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(ABC)   Cops shoot peaceful protester with rubber bullets and then laugh heartily about it afterwards, on videotape   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 1249
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27633 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Aug 2006 at 12:39 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-08-11 05:53:04 PM
Headso: so what about the 2 times she was hit while laying on the ground? Somehow the whole crowd was behind her prone body?

and how do you explain all the back patting the police had when they talked about shooting her?


The non-lethal weapons I've seen used are about as accurate as a paintball gun. I've also seen the sheer insanity of a violent crowd. Which is why I really don't discount the possibility that this woman was hit accidentally while standing, sitting, or prone between the police and a mob. That being said, the police should be scrutinized to make sure they acted professionally. The evidence I have seen does not prove that unnecessary force was used.

I've already commented that the laughing was juvenile. It was pathetic.
 
2006-08-11 05:53:34 PM
She was clearly outside one of the free speech zones designated by Bush, and therefore, a perfectly viable target to be shot in the back. During peaceful protests it is not the duty of our nations finest to serve and protect the public but rather to support the policies of the present administration and to silence the voices of dissent. Christ, we are at war! You are either with us, or against us.

/I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway
 
2006-08-11 05:53:54 PM
Jake Steed: uh, no she wasn't, sorry you lose

You assert that she wasn't a victim, I asked you what she did to deserve being shot at. You responded to someone else with a dismissive remark.

What did Ms. Ritter do to deserve being shot at, even with rubber bullets?
 
2006-08-11 05:54:30 PM
Jake Steed

how can you claim she wasn't a victim?

Does this mean that cops can roam the streets and randomly shoot people with rubber bullets? Or can they only do it if the person insults them first?

Or do you claim the woman had been justifiably targetted and shot? If it wasn't justifiable, targetting her specifically pretty much makes her a victim.
 
2006-08-11 05:57:21 PM
rockman55: Oh well. I'm going up to Yosemite to climb El Cap this week, and I'm sure I'll run into a hundred dicks like you "on vacation," which, of course, means staying in a posh cabin/hotel. I'll pee on your types from the top.

You see, that is the problem with your whole point of view, Now you are not a senseless rock throwing Dick like Clarence Butterworth I give you that. But to go around feeling so HIGHLY SUPEEERIORR to the "others" out there who might just like to enjoy a nice vacation or a few creature comforts is not being progressive, or reasonable, its just being an elitist lefty dick.

And there is no real reason for it either. There is plenty of room to be concerned about the downtrodden AND be a capitalist. There is room to have conservative opinions about some issues AND be concerned about the enviroment.

And in case you didn't catch on, Steed was just yanking your chain.
 
2006-08-11 05:58:18 PM
VoodooPunk: The non-lethal weapons I've seen used are about as accurate as a paintball gun. I've also seen the sheer insanity of a violent crowd. Which is why I really don't discount the possibility that this woman was hit accidentally while standing, sitting, or prone between the police and a mob.

so you condone shooting so wildly into a crowd that an unarmed person not involved in the conflict was hit 3 times? that alone is really negligent, even if they didn't specifically target her.

I've already commented that the laughing was juvenile. It was pathetic.

It was more then juvenile it was an admission of guilt, they talked about hitting her in the forehead with a less then lethal round, which is against police procedure in itself.
 
2006-08-11 05:58:28 PM
I hope each of those cops gets shot in the stomache by a meth head and they die painfully in an alleyway, their wives then all become prostitutes to support their broken families and their orphan kids get hooked on meth and shoot the next round of cops.

/facist shiatheads burn in hell
 
2006-08-11 05:58:36 PM
Manic_Repressive
You're a sick fark. A fire's too good for scum like you, you need to be slowly electrocuted like that poor guy was.

Awww... What's the matter, first clubbing seals, next it's clubbing humans. Which one you like better? Humans are more fun.

Welcome to America, It's your freedom stand up and it's my freedom to push you down.
 
