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(DKos)   "I know there are millions of brave, decent conservatives." Checks source again. Attempts to disbelieve   (dailykos.com ) divider line
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596 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Aug 2006 at 1:28 PM (9 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-08-14 12:46:43 PM  
Anyone see Pat Buchanon on Mclaughlin yesterday?

JM: Keep this up and they will leave you out in the cold
PB: I am already, where do you think I have been for six years?

/When the Republicans become more conservative that Pat Buchanon there is a big problem
 
2006-08-14 01:00:03 PM  
Awesome article. Well said!

This country needs more guts and fewer chickenshiat neo-cons.
 
2006-08-14 01:15:33 PM  
ChairmanKanga:When the Republicans become more conservative that Pat Buchanon there is a big problem

The current Republican party is by no means conservative. Conservatism is about limited government, fiscal responsibility, and personal responsibility. The Republicans aren't about any of those.
 
2006-08-14 01:32:58 PM  
El Freak: The current Republican party is by no means conservative. Conservatism is about limited government, fiscal responsibility, and personal responsibility. The Republicans aren't about any of those.

Who cares... support tax cuts, go against abortion + gays, and you'll pick up most of the paleocon base, apparently.
 
2006-08-14 01:40:17 PM  
elchip:Who cares... support tax cuts, go against abortion + gays, and you'll pick up most of the paleocon base, apparently

100% correct, unfortunately.
 
2006-08-14 01:41:48 PM  
I admit I've oft lamented
Brothers who've become demented
Brown nosed with breath that's taint scented
I wonder where their honor went......ed
 
2006-08-14 01:41:51 PM  
Wow. Five posts, and it's already all been said.

Anybody got any good pie recipes?
 
2006-08-14 01:45:48 PM  
Too bad the good ones seem to be drinking the Kool-Aid.
 
2006-08-14 01:48:52 PM  
I used to think that Buchanon was a scary-minded person. He now seems to be quite correct on a lot of things.
 
2006-08-14 01:50:28 PM  
The aim of the terrorists is to disrupt our lives and our economy. What's astounding is that we are such willing participants in this by letting them. One deranged guy tries to light his shoes on fire, and three years later millions of Americans are taking off their shoes in the airport. We're giving these people exactly what they want.

I'm just saying...
 
2006-08-14 01:51:37 PM  
What's with the constant "risks from terrorism are less than (insert disease/accidents here)" text?

Of course it's not a major threat when compared to Heart Disease or crossing the street.

Hell, you can go to Iraq and fight, only 2500 troops have died when compared with the 100,000+ that have gone over. Pretty good odds.

It's a stupid comparison, because terrorism is not heart disease or crossing the street. It's a foreign attack on US soil or interests, and the death of of a civilian on an airliner from a foreign attack should be considered differently than when a 75 year old man suffers a heart attack or a car accident takes a life. Using the comparison as some sort of "terrorism is no big deal" justification is not valid reasoning.

It's been a long time since any power threatened US soil, so the attacks in NY and the Pentagon are the first most of us have seen that hit home. It's natural to assign more weight than maybe they even deserve, but it's not credible to dismiss them as statistical minutiae.

As for 'neocon' radio, I don't know if they think Al Queda is the biggest threat ever. For me, the Russians in the 70s and 80s were the biggest threat ever. But that doesn't mean I will ignore terrorists using US planes just because they are unlikely to cause my demise.

I do have to agree, I'm not obsessed with terrorism either, I agree with the blogger on that point.

/just an op-ed piece (again)
//next up: links to Ann Coulter?
 
2006-08-14 01:57:01 PM  
the biggest redneck here:I used to think that Buchanon was a scary-minded person.

He still is. While I think he's a very intelligent dude and makes a lot of sense on a lot of things, his religious and social stances are only slightly less whacko than Fred Phelps. You would NOT want this man elected to anything.
 
2006-08-14 01:59:27 PM  
Nobody's saying we shouldn't do anything about terrorism, but it's time to put things in perspective. We have ways to mitigate risks associated with heart disease, automobile accidents, cancer, lightning strikes, etc. We also ought to have ways to mitigate the threat of terrorism.

