Processor ships in Alaska have been using fish waste to power their ships for some time now.

biodiesel is a feel good green technology
it doesn't scale very well.

oooooooo Navy Seals!

That is a prety cool machine, I'll have to go down to the waterfrount and check it out. We're building the worlds largest biodiesel production plate here in Ectopia, kinda fits in.

\stuck at work today
\\back to Autocad

Waterfront...
Plant...
ok so I didn't spell check

A yacht that runs on biodiesel. I bet the hippies just pass out when they see it.

biodiesel is a feel good green technology
it doesn't scale very well.

tell that to the Brazillians

anti altenative fuel morans, they don't think very well

"On Friday, he was saying he didn't know how back home - where his wife and daughters ages 10 and 11 await him - the family would pay for the electric or phone bills this week."

Sell your crap and live on the boat, idiot.

Not impressed

Separated at berth?

Read about this in the paper when it was visiting Vancouver, I meant to go and see it, but never got around to it.
Oh well.

Separated at berth?

separated at Perth?

Garm


BioDiesel isn't "the" solution, neither is ethanol, solar, wind or any other one technology. Put them all together, then you have something...

Golf clap

He drove his family into the poorhouse for that? Nice guy.

When the kids start selling their butts to pay his bills, I
hope their clients are gentle.

sarcastrow: tell that to the Brazillians

Tell them to email us some land to grow our sugar cane on.

Tell them to email us some land to grow our sugar cane on.

Got lots of that currently growing tobacco that YOU pay to grow. We could try havesting cudzoo (sp) too.

sarcastrow
Since when has ethanol been classified as biodiesel?

Does he have ninjas aboard to fight the pirates he's going to run into off the coasts of Africa?

sarcastrow: Got lots of that currently growing tobacco that YOU pay to grow. We could try havesting cudzoo (sp) too.

We should try harvesting everything, because we use more than 300 million gallons of gas a day. We don't have enough land for biodiesel, even if it did produce more energy than it requires to make.

smeag0l

sarcastrow
Since when has ethanol been classified as biodiesel?

They are doing both, the ethanol has been getting all the press but their boidiesel operation is up and comming.

\any Brazillians here to elaborate?

I wonder how he convinced the wife...

You stay at home honey...
I'm gonna cruise the world in my yacht.
/oh, don't worry about the bills
//Honey - have you seen my xxxlarge speedo's?

even if it did produce more energy than it requires to make.

old and busted argument, the same can be said about gasoline if you use the same methodology that the study you site used.

I like biodiesel but I like ethanol more, I can brew that more easily in my back yard from the waste.

It can run on animal fat?

I don't understand why people think we can grow enough plants/animals to process into burnable hydrocarbons and power a large percentage of vehicles.

I can push a car, that would be a clean form of transportation, it is just about as scalable and practical as "biofuel".

The guys a class act. You gotta hand it to him.

sarcastrow: old and busted argument, the same can be said about gasoline if you use the same methodology that the study you site used.

Yeah those neocon scientists at Berkley are in Big Oil's back pocket.

paygun: we use more than 300 million gallons of gas a day.

We could cut that to 200-250 million if our politicians had the balls to do a propaganda campaign for conservation. People need to stop commuting long distances by themselves in trucks and SUVs. Leave the SUV at home and buy a small, safe commuter car. Save some money and buy a model that's five years old. If people can't even afford that, they made a poor decision having so many kids to require the SUV in the first place.

eqtworld: I don't understand why people think we can grow enough plants/animals to process into burnable hydrocarbons and power a large percentage of vehicles.

People think that because they don't understand how much fuel we use.

If we all started using fryer grease in our diesels instead of regular fuel we wouldn't be able to drive anywhere because the whole country would be blanketed in 3 feet of french fries and chicken nuggets.

I odn't tihnk you could divert enough organic material to biodisel/ethanol to replace over 5% of our current hydorcarbon demand (I forget who did this calculation, based on areable land and agricultural efficiencies, etc). 5% is not nothing, but it is also far too small to ignore our other options.

Also, raise the mpg requirements by another 5 or so. That'll increase fuel efficiency 20%. Since consumers shop by price so much, automakers aren't willing to make their cars more fuel efficient because of the cost. If all the companies have to, then they'll all have the same costs.

Neimo: People need to stop commuting long distances by themselves in trucks and SUVs. Leave the SUV at home and buy a small, safe commuter car. Save some money and buy a model that's five years old. If people can't even afford that, they made a poor decision having so many kids to require the SUV in the first place.

I think that's true. In the end it's going to require laws on what kind of car people can drive, how far away from work they can live, and how many children they can have.

All we need is an army of politicians who will commit career suicide and we're set.

paygun Yeah those neocon scientists at Berkley are in Big Oil's back pocket.



ha haha ha pwn3d !

seriously though. seed-to-stock ethanol is of marginal value at best. It is mostly a form of farm subsidy at this point.