2006-08-11 05:58:39 PM
If you're involved in a violent protest and you get hurt you are not a victim. You have to accept the consequences of your behaviour and shouldn't balme anyone else. I applaud Miss Ritter for accepting responsibility for her stupdidity and not balming the police. So yes headso, you're right, she is a victim of her own stupidity.

And for the those who don't know any better there are many types of nonlethal/rubber bullets. Some have higher weight and caliber. Are any of those pictures of the protestors with welts from the Miami protest? I would think that if she were shot in the forehead from that range and lived then they were most likely using a much lighter/dense bullet, and for the guy who called me stupid go look it up dumbass.

And with that I'm off to get drunk a beat up some filthy hippies in the park.
 
2006-08-11 06:03:26 PM
VoodooPunk

The non-lethal weapons I've seen used are about as accurate as a paintball gun. I've also seen the sheer insanity of a violent crowd. Which is why I really don't discount the possibility that this woman was hit accidentally while standing, sitting, or prone between the police and a mob. That being said, the police should be scrutinized to make sure they


I don't know how paintballs compare to rubber bullets in accuracy, but paintballs are not designed to hurt, are larger than rubber bullets, and are liquid center and splatter on impact.

Rubber bullets are solid, heavier than a paintball, and can blind a person if hit in the eye.

When playing paintball, one generally wears protective gear too. The crowd being hit with rubber bullets generally isn't wearing any protection.

There was no violence occurring in the crowd when the cops started shooting. The woman was also hit while cowering on the ground, so it seems the cops weren't simply trying to shoot past her to "quell" the crowd. The cops simply wanted to push the protesters away rather than stop any violence occuring.
 
2006-08-11 06:04:41 PM
Jake Steed: And with that I'm off to get drunk a beat up some filthy hippies in the park.

confucius says:
"An internet tough guy and his anal virginity will soon be parted"
 
2006-08-11 06:05:28 PM
Jake Speed:
If you're involved in a violent protest and you get hurt you are not a victim. You have to accept the consequences of your behaviour and shouldn't balme anyone else. I applaud Miss Ritter for accepting responsibility for her stupdidity and not balming the police. So yes headso, you're right, she is a victim of her own stupidity.

It wasn't a violent protest, at least not until the cops started shooting. Basically you are saying if you are in a protest, the cops are justified in hurting you.
 
2006-08-11 06:11:55 PM
rockman55

Sorry man, I didn't mean to rag on you. It's just a pet peeve of mine. Based on my observations of society:

Liberals aren't as enlightened as they think they are.
Conservatives aren't as moral as they think they are.
Independents aren't as avant-garde as they think they are.

And me? I'm just a dick. But you do some good in the world and I respect you for that. Seriously.
 
2006-08-11 06:12:12 PM
don't lie
Most of us would love to shoot people with rubber bullets and then laugh about it

/I sure would
 
2006-08-11 06:14:44 PM
Jake Steed: And with that I'm off to get drunk a beat up some filthy hippies in the park.

Good luck with that bro. If you tried that in my town they'd be calling the coroner for you.

It's funny too, cause I've seen it happen at a college party years ago. Course that will happen, when some out-of-towner thinks they can run through a party yelling "get a job you dirty hippies" without any consequences at a school where the primary sports teams are Surfing and Womens Volleyball. That guy was dropped like a sack of potatoes and carried out of there rather quickly by his out-of-town buddies...

/cali
//where i live, YOU and your ideas are the exception
///and there are some mighty big hippies here
////$1 to whomever guesses the college
 
2006-08-11 06:16:59 PM
Good to see the fascists out in force today. That's right, kids, the government is your friend. You can trust it with your rights. Statism is Godliness.


.
 
2006-08-11 06:17:26 PM
As for all your NeoCons who say that no protest has ever made much of a difference...

It's called the civil rights movements.

By the way, ever heard of a guy called Ghandi?

There's a place called South Africa where some black people are a bit happier than they were twenty years ago. A bit.
 
2006-08-11 06:17:56 PM
fark the pigs.
 
2006-08-11 06:19:28 PM
Jake Steed

If you're involved in a violent protest and you get hurt you are not a victim. You have to accept the consequences of your behaviour and shouldn't balme anyone else.

