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(Fox News)   Not news: Pres goes on vacation amidst world turmoil. News: Press excoriates him. Fark.com: Fox News   (foxnews.com) divider line 130
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1810 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Aug 2006 at 2:32 AM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-08-07 12:49:57 AM
Wow, it must be the end of the world.
 
2006-08-07 12:50:17 AM
Dictionary.com is going to get a bashing when this headline goes live.

/yeah, me too
 
2006-08-07 12:51:43 AM
Like it really matters...

img453.imageshack.us
 
2006-08-07 12:52:39 AM
what's hard about the fact that when a president, any president, goes on vacation, his job goes with him? he still deals with foreign policy in particular every day.


/one of the more asinine criticisms of bush, particularly when there are far more legitimate ones.
 
2006-08-07 12:52:52 AM
Presidents never really are on vacation.

/obvious
//always a stupid point of criticism
 
2006-08-07 12:53:33 AM
I feel helpful today, so here's for the 3 that need it. You know who you were going to be.

1. To tear or wear off the skin of; abrade.
2. To censure strongly; denounce: an editorial that excoriated the administration for its inaction.
 
2006-08-07 12:54:21 AM
Not surprising at all.

Susan Estric is one of the Uncle Tom liberals who work for FOX.

She ran Dukakis' campaign for crying out loud.
 
2006-08-07 12:56:31 AM
good, the Man needs a break, let him go and relax. I'm sure you all wouldn't cancel a planned vacation because sales slumped/sales soared, or the boss was in a pickle.
 
2006-08-07 12:57:43 AM
Don't people learn things from context anymore? My nasty hag of an engrish teacher harped on that constantly. Dictionaries are great except they'll never tell you what tap means in "I'd tap that" when referring to Jessica Alba.

/you want to put a valve in her to control the release of her internal fluids?
 
2006-08-07 01:00:24 AM
you want to put a valve in her to control the release of her internal fluids?

Why yes, yes I do.
 
2006-08-07 01:00:37 AM
PETA is pissed due to President Bushs alleged worm drowings.
 
2006-08-07 01:05:17 AM
2006-08-07 12:57:43 AM7of7
Don't people learn things from context anymore?


I'm pretty widely read etc., but I had never seen that word before. I guessed what it meant as far as the context above was concerned, but still checked the dictionary to get to the real underlying meaning.

Context usually only gives you one definition, and sometimes not that.
 
2006-08-07 01:05:32 AM
Churchill2004

what's hard about the fact that when a president, any president, goes on vacation, his job goes with him? he still deals with foreign policy in particular every day.

Because WW3 is on the verge of breaking out. This is a particularly bad situation and Bush should give at least the perception that he is taking it very, very seriously...instead, he goes off to the ranch.

And 20 bucks says we see a photo op of him clearing brush or some other equally useless activity in the next few days.
 
2006-08-07 01:07:26 AM
panfried

good, the Man needs a break, let him go and relax. I'm sure you all wouldn't cancel a planned vacation because sales slumped/sales soared, or the boss was in a pickle.

Yes, but see, being leader of America tends to demand a bit of responsibility that most other jobs don't.

Not to mention he's already taken more vacation time than pretty much any other president.

Not like he's a shining beacon of leadership when he's in the office, but...
 
2006-08-07 01:07:58 AM
Kenny B TF
"PETA is pissed."

/So what;s new?!
 
2006-08-07 01:10:19 AM
Bush has been on vacation since 1973.
 
2006-08-07 01:11:14 AM
Sun God: Bush has been on vacation since 1973.


Niiiice.

Green...whee!
 
2006-08-07 01:16:41 AM
Yeah, I check the dictionary all the time too because it's so easy to hit up define:whatever on Google. Mainly that just shows that most words don't really have a meaning that is universally agreed upon.
 
2006-08-07 01:20:25 AM
Churchill2004: what's hard about the fact that when a president, any president, goes on vacation, his job goes with him? he still deals with foreign policy in particular every day.

Well, he might now... but there was that silly little brief that got overlooked that mentioned some arab dude was determined to attack the US back in mid-2001...

