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(That Jazz News Site)   Showing he is open to negotiation, Iran's president says, "The real cure for the conflict is the elimination of the Zionist regime, but there should be an immediate ceasefire first"   (english.aljazeera.net) divider line 359
    More: Dumbass  
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3557 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Aug 2006 at 12:26 PM (8 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-08-03 01:32:33 PM  
bigmatty87

I won't get into WWII reasoning, just pointing out of all the countries that have the bomb, only one have used it.

Your argument supports the assertion of a number on this thread again that Iranians\Palestinians are "subhuman" and do not respect life. They would gladly risk the annihilation of their entire society to eliminate Israel. You assume they are ALL so blind in their religion that they would ALL welcome death.

Definitely Iran is not my first choice of countries to get the bomb, but you don't see two countries that have it mix it up very often do you? Sure India and Pakistan once in awhile, but it usually imposes a kind of peace. Israel and the US can literally push Iran around - if Iran had the bomb, I really think some honest brokering would occur. I don't think Iran is as wingy as even the President of their country promotes them to be.
 
2006-08-03 01:32:51 PM  
And while we're at it, Spontaneous Defenstration, why is it a law for Jews to wear the Yarmulke/Kippa when it wasn't really a divinely-given rule... it was just something that a Rabbi named Huna (I think) started wearing to remind him that the presence of the divine was always above his head.

And bam, it's now a rule.

At least, that's how I get it.
 
2006-08-03 01:33:07 PM  
Why the dumbass tag, He is right. No Israel, would solve the problem.
 
2006-08-03 01:33:50 PM  
Spontaneous Defenstration:

No, we have the Oral Law to explain the Written Law. We do not derive Jewish Law from the Torah.

elchip: This isn't that hard to get.

I know, and that's irritating me.

PeopleFirst: I read about the Noahide Laws laws and I thought I was doing pretty good until I got to the idolitry part since I am a Christian. You seem to think that Christians will end up in purgatory (or hell). In Catholic theology purgatory is a painful stopping ground on the way to heaven/paradise. Is it the same?

It's considered Idolatry for jews, but for Gentiles, there are two schools of thought, whether it's Idolatry or not. I'm personally on the "It's not, side".

Again, I'm not G-d so I don't know for sure, but focus on being a good person and we'll all deal with the rest later.
 
2006-08-03 01:34:19 PM  
klymen: Why the dumbass tag, He is right. No Israel, would solve the problem.

Problem: Israel is now there, and without ethnic cleansing or genocide there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
 
2006-08-03 01:34:41 PM  
So, let me get this straight:

The fighting between Islamists and Israel can be ended, if only Israel will cease to exist;

The bombing of trains in Mumbai and Madrid will not be repeated if only Spain and India will be ceded back to the caliphate;

The Islamists will allow Vienna to survive unscathed if we let them take over this time (hey, fellow fascists, the 3rd time's the charm!);

They'll also leave those sons-of-apes-and-pigs Jews alone if they'll submit to the jizya and zakat and wear a yellow Star of David on their lapels;

Did I miss anything?

-- Dr.Dipwad
 
2006-08-03 01:36:23 PM  
HidelyHeaux

Learn to read, moran.
 
2006-08-03 01:36:46 PM  
What I want to know is where the idea that Israel is owed that particular region of real estate came from.

The original Israelites were nomadic tribes who moved into a region populated by the canaanites and promptly began fighting with them for control of the region until the romans came. The romans controlled the area for a 1000 years followed by the turks who held it for another 1000. Under turkish rule, the area was predomoninately christian and muslim.

Out of the blue, in late 1800's, some guy writes a treatise that jews should "reclaim" the area for themselves because it's "rightfully" theirs (zionism is born). By what right? Are they saying that this right exists because 4000 years ago some guy hears voices from God in his head and decides to write a scroll stating that the Israelites are "God's chosen people" and that God has given the promised land to the Israelites and that every else deserves to be smited? I find the whole premise extremely unlikely. First off, it would imply that God is a bigot and racist. Bigotry and racism are human failings; not divine ones. Secondly, there's the conveniency of the proclamation which goes something like "Hi, our God told us that all this land you've been living on belongs to us. Get out." Not only is it unjust, it's also very materialistic. So this implies that God (in addition to being a bigot and racist) is also unjust and materialistic as well. Very unlikey since once again these are human weaknesses, not divine ones. The upshot is that the religious texts where likely created by men with an agenda rather than by divine narration. As such, I find any claim to the region based on religious edict to be completely meaningless and without merit.
 