Oooh, can I join in? I'll do the lefty version: "If you're involved in an economically violent society and you are robbed, raped, or killed by a poor person, you are not a victim." (And remember that capitalism is an inherently violent system.)

Isn't it FUN to come up with transparent justifications for violence?
 
2006-08-11 06:20:17 PM
shooting unarmed people is not misbehaving?

It depends on what the "unarmed" people are doing. If they're rioting, or throwing bricks and bottles at the police, then no, it's not misbehaving.
 
2006-08-11 06:20:58 PM
ClamHammer


I hope each of those cops gets shot in the stomache by a meth head and they die painfully in an alleyway, their wives then all become prostitutes to support their broken families and their orphan kids get hooked on meth and shoot the next round of cops.

/facist shiatheads burn in hell


This mentality is the same problem with these cops. They look at a group and think it's perfectly ok for bad things to happen to them. It's an us vs them attitude.

This is the same mentality that vigilante's and terrorists share, as well as many self-righteous citizens. If you think it's ok to treat your neighbor badly because you heard she did something bad, you might share this mentality too.

These cops did something wrong. They should be punished for it, but not to the extent of physical abuse, death, or having their wives become prostitutes to survive.

The officers in charge of the squad should be fired. The cops who shot bullets should be reprimanded. The officers who attended the speech where they clapped and laughed should be given retraining too.

But suggesting we need to physically hurt these cops just perpetuates the problem.
 
2006-08-11 06:23:32 PM
If some jerkoff cop shot me with a rubber bullet at a peaceful protest, I guarantee the bullets I shot back will NOT be made of rubber.

Oh, Goody! Another ITG!!! If you were confronted by the police, you'd whimper and whine like the little biatch you are.
 
2006-08-11 06:25:14 PM
Since the 1970¹s rubber bullets have been a state sanctioned form of crowd control. They have made their appearance in Northern Ireland, Palestine, Buenos Aires, Barcelona, Los Angeles & Oakland, California & most recently Miami, Florida. So far munitions in our research appear to be for either 12 gauge shotgun or a 37/40 mm launcher; moreover, these projectiles are available in a variety of formats designed to produce what is referred to as Œblunt trauma¹, as well as those that deliver various chemical munitions.

9mm/.357/.40 caliber No information currently available, research in-progress.

12 Gauge Shot Less Lethal Munitions1 * Rubber Rocket Projectile. A direct fire, behavior modification 12 gauge round which fires a 115 grain, 80 durometer rubber projectile, producing controlled and directed incapacitation by blunt impact trauma. This round was designed for single target engagement allowing escalation of force from a safe distance prior to the use of lethal means. Min/Max Range: 20-45 yards. 2

* Power Punch Ballistic Bag3 . An innovative 12 gauge round, utilizing the industry¹s only 50 gram ballistic bag. This round produces a painful and powerful blunt impact at the remarkably low average of 270 fps thereby reducing your liability profiles in relation to lethal ammunition. The round remains more aerodynamic due to the projectile¹s encasement by ballistic nylon versus cotton. Also available in low and medium power (26 gram bag). Min/Max Range: 10-25 yards.

* Tri-Dent. A direct fire, behavior modification 12 gauge round which fires 3 each, 46 grain, 60 durometer rubber projectiles, producing controlled and directed incapacitation by blunt impact trauma. This round was designed for single target engagement allowing escalation of force from a safe distance prior to the use of lethal means. Min/Max Range: 7-25 yards.

* Hornet¹s Nest. A direct fire 12 gauge round which fires 20 each, .308 diameter rubber projectiles, producing a stinging effect designed to result in behavior modifications, retreat away from officers or immediate response to issued commands. This round was designed for single or multiple target engagement allowing escalation of force from a safe distance prior to the use of lethal means. Min/Max Range: 3-10 yards.