Facilitating in having the country wet their collective pants, gutting the constitution, and starting a war against a country that was no threat to us are not productive ways of marginalizing terror.

Land of the free.
Home of the brave.

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
 
2006-08-14 01:59:47 PM  
I say we bring back the Whigs and Torries and start all over.
 
2006-08-14 02:00:49 PM  
Good thing not a one of them holds public office
wait...
 
2006-08-14 02:01:37 PM  
bboy: Anybody got any good pie recipes?

Not quite pie, but I guarantee you'll like this:
1 (18.5 ounce) package yellow cake mix
1/2 cup butter, melted
2 eggs
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1 (8 ounce) package cream cheese
2 eggs
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
4 cups confectioners' sugar

1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C).
2. Mix cake mix, melted butter or margarine, 1 teaspoon vanilla, and 2 eggs with a spoon. Pat into a 9 X 13 inch pan.
3. Mix cream cheese, 2 eggs, and 1 teaspoon vanilla with an electric mixer. Slowly beat in confectioner's sugar. Pour over cake layer.
4. Bake for 40 to 45 minutes. Cool.
 
2006-08-14 02:01:47 PM  
Patrick Henry: "give me liberty or give me death!"

Modern Republican Voter: "I'm SCARED...look I peed on myself again! Take anything you want! Listen to my phone! Read my mail! Watch me wherever I go! Attack anyone!! Just PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pretend to make the bad men go awaaaaaaaaaaaayy!!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAHH!"

I totally agree with the guy. Absolute, total farking cowards who are so afraid of some islamic rednecks armed with semtex and AKs, they're willing to give up freedoms and let the government spy on them in ways that would have been totally unacceptable 30 years ago, when every one of us lived every day less than 30 minutes from total nuclear devastation.

So terrified of a third-rate Middle Eastern dictator that they're willing to spend $600 billion dollars and the lives of over 2,500 servicemen and women to make him go away.

Let me repeat: you who voted for and/or support Chimpy and the Republican leadership are absolute farking cowards.
 
2006-08-14 02:03:37 PM  
I have to say, the strangest marriage in all of modern American politics is the union that binds the GOP together.

I feel genuinely sorry for economic conservatives. It must be very tiring to have to continually make excuses for the fundie cock that's sliding in and out of your collective ass.
 
2006-08-14 02:06:41 PM  
its scary to see how bush and hitler used almost the same tactics to get their country to support them.

/if you dont believe me, look it up. its called history books, read them. please.
 
2006-08-14 02:08:05 PM  
Hey can anyone tell me what party I belong to?
I believe in gay marriage, moderating abortion, stem cell research as long as fetuses aren't killed just for it, no estate tax, and freedoms to own a gun.
 
2006-08-14 02:08:55 PM  
"I'm not obsessed with terrorism. Sheesh, I barely even think about it."~Kos

Nice. The latest polls, the question was asked, "In deciding your vote for Congress this year, which ONE of the following issues is most important to you? . . ."

Terrorism was third most popular response.

In other polling news, 52% of the American people would be willing to support a major increase in the cost of airline tickets to pay for additional security at airports and on planes to prevent terrorism - the thing that never enters in Kos's head. For a majority of Americans to be willing to stomach price increases for anything is remarkable, even more so because according to Kos, it's nothing to think about at all.

Say what you will, the man has his finger on the pulse of what is important to Americans. This is just an issue that cuts against the extreme left, which is why Kos attempts to downplay it.

Being concerned about cancer doesn't mean people wet their pants when they think about it. They don't fear it the way they might fear being invited to dinner at Hannibal Lecter's. But they would like to address it anyway, maybe look for treatment and cures, prevention maybe. That's because it is concerning, perhaps.

Neither is concern about terrorism a reflection of cowardice as Kos implies. Being concerned about people who do not mind killing themselves in order to take out a much larger number of Americans who they have never met and have no personal grudge against seems to be appropriate. On the other hand, it is entirely appropriate for there to be dissenters in the War on Iraq without them being labeled traitors and cowards.