2006-08-03 01:38:27 PM  
2006-08-03 01:18:27 PM RanDomino

No one is calling for the elimination of Israel (except for a tiny and completely marginalized minority of crazies who will never amount to anything except fuel for Western media propaganda). There are, however, plenty of people calling for an end to Israeli expansionism (the modern definition of Zionism), which has lead to the suffering of the Palestinians and the destruction we see in Lebanon.

Israel's existence is not at risk, has not been at risk for decades, and will not be at risk again for a long, long time.


The annihilation of Israel (all of israel) is in the Hamas charter and has always been the stated goal of Iran's president nutjob. Saying that all of israel's enemies just want the return of the occupied territories is just plain ignorant and absured. After all the territories were captured from israel's arab neighbors after they engaged israel in multiple wars with the intent of genocide. History as well as the anti-israeli retoric that you choose to interpret so poorly proves your ignorance.
 
2006-08-03 01:38:28 PM  
Tatsuma: No, we have the Oral Law to explain the Written Law. We do not derive Jewish Law from the Torah.

But Jesus of Nazareth wisely pointed out (I'm well aware of your opinions on him, but you have commented in the past that he was a very well-read rabbi) that many Jews had gone astray by following the laws of man rather than the law of God.
Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
I mean, God very clearly said not to boil a calf in its mother's milk. And that's it! Am I wrong?
 
2006-08-03 01:38:52 PM  
So we give it back to the Caananites and then everybody will live in peace.

So, uh, are there any Caananites left?
 
2006-08-03 01:39:30 PM  
L.Darte

When was the last time arabs ruled the region?
 
2006-08-03 01:39:36 PM  
L.Darte: Out of the blue, in late 1800's, some guy writes a treatise that jews should "reclaim" the area for themselves because it's "rightfully" theirs (zionism is born).

Zionism, yearning for a return of Israel, has been something that started during the first Babylonian exile, when the Jews were first kicked out of the Land.

Every year, we say the same sentence "Next Year in Jerusalem". It's not a bunch of jews that woke up one day and said "Hey, let's go back there, y'know"

some guy hears voices from God in his head

"Some guy" would be 3 million people.

"God's chosen people

We are chosen to be a nation of priests, to lead the example in the world in matter of virtue, mercy, compassion and wisdom.

That's what we're "Chosen" for.
 
2006-08-03 01:39:37 PM  
So has new ally Chavez jumped on this bandwagon yet?
 
2006-08-03 01:40:32 PM  
elchip: But Jesus of Nazareth wisely pointed out (I'm well aware of your opinions on him, but you have commented in the past that he was a very well-read rabbi) that many Jews had gone astray by following the laws of man rather than the law of God.

that's the point.

Oral Law IS the Law of G-d!

It was given by G-d on Sinai, it's not the rabbis that made it up!
 
2006-08-03 01:40:35 PM  
Oh looky, Amadjihad has come up with a final solution.
 
2006-08-03 01:41:03 PM  
While we are at it, I want the Normans out of England. And the Saxons. farking nomads.
 
2006-08-03 01:41:25 PM  
Tatsuma: "Some guy" would be 3 million people.

How did they grow from ~70 to ~3,000,000 in the span of a few hundred years?
 
2006-08-03 01:42:51 PM  
Tatsuma: that's the point.

Oral Law IS the Law of G-d!

It was given by G-d on Sinai, it's not the rabbis that made it up!


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaugh! You need to distinguish between the parts of the Talmud that are written by Rabbis discussing applications of the law... and parts that were supposedly handed down by God. Because there are several parts of the Talmud, right? Some supposedly God-given law, some commentary? Which is which?
 
2006-08-03 01:43:00 PM  
2006-08-03 01:22:50 PM Tatsuma

Whoa there, I'm definitely not hardcore.

