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(Boston Globe)   Running short on targets, Israeli pilots hone skills on ambulances. With impressive accuracy   (boston.com) divider line 511
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15977 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2006 at 12:23 PM (7 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-07-25 01:35:58 PM
Israel needs a serious KHITBASH

/wouldn't be doing this shiat if the U.S. weren't backing you
 
2006-07-25 01:36:08 PM
BlindMan: Being as they've succesfully survived a number of wars with multiple nations bent on their destruction, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they know a fair bit more about it than you.

And I'm going to gout out on a limb and assume that Yonatan Shapira, the Former Captain in the Israeli Air Force Reserves, and 26 other IDF pilots with combat experience know a hell of a lot more about it than you and the Israeli politicians do.
 
2006-07-25 01:36:24 PM
There is no excuse for targeting ambulances. None. If you target an ambulance it's a war crime.

Simple. Duh (with knobs on).
 
2006-07-25 01:36:33 PM
i think that whole region needs to take next spring break in TJ to cool out.

watch a donky show or something.

i dunno.
 
2006-07-25 01:37:26 PM
mount.diablo

some of the holes in the bottom right (the larger ones) could very well have been from a 7.62 machine gun. we used to have competitions at the 204B range to see who could get the tightest shot group in a 7-9 round burst. believe me when i say you can get that group very very small. and you are right, i dont see any exit damage (all incoming fire). that large hole in the center looks very clean cut on one side, however i cant explain that.

Vet_Curm

yeah i think we are missing some info here.

That's how bad info gets passed around....
 
2006-07-25 01:37:49 PM
That's not a direct hit (the ambulance roof picture).

That's schrapnel from a building hit nearby, or a ground hit (in which case you are looking at exit holes on the top).

The hole in the center, is where a plastic skylight used to be the likes of which US folks probably have seen on public buses.

It's a plastic vent people.

Overpresure from the shock, plus small fragments could have easily blown that out like that.

Look at the front edge (closest to the camera) it looks like a straight edge deformed as the plastic part was removed in the force of the blast.

Any ordinance that is dropped from a plane or fired from a helo into that vehicle would have shredded that vehicle into large chunks, not left it more or less intact.

So if it was targeted, they friggin missed.

More likely, it was in the area and they the driver realize there were more than one waves of attacks coming. (Organized armies do that, dirka dirka towelheads shoot and run, guys with air forces send several waves to really flatten something. So they probably expeced no IDF attacks 2 minutes after the first and drove their hapless ass in there.)

Nothing to see here but propaganda and spin folks.
 
2006-07-25 01:38:04 PM
not bad aiming, guess all that pratice in the Gaza and West bank really paid off....now if only those little IDF rascals can stop shootng themselves in the foot
 
2006-07-25 01:38:09 PM
Soldiers wear a uniform of some established government which these Hezbollah terrorist do not. Unless they are posing for the AP camera's. Or for a pre-homocide attack photo-session. As such, the terrorist are not covered by the Geneva Convention rules, other than the part about being armed combatants without uniforms, and as such, are considered spies or saboteurs and can be shot on sight. Even when riding in an ambulance.
 
2006-07-25 01:39:11 PM
Sir Charles:
In this case Hizballah is regularly using ambulances to move arms, so the IDF is targeting ambulances.

Duh.


Then the blood is on their hands, as they know that the odds are that ambulance contains civilians. Just because they MIGHT contain terrorists is not justification. But I guess as long as they don't whine about the next suicide bombing in Israel, they can do what they want.

/it's the same thing
//splitting hairs make baby jebus cry
 
2006-07-25 01:40:42 PM
Well, maybe Israel should do what the Hezbollah's been doing and just launch rocket after rocket indiscriminately. I don't see any farkers complaining about that.
 
2006-07-25 01:40:55 PM
Kafka

why go to war if you dont want to win? you dont win by being nice, you win by doing whatever is necessary to win. leave the moral implications to academia, let the military do their job. their job is to kill, and if you cant stomach that, you shouldnt have a military.
 