This type of outrageous rhetoric - on both sides - discredits itself.
 
2006-08-14 02:10:22 PM  
What a bunch of hypocrites at the KOS. The Dems and the Reps use the exact same political tactics. They get the people so riled up about the other party that people are willing to overlook how their own party is deceiving them. Neither side has any interest in solving problems. Instead, they both politicize, and spin everything in a never ending cycle of deceit and obfuscation. Who cares if the Reps are doing so and so, if the Dems are doing the same thing. And vice versa...

/rant off
 
2006-08-14 02:10:53 PM  
Harry Potter:I feel genuinely sorry for economic conservatives.

How many of those are left? I would say not many. At least not enough to have any real say in the party. Any semblance of economic conservatism has been completely abandoned by the Repubs, and the perpetually scared pansies and the religious nutters have pretty much taken over.
 
2006-08-14 02:11:08 PM  
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death

/fark these cowards that use their fear as an excuse to alter the fundamental rights our country was founded upon ... traitors, all of them
 
2006-08-14 02:13:54 PM  
VoodooPunk:What a bunch of hypocrites at the KOS. The Dems and the Reps use the exact same political tactics. They get the people so riled up about the other party that people are willing to overlook how their own party is deceiving them. Neither side has any interest in solving problems. Instead, they both politicize, and spin everything in a never ending cycle of deceit and obfuscation. Who cares if the Reps are doing so and so, if the Dems are doing the same thing. And vice versa...

You sir, are dead on. I would just like to see the Democrats win back the House just so there's no more one party rule. Right now, gridlock looks like a beautiful thing.
 
2006-08-14 02:13:54 PM  
Psycho Doughboy: Hey can anyone tell me what party I belong to?
I believe in gay marriage, moderating abortion, stem cell research as long as fetuses aren't killed just for it, no estate tax, and freedoms to own a gun.


Here's a nice quiz. After taking it, you can scroll down and match yourself up with other groups (besides Senators).
 
2006-08-14 02:17:55 PM  
2006-08-14 02:08:55 PM Paineful

This type of outrageous rhetoric - on both sides - discredits itself.

Exactly. And both sides (usually) have their points of rhetoric. Both sides have points buried somewhere in their rhetoric, but they blast it at such high levels, that it gets hard to figure out what it is, or if it even truly merits consideration.

2006-08-14 02:06:41 PM Deaner911

its scary to see how bush and hitler used almost the same tactics to get their country to support them.

Not sure how much I agree with you, Deaner. While I'm not as familiar with Hitler's tactics (I'm 23 and went to public school), it is pretty lame that with nothing else to show for 6 years in office, Bush is playing the fear card. I don't remember reading that Hitler did that, but I can see how he would have done that. My understanding is that after he rebuilt the German economy (from FAR worse conditions than Bush turned ours around), he played more of a blame card than the fear card. But again, I went to public school.


2006-08-14 02:08:05 PM Psycho Doughboy
Hey can anyone tell me what party I belong to?
I believe in gay marriage, moderating abortion, stem cell research as long as fetuses aren't killed just for it, no estate tax, and freedoms to own a gun.


The wackos, as far as either party is concerned. Truth is, you probably are one of the more rational ones around.

The more I pay attention, fair to say that the less and less I trust the government. Whenever career politicians came to the fore, that was a dark day in US History, if you ask me.
 
2006-08-14 02:20:33 PM  
Psycho DoughboyHey can anyone tell me what party I belong to?
I believe in gay marriage, moderating abortion, stem cell research as long as fetuses aren't killed just for it, no estate tax, and freedoms to own a gun.


You sound like a Libertarian to me.
(link pops)
 
2006-08-14 02:20:45 PM  
VoodooPunk: Who cares if the Reps are doing so and so, if the Dems are doing the same thing.

That's just the problem, the democrats in Congress have become too complacent and not offering a real alternative. Hence the excitment over the Lamont victory.

