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(WYFF)   You know your sex-ed curriculum might be out of date when, out of 490 female students in your high school, 65 of them are pregnant   (wyff4.com) divider line 326
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21489 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Aug 2006 at 10:09 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-08-15 11:47:37 AM
SlowTimedRapid
How do they get these statistics? Are hospitals required to report teen pregnancies to the teenagers' schools?

Maybe they, oh I don't know, count the pregnant chicks?
 
2006-08-15 11:48:00 AM
Mr. Coffee Nerves: --never take your dates to see Otis Day and the Knights at a juke joint

Technicality: the events depicted occurred in the 1960s and the movie was first released in the late '70s.
 
2006-08-15 11:48:35 AM
mesmer242: And if you're not trolling, exactly how well, physically and emotionally, do you think a 8 year old can handle having a child? 8 year olds are not women, and should not be pregnant. It is sad and wrong.

Biologically, an adult of a species is one capable of bearing offspring. Despite what religious fundies would have us believe, puberty happens long before age 18. If you are capable of getting pregnant, you're physically capable of having a child. Nobody shoved the embryo up there before the plumbing was ready.

Incidentally, I believe studies (do a few searches if you're curious) suggest that women are more fertile and have healthier babies the closer they are to puberty.

Now, are teenagers FINANCIALLY equipped to raise a baby? Probably not, but that's what extended families are for. My point is, there's nothing sad about natural human reproduction.
 
2006-08-15 11:48:41 AM
My almost 19 and almost 23 year old girls are still flat bellied.

And the oldest is married, so I guess we did OK on that score.

On Calculators.

My 15 yo boy has learning issues. Special Ed. But he can do simple algebra and some harder math. A calculator just takes away the drudgery for him. Allows him to spend more time actually thinking about the problems instead of tedious math.

My 14 yo is genius. His problem in math is that he refuses to show his work. According to him, how can he show work he never does? He looks at the problem and knows the answer. So how can he show that?
 
2006-08-15 11:50:07 AM
UWOP! aisle seat...
 
2006-08-15 11:52:17 AM
pics?
 
2006-08-15 11:59:15 AM
Blues_Fan

And I think that's a good use for calculators. I'm betting your son COULD do the computations he's plugging in if he had to. The issue is the kids who are pretty much handed calculators in elementary school and never learn how to do the computations themselves.

It is silly to make kids do computations in their heads when they aren't the main focus of the problem. I could use a calculator in calculus when I was doing definite integrals and other things where computing the final number wasn't really the point of the problem.

If you ask my sister in law (who is 20 years old) the square root of 25 or the remainder if you divide 7 into 15, she'll actually sit there and GUESS rather than think or write it out.
 
2006-08-15 12:01:06 PM
Like "New Math" ?

For the most part, "new math" may refer to various things but as I have known it, it relies more on problem solving.

Despite what some people in this thread say (so obviously it varies), I got nothing out of memorizing multiplication tables.

The theories of "new math" teaches you how to do the math and why you'd do it. Then it teaches you to use a calculator when necessary.

I knew kids who could do 3-digit by 3-digit multiplication problems in mere seconds. So freakin what? But you ask them how many pieces of wood are needed if 348 people each need 138 pieces of wood (don't ask why) and they don't even know where to begin.

It amazes me when people pull out calculators to figure out tips, for instance. I don't need to do multiplication because I know that 10% plus half of 10% tip equals a 15% tip (then I can add some for good measure). Yet people either use a calculator or do hand-multiplication. Or rely on a card.

So I'm all for "new math." Parents sometimes complain about kids having to solve train problems or word problems. Those parents enjoy stupid children. Application of math is what 99% of people are going to use; those who go into math theory are good in math anyway.

I could make the same rant about college stats. I've taken stats with two different professors (but the same basic class at two different universities). One taught us how to hand calculate. The other said, "Here is the formula and why it works, now let's use a computer." Ask me to do a stat by hand and I'll laugh at you. But I covered so many more different tests; and when to use them in the latter class that the one class probably equals four or five hand-calculation classes.
 
