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(CNN)   Liberals blame Ah-nuld for the looming blackouts in California, not the liberal environmental zealots who have not allowed a single power station to be built in 30 years in CA   (cnn.com) divider line 568
    More: Asinine  
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7978 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Jul 2006 at 12:55 PM (9 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2006-07-25 04:50:05 PM  
If finger pointing generated electricity, California would export enough power for all of North America.

Submitter's absolutist statement is technically wrong, but not by much. Only a few percent actually. California's generation capacity has increased by a few percent in recent decades, while population has exploded. It's hard to deny this is the root of the problem.

So plan ahead, because California's population isn't getting any smaller. It's one of the fastest growing pops of any state actually. Yes, we will see the exact same headlines next year. And yes it will be humorous, in a sad way, to see the exact same partisan finger pointing then too.
 
2006-07-25 04:51:05 PM  
>> Arooo?

Yeah did that 72% electricity rate increase kick in yet or did they delay it.
 
2006-07-25 04:53:36 PM  
Actually, blame your bank if you're smart. Rising interest rates, coupled with the "risky" label attributed to merchant power generation as a whole, has made capacity expansion more expensive.

Since businesses have to assume the recovery of sunk costs in order to make effective decisions about which assets are worth financing, the market needs to pay the cost of generation PLUS THE COST OF NEW CONSTRUCTION in order to incent companies to create a larger generation fleet.

Oh wait, this is fark. Let me simplify: you guys on the West Coast will be grabbing your ankles, but when the buttsecks comes, it will be the banks (not the Enron's) getting some lovin off of you.
 
2006-07-25 04:55:57 PM  
Man when i was down there in march the masses were gettin ugly.

Went to a few flea markets and garage sales and people were grumbling all over the place. One guy that had a good garage sale kept sayin "I sold the house and I'm gettin outta here"
 
2006-07-25 04:56:52 PM  
twilson2: Yeah did that 72% electricity rate increase kick in yet or did they delay it.

It's in, but that's not because of deregulation. That's because Maryland, like California, thinks "deregulation" should involve more regulation than the "regulated" monopoly did.
 
2006-07-25 04:57:06 PM  
Nice completely false headline submittroll. But hey, people who hate liberals have never let those pesky facts get in the way.
 
2006-07-25 04:59:08 PM  
>> Since businesses have to assume the recovery of sunk costs in order to make effective decisions about which assets are worth financing, the market needs to pay the cost of generation PLUS THE COST OF NEW CONSTRUCTION in order to incent companies to create a larger generation fleet.

And we all know that only businesses have the magical ability to generate electricity.
 
2006-07-25 04:59:24 PM  
Why is this surprising? Didn't the right wingnuts blame Mr. Davis for problems that were engineered by the likes of Enron and other energy traders?

What goes around comes around.
 
2006-07-25 05:00:07 PM  
If anything,stirring up Fark's Liberal hornet's nest deserves a pat on the back submitter


Damn,look at them get fired up.At least Conservatives know how to take a licking even if the source is total BS.
 
2006-07-25 05:00:14 PM  
2006-07-25 02:08:57 PM nashBridges


Do you actually have something to say ?
Ha Ha guy is old- move one bra.
Better yet- come up with something intelligent as a retort.
Sheesh.

/paypal sucks dammit- I *am * always TF.
 
2006-07-25 05:00:14 PM  
>> It's in, but that's not because of deregulation.

Oh yeah i believe that
 
2006-07-25 05:02:34 PM  
Also, submitter is one gargantuan ass.
 
2006-07-25 05:02:36 PM  
twilson

Um, not sure what you meant, but I think you missed the point. If you want more supply (and with it, lower prices) you have to build more plants. In order to build more plants, a company has to be reasonably certain that they can make a profit on the power to recover the construction costs of those new plants. Since they will be financing those costs, the interest paid on that debt becomes crucial. Banks screw generators, so the only thing left to be done is to let economics sort it out. Hence, $400 per MWh power.
 
2006-07-25 05:03:35 PM  
alienated: Do you actually have something to say ?
Ha Ha guy is old- move one bra.
Better yet- come up with something intelligent as a retort.
Sheesh.