Most of the problem is that we don't have nearly the turnover in Congress that we'd need if we want to see things get done. Republicans piss off their constituents, a Democrat gets elected. If he does the same things, he'll get booted, ad nauseum. Eventually someone will get the hint and actually do what the voters wanted. Unfortunately, this won't happen with a 98% reelection rate.
 
2006-08-14 02:25:50 PM  

How many of those are left? I would say not many. At least not enough to have any real say in the party. Any semblance of economic conservatism has been completely abandoned by the Repubs, and the perpetually scared pansies and the religious nutters have pretty much taken over.


No, they're still there, silently watching as the fundamentalists run amok. Where do you think the push for Social Security privitisation came from? The ZOMG DEATH TAX rhetoric? The tax cuts for the rich? The corporate welfare? The private contractors for governmental business? The lobbyists? The prescription medication bill?

These corporatist doings are the real aims of the Republican party, but they are downplayed in favor of GaY MaRrIaGe FlAg BuRnInG PrAyEr iN ScHoOls WaR On cHrIsTmAs LiEbRaL TrAiToRoUs MeDiA FlIp fLoP WiTh Us Or AgAiNsT uS MuShRoOm ClOuD OnE nAtIoN uNdEr GoD JaNeT jAcKsOn'S TiTtY $2o0 tAx ReFuNd 9/11 SaDdAm HuSsEiN NeVeR FoRgEt bullshiat because the economic conservatives know it will get them votes.

It's sad and dishonest, but the entire GOP will be judged for it in November.
 
2006-08-14 02:26:36 PM  
hokiebuckeye: Bush is playing the fear card. I don't remember reading that Hitler did that, but I can see how he would have done that. My understanding is that after he rebuilt the German economy (from FAR worse conditions than Bush turned ours around), he played more of a blame card than the fear card.

Then there was the Reichstag fire, done by the Nazis, but blamed on the Communists. The fear card was a sure bet from that point on.

The comparison to Hitler is to a large extent hyperbole, at least so far. But, it does serve as a warning about what can happen and how dictatorships can take power in a Democracy. We must learn from history.

Quote from Hermann Goering, Hitler's 2nd-in-command at the Nuremburg trials:

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
 
2006-08-14 02:33:54 PM  
RocketRod

I say we bring back the Whigs and Torries and start all over.

Isnt that sort of like what we have now?
 
2006-08-14 02:34:54 PM  
bboy: Anybody got any good pie recipes?

Not a pie, but an easy delicious rum cake (Cake and alcohol?! How could it get any better?)

1 cup chopped pecans
1 (18.25 ounce) package yellow cake mix
1/2 cup dark rum
4 eggs
1/2 cup water
1/2 cup vegetable oil
1 (3.5 ounce) package instant vanilla pudding mix

Glaze
1/2 cup butter
1/8 cup water
1/2 cup white sugar
1/4 cup rum

DIRECTIONS:
Preheat oven to 325 degrees F (165 degrees C). Grease and flour a 10 inch tube or Bundt pan. Sprinkle nuts over the bottom of the pan.
Mix together the cake mix, 1/2 cup dark rum, eggs, 1/2 cup water, oil, and vanilla pudding mix. Pour batter over the nuts in the pan.
Bake for 1 hour. Cool, and invert cake on a serving plate. Prick the top of the cake.
To Make The Glaze: Melt the butter in a saucepan. Stir in 1/8 cup water and the 1/2 cup sugar. Boil for 5 minutes, stirring constantly. Remove glaze from heat, and stir in 1/4 cup rum. Drizzle and smooth evenly over the top and sides.


Easiest. Cake. Ever.

/P.S. Add more rum than the recipe calls for.
 
2006-08-14 02:36:52 PM  
"its scary to see how bush and hitler used almost the same tactics to get their country to support them."

Apparently it's a family tradition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush
Or use Google if you don't like Wiki.
 
2006-08-14 02:39:06 PM  
Thank You Friskya, hokiebuckeye, and elchip

The quiz said I wsa on the line between liberal and libertarian.
 