2006-08-15 12:02:54 PM
As ridiculous as their sex-ed program is (or was), the education (or lack of) not really the issue. When I was in high school, it was socially unacceptable to get pregnant and have a kid. Nowadays, it's actually "cool" to get knocked up. By the time my sister graduated high school in 1993 (four years after me) there was no longer any stigma associated with teenage pregnancy.
I find it hard to believe that the 65 girls at Timken were unaware of how babies were made... it's more likely that they were either unconcerned with getting pregnant or actually wanted to have a baby. For those of you unfamiliar with the Akron/Canton area of Ohio, Timken is a poor high school in an economically depressed city. For kids from poor homes, having a kid is actually a step up for them financially since they can begin to collect welfare for themselves. Go welfare!
 
2006-08-15 12:04:03 PM
psh, amateurs... when I was a senior, the freshman class had about 39 girls pregnant at once... thats outa a class of about 200
 
2006-08-15 12:04:08 PM
Ok eggheads, she said reading books too, what great advances have been made in the field of reading since 1988?

If you follow the Bush plan....NONE.
 
2006-08-15 12:04:46 PM
Blues Fan

My 15 yo boy has learning issues. Special Ed. But he can do simple algebra and some harder math. A calculator just takes away the drudgery for him. Allows him to spend more time actually thinking about the problems instead of tedious math.

We used some calculators in math class but this was during trig and calculus. They were never a crutch, more of a tool. We'd be given an equation, asked where the zeros where, where the positives were, any undefined points, etc, etc. Then we'd be asked to graph. We'd change things in the equation and saw how the graph changed. It was an awesome tool. Honestly.

To that extent, I wholeheartedly agree with the use of calculators in your son's school.

The problem arises that most of your everyday math is not calculus, trigonometry, or even algebra. It's basic arithmetic. So while calculators have allowed your son to study more conceptual math, the practical aspect of it will always require a crutch for him. That's not exactly a good thing either.

Perhaps math should be treated as two subjects. One is the everyday stuff, the other is the applied or conceptual stuff. Yeah, it's great to solve a differential equation or understand what an eigenvalue is (don't ask, it's been a long time for me), but mostly these days I just add up the items on the grocery list in my head or calculate what those pants will cost me after I take off that 25% discount. Most people don't have a calculator handy for that, and neither will your son. Methinks that though he gets great benefit from using a calculator in trig next year, he should also be drilled separately on arithmetic which he will need for every day use.

/see both sides of the issue
//calculators are irrelevant. teachers make the difference and should know if a child will make it both in higher level classes as well as the supermarket.
///my 0.02 dollars.
 
2006-08-15 12:07:09 PM
I really don't understand why the problem has anything to do with the school. Teh secks is not rocket surgery. What the hell do you need a text book for? Seriously, How hard is it to sit your kid down for 5 minutes and say "This is what it is, we can't stop you from doing it, but if you do, put this on, or you will have babies or it might burn when you pee". Worked for me. "Oopses" happen, but that's the law of averages. JUST TALK TO YOUR KIDS! Sometimes I'm ashamed to live on this continent.....
 
2006-08-15 12:08:19 PM
Blues_Fan: My 15 yo boy has learning issues. Special Ed. But he can do simple algebra and some harder math. A calculator just takes away the drudgery for him. Allows him to spend more time actually thinking about the problems instead of tedious math.

Surely at high school you can't be expected to do much by hand any more. We were pretty much required to have calculators from age 13/14 and by age 16 they were strongly recommending graphic calculators.

Although I'm not convinced that the books really need to be updated if it's not for wear and tear.

I thought our math program was relatively up-to-date, but the most recent stuff we did was on the RSA-Algorithm which was developed in 1977. You certainly dont want to be doing those calculations by hand.

I get the impression that most high schools here (i moved from scotland to the us) seem to draw the line at univariate calculus, which must leave students woefully underprepared to pursue degrees in engineering fields.

Egoy: Teaching methods are constantly changed and better examples are used

Surely the Teaching should be doing the Teaching and not the textbook.
 
2006-08-15 12:08:48 PM
I don't see what the problem with having books from 1988 is.

When I was in high school, a majority of my books were published in 1988.

/graduated in 95
 
2006-08-15 12:09:11 PM
grahams: Egoy: Teaching methods are constantly changed and better examples are used

Surely the Teaching should be doing the Teaching and not the textbook.



The Teacher should be doing the Teaching. Someone should teach me how to preview.
 
2006-08-15 12:11:41 PM
Well I can see how the math text books from '88 would need to be updated. I remember back in the summer of '91 when they invented the number '3' and how it revolutionized the whole math world. Anyone stuck with those primitive '80s books are living in the stone age.
 