37/40 mm Munitions The basic idea of the above indicated munitions are replicated in the much larger caliber projectiles in this category with the added effect of increased levels of pain as indicated in this candid sentence referring to a single ball (or Œmono-ball¹) projectile in the 37/40 mm category. ³The MONO-BALL launches one, 25 gram rubber projectile, producing controlled and directed incapacitation by blunt impact trauma and excruciating pain.² 4

Minimum/Maximum range for this caliber is roughly 7-20 yards. The mis-nomer of Œnon-lethal¹ weapons becomes most apparent when one considers the parameters for use of these weapons & the crowded, sometimes confusing nature of a demonstration. The manufacturers of these products themselves acknowledge that these weapons are part of a continuum of violence - from less-lethal to lethal force - admittedly when police begin to fire these weapons & the panic, tension & anger of a crowd escalates as a direct result of this behavior on the part of the police, the ensuing melee will more than likely problematize the parameters of the alleged safe use of these weapons. Consequently, one could infer that in these instances the likelihood of these weapons being abused would increase. Panic on the part of a police officer may decrease the likelihood that such weapons will be used at the proscribed safe distances, or conversely, as a crowd panics & begins to run the inability of a police officer to avoid aimming the weapon at a part of the body (such as head, neck, or torso) where the likelihood of lasting injury would occur would increase. Below, to facilitate the dispelling of the disinformation surrounding these tools of violence are some medical quotes relating to injureous & potentially permenant effects of Œnon-lethal¹ munitions. * Professor Michael Krausz, a researcher from Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, said that a study had shown that low penetration projectiles were very serious weapons that could maim and kill. He urged that rubber bullets not be used for crowd control because their slow velocity did not prevent major harm.

img75.imageshack.us

Ouch!
 
2006-08-11 06:26:49 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence

"shooting unarmed people is not misbehaving?"

It depends on what the "unarmed" people are doing. If they're rioting, or throwing bricks and bottles at the police, then no, it's not misbehaving.


What about if the "unarmed" people aren't doing those things? Is it misbehaving then?

If the police weren't trying to quell violence, but simply wanted to push the non-violent crowd back, is it misbehaving then?

What about targetting and shooting a person just trying to cover their face and cowering in fear? Is it misbehaving then?

I'll be honest with you, I generally dislike protesters. I'd rather see them go away and stop interfering, regardless of their cause. But I can't support the police doing this sort of thing.
 
2006-08-11 06:26:56 PM
If you run around with the Black Blocks as this woman was doing, you deserve to get your ass handed to you.
 
2006-08-11 06:28:03 PM
www.commondreams.org

I've had worse hickeys than this.
 
2006-08-11 06:33:23 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence


If you run around with the Black Blocks as this woman was doing, you deserve to get your ass handed to you.


Regardless of who you hang around with, it's not justification. That's the same mentality that ClamHammer expoused against fascists.

How do you even claim she hangs around with the black block? Were the black block even AT that protest? Or does the fact that the black block exist mean that ALL protesters are the same?
 
2006-08-11 06:34:09 PM
What about if the "unarmed" people aren't doing those things? Is it misbehaving then?


If you lie down with dogs, you shouldn't be surprised when you wake up with fleas.

If the police weren't trying to quell violence, but simply wanted to push the non-violent crowd back,

If you watch the videos, they pushed the crowd back peacefully. Then the crowd stopped moving, and the bricks came out, so they opened fire with rubber bullets.

You seem to be missing the entire reason behind the protest. There's a core of instigators that travel around the world to start riots and destroy stuff during these meetings in an effort to get press coverage. The people who do this are complete and total scum. They're terrorists. And getting shot with rubber bullets is a far softer response than these people deserve. My vote for best response goes to the Carbineri in Italy that parked the Land Rover on the Black Block kid's head.

But I can't support the police doing this sort of thing.

That's because you've never seen these things yourself.
 
2006-08-11 06:35:44 PM
Shut up and turn on Fox News.

/All better now, huh.
 
2006-08-11 06:36:58 PM
How do you even claim she hangs around with the black block? Were the black block even AT that protest? Or does the fact that the black block exist mean that ALL protesters are the same?