2006-08-14 02:43:46 PM  
Harry Pooter: Where do you think the push for Social Security privitisation came from? The ZOMG DEATH TAX rhetoric? The tax cuts for the rich? The corporate welfare? The private contractors for governmental business? The lobbyists? The prescription medication bill?

Unfortunately, only the first three of that list are truly fiscally conservative.

The rest is government welfare for corporations, which is inherently unconservative.

But maybe the fiscal conservative/pro-business line has been blurred a long time. Conservatives are pro-business, but their way is to simply not tax or regulate them, not give them money and allow them to essentially buy votes.
 
2006-08-14 02:46:38 PM  
Oh, and my recipe-

Green Curry Paste (aka Green Sting):

Thai green curry paste uses fresh green chiles and is prized for its herbaceous, aromatic flavor. It is most often used in poultry, seafood, and vegetable curries. Small green Thai chiles, also called bird chiles, are less than an inch long and provide the most authentic heat and herbal flavor. This recipe is designed to be prepared in a food processor. Cut the quantities in half if using a minichopped. See the illustrations below for tips on handling lemon grass. A glass container is the best option for storing curry paste.

Makes about 2 cups (for 4 curries)
30 green chiles (Thai), or 15 green serranos, stemmed, seeded, and chopped coarse (about 3/4 cup)
4 large jalapeño chiles (green) or 6 medium jalapeño chiles, stemmed, seeded, and chopped coarse (about 3/4 cup)
3 - 4 stalks lemon grass , outer sheath removed, bottom 3 inches trimmed and minced (about 1/2 cup)
2 medium shallots , chopped coarse (about 6 tablespoons)
20 medium cloves garlic , minced or pressed through a garlic press (about 1/3 cup)
1/4 cup minced cilantro stems
3 tablespoons minced fresh ginger
2 tablespoons ground coriander
2 tablespoons peanut oil (or canola)
4 teaspoons grated lime zest from 4 limes
2 teaspoons ground cumin
1 teaspoon table salt
1/2 teaspoon ground white pepper
1/2 teaspoon anchovy paste , or shrimp paste, (optional)

Place all ingredients in a food processor and pulse 10 times, each pulse lasting 4 to 5 seconds; stop and use a spatula to push down the ingredients every few pulses. Once the ingredients begin to form a paste, process until smooth, stopping occasionally to push down the ingredients, about 3 minutes. Store in a covered glass container or bowl in the refrigerator for up to 1 month or in the freezer for several months. (If freezing, divide the curry paste into 1/2-cup amounts, so that one portion will make one recipe, and freeze individually.)
 
2006-08-14 03:51:01 PM  
""its scary to see how bush and hitler used almost the same tactics to get their country to support them."

Apparently it's a family tradition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush
Or use Google if you don't like Wiki."


Godwin^2 ?

/will have to check the equations.
 
2006-08-14 04:02:07 PM  
Psycho Doughboy: I believe in gay marriage, moderating abortion, stem cell research as long as fetuses aren't killed just for it, no estate tax, and freedoms to own a gun.

You'd easily pass for a Democrat. They might want to convince you otherwise on the Estate tax thingy, but other than that, nothing here that would scare off most Democratic voters.

That probably isn't what you think of Democrats--since they are portrayed in a vastly different light.
 
2006-08-14 04:14:50 PM  
Psycho Doughboy: Hey can anyone tell me what party I belong to?
I believe in gay marriage, moderating abortion, stem cell research as long as fetuses aren't killed just for it, no estate tax, and freedoms to own a gun.


Both parties would call you a traitor to the cause. If you don't conform, you don't belong. Sorry.
 
2006-08-14 04:18:30 PM  
This:

img75.imageshack.us

is a pretty good description of why these 'conservatives' act the way they do. It's mostly John Dean's summary of psychological research he has stumbled upon in his own attempts to figure out what happened to conservatism.

Although, I have to admit, a lot of the findings are sort of obvious if you have spent a lot of time on Fark political threads.
 