"Now watch this drive!"

It doesn't matter really if he's taking his work with him or not, the image that is being projected to the world is that he doesn't give a rat's ass because he needs him some R&R. I say when the troops he sent over to Iraq get a respite he can take one too.

This is what Kerry was talking about back in the last election, about the global view of america and "international approval". He caught hell for it and was ripped from one end of the media to the other, and yet here he understood that when you do whatever the hell you want, take vacations, invade soverign countries pre-emptivly, etc etc, it tends to have an effect on our global standing. We are, after all, in this "globalized" economy that the republicans wanted to push for so badly during the 90's. We are no longer an island with immense power, we're intricatly tied to the rest of the planet now.
 
2006-08-07 01:29:46 AM
submitter: Pres goes on vacation amidst world turmoil.

Is the world ever not in turmoil somewhere?

The_Flatline: Well, he might now... but there was that silly little brief that got overlooked that mentioned some arab dude was determined to attack the US back in mid-2001...


You mean the one with the alarming headline and absolutely no detail as to how, when, or where what so ever?
 
2006-08-07 01:36:03 AM
Maybe he'll catch an even bigger bass and get a new top moment of his presidency.
 
2006-08-07 01:36:18 AM
We all need 'Down Time".
/ And my population includes some 300 persons.
 
2006-08-07 01:44:12 AM
The_Flatline: Well, he might now... but there was that silly little brief that got overlooked that mentioned some arab dude was determined to attack the US back in mid-2001...

It doesn't matter really if he's taking his work with him or not, the image that is being projected to the world is that he doesn't give a rat's ass because he needs him some R&R.




funny, the only people actually complaining are those who hate bush for political reasons, while nobody else gives a rat's ass.

every head of state does this. except maybe prime ministers in a parlimentary system, but every nation that has a HoS similiar to the american president (france, russia, most of latin america) has exactly the same thing.

do you have any complaints about something that only gets done when he's in washington? no, because everything that happens when he's in washington still gets done when he's in texas.
 
2006-08-07 01:45:16 AM
oh, and the whole 9-11 brief gripe is so retarted it doesn't deserve a response.
 
2006-08-07 01:50:10 AM
Learn a new word today.
 
2006-08-07 02:02:18 AM
Churchill2004: funny, the only people actually complaining are those who hate bush for political reasons, while nobody else gives a rat's ass.

every head of state does this. except maybe prime ministers in a parlimentary system, but every nation that has a HoS similiar to the american president (france, russia, most of latin america) has exactly the same thing.

do you have any complaints about something that only gets done when he's in washington? no, because everything that happens when he's in washington still gets done when he's in texas.


See, the issue to me isn't that Bush can't (or won't) be working in Texas. It's more about the image that he's projecting to the world. Regardless of how much work is actually getting done, the perception (to both Americans, and to other nations) is that he is on 'vacation.' To continue with this 'vacation' in the middle of a major world crisis (and yes, Snowflake Tubbybottom, there's always turmoil somewhere, but you'd have to acknowledge that an actual war in the Middle East is a significant event) sends the message that the United States isn't particularly concerned.

Diplomacy is all about these sorts of messages. When a country sends 'lower-level' diplomats to a particular conference/negotiation, it sends one message; when it sends a head of state (or more senior diplomat), it sends another.

International relations, like politics, is all about perception, and for that reason, the President going on 'vacation' in the middle of a potentially major world conflict (particularly with Lebanon's rejection of the proposed cease-fire) is a mistake.
 
2006-08-07 02:09:17 AM
Churchill2004: do you have any complaints about something that only gets done when he's in washington? no, because everything that happens when he's in washington still gets done when he's in texas. oh, and the whole 9-11 brief gripe is so retarted it doesn't deserve a response.


While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard
(pops)

Roemer then asked Tenet if he mentioned Moussaoui to President Bush at one of their frequent morning briefings. Tenet replied, "I was not in briefings at this time." Bush, he noted, "was on vacation." He added that he didn't see the president at all in August 2001. During the entire month, Bush was at his ranch in Texas. "You never talked with him?" Roemer asked. "No," Tenet replied.
 