2006-07-25 01:41:00 PM
SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Then the blood is on their hands, as they know that the odds are that ambulance contains civilians. Just because they MIGHT contain terrorists is not justification. But I guess as long as they don't whine about the next suicide bombing in Israel, they can do what they want.

... and I'd say the blood is on Hizballah's hands, for I'm sure they would have a pretty good idea that Israel would start targeting ambulances if Hizballah used them for purposes of warfare ...

and we'd probably both be right.
 
2006-07-25 01:41:25 PM
BlindMan

Are you saying some people out there in the world don't like jews? I'm utterly shocked. Europe has such a wonderful record of enlightened attitudes historically.

Are you equating being against Israel with being an anti-semite?

We need a new Godwin-style law that says that, in an Israel vs. (Anyone) thread, the first person to equate being against Israel (a government) with hating jews (a people) loses the argument.
 
2006-07-25 01:41:25 PM
pontechango

BlindMan: Being as they've succesfully survived a number of wars with multiple nations bent on their destruction, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume they know a fair bit more about it than you.

you:
And I'm going to gout out on a limb and assume that Yonatan Shapira, the Former Captain in the Israeli Air Force Reserves, and 26 other IDF pilots with combat experience know a hell of a lot more about it than you and the Israeli politicians do.


Twenty six people in some political action group? In a nation where basically everyone performs some military service or other, and the majority of prime ministers and knesset members have pretty distinguished service records?

Are we really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this Israeli swift boat veterans bullshiat? The entire stand up comedy and sitcom industry would fall apart without jewish self hated, I'm sorry if this meagre example of it fails to sway me.
 
2006-07-25 01:41:44 PM
Stop hiding behind civilians and they won't get killed!

/first troll attempt? :D
 
2006-07-25 01:42:14 PM
last i looked, i don't see the israeli military operating out of red cross ambulances so that useful idiots like submitter can be duped by pure evil, yet pure cowards who strap bombs to their children or use their wives as human shields. pure scum.
 
2006-07-25 01:42:28 PM
jafiwam

thats what I was suspecting, propaganda
 
2006-07-25 01:42:40 PM
By the way...

Does anyone actually have a link to where Hezbollah has used ambulances in their operations? I found a link involving Hamas, but not Hezbollah.
 
2006-07-25 01:42:47 PM
sorry, bad html

BlindMan

Are you saying some people out there in the world don't like jews? I'm utterly shocked. Europe has such a wonderful record of enlightened attitudes historically.


Are you equating being against Israel with being an anti-semite?

We need a new Godwin-style law that says that, in an Israel vs. (Anyone) thread, the first person to equate being against Israel (a government) with hating jews (a people) loses the argument.
 
2006-07-25 01:42:55 PM
jafiwam:
That's not a direct hit (the ambulance roof picture).

That's schrapnel from a building hit nearby, or a ground hit (in which case you are looking at exit holes on the top).


That's not a direct hit, swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

/streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch
 
2006-07-25 01:43:23 PM
2006-07-25 01:32:42 PM Kafka


2006-07-25 01:15:24 PM infantry [TotalFark]
"i dont believe in shooting children, however if it is necessary then i would do it. how do you know this particular ambulance was not carrying weapons? it is still ok to target it if ambulance missile launchings are prevalent."

Ah, so if the children carrying weapons for the hezbollah are prevalent, it's okay to bomb them too?

If you RTFA (and the many others about the same incident) you'll see that it's pretty clear that this wasn't one of the hezbollah "weapons cash" ambulances. Regardless, it's good that the IDF (officially atleast) dont subscribe to your sick way of wanting to wage war, as they clearly stated (numerous times) that they dont target civilians on purpose, much less ambulances (regardless of wether or not they have been used to carry weapons in the past).


Kafka, at what point do the good and harmless folks at Hezbollah garner any responsibility for innocently hiding weapons in ambulances, or firing from amongst a crowd of innocents or in general using tactics that will cause innocent young fair skinned and virginal children to die?

