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(al Jazeera)   Interesting discussion by Wafa Sultan on the "clash of civilizations" between the middle east and the west   ( divider line
    More: Obvious  
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9575 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2006 at 12:31 AM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

215 Comments     (+0 »)

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2006-07-29 04:08:26 PM  
She's got a big nose!
2006-07-29 04:09:13 PM  
she's amazing.
2006-07-29 04:11:58 PM  
Very interesting. Sucks that you're a farking moron, submitter.

/It's on Al Jazeera. Take that, (most) farkers.
//Submitter's trolly headline will stop this from getting greenlit, what a shame.
///Or maybe it'll be the reason it gets greenlit.
////Since I know not many will actually watch the thing before commenting, noone's trying to burn her.
//Either way, voted for this.
2006-07-29 04:13:30 PM  
She makes a lot of good points. This is pretty old though.
2006-07-29 04:22:41 PM  
She's damn lucky she's in L.A. -- - if she were in Kabul, she'd probably be buried hip-deep in a soccer field, with a dump truck full of boulders at the ready.

Would have been interesting to hear from that other guy, who seemed ready to go get an axe.
2006-07-29 04:23:26 PM  

Damn, it's about time someone said that over there....Now if we can just get people to start agreeing with her...
2006-07-29 04:40:41 PM  

grrk, lllp, ... *snort* ....

Seriously, though, good points.
2006-07-29 04:50:23 PM  
Amen ( or it's Arabic equivIlent)
2006-07-29 04:53:31 PM  
Would have been interesting to hear from that other guy, who seemed ready to go get an axe.

That's probably exactly it. I don't think he was interested in anything she had to say towards the end. He was just looking down at the desk. Which is sad, because that was outstanding.
2006-07-29 05:07:06 PM  

Amen ( or it's Arabic equivIlent)

Tongue uvulations...
2006-07-29 05:12:02 PM  

In the full debate (not shown in the video), the guy (Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli) asks her if she is a heretic. He then accuses her of being a heretic and says "there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran..."
2006-07-29 05:25:50 PM  
She should know better than to argue with someone who has a PhD in invisible sky wizard.
2006-07-29 05:26:20 PM  
ten_of_spades, that IS in the video. And that doesn't count as "burning witches," that's what Rush Limbaugh does everytime someone with brain cells calls. In fact, she wasn't even cut off, unlike those who point out Rush's retard-icity; the guy was just being a pussy.
2006-07-29 07:15:12 PM  
I'm thinking submitter was trying to be funny by pointing out the ridiculous.

/not submitter
2006-07-29 10:21:35 PM  
She makes a whole lot of good points.
2006-07-30 12:37:22 AM  
I can sum up the clash of civilizations in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."
2006-07-30 12:41:19 AM  
She makes many, many good points. unfortunately she presents it as the "Self-hating Jew" of Islam; which is OK, you don't need to be Muslim to be Arab. However, in my mind her good points are lost to her anti-Muslim ranting. The only can I can say and totally agree with is that Muslims are the ones "who have gone astray". I'm a Muslim myself and I don't need to renounce and denounce my faith to say that.
2006-07-30 12:41:26 AM  
Let the flames begin!
2006-07-30 12:43:11 AM  
I like the part where Dr. Al-Khouli was shuffing through his papers, almost as if he couldn't find a response to her. Scary when people make sense, huh Doc.

/first ever post on Fark
//celebratory slashies
2006-07-30 12:46:35 AM  
Was the Fark headline changed, as every is ripping on submiter for what?
2006-07-30 12:48:22 AM  

That...makes sense. Thank you for contributing.
2006-07-30 12:48:23 AM  
DarthBrooks: She's damn lucky she's in L.A. -- - if she were in Kabul, she'd probably be buried hip-deep in a soccer field, with a dump truck full of boulders at the ready.

Would have been interesting to hear from that other guy, who seemed ready to go get an axe.

Yeah, that's what I got out of this. I was basically reading DUH subtitles and wondering how long this woman will be alive. Plus I would have liked to see what the freak calling her a heretic had to say.

I agree with her. I'm a liberal. Maybe the conservatives' heads will asplode?
2006-07-30 12:49:33 AM  
Wow. Aside from her voice having a lot of reverb, that was a masterful performance. I have never heard anyone explaion it better.
2006-07-30 12:50:29 AM  
Sexy Sadie: Let the flames begin!

I think it is too late at night for that. Or are the West Coast Farkers just logging on?
2006-07-30 12:50:33 AM  
Truth slaps middle east across the face, middle east looks down at desk and at 11.
2006-07-30 12:51:15 AM  
Man, props to al-Jazeera. She kicks some ass.
2006-07-30 12:52:02 AM  
She'll be missing her head soon for saying shiat like that... :(
2006-07-30 12:52:25 AM  
...a PhD in invisible sky wizard...

whooo! good stuff..
2006-07-30 12:52:57 AM  
This is more interesting:

The Clash of Ignorance
2006-07-30 12:55:09 AM  

She's a less-attractive, Arabic speaking version of Daniel Pipes.
2006-07-30 12:56:00 AM  
Note to self - take out life insurance policy on Wafi Sutan....

Kudos to her - bashing Islam from Los Angeles
2006-07-30 12:58:50 AM  

Must people always make it a case of liberals and conservatives? Its not black and white, or are those colors the only ones your simple mind can understand?
2006-07-30 12:59:39 AM  
serutan: "My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

Technically, both invisible friends are supposed to be the same invisible friend.
2006-07-30 12:59:53 AM  
In case you don't know, "clash of civilizations" was popularized by an assfarker named Samuel P. Huntington.

It started out as an article entitled "The Clash of Civilizations?" published in the 1993 Foreign Affairs.