Ummm...because she was at one of their functions?

Just because you put a red dress on a Black Blocker doesn't change who the person is.
 
2006-08-11 06:44:15 PM
I laugh everytime I hear a cop gets shot or dies in the line of duty

Why am I not surprised?
 
2006-08-11 06:50:04 PM
Those cops deserve nothing less than to be hanging from streetlamps with their entrails on the street below.

SMAF

There's a core of instigators that travel around the world to start riots and destroy stuff during these meetings in an effort to get press coverage. The people who do this are complete and total scum. They're terrorists.

You're talking about the people with guns and body armor right?

And getting shot with rubber bullets is a far softer response than these people deserve.

1st amendment, due process surrender.
 
2006-08-11 06:52:52 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence

Oh, Goody! Another ITG!!! If you were confronted by the police, you'd whimper and whine like the little biatch you are.


unlike you...I am not a pussy. If a cop opened fire on me when I am standing around videotaping a scene, I would respond in kind.
 
2006-08-11 06:55:14 PM
Pigs.
 
2006-08-11 06:55:26 PM
I_Make_Jebus_Cry

Secret Master of All Flatulence

Oh, Goody! Another ITG!!! If you were confronted by the police, you'd whimper and whine like the little biatch you are.

unlike you...I am not a pussy. If a cop opened fire on me when I am standing around videotaping a scene, I would respond in kind.


Don't take it personal dude, SMAF just gets angry at anyone who wouldn't get on their knees and lick the boots in front of them like a good citizen.
 
2006-08-11 06:56:03 PM
Those cops deserve nothing less than to be hanging from streetlamps with their entrails on the street below.


Somehow, I don't think you'd like the results if you tried to do such an illegal thing.

You're talking about the people with guns and body armor right?

Nope, I'm talking about the far-left loonies.

1st amendment, due process surrender.

Neither the First Amendment nor the Due Process clause are absolute.
 
2006-08-11 06:57:46 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence: Ummm...because she was at one of their functions?

Do you have any evidence of your claims at all?

Hey, I hear you live in a town where there are criminals, we need to shoot into the town to get these criminals so I hope you don't mind that you or your family will get shot. I mean, if you didn't want to get shot you wouldn't live in a town that has criminals.
 
2006-08-11 06:58:42 PM
If a cop opened fire on me when I am standing around videotaping a scene, I would respond in kind.

Um, you'd most likely be dead before you could get off a shot.

It's been my experience that the ITGs who talk the loudest and scream about "not being taken alive" or shooting police officers are the ones who surrender without even a whimper.
 
2006-08-11 06:58:58 PM
Fark It

yeah, I realize that. Just because she's a TF-er doesnt mean she can't be a troll.

She also wrongfully assumes everyone thinks like she does. I am not, nor will I ever be...afraid of my government.

ALSO unlike SMOAF, I have the courage of my convictions, and would rather DIe than be subordinate to the government.
 
2006-08-11 06:59:04 PM
CreepyNeighborGuy: Filth, YOU are missing the point.

The shooting of rubber bullets was NOT justified. The intended reason for rubber bullets is not so that cops can take pot shots at civilians without killing them. It's to defuse a riot without resorting to killing people.

There was no riot. These people weren't being violent. The woman who was shot was walking away when she was first shot, and she was cowering in fear after the cops were shooting more bullets when she was hit in the face.

Sure, if it had been justified, then laughing about it wouldn't have been a big deal, but this wasn't justified.

On the other hand, even if it had been justified, the cops were incredibly stupid to laugh about it while KNOWING they were being taped.

If a gangbanger gets beat up by the cops while he's resisting arrest, and the cops see the tape later and laugh about it while making suggestions about getting trophies, it would still be offensive.


I specifically said that I was making an assumption for the purposes of argument (which, apparently, no one here has ever heard of before). I also included directions to follow if you didn't like the assumption. "STFU" reprinted here for your convenience.

OK, but I agree with you on the intelligence of the officers laughing on tape. And I think you're about to make an interesting point with your gangbanger hypo. What's your reasoning?
 