Perhaps if the terrorist didn't hide in a crowd of innocents then the innocents wouldn't die as often.

BTW, can you define cowardly?


/how can anyone support anyone who holds a baby up to shield themselves from harm?
//Kafka I know your response will be to either attack me, ask for photo proof of a Hezbollah terrorist holding a baby or some other evasive thing.
///How about you just realize and admit the tactic is causing the damage, not the IDF purposefully killing babies.
 
2006-07-25 01:43:35 PM
Smarshmallow

We need a new Godwin-style law that says that, in an Israel vs. (Anyone) thread, the first person to equate being against Israel (a government) with hating jews (a people) loses the argument.

Bravo!!!
 
2006-07-25 01:43:36 PM
What's the over/under for when a mushroom cloud will pop up?
 
2006-07-25 01:43:49 PM
Smarshmallow

BlindMan

Are you saying some people out there in the world don't like jews? I'm utterly shocked. Europe has such a wonderful record of enlightened attitudes historically.

Are you equating being against Israel with being an anti-semite?

We need a new Godwin-style law that says that, in an Israel vs. (Anyone) thread, the first person to equate being against Israel (a government) with hating jews (a people) loses the argument.


How about this, you tell me a country where a significant jewish population lived for a long period of time that hasn't ever systematically persecuted and/or murdered them and I'll stop associating the fate of Israel with the fate of the jewish people.
 
2006-07-25 01:44:54 PM
jafiwam,
"(in which case you are looking at exit holes on the top)"
Not a chance on that one. The holes are shredded the wrong direction. All incoming.

I noticed some deformation here too. Towards the center of the vehicle, it looks as though the van was hit by something with enough force to puch the roof inward. In the front, the roof is pushed outward. This might have been caused by an explosion, but again the holes go the wrong direction.

It's prolly a fake, IMO.
 
2006-07-25 01:45:12 PM
Blindman

Please get offa that tired ol' horse!
 
2006-07-25 01:45:21 PM
Israel sucks. Lebanon sucks. Everyone in the middle east needs to get over it and move on. End of discussion. There are no "good guys" in this war. Well, except the red cross. Those guys are heros, and should be looked up to.
 
2006-07-25 01:45:50 PM
As such, the terrorist are not covered by the Geneva Convention rules

SCOTUS disagrees.
 
2006-07-25 01:45:52 PM
SacriliciousBeerSwiller

no, i think he is right. the hole in the center is to clean and to squarish (for lack of a better word). the lack of exit holes from the van indicates to me that nothing exploded on the inside. the smaller holes indicate to me 7.62mm or whatever (shrapnel) entering the van. have you ever seen a real explosion in your life? if i threw a frag into a van you would have exit holes
 
2006-07-25 01:46:02 PM
Cubicle Jockey: I sure hope for the IDFs sake that Hezbollah doesn't borrow one of their uniforms then.

Hamas does that shiat all the time.

http://info.jpost.com/C002/Supplements/CasualtiesOfWar/2003_06_08.html

Sgt.-Maj. Boaz Emet, 23, of Beit She'an and reservists Sgt.-Maj. Assaf Abergil, 23, Sgt.-Maj. Udi Eilat, 37, both of Eilat, and Sgt.-Maj. Chen Angel, 31, of Ramat Gan, were killed and four reservists wounded when three terrorists wearing IDF uniforms and armed with Kalashnikov rifles and grenades infiltrated their post next to the Erez industrial zone in the northern Gaza Strip early Sunday morning"
 
2006-07-25 01:46:15 PM
2006-07-25 01:40:55 PM infantry [TotalFark]
"why go to war if you dont want to win? you dont win by being nice, you win by doing whatever is necessary to win. leave the moral implications to academia, let the military do their job. their job is to kill, and if you cant stomach that, you shouldnt have a military."

You're still talking about the ambulances, good. As I said then, they should be roundin' up the children and start shooting them. As I also said, it's good that the IDF doesn't subscribe to your sick view on how war should be waged. I know who does though, Osama does, funny how that works out, eh?
 