That still leaves agricultural/organic waste to fuel schemes. these have positive economics, but now you are talking sub 1% hydrocarbon replacement. Every tiny smidgen helps, have at it.

IMHO this is how the argument for bio fuel sounds to me:

Concerned person: We are burning too much fossil fuel, it is filthy, expensive and cant last forever.

Hippie: Look at all the plants and animals around here! There must be a way we can kill them, grind them up and burn them in our vehicles!

Big Oil Guy: Good idea hippy, I know that will never work, so here is a shiat load of money to run commercials about your wonderful, earth saving idea. 30 second spots showing green pastures and talking about clean energy should make the average person think an engine that runs on sunshine and farts is just around the corner. *suckers*

Neimo, the newer Toyota Crawlolas (I kid I kid, my toyota Corolla has gone 128 and is a '91, has almost 200,000 miles on it) gets about 41mpg highway and costs about 13,000. Most people just don't want it though because they think their SUV is safer or their pickup is, or their minivan (despite them only having 2 kids...) Even with every safety feature and what not the Corolla is still under 20,000.

People are just stupid bastards who want something to show off in, even if they cant afford it.

If your not worried about safety but worried about picking up chicks and getting good gas mileage, getting a sports bike is the way to go. If I didn't drive on the 2 deadliest roads in California all the time I'd probably get one.

I use biodiesel every day in my New Beetle


I get 45mpg
even with 4 adults in the car and driving up the Stevens Pass in Washington I got 45mpg

with regular diesel I get about 40mpg


Biodiesel for the win!

Why didn't they just ask Dr. Z ® ?

sarcastrow:
Waterfront...
Plant...
ok so I didn't spell check

Also Ecotopia.

dbaggins

ha haha ha pwn3d !


Not quite, they were considering corn and soy as thier input biomass there are other, much more oily if less tasty, crops that yield dramticly higher gallon per acre figures. Sugar cane for ethanol and Jatropha for biodiesel

sorry for my spelling gang, hard to concentrate with the Blue Angels rattling the building.

Powerboat 'Cable & Wireless': 24,382 nautical miles in 74 days, 20 hours, 58 minutes.

Maxi-catamaran 'Orange II': 27,047 nautical miles in 50 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes.

Pwned by a sailboat.

corn is a poor crop for biodiesel. It takes a lot more energy to grow corn for oil compared with other oilseed crops like soy or canola.
It is probably better to grow corn for ethanol once the process for converting cellulose to ethanol is commercialized.

Pwned by a sailboat heh. I was wondering - Ellen Macarthur went round nearly as fast as that in a monocoque did she not?

These folks who slag off green fuel supporters etc as hippies should try hanging off a 70 ft mast in the south seas for a few minutes. Losers.

zzottt: I use biodiesel every day in my New Beetle

What percentage do you use? I'm using b20 in my golf. Thinking about using b100.

2006-08-05 04:40:41 PM WaffenSS

Neimo, the newer Toyota Crawlolas (I kid I kid, my toyota Corolla has gone 128 and is a '91, has almost 200,000 miles on it) gets about 41mpg highway and costs about 13,000. Most people just don't want it though because they think their SUV is safer or their pickup is, or their minivan (despite them only having 2 kids...) Even with every safety feature and what not the Corolla is still under 20,000.

People are just stupid bastards who want something to show off in, even if they cant afford it.

If your not worried about safety but worried about picking up chicks and getting good gas mileage, getting a sports bike is the way to go. If I didn't drive on the 2 deadliest roads in California all the time I'd probably get one.

lost. consider distributing this post in UML.

2006-08-05 04:58:41 PM flamesfan

corn is a poor crop for biodiesel. It takes a lot more energy to grow corn for oil compared with other oilseed crops like soy or canola.
It is probably better to grow corn for ethanol once the process for converting cellulose to ethanol is commercialized.

or engineer the corn to spit out more oil.

I really am curios as to why the anti biofuel folks are so rabid about it not ever working. Are we never going to make advances in efficiency? Can we not use solar powered distillers? Do we have to use feed crops instead of fuel crops?

I think it's just that the idea of this Hippy fuel makes their dick limp.

\keep that dick stiff
\\ oil and war made America great
\\\ aint that rite Leroy

2006-08-05 04:58:41 PM flamesfan

corn is a poor crop for biodiesel. It takes a lot more energy to grow corn for oil compared with other oilseed crops like soy or canola.
It is probably better to grow corn for ethanol once the process for converting cellulose to ethanol is commercialized.

or engineer the corn to spit out more oil.

monocots taste like chicken.

He drove his family into the poorhouse for that? Nice guy.

When the kids start selling their butts to pay his bills, I
hope their clients are gentle.

If it turns out his design is picked up by a like-minded organisation (and it probably will be), it's a decent investment and the cash will return. He proved it could work- and that's pretty cool.

Granted, it does suck for the family in the short run.