2006-08-14 04:20:59 PM  
VoodooPunk: Both parties would call you a traitor to the cause. If you don't conform, you don't belong. Sorry.

Harry Reid is a pro-life Democrat. And the minority leader in the Senate.

Your characterization of the Democrats, at least, seems to be lacking.
 
2006-08-14 04:50:19 PM  
Skleenar: Your characterization of the Democrats, at least, seems to be lacking.

Maybe we should ask Lieberman about that.
 
2006-08-14 04:59:04 PM  
VoodooPunk: Maybe we should ask Lieberman about that.

And to clarify, I'm not talking about his recent switch to an independent. I'm talking about his stance on the war in Iraq. Feel free to google some forum topics that discuss his position on Iraq and what Dems have to say about it. :)
 
2006-08-14 04:59:41 PM  
VoodooPunk: Maybe we should ask Lieberman about that.

You should ask the Connecticut voters about that.

Your either buying into or promulgating the fiction that the Lieberman defeat indicates some sort of 'radicalization' of the Democrats.

Lamont is hardly a radical. And is it really too much to expect of voters that they might want to vote for a candidate that espouses a view that 60% of America (and over 80% of Democrats) agrees with?
 
2006-08-14 05:04:36 PM  
Rare clap for the Daily Kos. Spot on. More guts, less cowardice.

C'mon America! Buck Up!
 
2006-08-14 05:33:24 PM  
Skleenar: You should ask the Connecticut voters about that.

If you're not "on-board" with the cut and run philosophy currently promoted by the Democrats, your not a "real" Democrat regardless of how long you've voted for them. Perhaps a better example would have been Zell Miller, or McCain on the Rep's side of the isle. I'm not even talking about Lieberman's defeat in the Primary. I'm talking about how the man is regarded by a huge amount of Democrats.

The best way to truly understand what I'm talking about is to take a look around the internet at the type of comments Dems have made about Kermit or Miller (or McCain to see the same "tolerance of other viewpoints" on the Rep's side).

/obviously we're talking in generalities here as a political label doesn't really in any way guarantee ascribed behavior.
//My original post was meant to be slightly facetious.
 
2006-08-14 05:39:25 PM  
VoodooPunk: The best way to truly understand what I'm talking about is to take a look around the internet at the type of comments Dems have made about Kermit or Miller (or McCain to see the same "tolerance of other viewpoints" on the Rep's side).

Zell Miller?

You mean this Zell Miller?

img111.imageshack.us

You know, the only thing that Democratic voters seem to really hold against their elected representatives is when the elected representative is really a Republican.
 
2006-08-14 05:54:39 PM  
Skleenar: You mean this Zell Miller?

Yes, that Zell Miller. The one that the Dems were all too happy to have when he towed the party line, but immediately discounted anything he had to say as soon as he got the balls up to start admitting what he really believed. He's been a Democrat longer than I've been alive, but he's also a "traitor" to the party for not being anti-war. He's still a social liberal, but it just aint enough.

You know, the only thing that Democratic voters seem to really hold against their elected representatives is when the elected representative is really a Republican.

And yet they seem just fine with elected representatives that claim to be Republican but are really Democrats (McCain). Go figure.
 
2006-08-14 06:07:27 PM  
VoodooPunk: He's been a Democrat longer than I've been alive, but he's also a "traitor" to the party for not being anti-war. He's still a social liberal, but it just aint enough.

In 2004, Zell Miller received a 15% by ADA, an organization that ranks politicians based on how "liberal" their votes were. This is a totally objective rating, as it merely counts the number of times a candidate voted with or against the positions of ADA.

The average for Senate Democrats in 2004 was 89.6%.
The average for Senate Republicans in 2004 was 19.6%.

Let's go backwards...

2003:
Miller 10%
Senate Democrats 82.7%
Senate Republicans 13.3%

2002:
Miller 30%
Senate Democrats 85.5%
Senate Republicans 11.1%

2001:
Miller 35%
Senate Democrats 91%
Senate Republicans 13%

He wasn't just anti-war during his Senate career. He was more of a Republican than many Republicans.
 
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