Read through the thread, captain grumpy. I responded plenty of times to other people. The thread was getting boring for a while there, so I tossed in a few pictures.

Nice of you to toss out a criticism even though you and I weren't even having a conversation. Work isn't busy enough for you today?
 
2006-07-25 05:05:05 PM  
quickdraw:
I don't think so. I was thinking about this and it really does make a difference in visibility at high speeds. Plus you can't leave your high beams on all the time or you blind oncoming traffic. Its fine to have no lights when you are going less than 30 mph. Have you ever driven on the I5 or the Ventura at night? You really do need those freeway lights to brake in time if there is a problem down the road.

From one hair-raising experience I had about 10 years ago:
You need lights to see stalled out idiots who stop their cars in the middle of the freeway. In my case, not only were their lights off, but they had no proper reflectors either.

Lucky for me, the guy in front of me took the hit and I was able to slow down in time. This was just after the ramp from the 118E to the 405S.

Whoever it was that answered the callbox when I reported the accident was an asshat too.

Me: "There's been a serious accident here at CB #XXXX just after the ramp on the SB 405. Someone just rear-ended a car stalled out on the freeway that had their lights out."
Them: "Any injuries?"
Me: "I didnt walk out there to look, but they slammed into the stopped vehicle doing at least 50."
Them: "Please give us your driver's license number or home address."
Me: "No, I'm not giving my personal info to you. I'm not involved in the accident, I'm just reporting a serious collision on the freeway here and someone's likely very hurt."
Them: "We need it in order to send out an ambulance"
Me: "Then it's your call, isn't it? 405 SB after the ramp, near this callbox. Goodbye."
 
2006-07-25 05:05:45 PM  
eraser8 and FredGarvin:

California has added only 2% of additional generating capacity in the last twenty years. Examine the facts!
 
2006-07-25 05:06:16 PM  
FredGarvin

Now, shhhhh, don't tell them that since 1899, California has had fifteen republican governors...and FOUR Democrats. The Governor's mansion hasn't been consistently occupied by Democrats since BEFORE THE CIVIL FARKING WAR.
 
2006-07-25 05:07:08 PM  
>> At least Conservatives know how to take a licking

yep.

With shrubs watergate like approval ratings you can see they they really know how to blow polical capital (such as in the failed shrub attempt at Social Security deform)
 
2006-07-25 05:11:12 PM  
>> In order to build more plants, a company has to be reasonably certain that they can make a profit

Yeah so don't let "a company" do it since they can't seem to handle the task without screwing it up.

Make the utilities public and remove the private profit. Thats an enourmous savings right there.

I get the impression that a lot of people never even thought of such a simple solution.
 
2006-07-25 05:11:41 PM  
SuperDuper28 writes: At least Conservatives know how to take a licking even if the source is total BS.

My sarcasm detector is in the shop -- so I apologize for having to ask: are you joking or are you just a complete dumbass?

Fox News sues Al Franken!

ec3.images-amazon.com
 
2006-07-25 05:12:46 PM  
Bobby2Names writes: California has added only 2% of additional generating capacity in the last twenty years.

The United States has only 2% of addition nuclear weapons destructive power in the last twenty years. What's your point?
 
2006-07-25 05:13:57 PM  
>> Now, shhhhh, don't tell them that since 1899, California has had fifteen republican governors...and FOUR Democrats

ZING ! ! !
 
2006-07-25 05:17:00 PM  
eraser8:

I suspect California's electricity demands have increased much faster than 2% over the last twenty years. In the 10 years previous to 1986, California added roughly 40% to its generation capacity. Aomething happened in between 1976 and 1986 to slow the addition of generation capacity. I'm betting the uneducated influence of liberal environmentalists. The facts support the claim of the submitter!
 
2006-07-25 05:19:07 PM  
twilson

Most utilities are public. Public or private doesn't make any difference anyways. You can either pony it up to pay for the power or pony it up to bailout your utility after they make poor financial decisions. One way or the other, it's out of your pocket.