2006-07-25 01:46:24 PM
Clever Neologism

Absolutely. We were totally right to commit genocide and kill 90% of the the North American native population.

Well it wasnt really genocide since we left a 10th of them alive, now was it?

/Dont mean to make light of a tragedy
//If we had left more I might not have to drive as far to hit up a casino
 
2006-07-25 01:46:30 PM
BlindMan: Twenty six people in some political action group?

Those aren't random people, BlindMan (your moniker suits you) those are high ranking air force pilots who have served in combat.


Are we really scraping the bottom of the barrel with this Israeli swift boat veterans bullshiat?

You're the one in this thread who is defending a blatant war crime and act of terrorism by the Israelis. You better stop and think about what your values in this conflict really are. I'm not the one advocating genocide.
 
2006-07-25 01:46:53 PM
Manfred Richthofen:
Well, maybe Israel should do what the Hezbollah's been doing and just launch rocket after rocket indiscriminately. I don't see any farkers complaining about that.


Who's debating it? No one is dumb enough to defend Hizbollah's actions. People ARE dumb enough to defend Israel's actions.
 
2006-07-25 01:46:56 PM
what, no hot babes in this thread? You guys are slacking.
 
2006-07-25 01:47:00 PM
Cubicle Jockey

QOTT


Quote of the thread

BlindMan
That's good thinking because the arab world has been all like 'WOOT ISRAEL!' up to now, but now there's a distinct possibility that muslims might start not liking them.

I'm sure they're terribly concerned about annoying their otherwise staunch allies.


Do you have anything of substance to add, or just futile attempts at belittleing sarcasm?

For fark's sake man, THIS DOESN'T WORK. EVER. You can't respond to terrorist violence with indiscriminate violence against civilians at large. Your proving the terrorist's point in doing so. It hasn't worked in the past 60-odd years with Israel, it didn't work in Vietnam, the American Revolution, or anywhere else where complete or near-genocide wasn't the outcome.
 
2006-07-25 01:47:10 PM
Smarshmallow
We need a new Godwin-style law that says that, in an Israel vs. (Anyone) thread, the first person to equate being against Israel (a government) with hating jews (a people) loses the argument.


You know most Muslim, Middle Eastern countries (Dubai, Saudi, Kuwait I'm looking at you) won't even allow you in the country if you've BEEN to Israel (if you have a stamp on your passport).

I think this is lost on many Americans. We're an egalitarian people and it simply doesn't occur to us that there are people who actually want to see the Jews pushed into the sea.
 
2006-07-25 01:47:26 PM
FLYNAVY:Am I the only one in here that has heard that ambulances, driven by hadji, are transporting weapons & firing sam14's @ Israeli planes? U just can't trust hadji these days. The hezbots own the ambulances in southern Lebanon. This is old news. But, gotta say, nice shot to the Israeli aviator.

A Israeli Arab I know that moved from Israel to Houston worked in the west bank as a Nurse on an ambulance. He left Israil because the Red Cresent ambulances sometimes brought gunmen into firefights. His ambulance had been shot at more than once and he said "fark this!" and moved to america to take some nursing classes and be a EMT/Nurse in the US.
 
2006-07-25 01:47:39 PM
mount.diablo

i love credibility issues with the media today, especially the things coming from the middle east.

/good discussion with you and the others!
 
2006-07-25 01:47:43 PM
Eye roll...the identical propaganda is used over and over and people still buy into it. They'll be hitting rooms full of baby incubators soon. There's also the old trick of painting your military vehicle like an ambulance, and then crying foul when they're not fooled and take it out anyway.
 
2006-07-25 01:48:18 PM
i have seen quite a few blown up cars, buildings, a Bradley suffering from Hellfire missile damage, disintegrated concrete barriers from bomb blast, mortar fragments, mortar explosions, rpg explosions etc and there just isnt quite something right with the pic to me. i got it in ms paint right now trying to magnify certain areas

One thing is that all holes are inbound. If the main hole was a bomb, the rest would be shrapnal exploding outward. Even if it was a non-exploding bomb, shrapnal would fly in the opposite direction of impact.