2006-08-07 02:11:23 AM
 
2006-08-07 02:13:14 AM
POAC

The "ok, you've covered your ass" response to the warnings is the cherry on top of that particular shiat sundae.
 
2006-08-07 02:14:56 AM
Abagadro: The "ok, you've covered your ass" response to the warnings is the cherry on top of that particular shiat sundae.

Isn't it though? Sickening. And heart breaking.
 
2006-08-07 02:16:55 AM
El_Perro: International relations, like politics, is all about perception, and for that reason, the President going on 'vacation' in the middle of a potentially major world conflict (particularly with Lebanon's rejection of the proposed cease-fire) is a mistake.


Acknowledging that it makes no difference where he parks his butt for 10 days will play no role in whether this conflict gets resolved is what seperates perception from reality. Putting any merit into political posturing is what only leads to more empty posturing.

Results matter, posturing doesn't.
 
2006-08-07 02:17:24 AM
POAC: While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard
(pops)



there was no farking "9/11 warning"! it was a brief that had no new information, and even if the contents of the memo received the immediate and full attention of the president, nothing could have been done because the memo didn't say jack shiat about what was going to happen!
 
2006-08-07 02:17:35 AM
If he can work just as well from his dude ranch in Tejas, and he is still on the job, then why doesn't he rule from Tejas all the time? What is the point of commanding his people from the White House?

Can the apologists answer this?
 
2006-08-07 02:19:52 AM
And-1: What is the point of commanding his people from the White House?


tradition?

i still haven't see anybody name anything that can't be done from crawford.
 
2006-08-07 02:21:58 AM
Churchill2004: i still haven't see anybody name anything that can't be done from crawford.


He can't gaze whistfully down the Mall wondering where all the shops are.
 
2006-08-07 02:23:45 AM
Churchill2004: i still haven't see anybody name anything that can't be done from crawford.

How about quickly and easily meet, in person, with advisors, congressmen, pentagon officials, diplomats, etc.

Although in an autocracy, I guess that is all superfluous.
 
2006-08-07 02:24:29 AM
Abagadro: He can't gaze whistfully down the Mall wondering where all the shops are.

Now that is funny.
 
2006-08-07 02:27:24 AM
Churchill2004: it was a brief that had no new information,

Wow, you must have a really high clearance since the contents of the PDB are still classified

and even if the contents of the memo received the immediate and full attention of the president, nothing could have been done because the memo didn't say jack shiat about what was going to happen!

Since he chose to do nothing, we will never know what could have been averted if his full attention had been devoted to the problem. Prior attacks had been stopped by having significant attention brought to them from the top down (i.e. the Millenium plot). The speculation either way doesn't take away from the criticism of the failure to pay attention to what was clearly a significant threat. Guess they were too busy working on the oh-so-critical missile defense shield which was their highest defense priority at the time.
 
2006-08-07 02:28:08 AM
Snowflake Tubbybottom:

Acknowledging that it makes no difference where he parks his butt for 10 days will play no role in whether this conflict gets resolved is what seperates perception from reality. Putting any merit into political posturing is what only leads to more empty posturing.

Results matter, posturing doesn't.


It's too late to close that particular Pandora's Box. Posturing always matters. Think about all the posturing that's being done by both sides of the aisle right now because of midterm elections.

He who postures best, wins.

So why not choose a better time to go on vacation (I know: tradition, Congress is gone, blah blah)? Or cut it short by two weeks? Even one?

The perception around the world is, like it or not, that we are the only country that can get a handle on Israel, and perhaps work with them toward a solution. If our president doesn't use the weight of his office and the weight of Washington, then it is going to seem as if he isn't taking this seriously.
 
2006-08-07 02:30:43 AM
Churchill2004: there was no farking "9/11 warning"! it was a brief that had no new information,

Your congnative disssonace is showing. The article linked and quoted wasn't about the ignored August 6th PDB. Tenet wasn't able to meet with Bush for a month before 9-11 because Bush was on vacation.

And there was a warning. About 54 warnings, actually.

52 from the FAA and FTA

One from Egyptian sources

and the August 6th PDB.
 