There is a set of rules to follow.
These people do not follow this set of rules.
Ergoo, these people cannot call themselve Jewish.

It's been that way for more than 3,000 years so far, and it's been working great. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it.


Ummmm Tatsuma....I like you, and i normally agree with your opinions on the middle east but i will have to disagree with you on this one. As far as canadian Jews go...you sir are hardcore. Not that its bad, just sayin.
 
2006-08-03 01:43:09 PM  
Tatsuma
Judaism, like Christianity, and Islam, is a tribal religion. You weren't chosen for anything.
 
2006-08-03 01:43:58 PM  
Tatsuma
We are chosen to be a nation of priests, to lead the example in the world in matter of virtue, mercy, compassion and wisdom.

You're doing a hell of a job.
 
2006-08-03 01:45:35 PM  
bin_smokin
The annihilation of Israel (all of israel) is in the Hamas charter...
Pfft. They might wish for it, but any sane person realizes it's impossible.

...and has always been the stated goal of Iran's president nutjob.
Now, when you say "stated", that makes it seem like you have a public statement he has made that says that.

Saying that all of israel's enemies just want the return of the occupied territories is just plain ignorant and absured.
I suggest you learn your macrohistory better. People do things for reasons, and occupation, destruction, and humiliation are very compelling ones. Genocide is not an end in and of itself.

After all the territories were captured from israel's arab neighbors after they engaged israel in multiple wars with the intent of genocide.
Good thing I stated that Israel hasn't been threatened in decades, meaning that Israel's existence may have in fact been threatened before that.
 
2006-08-03 01:46:18 PM  
A7r3ides

Chosen or not...we kick ass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_Nobel_Prize_winners
 
2006-08-03 01:46:45 PM  
2006-08-03 01:39:36 PM Tatsuma

We are chosen to be a nation of priests, to lead the example in the world in matter of virtue, mercy, compassion and wisdom.

That's what we're "Chosen" for.


heh, im not religious at all but that just sound freaking cool. I wanna be chosen for something exciting. Not just chosen to work and pay bills.

Sure beats being chosen to rule the world with an iron fist under the name of islam....or does it...

/guess it depends if your the ruler or not
 
2006-08-03 01:47:49 PM  
I'm Mexican. I thought we were the chosen ones.
 
2006-08-03 01:48:06 PM  
A7r3ides
Judaism, like Christianity, and Islam, is a tribal religion. You weren't chosen for anything.

So, have they all earned their current fate? Lebanon earned the bombing, etc... and Israel earned the bombing, etc... and Ahmidenijad earned the snappy tailor?
 
2006-08-03 01:49:08 PM  
There are several groups with legitimate claims to the land in Palestine; one can even form a rough chronology:

1.) The Cannanites.
2.) The Jews
3.) The Babylonians
4.) The Jews, again
5.) The Persians
6.) The Jews, again
7.) The Romans
8.) The Christians
9.) The Muslims
10.) The British
11.) The Jews

Suggestion?

Cull out the groups that no longer exist, and set up a division which represents the rights of all the groups with a historical claim on the region, who are interested in having a hand in its administration and free access to religious sites therein.

Fair enough?

So, basically, that means: Keep Israel, somehow form a Palestinian state to represent the Muslims, and, oh yeah, get some Christian (Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox) representation in there as well. (I'm assuming the Brits don't give a frog's fat fanny.)

Any takers?

-- Dr.Dipwad
 
2006-08-03 01:49:35 PM  
Where is the outrage to statements like this? But Israelis are really genocidal... wow just farking wow. Sudan Muslims are in the middle of wiping out the natives, Thailand Muslims are killing Buddhists, etc etc but the REAL PROBLEM IS JOOOS....

\You people really amaze me.... yes I said you people.
 
2006-08-03 01:49:35 PM  
elchip: How did they grow from ~70 to ~3,000,000 in the span of a few hundred years?

Haredi in Jerusalem have an average of 8.4 children per family. That's really not a miracle there

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaugh! You need to distinguish between the parts of the Talmud that are written by Rabbis discussing applications of the law... and parts that were supposedly handed down by God. Because there are several parts of the Talmud, right? Some supposedly God-given law, some commentary? Which is which?