Then he turned that idea into a book called The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order.

Suffice it to say, I hold a very low opinion of Sammy Boy. He got flamed pretty hard in the next edition of Foreign Affairs.

You can read about his basic ideas here

To be honest, all the bullshiat he heaps onto the pile is prepwork for his 2004 book which essentially says "ZOMG Teh Mexicans!!111eleven" and "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant is teh Best!".

His fundamental fear is that Latinos will not assimilate into American culture and you can trace this fear through his writings all the way back to his 1993 essay.

/dissected his writing for a class.
//My hardcore Republican & Catholic partner on the paper agreed with my assesment, even though we disagree on lots of other stuff.
///In case you didn't guess, Huntington is a Harvard educated, Connecticut WASP
2006-07-30 01:00:26 AM  
She says that Jews don't blow themselves up in restaurants....but they drop missiles on they fight with what they have available to them. Palestinians fight with guns as well as with suicide attacks.
2006-07-30 01:01:23 AM  
Submitter here:

Liche, actually the headline was a play on any progressive thought usually being branded with the typical extremist religious reaction of any given culture/time period.

Hence, why I used the expression of "Witch/Burn" which (imo) actually references more christian/Catholic "Heretic" style thinking than say...Muslim. actually part of the point she was making (Freedom of choice without religious branding usually leads to greater liberties, etc).....which led me to believe the original headline was fitting.

Guess it stepped on some toes though! Regardless, broke my cherry with this headline/link...glad people will get to see it with/without my headline.
2006-07-30 01:01:33 AM  
It's good that Wafa is progressive enough to elect a female sultan.
2006-07-30 01:03:01 AM  
"Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me"

Man love that quote. She's a total BAMF
2006-07-30 01:06:56 AM  
She's damn lucky she's in L.A. -- - if she were in Kabul, she'd probably be buried hip-deep in a soccer field, with a dump truck full of boulders at the ready.

Not in Kabul nowadays, though possibly in Qandahar.

Definitely in Riyadh, though.
2006-07-30 01:08:41 AM  
"We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant"

Good point, Sultan of Wafa.
2006-07-30 01:12:15 AM  
OH NOES!!! Ayn Rand has risen from the dead and she's an Arab!
2006-07-30 01:12:55 AM  
Her criticisms of Muslims were right on, but I got confused in the middle of her discussion. When she brought up Jews not blowing Germans up in response to the Holocaust and Buddhists not destroying Mosques, was that to suggest that Muslims ARE being persecuted or dealt with unjustly in the world bu the problem is that they aren't responding properly?

For me, she lost all credibility when she completely missed the concept of "People of the Book." The term in the Quran is used respectfully to address Jews and Christians who were also given divine revelations in the form of books, hence the name People of the Book.

And don't all religions hold that God is angry (or at least not super ecstatic) at those who don't follow the way of said religion?
2006-07-30 01:13:22 AM  
I agree with 90% of what she says, but at other times in history she could just as well have been addressing the zealots of the Christian world, who have at various times punished free thinking with imprisonment and execution, wanton destruction of "pagan" churches, statues, writings, etc., and wiped out entire cultures by forbidding the practice of their religions and other traditions, even the speaking of local languages. If you think Muslims have a monopoly on treating women like sub-humans, read the Bible.

During the Middle Ages western civilization was no more advanced technologically than eastern. The West of today owes its economic and scientific superiority to the fact that Europeans discovered and conquered the Americas first. The Western industrialized world was built primarily with the vast resources of both those continents. If the Muslim world instead had occupied the Americas, they could very well have become the advanced civilization facing the barbaric, backward Christians.
2006-07-30 01:14:16 AM  
Conservative here. I loved the first few minutes of it, her opening speech (before the first edit/comment from the host) was amazing. Her biggest mistake was to really scold the entire Islamic/Arab world, calling them the only terrorists.

Really, as we have discussed time and time again on Fark, every major religion has it's terrorists. But I believe that it is not necessarily religion that causes people to turn to terror, so much as an ideology of extreme intolerance. For example, your average member of ELF that blows up a meat packing plant is probably every bit as crazy as your average Eric Rudolph-type blowing up an abortion clinic. It is not their religion, or lack thereof for that matter, but their extremist belifs: "Things must change RADICALLY, RIGHT NOW, and I don't care who has to die for it to happen!"

So what I'm saying is that every group has it's radicals. The thing that is so troubling about the modern Arab World is the sheer volume of these radicals. Less than a fraction of a percent of Christians, Jews, and (to use the same secular group again) environmentalists believe in blowing up the people they disagree with. Not exactly the case in the Middle East right now.
2006-07-30 01:15:22 AM  
There is a monument in Israel to Baruch Goldstein, who walked into a Mosque where people were praying and opened up with a machine gun killing dozens of innocent muslims. He is considered a hero by many Israelis.
2006-07-30 01:15:26 AM  
saw it long time ago but she is a scumbag. she is an attention whore with soem valid points but mostly bullshiat
2006-07-30 01:16:18 AM  

She says that Jews don't blow themselves up in restaurants....but they drop missiles on ambulances

theres a difference between nutjob individuals who believe that all violent parts of the quran should be acted upon just because its in the koran, and an ISRAELI GOVERNMENT who is sick and tired of aforementioned nutjobs sendings rockets and suicide bombers into their citied.
2006-07-30 01:19:38 AM  
Some Guy: "I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?"

Her: "Yes, that it what I mean."

Me: That's the kind of logic that'll get you no where, no matter how many good points you make.
2006-07-30 01:20:52 AM  

saw it long time ago but she is a scumbag.

By far, the most convincing argument I've ever heard on Fark.
2006-07-30 01:23:46 AM  
Fireproof -- good points and well put.
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