Besides, FERC regulates what utilities can charge. They are guaranteed a slim profit, but if they want to widen their margin they have to file a rate case. Also, most utilities own a modest generation fleet, but power plants are too expensive for them to be able to serve their entire load from their own assets.

In related news, Californians use too much dang power (the Clifornia ISO predicted that load levels seen this week wowouldn't become a reality until 2011 at the earliest).
 
2006-07-25 05:19:16 PM  
meenkya

1./ i'll try your wine, if you try http://www.andrewrichwines.com/order.htm Gewurztraminer

2./ when can we go camping on your land? :)
 
2006-07-25 05:20:02 PM  
2006-07-25 04:35:13 PM paygun

anathama: The Internet is dead as disco without Cisco gear.

That's true, but it's all made in China.


Which gets shipped to Long Beach! ;)
 
2006-07-25 05:21:35 PM  
Bobby2Names writes: I suspect California's electricity demands have increased much faster than 2% over the last twenty years.

Again, I have to ask: what's your point? And how does your post in any way respond to mine?
 
2006-07-25 05:24:52 PM  
Submitter is a farking idiot.

This is indicative of the thought processs of the modern conservative. Try to make a point despite your facts are BS.
 
2006-07-25 05:30:26 PM  
Bobby2Names : California has added only 2% of additional generating capacity in the last twenty years. Examine the facts!

Fark has had this discusion before. Yes, Enron et alia played games with the energy net, and yes, California didn't build enough new grid capacity to keep up with the demand growth - which made it possible.

BTW - how many of the listed plants & windmill farms are actually on the grid? As I recall, Grey's admin had a webpage up touting all the new plants built during his reign but failed to note until you got to the fine-print that they were privately-built affairs dedicated to individual companies and hence not available to the public grid. You grid capacity likely needs some work when the big comanies can only open new plants if they BYOB their power requirements.....
 
2006-07-25 05:35:17 PM  
Well it has been in the uper 90's here in FL for the past week. Our temps. average above 90 from at least mid May till Oct. So why am I saying this? Well the good old terminator was trying to get people to turn their AC up to 78!!! What the hell do they normally keep it on? We keep ours on 78-79 all the time. That just shows me how self-centered those fruits and nuts are.
 
2006-07-25 05:35:43 PM  
anathama
2./ when can we go camping on your land? :)

Not now!
It's hot....LOL

Actually am planning a little visit around christmas time.
Buddy's gonna let me borrow his RV for a couple of weeks.

I would like to move there, but the woman is stubborn.
Don't really blame her, 45 miles to the nearest one-light town.

/I'll bring the Ice Wine since you like it sweet.
 
2006-07-25 05:40:11 PM  
grotto man

Please do not quote NewsMax as a legitimate source. Further down this ridiculous article they paint Enron as a corporate saint trying to save California and going bankrupt in the process. I suggest you watch some of the Enron documentaries. You might actually get some truthful information.

One hint to your biased source: Ann Coulter's mug in the corner. She's a pundit, not a legitimate source, and no legimate unbiased news source would stick a pundit's face right on the same page.
 
2006-07-25 05:40:19 PM  
nelbuts1 writes: That just shows me how self-centered those fruits and nuts are.

Californians aren't any more self-centered than other Americans. But you can't expect much sacrifice from the people that inflicted Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon on the country (and world).
 
2006-07-25 05:43:51 PM  
>> Public or private doesn't make any difference anyways.

Then why are the cons trying to deregulate them. Why are cons always talking about how privitization is a great thing if there is no difference.

Pretty big loophole in your argument.

But not as big as the idea that taking out private profit would not reduce costs. Thats just simple subtraction.
 
2006-07-25 05:47:44 PM  
mkfreeberg

I'm sorry...did you just link to Michelle Malkin?

I now feel justified in never acknowledging your existence. That is a shame, because perhaps you had something worthwhile to say - but then you tried to send me to a Malkin zone.

Good night and Good luck, Mr. Freakberg.
 
2006-07-25 05:48:38 PM  
>> Well the good old terminator was trying to get people to turn their AC up to 78!!! What the hell do they normally keep it on? We keep ours on 78-79 all the time. That just shows me how self-centered those fruits and nuts are.