2006-08-11 07:00:03 PM
Don't take it personal dude, SMAF just gets angry at anyone who wouldn't get on their knees and lick the boots in front of them like a good citizen.

I've never asked anybody to lick my boots.
 
2006-08-11 07:01:14 PM
ALSO unlike SMOAF, I have the courage of my convictions, and would rather DIe than be subordinate to the government.

You pay taxes, don't you? So why aren't you dead yet?
 
2006-08-11 07:02:50 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence

Then again, most of them dont keep CAR-15's ready to go do they?

You see..the problem is that you are projecting your personality to other people. Not everyone is a coward like yourself.

If you doubt me...bring it, biatch. Admittedly, it IS odd on fark for someone to actually back up what they say...but I think you just found one of us.

Are you a cop? If you are, all you have to do is come knock on my door and say "I'm here to confiscate your firearms". You would find out very quickly that I am indeed....not joking.
 
2006-08-11 07:03:32 PM
SMAF


You pay taxes, don't you? So why aren't you dead yet?


You're pretty dense. Paying taxes does not make you subordinate to the government. The government is always subordinate to the people.

/we pay them
//we employ them
///we (should) discipline them when necessary
 
2006-08-11 07:04:07 PM
Vanity: Eh - there's no point arguing. You're still going to block my roads and businesses with your stupid farkign cause b/c you think it's your God given right to protest and get in the way of others. That's why you protest down busy streets right? To distrupt at many lives as possible for your plight.

Ya, you can protest in America, but it's not your right to inconveince me and the thousands of others who have to stand idly by as you cause a scene, make lots of noise, and generally prohibit me from going about my dailly life b/c of an agenda YOU want.

I dont give a fark about your agenda. Nor you. That's why I hate protestors. YOU DONT REPRESENT EVERYONE. STOP THINKING YOU DO. STOP BLOCKING OUR LIVES FOR WHAT *YOU* WANT.


My god you're an idiot. I don't even know why I'm responding to you, because you're always going to BE an idiot regardless of however much sense someone tries to verbally beat in to you.

We are guaranteed a right to protest. You are not guaranteed a right to a life free of "inconveince" (sic)

Quit being a whiny pussy.

I hope someone shoots you in the face with a rubber bullet.
 
2006-08-11 07:05:00 PM
Jeez CreepyNeighborGuy, thanks for raining all over my vitriolic tirade with your rational level headed response.

But seriously, sure, the cops don't 'deserve' to die per se, just lose their jobs and be disciplined. But that won't happen, in fact they'll all set around circle jerking one another for how cool it was to beat up hippies, and maybe some putz will get desk duty for a week.

And this will never change while idiots like 'Secret Master of all Flatuance' equate protesters with terrorists. That's is just what the police and the state want; so frankly, at the end of the day, I really would rather see these vicious animal cops dead than destroying the rights we and our ancestors/forefathers/brothers etc. fought and died to secure for this country.
 
2006-08-11 07:05:50 PM
Then again, most of them dont keep CAR-15's ready to go do they?

Your paranoia is showing.

If you are, all you have to do is come knock on my door and say "I'm here to confiscate your firearms". You would find out very quickly that I am indeed....not joking.

So I guess you've never been arrested, eh? Not even for speeding, right? I mean if you had ever been pulled over by a cop for speeding, you'd have shot him with your "CAR-15", right?

Internet Tough Guys are so SCARY!!!
 
2006-08-11 07:07:47 PM
The government is always subordinate to the people.


Really? Then why isn't medical marijuana legal?

We elect the government. Once we do that, we are subject to the laws passed by the government, even if we don't like them.
 
2006-08-11 07:08:52 PM
Secret Master of All Flatulence

Since you've ignored the request should we take it to mean that no, you don't have anything to back up your statements?
 
2006-08-11 07:09:04 PM
We are guaranteed a right to protest.

Um....sort of. Time, place, and manner restrictions on the right to protest have all been upheld by SCOTUS.
 
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