2006-08-07 02:31:27 AM
Snowflake Tubbybottom: Acknowledging that it makes no difference where he parks his butt for 10 days will play no role in whether this conflict gets resolved is what seperates perception from reality. Putting any merit into political posturing is what only leads to more empty posturing.

Results matter, posturing doesn't.


Yes. Yes it does. As I argued above, International Politics is all about perception, all about posturing. Perception influences reality, in that gestures like this send the message that the US just doesn't view this issue as a big deal, and these messages affect the way other countries act.

Is it a game? Sure. But it's one that we have to play. Just because the US says "we're not going to posture" doesn't mean that the rest of the world is going to stop posturing, and doesn't mean that the rest of the world is going to stop reading into the US's actions.

The point is, Bush's vacation sends a message, and the administration knows it. That point is beyond dispute, and that was really the only point I was making.
 
2006-08-07 02:32:25 AM
Whoa, El_Perro.

Spooooooooky.
 
2006-08-07 02:33:34 AM
Wow, you must have a really high clearance since the contents of the PDB are still classified

img.photobucket.com

YA RLY!
 
2006-08-07 02:34:32 AM
VendingMachine: The perception around the world is, like it or not, that we are the only country that can get a handle on Israel, and perhaps work with them toward a solution. If our president doesn't use the weight of his office and the weight of Washington, then it is going to seem as if he isn't taking this seriously.


Or the more correct conclusion is that we (he) support Israel in ridding hezbollah, just without being incredibly open about it. The previous posturing in the form of a UN resolution saying as much provides the cover of doing nothing. Until Israel's neighbors get serious in dealing with them peacefully there is much chance for any lasting peace in the region.
 
2006-08-07 02:36:51 AM
VendingMachine: The perception around the world is, like it or not, that we are the only country that can get a handle on Israel, and perhaps work with them toward a solution. If our president doesn't use the weight of his office and the weight of Washington, then it is going to seem as if he isn't taking this seriously.

Exactly. Look at it this way: Bush - as the leader of the world's biggest power, as the leader of the country with the most influence on Israel, as the leader of the free world - could have done a lot. He could have invited Israeli and Lebanese leaders to the White House. He could have gone personally to the UN. He could have put on a show of meeting with his cabinet, with Bolton, with anyone - he could have made it looked like he was taking this issue seriously.

Instead he went to his ranch, and put out one picture of himself, Rice, and (I forget who else was in the picture) looking at the draft resolution.

What does that say to the rest of the world about the US's commitment to dealing with this issue?
 
2006-08-07 02:37:53 AM
What a superlative president this one is.

Fewest vetos
Most vacations
Largest debt
Most signing statements
....

Superlative indeed.
 
2006-08-07 02:38:30 AM
VendingMachine: Spooooooooky

Spooky? I just thought we both made a pretty obvious point (IR is about perception), refuting a pretty idiotic point (posturing doesn't matter).
 
2006-08-07 02:38:51 AM
El_Perro: Lebanese leaders



are you farking serious?

i could understand if you mean lebanese gov't leaders, though that wouldn't accomplish anything, but if you mean inviting hezbullah to the white house, well... i don't think i need to say anything about that.



so the entire basis of your complaint is that he isn't "looking busy"?
 
2006-08-07 02:41:21 AM
Heh. Heh. It's hard work.
 
2006-08-07 02:41:28 AM
If anyone needs help figuring out if Bush works just as hard on vacation as he does in D.C., look at Katrina. Bush took two days to take federal action. That federal action took place as soon as he returned to D.C. In the mean time he did his usual photo-ops, fund raisers, and plugs for various causes. KATRINA forced him to end his vacation. Obviously, if he could do his presidenting in Crawford as effectively as in D.C., he'd have stayed in Crawford.

Even Scotty seemed to think that Bush came back to work to get more done off of vacation

McClellan told reporters no less than five times that it was the president's "preference" to return to the White House. Asked if the decision was more "symbolic" than logistical, McClellan said, "I disagree with the characterization."
http://tinyurl.com/92ked

/no clicky for you
 
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