What was written down by the rabbis is the commentary, basically. Here's what a page of the Talmud looks like:

www.talmud.de
 
2006-08-03 01:49:47 PM  
muck4doo
I'm Mexican. I thought we were the chosen ones.

Nope, you guys are the "lettuce picking" ones. I think you guys lost in the spanish to english tranlation wars.
 
2006-08-03 01:50:09 PM  
We do the work no one else is willing to do. We have been chosen to set an example.
 
2006-08-03 01:50:25 PM  
Mearen:
Learn to read, moran.

You had something else to say? I must've missed it.
 
2006-08-03 01:50:46 PM  
Tatsuma: What was written down by the rabbis is the commentary, basically. Here's what a page of the Talmud looks like:

That doesn't help. I don't read Hebrew. You need to be more clear.
 
2006-08-03 01:51:45 PM  
bin_smokin: heh, im not religious at all but that just sound freaking cool. I wanna be chosen for something exciting. Not just chosen to work and pay bills.

Yeah, it is cool, actually. The Principle is: We need to be acting like a nation of priests (but don't think catholic priests, we're allowed to have fun and live life's pleasures) and teach mankind mercy, compassion, etc... Hard job, but ultimately rewarding.
 
2006-08-03 01:52:14 PM  
muck4doo

The Guatemalans are undercutting you guys.
 
2006-08-03 01:53:01 PM  
Here's a single link:
Palestinian Media Watch (pops).

Cease Fire? Riiiiiight.
 
2006-08-03 01:53:07 PM  
drdipwad
Why not have a system that keeps the maximum number of people in the same place (assuming they've been there for more than just a few years, planted as a cheap land-grab; referring of course to the illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank)? Remove the illegal settlements, and the borders very closely correspond to nationality already. Problem solved.
 
2006-08-03 01:54:01 PM  
I gota repeat:
Where is the outrage to statements like this? But Israelis are really genocidal... wow just farking wow. Sudan Muslims are in the middle of wiping out the natives, Thailand Muslims are killing Buddhists, etc etc but the REAL PROBLEM IS JOOOS....

\You people really amaze me.... yes I said you people.
 
2006-08-03 01:54:48 PM  
muck4doo: You were chosen to eat pozole and drink tequila.

That sounds pretty nice, actually :)
 
2006-08-03 01:55:07 PM  
Oooops. Guess I was wrong. Some Korean guy just informed they are the Choson ones.
 
2006-08-03 01:55:41 PM  
ladbag_06 \You people really amaze me.... yes I said you people.

Albinos? The Maori? Which people are supposed to be outraged again?
 
2006-08-03 01:55:57 PM  
What was the difference between chosen people and master race again?
 
2006-08-03 01:55:57 PM  
2006-08-03 01:54:48 PM wingnutx

I can live with that. :)
 
2006-08-03 01:56:38 PM  
I_C_Weener

The laughs are why they don't throw me out permanently.

You do seem to take the opposite side of everything and insult just about everyone. Dissent IS the definition of democratic!
 
2006-08-03 01:56:47 PM  
Those Muslims cutting the heads off of schoolteachers in Thailand are really Mossad agents. Same guys who killed a couple of hundred students in Beslan, Russia.

I think I read that in the Tehran Times. Must be true.
 
2006-08-03 01:57:37 PM  
I_C_Weener

The ones that are ok with that Iranian douche bag calling for extermination
 
2006-08-03 01:57:46 PM  
elchip: That doesn't help. I don't read Hebrew. You need to be more clear.

There are two parts in the Talmud. The Mishnah and the Gemarra. The Mishnah = Laws and opinions about these laws. The Mishnah was written many years before the Gemarra. The Gemarra is the synthesis of all the analysis, debates and discussions on the Mishnah by all the great rabbis.

There are six orders of the Mishnah, dividing themselves in different tractates, which divide themselves sin singular units we call mishnayot. There are Gemera for most tractates.
 
2006-08-03 01:57:54 PM  
ladbag_06
Most definitely.

I_C_Weener
Absolutely not. When do you think I even suggested that?
 
2006-08-03 01:58:03 PM  
Damn, I made myself hungry with that post about pozole.
 
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