2006-08-15 12:11:42 PM
Catholic school in Ontario. Sex Ed. class was part of mandatory gym in grade 9. Teacher told us 'here's what the church thinks.... k, now, here's how you use a condom. if you have sex, you have to use one of these' this was followed by slides of what i can only describe as the most awful pictures of STD's i've ever seen. I haven't taken a condom off since... :S
 
2006-08-15 12:12:25 PM
The idealistic simpletons who say that there's nothing wrong with young teens (and younger!) having sex are just flat out not being realistic. They cannot support these kids and get an education. It's probably not going to be a fun life for parent or child. That's just reality.

But part of me is starting not to care any more. If we could just end welfare, AFDC, TANF, food stamps, etc, then I don't really care any longer who pumps out crack babies by age 14. Just don't make me pay for it.

The fact that the cost of raising and feeding these kids comes out of my paycheck is what makes it my business.
 
2006-08-15 12:13:09 PM
WOW

http://www.snopes.com/pregnant/medina.asp
 
2006-08-15 12:14:48 PM
SlowTimedRapid
Abstinence-based is best even from a scientific perspective

Pls cite one accredited scientist who agrees with this statement, or, better yet, stfu.
 
2006-08-15 12:16:43 PM
rga184: Perhaps math should be treated as two subjects.

When i went to scotland, it was pretty much like that.

You'd do standard grade math which would be arithmetic, trig and simple calculus. Everyone would have to do that.

Beyond that there was higher math, that most people planning to go to college did. That would bring in more complex calculus (ode's etc...) and develop better problem solving skills.

Beyond that there were a number of advanced courses. I took the Pure Mathematics one which had a lot of more theoretical stuff like number theory, groups, sets, basis'. I also did Applied Mathematics which looked are things like mechanics problems, and started introducing things like fourier transforms.

That's what blows my mind about homeschooling. I'd be hard pressed to teach the stuff I learned in high school even if my kids chose the exact same specialization as I did.

My mother is an excellent teacher, but I can't imagine how she'd start explaining what was ordinary about an ordinary differential equation - it's just not what she does.
 
2006-08-15 12:19:14 PM
ThrobblefootSpectre

If we could just end welfare, AFDC, TANF, food stamps, etc, then I don't really care any longer who pumps out crack babies by age 14. Just don't make me pay for it.

Problem is, you'd still be paying for it. If we stop all aid, some people (mostly children) will start starving or dying from exposure. Then, even if we let them die, we have cleanup costs to deal with. And unless we start turning people away from hospitals, there's cost in there too. At least if we support them, some will contribute to society later. It's a lose-lose situation, which is why i'm in favor of as much sex ed as humanly possible, since we can't just sterilize everyone at birth (would be reversible upon request any time after age 18, no questions asked. Would at least eliminate unwanted children)


/if you can't have a heart, a head for math works almost as well
 
2006-08-15 12:19:59 PM
PeopleFirst: Thank you. Even though putting your essay being here is a bit like reciting Shakespeare during a cockfight.
 
2006-08-15 12:21:07 PM
grahams:

In the U.S., ODEs are usually not taught until the second year of university. A homeschooled student who is ready to study ODEs will typically just graduate and attend college instead of getting them at home.
 
2006-08-15 12:21:29 PM
"This is what it is, we can't stop you from doing it, but if you do, put this on, or you will have babies or it might burn when you pee".

There's a lot more to it than that. A common mistake in couples that use condoms and still get pregnant/sick is that they place it on the penis backwards and try to roll it down. When they realize they did this, they turn it right over and put it on. Meanwhile, the outside of the condom has already been contaminated with pre-ejaculate risking disease/pregnancy for the girl.

Also, condoms aren't 100% effective in preventing pregancy. Kids should be informed that condoms help, but they aren't a guarantee. They should be informed of how effective different combinations of birth control are (condoms and spermicide, condoms and diaphragm, condoms and sponge). They should be informed what lubricants can be used in what condoms (female condoms and condoms classic are made of different materials). They should be informed of their alternatives should one person in the couple have a condom allergy.

Then they can decide if the failure rate of condoms is not worth the risk or if they should use another form of protection in addition to condoms if they still decide to have sex.