The only thing that I can think of that would make that sort of pattern is an air-burst of some sort. But the center hole is too big for that, given that the whole thing isn't burned to a crisp. Some sort of directional artillery, perhaps, with a non-explosive shell.

We let Israel develop laser-guided artillery for us, and this looks like it could be something like that. But it's either a very odd combination of air bursting dummy shell, or a complete fake.
 
2006-07-25 01:48:36 PM
Blindman,

"ow about this, you tell me a country where a significant jewish population lived for a long period of time that hasn't ever systematically persecuted and/or murdered them and I'll stop associating the fate of Israel with the fate of the jewish people."

Depending on your definition of a long time: U.S.A.
 
2006-07-25 01:48:58 PM
tattooedtolley
what, no hot babes in this thread? You guys are slacking.

The Israelis are farked, the arabs are farked, but the kittens are safe.
 
2006-07-25 01:49:08 PM
Kafka

hey man you make absolutely no sense
 
2006-07-25 01:49:23 PM
infantry:
What would make a hole like that...I'm figuring a short blast burst from the 50mm canon, or & probably more like it, an acelytene torch, cutting a hole by hand while parked at the motor pool & then a 5 # maul hammer with a #8 piece of rebar. The burned edges always give em away. I assume they are intelligent enuf to "manufacture" evidence, hadji always was a big fan of CSI. I have seen cases where they have blown up buildings with civilians sleeping inside to collect cash settlements from the US which backfired when Chinese detenators were found. Starting to get pretty jaded here with humanity in general & stupid people. Yep, turning into the "white devil" & that's not something to be proud of.
 
2006-07-25 01:49:37 PM
For a moment there, I thought the Israelies were fighting soulless sub-human corpses I had no connection to. Then I read...

Shaalan, 28, sells spare parts at his father's shop. Another paramedic in the ambulance hit Sunday night, Nader Judeh, runs a record store; he's a Metallica fan.

Now I know it's true.
 
2006-07-25 01:49:55 PM
2006-07-25 01:43:23 PM FarkLark
"Kafka, at what point do the good and harmless folks at Hezbollah garner any responsibility for innocently hiding weapons in ambulances, or firing from amongst a crowd of innocents or in general using tactics that will cause innocent young fair skinned and virginal children to die?"

They -are- responsible (although not solely), as I've been saying all along.. It's disgusting, it's amoral and should never happen.. What's so hard about that?


/oh and you dont need to provide photographic evidence of hezb using civilians as human shields, I know it happens. I also know that the IDF has killed 300+ civilians so far, -many- of them children. Both disgust me.
 
2006-07-25 01:49:56 PM
BlindMan
How about this, you tell me a country where a significant jewish population lived for a long period of time that hasn't ever systematically persecuted and/or murdered them and I'll stop associating the fate of Israel with the fate of the jewish people.

I won't dignify your demand by pointing out that the US is such a place, because your demand is asinine.

Your claim might have some merit if Israel had led a relatively peaceful and quiet existence for any period of it's history, and thus hadn't given anyone any reason to take a stance against the country, but it hasn't.


Furthermore, your suggestion puts Israel above any scrutiny, because, as you say, unless you're a jew-hater, you must automatically agree with anything that Israel does. It's a self-defeating statement.
 
2006-07-25 01:50:08 PM
BlindMan

How about this, you tell me a country where a significant jewish population lived for a long period of time that hasn't ever systematically persecuted and/or murdered them and I'll stop associating the fate of Israel with the fate of the jewish people.


Turkey. The Ottomans welcomed the Sefardic Jews with open arms when they were being forcibly evicted from Spain and Portugal during the Reconquista. Later, Attaturk welcomed the Jews of Europe that were fleeing from Nazi persecution.
 
2006-07-25 01:50:14 PM
cache.boston.com

You do have to admit that was a rather good shot.
 
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