Yeah I'm sure there is some kind of insanity that immediately grips you as soon as you cross the CA. state line. It forces you to turn your AC down to 70.

However crossing the FL. state line suddenly makes you a genius that would never turn their AC below 78.
 
2006-07-25 05:51:28 PM  
>> But you can't expect much sacrifice from the people that inflicted Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon on the country

Yeah the "retard" prez and the "forced to resign in disgrace" prez.
 
2006-07-25 05:53:42 PM  
2006-07-25 05:47:44 PM Lionel Mandrake [TotalFark]: I'm sorry...did you just link to Michelle Malkin? I now feel justified in never acknowledging your existence. That is a shame, because perhaps you had something worthwhile to say - but then you tried to send me to a Malkin zone. Good night and Good luck, Mr. Freakberg.

Yes, we all know you can't respond to the points she makes. No need to remind us.
 
2006-07-25 06:01:58 PM  
mkfreeberg writes: we all know you can't respond to the points she makes.

So the reason scholars don't respond to the lunatic ravings of Holocaust deniers is because they can't?

Oh please.

One doesn't seriously respond to the rantings of the insane because it merely encourages their insanity; it gives credit to their arguments -- when no credit is due. Malkin deserves no more attention than any other fringe nutjob.
 
2006-07-25 06:02:54 PM  
>> Yes, we all know you can't respond to the points she makes. No need to remind us.

Yeah Malkin is a genius. Almost as smart as that other beloved conservative known round the world as "The big fat idiot"
 
2006-07-25 06:03:41 PM  
Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Coleman.
 
2006-07-25 06:04:44 PM  
mkfreeberg: Yes, we all know you can't respond to the points she makes. No need to remind us.

Here's a response: 99.999% of liberals don't fly in private jets. And I'd be willing to venture that at least 95% of the people who do fly in private jets are Republicans.
 
2006-07-25 06:05:50 PM  
>> One doesn't seriously respond to the rantings of the insane because it merely encourages their insanity

As i said they are a waste of time. They are proud that they can't learn. It makes them real boring.
 
2006-07-25 06:09:59 PM  
mkfreeberg: It's just amazing no one, besides the right-wing crew we aren't supposed to be reading, ever nails them for it.

You do realize that Malkin's post consisted entirely of a NY Times article, don't you? Or were you suggesting that the NY Times is part of the "right-wing crew we aren't supposed to be reading"?
 
2006-07-25 06:19:47 PM  
twilson

Two things:

1) I'm on of the more liberal people on these boards, so your assumption that market savvy and conservatism go together is ill founded.

2) There is no such things as "private" profit. There is only profit or loss. So making things public or private has no benefit. Unless you mean, not-for-profit. In that case, let me ask you why anyone would invest billions in plants and infrastructure if there was no prospect of a reward.
 
2006-07-25 06:23:54 PM  
Need more renewable energy.
 
2006-07-25 06:24:35 PM  
nerfball: no, if BP delivers solar at a profit, idiots will scream and cry at the levels of those profits since the sunlight costs them nothing. "big solar" will be attacked for delivering what the market demands, but at the same time being so arrogant as to expect to earn a profit on their investments. liberal politicians will step in to start taxing solar power and the energy marketplace will be as screwed up then as it is now.

Dude, it's puff and pass, not smoke the whole damn thing yourself.
 
2006-07-25 06:54:03 PM  
QFT and everyone would do well to read it again:

grotto_man
"The real source of the blackouts was the phony deregulation, that didn't actually deregulate anything, but prevented CA utilities from owning their generating sources and forcing them to purchase through a quasi-public organization."
 
2006-07-25 06:54:04 PM  
eraser8

My sarcasm detector is in the shop -- so I apologize for having to ask: are you joking or are you just a complete dumbass?


Well, my self-absorbed asshat detector is in the shop too.Are you new to Fark or just a complete douche?Sorry for having to ask.

/could it be sarcasm?
//maybe,maybe not
///hard to tell with no sarcasm font
 
2006-07-25 07:17:07 PM  
The conservatives ousted Grey Davis on bogus power problems caused by Enron, why can't the libs dump on Arnie now?

fark that steroid taking bastard.
 
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