".

/Taoist, only met like one other taoist.
//Still taoist, cause it makes sense, and you can read the tao in like an hour.

Unicorns have just as much a possibility of existing as God. Nobody has ever documented finding one or the other. God doesn't show up on America's funniest home videos and neither does a unicorn.

For a Christian to dismiss the possibility of unicorns, trolls, flying spaghetti monsters, and gremlins is the same thing as dismissing God. Christians say you can't deny the existence of God only because there is no scientific evidence. Likewise, you can't deny the existence of unicorns et al for the exact same reason. The difference between believing in unicorns and God is only a matter of personal selection.