Finally, kids need to be taught that sex is complicated. There are emotional and power issues at stake which can be confusing for a 16 year old. In many latin american countries, girls get pregnant despite education on condoms because the boyfriends simply manipulate them by saying "if you make me wear a condom, I'll just go somewhere else". Of course, it's easy to tell them to say "fark off arsewipe" and be done with them, but the societal, gender and maturity issues are also a reality that sex ed has to deal with. It's tough to convince a 15-year old latin girl that she doesn't need to be with a guy who manipulates her and uses their relationship as a bargaining chip for sex. Machismo is very much alive and well in many cultures around the world (and through immigration, immigrant cultures in the US).

So, no, you just can't tell them to put on their happy hat if they're going to have sex. There's a lot more to sex than just the basic manual:

IN, OUT, REPEAT IF NECESSARY.

I could think of at least a month's worth of lessons right off the bat.

/two weeks would be dedicated to finding porn on teh intranets
 
2006-08-15 12:21:30 PM
No child left behind.

Just say "No".

Abstinance Only.


Hey, how's that all workin' out for ya?
 
2006-08-15 12:23:03 PM
The first Sex Ed class at my school was a video of a woman giving birth. After a 60 minute video of this womans screaming, none of the girls were giving it up for anyone.

The rest of the program gave all the facts of life, but that first class was enough to keep all the girls clean for a while.
 
2006-08-15 12:25:23 PM
When I saw the headline I thought "man it is good my old elementary school was in the press".

/Jose De Diego Community Academy in Chicago
/man those were good times
 
2006-08-15 12:25:53 PM
rga184: Perhaps math should be treated as two subjects.

grahams: When i went to scotland, it was pretty much like that.

Is that why it's called maths over there?
 
2006-08-15 12:26:21 PM
ThrobblefootSpectre: The idealistic simpletons who say that there's nothing wrong with young teens (and younger!) having sex are just flat out not being realistic. They cannot support these kids and get an education. It's probably not going to be a fun life for parent or child. That's just reality.

When I was in high school people were having sex. Guess what? There weren't a lot of girls getting pregnant or teens getting STDs. We all knew about condoms and birth control. Most of my girlfriends were on the pill in high school. The combination of that and condoms really cuts down on teen pregnancy. The problem is when you have a government telling schools not to teach sex ed, the parents aren't doing their job, and all kids see on TV and in movies is sex. You want to talk about reality? The reality is you can't live in this type of society, not teach sex ed, think that birth control is a sin, and then think that your daughter is not going to get pregnant someday.

But part of me is starting not to care any more. If we could just end welfare, AFDC, TANF, food stamps, etc, then I don't really care any longer who pumps out crack babies by age 14. Just don't make me pay for it.

Tough titties. You vote for people who tell schools they can't teach sex ed, can't hand out free condoms, you support a government that thinks the solution is abstinence only programs... You deserve to pay for welfare. In fact, I hope the amount you pay goes up...
 
2006-08-15 12:26:29 PM
Whoa. Total Fark. Cool. Thanks, anonymous donor!
 
2006-08-15 12:26:40 PM
You mean Ohioans don't know what causes pregnancy?
 
2006-08-15 12:27:30 PM
Quackedtheduck

I agree. I'm not arguing against sex ed. I'm arguing against the "biologically they can have babies so go for it" people.

Not having a heart is pretending that there is no problem.
 
2006-08-15 12:27:47 PM
something else I forgot to add:

The more you talk about sex in any context, place or company, the easier it will be for a person to talk about sex in general. A girl who has never discussed sex anywhere to any significant extent will have a hard time discussing it with her first boyfriend (and viceversa for a boy).

The pure act of having a class that discusses ad nauseam the mechanics of sex, the complications, the positive aspects, and the language (penis! vagina! cervix! condom!) trains kids to be able to talk about this stuff without major qualms when they need to.
 
2006-08-15 12:28:52 PM
ThrobblefootSpectre

I was arguing against your not wanting to pay for welfare/food stamps/etc. I don't think the people arguing that an eleven year old should be having babies are really worth responding to.
 
2006-08-15 12:29:28 PM
WillisBueller

That's becasue in Ontario, safe sex education isn't optional. Becasue we aren't retarted.
 
2006-08-15 12:30:21 PM
(I liked typing that)


You're right, he CAN do them, but he'll only one done.
In his case, the calculator is a tool that allows him to internalize a concept without concentrating on the drudgery.

It is, I think, a good thing.

/
 
2006-08-15 12:32:05 PM
cornreaper: Is that why it's called maths over there?


Probably. I'm becoming too Americanised.

In britain we tend to keep the plurality of our contractions, so statistics becomes stats.
 
2006-08-15 12:32:30 PM
pwhp_67 You deserve to pay for welfare. In fact, I hope the amount you pay goes up...

WTF??

Dude see a doctor. (Probably one that I pay for.) Your meds aren't working any more.
 
2006-08-15 12:36:20 PM
Ambitwistor: In the U.S., ODEs are usually not taught until the second year of university. A homeschooled student who is ready to study ODEs will typically just graduate and attend college instead of getting them at home.

That would explain why the american students at my university struggled.

Granted our admissions department tended to be a little distracted by big piles of foreign money and make statements like "don't worry if you haven't done calculus, you'll pick it up as you go along".

I'd have been bored as hell in high school without this stuff, there's only so much time you can spend playing cards and sneaking off to the pub.
 
2006-08-15 12:36:34 PM
grahams
In britain we tend to keep the plurality of our contractions, so statistics becomes stats.

Interesting. In Canada we say math, and stats. I can't think of any other examples tho.
 
2006-08-15 12:37:19 PM
germ87 FB- (pronounced Eff-Bee-to-the-dash) is who you're refering to. Never met the Farker, but have read the remnants.

baorao when is your employer ever going to say I want this done, error free, without the use of technology?" With the condition of the power grid infrastructure, you MAY want some electricity-free backup.

And for all you "Haw-Haw on the red-state fundies" types out there, please check the voting record for Canton, OH. I think you'll find it a Blue island w/in the boundaries of the school district.
 
2006-08-15 12:37:36 PM
rga184, i think it's a little more difficult to get pregnant than you believe. usually, a tiny speck of pre-cum just won't do it in most cases. also, a condom is extremely effective protection against both pregnancy and STI's when used correctly. other than that, i agree that sex education should be extensive. kids who want to have sex will have sex whether or not they are educated and know the risks and how to minimize them. trust me, i just graduated from HS in 2004 and i'm young enough to remember.

SkArcher:
The first Sex Ed class at my school was a video of a woman giving birth. After a 60 minute video of this womans screaming, none of the girls were giving it up for anyone.

The rest of the program gave all the facts of life, but that first class was enough to keep all the girls clean for a while.


ahhh, you could probably pitch that to these school systems as a viable alternative. abstinence-based sexual education coupled with scare tactics. cuz you know, scare tactics make the world go round.
 
2006-08-15 12:37:52 PM
ThrobblefootSpectre: WTF??


You're either a troll or one of the ignorant voters who has been a part of the problem.

We have a government that is bowing to the religious right and sex ed is becoming a thing of the past. This kind of a problem should be decreasing not getting worse. How the hell can teens not know what causes pregnancy and not know how to have safe sex? This is not the Victorian Age!

Then you come along and your big solution is to end social programs like welfare and food stamps.

Yeah, that'll help. Thanks for your input...
 
2006-08-15 12:38:20 PM
Yes, it's the fault of sex ed curriculum and not the slutty teenagers.
 
2006-08-15 12:39:06 PM
rga184, you are officially my new hero. Now how do I elect you president?
 
2006-08-15 12:39:08 PM
girlienerd: When I was in high school, it was socially unacceptable to get pregnant and have a kid. Nowadays, it's actually "cool" to get knocked up.

Sad but true. Today, many younger teens see a baby as an accessory/doll they can dress up in cute little Baby Gap outfits & hand over to their own Mommy or Auntie to raise. You can see the connection with how they name their babies, too; kids are given bizarro names in a oneupmanship contest over which teen mom can be more creative. These girls rarely connect teen mommyhood with no more spending sprees at the mall/changing diapers constantly/3AM feedings/having a hard time finding a boyfriend or husband who doesn't mind raising another man's kid/etcoontil it's too late.

I half suspect a lot of these teen moms encourage their non-pregnant "friends" to have a baby simply because misery loves company.
 
2006-08-15 12:40:41 PM
should be kid/etcoontil it's too late.

/curse my metal body R2, I wasn't fast enough!
 
2006-08-15 12:40:54 PM
Not having a heart is pretending that there is no problem.

Or offering ineffective, unrealistic "solutions" such as those based on some peoples' personal views of morality, rooted in myth, instead of viable solutions that will actually help teens. Then, shaming, ostricizing and disgracing said teens when they do what comes naturally.

They are set up to fail, so that these sanctimonious SOB's can judge them and feel better about themselves. That is not having a heart. And indeed the opposite of Jesus' teachings...
 
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